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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On June 29 2013 12:38 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:24 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:11 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 10:11 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 08:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
Punk ass black kid with reputation for drugs, gold teeth, suspensions and physical assaults gets his brains blown out for assaulting the wrong guy and the world cries the race card. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
User was temp banned for this post. Zimmerman is probably not guilty of anything but being stupid and human — kind of like this poster. Zimmerman stalked and treated a teenager like a criminal because he was black, and tragedy and calamity ensued. But yeah, race had a lot to do with this situation even happening, which is why people are invested in it. + Show Spoiler +Brown Eye Blue Eye experiment I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. I used to live in a bad neighborhood, and I remember a guy was following me in his car late at night. I was getting a bad vibe but I didn't know if I was being paranoid — like, maybe he just need directions. I stopped walking, and he rolled down his window and asked me if I wanted to get in. Grrrrrrroooooooooooossssss. In retrospect I should have got off the sidewalk and tried to lose him, but hey — he looked like Wilford Brimley? How dangerous can a creepy old white man be, right? I know you can't prove that race was a factor in Zimmerman's case, but who are we kidding? I'm honest enough with myself to admit if it was a young black man following me in his car, I probably would have ran and not stopped at all. Whats leads you to believe if in fact you do, that Zimmerman purposely signaled out Trayvon because he was black and only because he was black? I say to the people who accuse Zimmerman of cold blood racial murder, why in the world would he call 911? Why would he stay around after the shooting? Why would he not just shoot Trayvon right away? Oh, I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of racially motivated murder. I think Zimmerman is guilty of stupidity, which was probably racially motivated. I can't prove the latter, though.
I'm just curious, and would like to know your reasoning as to why you think it was probably racially motivated.
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On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 10:11 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 08:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
Punk ass black kid with reputation for drugs, gold teeth, suspensions and physical assaults gets his brains blown out for assaulting the wrong guy and the world cries the race card. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
User was temp banned for this post. Zimmerman is probably not guilty of anything but being stupid and human — kind of like this poster. Zimmerman stalked and treated a teenager like a criminal because he was black, and tragedy and calamity ensued. But yeah, race had a lot to do with this situation even happening, which is why people are invested in it. + Show Spoiler + I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger.
If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know.
If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at.
On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move.
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On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 10:11 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 08:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
Punk ass black kid with reputation for drugs, gold teeth, suspensions and physical assaults gets his brains blown out for assaulting the wrong guy and the world cries the race card. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
User was temp banned for this post. Zimmerman is probably not guilty of anything but being stupid and human — kind of like this poster. Zimmerman stalked and treated a teenager like a criminal because he was black, and tragedy and calamity ensued. But yeah, race had a lot to do with this situation even happening, which is why people are invested in it. + Show Spoiler + I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move.
If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense.
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[/QUOTE]
George Zimmerman breaks the law, he's just an average citizen that did some dumb shit when he was young.
Trayvon Martin breaks the law, he's a gold teeth wearing thug 'dipshit'.
Subconscious racism at it's finest.
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On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 10:11 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 08:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
Punk ass black kid with reputation for drugs, gold teeth, suspensions and physical assaults gets his brains blown out for assaulting the wrong guy and the world cries the race card. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
User was temp banned for this post. Zimmerman is probably not guilty of anything but being stupid and human — kind of like this poster. Zimmerman stalked and treated a teenager like a criminal because he was black, and tragedy and calamity ensued. But yeah, race had a lot to do with this situation even happening, which is why people are invested in it. + Show Spoiler + I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move.
Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police?
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On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 10:11 Defacer wrote:[quote] Zimmerman is probably not guilty of anything but being stupid and human — kind of like this poster. Zimmerman stalked and treated a teenager like a criminal because he was black, and tragedy and calamity ensued. But yeah, race had a lot to do with this situation even happening, which is why people are invested in it. + Show Spoiler + I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense.
If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that.
If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not.
We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake.
Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option.
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On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option.
You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him?
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On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 10:11 Defacer wrote:[quote] Zimmerman is probably not guilty of anything but being stupid and human — kind of like this poster. Zimmerman stalked and treated a teenager like a criminal because he was black, and tragedy and calamity ensued. But yeah, race had a lot to do with this situation even happening, which is why people are invested in it. + Show Spoiler + I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police?
Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching.
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On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option.
actually, we do have a good idea. the friend testified about it. he thought zimmerman was a creepy ass cracker and then asked him why he was following him. he never said he was afraid of zimmerman; he never asked her to call the police or asked her to get off the phone so he could call the police. i find it odd you guys are creating weird scenarios when there is at least some evidence of trayvon's state of mind before the altercation. scared is not high on the list; indeed, it shouldnt even be on the list.
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On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:On June 29 2013 10:33 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
I find it hard to believe that a person with the intent of stalking another would call 911 to report suspicious activity. Stalkers don't normally call 911 while they are stalking. Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon? Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react. Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight. The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching.
Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops?
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On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:
[quote]
Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon?
Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react.
Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight.
The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him?
You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation.
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On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:34 Defacer wrote:
[quote]
Didn't the 911 operator instruct George Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon?
Maybe 'stalking' is the wrong word. But Zimmerman did something dumb. You can test this going out tonight, and silently follow a woman or black kid or anyone else for ten minutes on the street and see how they react.
Obviously I think Zimmerman didn't deserve to get attacked for what he did, but ... yeah. I get it. I've been followed by creepy old dudes when I was a younger — and my natural reaction was to ball up my keys in my fist and get ready to fight.
The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him. Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops?
If he didn't trust them why would he call them?
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On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him.
Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them?
Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right?
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On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:On June 29 2013 11:40 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
The 911 operator did not, and can not give direct orders. Maybe he was a bit over zealous in his intent to find out which way Trayvon Martin went, but just as you said even if he was directly following him that doesn't give Trayvon the ok to attack him.
Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon. And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him? You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation.
Yes most people would at least sound worried about it on the phone. And they would hang up the call or at least stop talking.
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On June 29 2013 13:09 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:
[quote]
Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon.
And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them? Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right?
I don't trust cops and I'm a normal, harmless white man with zero criminal record. Is there something wrong with that?
You seem to be going down the "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide!" line of reasoning.
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On June 29 2013 13:11 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 11:47 Esk23 wrote:
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Zimmerman allegedly "followed" Trayvon Martin. We don't know for sure. Either Zimmerman did follow him (which there is no evidence to support this other than the witness testimony of Travyon's friend which is shakey at best) or Zimmerman got out of his car to get an address for police like he said he did when he was confronted and assaulted by Trayvon.
And as to the operator intructors, the operator himself testified they can't and don't give orders because then they are liable as to what happens. So it's actually their policy to not give orders. He said he suggested Zimmerman that he didn't need to do that. To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him? You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation. Yes most people would at least sound worried about it on the phone. And they would hang up the call or at least stop talking.
You might hang up if you're trying to hide, but if you're planning on a confrontation there's zero reason to. If nothing else that person on the line could potentially be an ear witness (provided the phone doesn't die).
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On June 29 2013 13:12 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:09 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them? Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right? I don't trust cops and I'm a normal, harmless white man with zero criminal record. Is there something wrong with that? You seem to be going down the "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide!" line of reasoning.
No, that is not my reasoning. I would say that most normal harmless people(which Trayvon Martin supporters say he is) do trust the police if they felt they were in a life or death situation. Its fine to not trust the cops, but at what degree? Do you not trust them enough to the point you wouldn't call 911 if you felt your life was in danger?
