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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On June 29 2013 13:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket.
Most cops I've ever met are self righteous power tripping jackasses. There are some good ones but many of them use their position of power in abusive ways. I've never had a ticket and was raised that the police officer was a good man.
On June 29 2013 13:23 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:11 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:
[quote]
Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him? You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation. Yes most people would at least sound worried about it on the phone. And they would hang up the call or at least stop talking. You might hang up if you're trying to hide, but if you're planning on a confrontation there's zero reason to. If nothing else that person on the line could potentially be an ear witness (provided the phone doesn't die). Than why wouldn't you call 911? Were the call is recorded,and is a very credible source of a "witness"?
Again, why would you call someone you don't trust?
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On June 29 2013 13:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket.
in my experience (and discussions with my public defender friend), quite a few are fibbers (or to be more diplomatic, not so concerned about stretching the truth). but i would still call the police if there was a crime being committed. they always err on the side of fibbing to support a conviction. i would not generalize to the entire population in my day to day dealings though, but whenever they are on the stand, i question their veracity more than i would a regular witness.
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On June 29 2013 13:29 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:21 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:12 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:09 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them? Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right? I don't trust cops and I'm a normal, harmless white man with zero criminal record. Is there something wrong with that? You seem to be going down the "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide!" line of reasoning. No, that is not my reasoning. I would say that most normal harmless people(which Trayvon Martin supporters say he is) do trust the police if they felt they were in a life or death situation. Its fine to not trust the cops, but at what degree? Do you not trust them enough to the point you wouldn't call 911 if you felt your life was in danger? If I felt I could defuse the situation without them there's no reason to call. If I felt that leading a stranger in the darkness and rain to my house to call them would put my family in danger that is absolutely the last thing I'd ever do. Are you implying that the police never target "normal harmless" people? Someone, or their family, or their friends, might have had some undue run in with the law where they were treated unfairly. Someone might have been taught to not trust the police. There are plenty of logical reasons for a "normal harmless" person to not want to ever deal with the police.
So you would confront the man who you think is trying to harm you AFTER you already ran to get away from him? Sorry but in my personal opinion if you can't get past your paranoid beliefs of the cops when you life is in danger than I don't know what to say.
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On June 29 2013 13:32 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket. Most cops I've ever met are self righteous power tripping jackasses. There are some good ones but many of them use their position of power in abusive ways. I've never had a ticket and was raised that the police officer was a good man. Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:23 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:11 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him? You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation. Yes most people would at least sound worried about it on the phone. And they would hang up the call or at least stop talking. You might hang up if you're trying to hide, but if you're planning on a confrontation there's zero reason to. If nothing else that person on the line could potentially be an ear witness (provided the phone doesn't die). Than why wouldn't you call 911? Were the call is recorded,and is a very credible source of a "witness"? Again, why would you call someone you don't trust?
So not only do you not trust the cops you also don't trust 911 emergency dispatchers? Do you also not trust firemen if your house was on fire?
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On June 29 2013 13:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket.
Depends wildly where you are from. As a Florida resident, I can tell you that the quality of cop ranges from they ones you have encountered to the absolute scum of the earth who are actually on the wrong side of the law.
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On June 29 2013 13:37 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:29 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:21 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:12 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:09 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:
[quote]
If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know.
If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at.
On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them? Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right? I don't trust cops and I'm a normal, harmless white man with zero criminal record. Is there something wrong with that? You seem to be going down the "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide!" line of reasoning. No, that is not my reasoning. I would say that most normal harmless people(which Trayvon Martin supporters say he is) do trust the police if they felt they were in a life or death situation. Its fine to not trust the cops, but at what degree? Do you not trust them enough to the point you wouldn't call 911 if you felt your life was in danger? If I felt I could defuse the situation without them there's no reason to call. If I felt that leading a stranger in the darkness and rain to my house to call them would put my family in danger that is absolutely the last thing I'd ever do. Are you implying that the police never target "normal harmless" people? Someone, or their family, or their friends, might have had some undue run in with the law where they were treated unfairly. Someone might have been taught to not trust the police. There are plenty of logical reasons for a "normal harmless" person to not want to ever deal with the police. So you would confront the man who you think is trying to harm you AFTER you already ran to get away from him? Sorry but in my personal opinion if you can't get past your paranoid beliefs of the cops when you life is in danger than I don't know what to say.