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On June 29 2013 13:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:11 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:02 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:51 SKC wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 11:55 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
To the 911 operator, yes that's why I said that, because of his testimony of saying they don't give orders. I personally believe Zimmerman was following Trayvon but he was not directly chasing him. In my mind he was moving around the area to get a better idea where he ran to. My own question I have is if Trayvon felt that this creepy ass cracker was a rapist or some type of threat, I wonder why he didn't continue to run and keep his distance, and get to his family members house. Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. If you think there's a chance the guy may start shooting up your house you think it's better to confront him? If you are really worried about him being so dangerous, trying to run away and lose him makes more sense. If you believe you can resolve the situation yourself without putting your family in danger than that's obviously the best choice if you think the guy has some sort of evil intentions. When you follow someone at night absolutely not a single good thing can come from that. If you choose to run you don't know how far you'll have to run to lose the person. If you do believe you lost them there's no way of knowing if they're still in the area watching you or not. We'll never know what Trayvon was thinking, maybe he thought Zimmerman was some sort of rapist, maybe he thought he was a gang member, maybe he thought he was a serial killer, maybe he just thought he was some creeper, we'll never know. Whatever was going on in his head he might have seen defusing the situation 1 on 1 was the safest course of action for his families sake. Put in the same situation I'd have done the same and I'm sure a sizable percentage of people would as well. Especially if you believe that the police are not an option. You really think he would be calmly talking with a friend on his cellphone, calling him racist terms, if he actually thought it was a serial killer trying to kill him? You have no idea what he was thinking and we never will because he was murdered that night. He doesn't get to tell us what was going through his mind. If I was on the phone and I believed someone was following me am I going to start freaking out on the phone? I mean what do you expect him to do? Talk to the person on the line, say some fucker is following me, try and get amped up because it's do or die time. You need to defuse this situation. Yes most people would at least sound worried about it on the phone. And they would hang up the call or at least stop talking. You might hang up if you're trying to hide, but if you're planning on a confrontation there's zero reason to. If nothing else that person on the line could potentially be an ear witness (provided the phone doesn't die).
Than why wouldn't you call 911? Were the call is recorded,and is a very credible source of a "witness"?
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Korea (South)11591 Posts
I don't understand why people don't trust cops? Every single cop I have ever met has been an amazing person. Very friendly and helpful.
This distrust for the police just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming people hate them for giving you a speeding ticket.
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On June 29 2013 13:21 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 13:12 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:09 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:08 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 13:07 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 13:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:57 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:47 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 29 2013 12:40 Zenocide wrote:On June 29 2013 12:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:
[quote]
Zimmerman in multiple 911 calls stated he didn't want to give his home address because he didn't want the person he was calling on to hear it and know where he lived. It stands to reason Trayvon not knowing who was following him also didn't want to lead this guy to where he was going either. There aren't many options at that point you either run for how knows who long to ditch the person or you confront them in some regard. Leading them to your family is not an option. Well his girlfriend said that he almost at his family members house, that indicates to me that logical option to chose would be to go to your family members house lock the door and call the police if he felt his life was in danger. If you don't know who is following you or what their intent is that might not be the best option. Once you get inside the person might bail, but if you believe he's up to no good he could be back because he knows where you live. If the person means you some immediate harm they could just start shooting up your house for all you know. If Zimmerman refused to let the police know where he lived why is it unreasonable that Trayvon wouldn't want to let some guy stalking him know where he lived? If I'm out walking late at night and I believe someone is following me I'm stopping to let them get passed me or starting a confrontation, I'm not letting them know where I live at. On top of that, lets not kid ourselves, in general the black population isn't exactly in love with the police so that probably wasn't going to be the first move. Your last sentence you are generalizing how black people feel about cops, what do you base that opinion on? Why would he be talking on the phone to his girlfriend, and making noise if he didn't want the man following him to find out where he was? Also why call his girlfriend instead of the police? Generally speaking yes, its a pretty widely regarded fact that people in general don't love cops, especially minority populations. Minorities are disproportionately locked up, more likely to have higher charges or sentences dropped on them for an offense, disproportionately pulled over. Its common for minorities to not cooperate with police in investigations due to distrust along with a sense of repercussions from snitching. Once again I'll ask you why would he call his girlfriend in such a dire situation instead of the cops? If he didn't trust them why would he call them? Surely a normal harmless kid would trust the police, and call the police if he felt his life was in danger right? I don't trust cops and I'm a normal, harmless white man with zero criminal record. Is there something wrong with that? You seem to be going down the "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide!" line of reasoning. No, that is not my reasoning. I would say that most normal harmless people(which Trayvon Martin supporters say he is) do trust the police if they felt they were in a life or death situation. Its fine to not trust the cops, but at what degree? Do you not trust them enough to the point you wouldn't call 911 if you felt your life was in danger?
If I felt I could defuse the situation without them there's no reason to call. If I felt that leading a stranger in the darkness and rain to my house to call them would put my family in danger that is absolutely the last thing I'd ever do.
Are you implying that the police never target "normal harmless" people? Someone, or their family, or their friends, might have had some undue run in with the law where they were treated unfairly. Someone might have been taught to not trust the police. There are plenty of logical reasons for a "normal harmless" person to not want to ever deal with the police.
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EPT