So you would follow the guy you thought was a thug in the darkness instead of waiting for the police? Knowing absolutely no good could ever come from it? Leading to a confrontation and the death of a kid? You have absolutely no problem with that line of reasoning?
If I actually believed someone was following me I'd stop and let them pass me. If it turned into a confrontation I can take care of myself. Any possible harm that might ensue I'd rather happen to me than to my family.
Zimmerman used the exact same line of reasoning. When asked for his address he started rattling it off then stopped and said he didn't want to give it out because the guy might be listening, on 2 separate occasions. Maybe Trayvon started running for home and decided using the exact same thought process I don't want to lead this weirdo to my family. If that's a perfectly reasonable thought for George to have it's a perfectly reasonable thought for Trayvon to have.
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On June 29 2013 13:39 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:32 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket. Most cops I've ever met are self righteous power tripping jackasses. There are some good ones but many of them use their position of power in abusive ways. I've never had a ticket and was raised that the police officer was a good man. On June 29 2013 13:23 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:11 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:
[quote]
If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know.
If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at.
On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him? You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation. Yes most people would at least sound worried about it on the phone. And they would hang up the call or at least stop talking. You might hang up if you're trying to hide, but if you're planning on a confrontation there's zero reason to. If nothing else that person on the line could potentially be an ear witness (provided the phone doesn't die). Than why wouldn't you call 911? Were the call is recorded,and is a very credible source of a "witness"? Again, why would you call someone you don't trust? So not only do you not trust the cops you also don't trust 911 emergency dispatchers? Do you also not trust firemen if your house was on fire?
I'm not aware of firefighters or EMTs abusing their power to arrest, pull over, charge, assault, or kill people.
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On June 29 2013 13:46 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:39 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:32 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket. Most cops I've ever met are self righteous power tripping jackasses. There are some good ones but many of them use their position of power in abusive ways. I've never had a ticket and was raised that the police officer was a good man. On June 29 2013 13:23 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:11 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:
[quote]
If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him? You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation. Yes most people would at least sound worried about it on the phone. And they would hang up the call or at least stop talking. You might hang up if you're trying to hide, but if you're planning on a confrontation there's zero reason to. If nothing else that person on the line could potentially be an ear witness (provided the phone doesn't die). Than why wouldn't you call 911? Were the call is recorded,and is a very credible source of a "witness"? Again, why would you call someone you don't trust? So not only do you not trust the cops you also don't trust 911 emergency dispatchers? Do you also not trust firemen if your house was on fire? I'm not aware of firefighters or EMTs abusing their power to arrest, pull over, charge, assault, or kill people.
I'm not aware of emergency dispatchers doing any of those as well. The fact your call is recorded is ussually quite helpful in a criminal case. Unless you think the conspiracy goes deep enough that they would pretend you didn't even call 911. If you are on the phone to prove the guy said something, you don't call a friend.
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On June 29 2013 13:49 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:46 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:39 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:32 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket. Most cops I've ever met are self righteous power tripping jackasses. There are some good ones but many of them use their position of power in abusive ways. I've never had a ticket and was raised that the police officer was a good man. On June 29 2013 13:23 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:11 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:
[quote]
If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that.
If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not.
We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake.
Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him? You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation. Yes most people would at least sound worried about it on the phone. And they would hang up the call or at least stop talking. You might hang up if you're trying to hide, but if you're planning on a confrontation there's zero reason to. If nothing else that person on the line could potentially be an ear witness (provided the phone doesn't die). Than why wouldn't you call 911? Were the call is recorded,and is a very credible source of a "witness"? Again, why would you call someone you don't trust? So not only do you not trust the cops you also don't trust 911 emergency dispatchers? Do you also not trust firemen if your house was on fire? I'm not aware of firefighters or EMTs abusing their power to arrest, pull over, charge, assault, or kill people. I'm not aware of emergency dispatchers doing any of those as well. The fact your call is recorded is ussually quite helpful in a criminal case. Unless you think the conspiracy goes deep enough that they would pretend you didn't even call 911.
How does the dispatcher help you at all once the police officer arrives? At that point the cop is in charge of the situation and he could take the other guys word over yours. He could hold something against you purely because you're black based on nothing at all. It happens all the time. Great, the dispatcher recorded the call and now someone I trust just as little as Zimmerman is here, super!
I have zero reason to distrust an EMT or a Firefighter. Every one I've ever met has been an amazing person that actually helps people and considering they have no actual power like a police officer there is nothing for them to abuse. I've never heard a bad story about either group from anyone I've ever known.
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You are basically advocating Vigilatne justice. Forget the autorities, take the matters into your own hands. I can't imagine how else you would expect people to stop criminal activities. I hope you realize all the issues that brings and why it is illegal. Either way, you cannot project your beliefs into someone else. It's not common at all to be so averse to calling the police to report a crime.
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lol. thinkprogress..... keeping the hope alive.....
Witness Makes Key Admission That He Never Saw Trayvon Martin Throw A Punch At Zimmerman
On day five of George Zimmerman’s trial for the death of Trayvon Martin, a key witness who previously claimed to have seen Martin “throwing down blows” admitted he never saw an actual punch thrown. This admission from John Good could undermine Zimmerman’s claim he shot 17-year-old Martin in reasonable self-defense.
According to the original police report, Good claimed he had seen a black male pinning Zimmerman down “just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA [mixed-martial arts] style.” But on Friday, Good told jurors he “could not see” any punches thrown, only that there was “downward movement.” He also admitted he was not 100 percent sure who yelled “help,” but assumed it was Zimmerman. It is not the first time Good has changed his account of the night Martin died. Three weeks after the incident, Good told a special prosecutor he couldn’t truly tell who yelled for help “because it was so dark out on that sidewalk.”
The reliability of witness testimony has been a major focus for both the defense and state prosecution in the trial. Zimmerman’s defense attorneys have tried to highlight inconsistencies of another witness, 19-year-old Rachel Jeantel, who was on the phone with Martin moments before the shooting. Asked repeatedly by Zimmerman’s attorney Don West why she lied about her reason for not attending Martin’s wake, Jeantel admitted she did not want to see his body. “You. Got. To. Un. Der. Stand,” Jeantel said. “I’m the last person—you don’t know how I felt. You think I really want to go see the body after I just talked to him?”
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/28/2232681/witness-admission-zimmerman/?mobile=nc
some comments:
... I don't know what kind of Alternate Reality these Zimmerman supporters live in, but what I see at this trial and I've watched almost the entire thing, is NOTHING near what you guys are seeing. Zimmerman is going to be convicted easily.
Seems the only way to interpret what's happening in Zimmerman's favor is if you're just going to blame the "black guy" no matter what you hear --
I wonder if Zimmerman's injuries were self-inflicted, as he worried about getting charged with murder.
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On June 29 2013 14:00 SKC wrote:
You are basically advocating Vigilatne justice. Forget the autorities, take the matters into your own hands. I can't imagine how else you would expect people to stop criminal activities. I hope you realize all the issues that brings and why it is illegal. Either way, you cannot project your beliefs into someone else. It's not common at all to be so averse to calling the police to report a crime.
Uhhh, its VERY common to be adverse to calling the police. Maybe not in Brazil, I have no idea how shit flies there. But it's insanely common for people in America to have a huge distrust of the police.
Also you're fine with George dishing out Vigil Ante justice but not for Trayvon to maybe, have possibly, potentially have chosen it was wiser for him to confront Zimmerman than to lead a short, fat, bald stalker to the place his family resides? We'll never know exactly what happened and a confrontation could have been just a verbal altercation. Again, we'll never ever know because George decided to kill.
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On June 29 2013 14:09 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 14:00 SKC wrote:
You are basically advocating Vigilatne justice. Forget the autorities, take the matters into your own hands. I can't imagine how else you would expect people to stop criminal activities. I hope you realize all the issues that brings and why it is illegal. Either way, you cannot project your beliefs into someone else. It's not common at all to be so averse to calling the police to report a crime. Uhhh, its VERY common to be adverse to calling the police. Maybe not in Brazil, I have no idea how shit flies there. But it's insanely common for people in America to have a huge distrust of the police. Also you're fine with George dishing out Vigil Ante justice but not for Trayvon to maybe, have possibly, potentially have chosen it was wiser for him to confront Zimmerman than to lead a short, fat, bald stalker to the place his family resides? We'll never know exactly what happened and a confrontation could have been just a verbal altercation. Again, we'll never ever know because George decided to kill.
Not to the point of not wanting to call 911 if you think there is a serial killer after you, and you would rather confront him unarmed, because you believe the police will be more dangerous than him. I assure you, not to that extent.
Also, I`m not saying what George did wasn't wrong. I never did.
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On June 29 2013 13:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket. It's because people watch police brutality and think it's a bigger problem than it actually is, but in reality 99% of cops are great people.
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On June 29 2013 14:10 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 14:09 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 14:00 SKC wrote:
You are basically advocating Vigilatne justice. Forget the autorities, take the matters into your own hands. I can't imagine how else you would expect people to stop criminal activities. I hope you realize all the issues that brings and why it is illegal. Either way, you cannot project your beliefs into someone else. It's not common at all to be so averse to calling the police to report a crime. Uhhh, its VERY common to be adverse to calling the police. Maybe not in Brazil, I have no idea how shit flies there. But it's insanely common for people in America to have a huge distrust of the police. Also you're fine with George dishing out Vigil Ante justice but not for Trayvon to maybe, have possibly, potentially have chosen it was wiser for him to confront Zimmerman than to lead a short, fat, bald stalker to the place his family resides? We'll never know exactly what happened and a confrontation could have been just a verbal altercation. Again, we'll never ever know because George decided to kill. Not to the point of not wanting to call 911 if you think there is a serial killer after you, and you would rather confront him unarmed, because you believe the police will be more dangerous than him. I assure you, not to that extent.
I'm sorry if you cant understand why you wouldn't call the devil for help but that's just how it is. If you don't trust them they may as well not exist because they're never an option under any circumstance.
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On June 29 2013 13:45 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:37 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:29 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:21 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:12 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:09 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them? Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right? I don't trust cops and I'm a normal, harmless white man with zero criminal record. Is there something wrong with that? You seem to be going down the "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide!" line of reasoning. No, that is not my reasoning. I would say that most normal harmless people(which Trayvon Martin supporters say he is) do trust the police if they felt they were in a life or death situation. Its fine to not trust the cops, but at what degree? Do you not trust them enough to the point you wouldn't call 911 if you felt your life was in danger? If I felt I could defuse the situation without them there's no reason to call. If I felt that leading a stranger in the darkness and rain to my house to call them would put my family in danger that is absolutely the last thing I'd ever do. Are you implying that the police never target "normal harmless" people? Someone, or their family, or their friends, might have had some undue run in with the law where they were treated unfairly. Someone might have been taught to not trust the police. There are plenty of logical reasons for a "normal harmless" person to not want to ever deal with the police. So you would confront the man who you think is trying to harm you AFTER you already ran to get away from him? Sorry but in my personal opinion if you can't get past your paranoid beliefs of the cops when you life is in danger than I don't know what to say. So you would follow the guy you thought was a thug in the darkness instead of waiting for the police? Knowing absolutely no good could ever come from it? Leading to a confrontation and the death of a kid? You have absolutely no problem with that line of reasoning? If I actually believed someone was following me I'd stop and let them pass me. If it turned into a confrontation I can take care of myself. Any possible harm that might ensue I'd rather happen to me than to my family. Zimmerman used the exact same line of reasoning. When asked for his address he started rattling it off then stopped and said he didn't want to give it out because the guy might be listening, on 2 separate occasions. Maybe Trayvon started running for home and decided using the exact same thought process I don't want to lead this weirdo to my family. If that's a perfectly reasonable thought for George to have it's a perfectly reasonable thought for Trayvon to have.
I think it perfectly reasonable to find out which way the suspicious person ran in order to give the cops better directions, I don't believe he was chasing him.
And sure its possible to have that reasoning as Trayvon Martin. So I will agree that is it is a possible thought for Trayvon Martin, but I think it is highly unlikely it actually was. I think that because he didn't express that feeling while talking to his girlfriend on the phone, and why would he tell his girlfriend on the phone out load that he was close to his family member's home if he was concerned for their safety? I think it would be smart to agree to disagree on this particular issue.
I'm just curious what is your overall thoughts of this case?
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On June 29 2013 14:13 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 14:10 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 14:09 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 14:00 SKC wrote:
You are basically advocating Vigilatne justice. Forget the autorities, take the matters into your own hands. I can't imagine how else you would expect people to stop criminal activities. I hope you realize all the issues that brings and why it is illegal. Either way, you cannot project your beliefs into someone else. It's not common at all to be so averse to calling the police to report a crime. Uhhh, its VERY common to be adverse to calling the police. Maybe not in Brazil, I have no idea how shit flies there. But it's insanely common for people in America to have a huge distrust of the police. Also you're fine with George dishing out Vigil Ante justice but not for Trayvon to maybe, have possibly, potentially have chosen it was wiser for him to confront Zimmerman than to lead a short, fat, bald stalker to the place his family resides? We'll never know exactly what happened and a confrontation could have been just a verbal altercation. Again, we'll never ever know because George decided to kill. Not to the point of not wanting to call 911 if you think there is a serial killer after you, and you would rather confront him unarmed, because you believe the police will be more dangerous than him. I assure you, not to that extent. I'm sorry if you cant understand why you wouldn't call the devil for help but that's just how it is. If you don't trust them they may as well not exist because they're never an option under any circumstance.
Sounds extremely irrational, and paranoid to not call the police under any circumstance, and to equate them to the devil.
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On June 29 2013 14:18 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 14:13 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 14:10 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 14:09 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 14:00 SKC wrote:
You are basically advocating Vigilatne justice. Forget the autorities, take the matters into your own hands. I can't imagine how else you would expect people to stop criminal activities. I hope you realize all the issues that brings and why it is illegal. Either way, you cannot project your beliefs into someone else. It's not common at all to be so averse to calling the police to report a crime. Uhhh, its VERY common to be adverse to calling the police. Maybe not in Brazil, I have no idea how shit flies there. But it's insanely common for people in America to have a huge distrust of the police. Also you're fine with George dishing out Vigil Ante justice but not for Trayvon to maybe, have possibly, potentially have chosen it was wiser for him to confront Zimmerman than to lead a short, fat, bald stalker to the place his family resides? We'll never know exactly what happened and a confrontation could have been just a verbal altercation. Again, we'll never ever know because George decided to kill. Not to the point of not wanting to call 911 if you think there is a serial killer after you, and you would rather confront him unarmed, because you believe the police will be more dangerous than him. I assure you, not to that extent. I'm sorry if you cant understand why you wouldn't call the devil for help but that's just how it is. If you don't trust them they may as well not exist because they're never an option under any circumstance. Sounds extremely irrational, and paranoid to not call the police under any circumstance, and to equate them to the devil. He's probably basing his opinion on police based on the "police brutality" videos that pop up once in a while in Reddit. Police are servants, and 99% do a great job deserving of our gratitude.
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On June 29 2013 14:13 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:45 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:37 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:29 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:21 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:12 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:09 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:
[quote]
Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them? Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right? I don't trust cops and I'm a normal, harmless white man with zero criminal record. Is there something wrong with that? You seem to be going down the "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide!" line of reasoning. No, that is not my reasoning. I would say that most normal harmless people(which Trayvon Martin supporters say he is) do trust the police if they felt they were in a life or death situation. Its fine to not trust the cops, but at what degree? Do you not trust them enough to the point you wouldn't call 911 if you felt your life was in danger? If I felt I could defuse the situation without them there's no reason to call. If I felt that leading a stranger in the darkness and rain to my house to call them would put my family in danger that is absolutely the last thing I'd ever do. Are you implying that the police never target "normal harmless" people? Someone, or their family, or their friends, might have had some undue run in with the law where they were treated unfairly. Someone might have been taught to not trust the police. There are plenty of logical reasons for a "normal harmless" person to not want to ever deal with the police. So you would confront the man who you think is trying to harm you AFTER you already ran to get away from him? Sorry but in my personal opinion if you can't get past your paranoid beliefs of the cops when you life is in danger than I don't know what to say. So you would follow the guy you thought was a thug in the darkness instead of waiting for the police? Knowing absolutely no good could ever come from it? Leading to a confrontation and the death of a kid? You have absolutely no problem with that line of reasoning? If I actually believed someone was following me I'd stop and let them pass me. If it turned into a confrontation I can take care of myself. Any possible harm that might ensue I'd rather happen to me than to my family. Zimmerman used the exact same line of reasoning. When asked for his address he started rattling it off then stopped and said he didn't want to give it out because the guy might be listening, on 2 separate occasions. Maybe Trayvon started running for home and decided using the exact same thought process I don't want to lead this weirdo to my family. If that's a perfectly reasonable thought for George to have it's a perfectly reasonable thought for Trayvon to have. I think it perfectly reasonable to find out which way the suspicious person ran in order to give the cops better directions, I don't believe he was chasing him. And sure its possible to have that reasoning as Trayvon Martin. So I will agree that is it is a possible thought for Trayvon Martin, but I think it is highly unlikely it actually was. I think that because he didn't express that feeling while talking to his girlfriend on the phone, and why would he tell his girlfriend on the phone out load that he was close to his family member's home if he was concerned for their safety? I think it would be smart to agree to disagree on this particular issue. I'm just curious what is your overall thoughts of this case?
Telling someone over the phone you live in the area is a far cry from leading them with a trail of bread crumbs to your home. One is general one is specific.
I think George is a complete idiot for following a stranger in the dark and rain, ESPECIALLY one he thought was some sort of criminal. I believe if he didn't think those actions might lead to a confrontation he's an idiot that deserved to get roughed up. I believe that pulling a gun after in effect you started something with your stupid actions is a pussy move. Absolutely no where that night did his actions make a single bit of sense to me.
I don't think Trayvon was an angel, but most teenagers aren't. I think the whole "he has pics of weed!" shit is hilarious like that makes him Al Capone or something.
The whole situation was easily avoidable by Zimmerman just butting out and waiting for the cops. Literally none of this would have happened. All this because you think some kid might be responsible for some break ins, which is of course completely unfounded. Because some people lost some stuff that insurance would replace some kid had to die, that's a crying fucking shame.
Zimmerman should have known his actions could be interpreted in the wrong way even if for the sake of argument he had nothing but the purest intentions. He should have been aware that this might turn into a fight if this person he believes is a criminal takes what he's doing the wrong way.
I think the stand your ground law is a total fucking joke personally in that you can start shit and if it gets out of hand just go blast someone and it's cool, even if you started it. If you start something you better be willing to take the ass beating, that's how I was raised. I'd at least say George would be guilty of manslaughter but again, that assumes this asinine law doesn't exist. We'll see how it all pans out but at no point did Trayvon deserve to die, those wounds aren't fear of death wounds IMO.
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On June 29 2013 14:30 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 14:13 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:45 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:37 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:29 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:21 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:12 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:09 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them? Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right? I don't trust cops and I'm a normal, harmless white man with zero criminal record. Is there something wrong with that? You seem to be going down the "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide!" line of reasoning. No, that is not my reasoning. I would say that most normal harmless people(which Trayvon Martin supporters say he is) do trust the police if they felt they were in a life or death situation. Its fine to not trust the cops, but at what degree? Do you not trust them enough to the point you wouldn't call 911 if you felt your life was in danger? If I felt I could defuse the situation without them there's no reason to call. If I felt that leading a stranger in the darkness and rain to my house to call them would put my family in danger that is absolutely the last thing I'd ever do. Are you implying that the police never target "normal harmless" people? Someone, or their family, or their friends, might have had some undue run in with the law where they were treated unfairly. Someone might have been taught to not trust the police. There are plenty of logical reasons for a "normal harmless" person to not want to ever deal with the police. So you would confront the man who you think is trying to harm you AFTER you already ran to get away from him? Sorry but in my personal opinion if you can't get past your paranoid beliefs of the cops when you life is in danger than I don't know what to say. So you would follow the guy you thought was a thug in the darkness instead of waiting for the police? Knowing absolutely no good could ever come from it? Leading to a confrontation and the death of a kid? You have absolutely no problem with that line of reasoning? If I actually believed someone was following me I'd stop and let them pass me. If it turned into a confrontation I can take care of myself. Any possible harm that might ensue I'd rather happen to me than to my family. Zimmerman used the exact same line of reasoning. When asked for his address he started rattling it off then stopped and said he didn't want to give it out because the guy might be listening, on 2 separate occasions. Maybe Trayvon started running for home and decided using the exact same thought process I don't want to lead this weirdo to my family. If that's a perfectly reasonable thought for George to have it's a perfectly reasonable thought for Trayvon to have. I think it perfectly reasonable to find out which way the suspicious person ran in order to give the cops better directions, I don't believe he was chasing him. And sure its possible to have that reasoning as Trayvon Martin. So I will agree that is it is a possible thought for Trayvon Martin, but I think it is highly unlikely it actually was. I think that because he didn't express that feeling while talking to his girlfriend on the phone, and why would he tell his girlfriend on the phone out load that he was close to his family member's home if he was concerned for their safety? I think it would be smart to agree to disagree on this particular issue. I'm just curious what is your overall thoughts of this case? Telling someone over the phone you live in the area is a far cry from leading them with a trail of bread crumbs to your home. One is general one is specific. I think George is a complete idiot for following a stranger in the dark and rain, ESPECIALLY one he thought was some sort of criminal. I believe if he didn't think those actions might lead to a confrontation he's an idiot that deserved to get roughed up. I believe that pulling a gun after in effect you started something with your stupid actions is a pussy move. Absolutely no where that night did his actions make a single bit of sense to me. I don't think Trayvon was an angel, but most teenagers aren't. I think the whole "he has pics of weed!" shit is hilarious like that makes him Al Capone or something. The whole situation was easily avoidable by Zimmerman just butting out and waiting for the cops. Literally none of this would have happened. All this because you think some kid might be responsible for some break ins, which is of course completely unfounded. Because some people lost some stuff that insurance would replace some kid had to die, that's a crying fucking shame. Zimmerman should have known his actions could be interpreted in the wrong way even if for the sake of argument he had nothing but the purest intentions. He should have been aware that this might turn into a fight if this person he believes is a criminal takes what he's doing the wrong way. I think the stand your ground law is a total fucking joke personally in that you can start shit and if it gets out of hand just go blast someone and it's cool, even if you started it. If you start something you better be willing to take the ass beating, that's how I was raised. I'd at least say George would be guilty of manslaughter but again, that assumes this asinine law doesn't exist. We'll see how it all pans out but at no point did Trayvon deserve to die, those wounds aren't fear of death wounds IMO.
Afaik, this case has nothing to do with stand your ground law. I believe the defense waived the right to argue for that. It's regular self defense. And regular self defense seems very much applicable to this case, considering what the prosecution can prove.
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EPT
