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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 163

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 14:11:00
June 27 2013 14:09 GMT
#3241
I only understand something about axing. >.<

edit: Sir.
dotHead
Profile Joined October 2010
United States233 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 14:14:03
June 27 2013 14:11 GMT
#3242
Why does he keep saying it "A little get off, get off".. Is that a direct quote of what she supposedly said? I want to hear him quote her saying Ax.

Sir
Aint got time to bleed
soon.Cloak
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States983 Posts
June 27 2013 14:12 GMT
#3243
Ah, now he's just playing with her. She didn't care about the interview, she lied, she didn't potentially say everything she knew, we got it.
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 14:14:34
June 27 2013 14:13 GMT
#3244
This retarded girl is going to be the reason the prosecution loses this case.

It's like cross examining a fucking sloth. Hello, sloth, did you or did you not hang out in a tree yesterday? "Youuu alreadyy ax me i put a rush on the treeeee."
3 Hatch Before Cool
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 27 2013 14:14 GMT
#3245
Is it odd for the Judge to respond "No" when asked if the attorneys can approach ?
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 27 2013 14:14 GMT
#3246
On June 27 2013 23:13 -Kaiser- wrote:
This retarded girl is going to be the reason the prosecution loses this case.


The prosecution not having a case will be the reason the prosecution loses this case.
Klipsys
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1533 Posts
June 27 2013 14:15 GMT
#3247
cracker isn't a racist term because no one would ever get offended by being called a snack food
Hudson Valley Progamer
dotHead
Profile Joined October 2010
United States233 Posts
June 27 2013 14:16 GMT
#3248
On June 27 2013 23:15 Klipsys wrote:
cracker isn't a racist term because no one would ever get offended by being called a snack food

And fag isn't offensive because it's a bundle of sticks.

Sir
Aint got time to bleed
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2013 14:16 GMT
#3249
On June 27 2013 23:14 Kaitlin wrote:
Is it odd for the Judge to respond "No" when asked if the attorneys can approach ?

Not really. Crotchety judges who think they know everything often refuse side bars.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2013 14:20 GMT
#3250
Woah, I some how missed this:

+ Show Spoiler +
A teenage friend of Trayvon Martin was forced to admit today in the George Zimmerman murder trial that she did not write a letter that was sent to Martin's mother describing what she allegedly heard on a phone call with Martin moments before he was shot.

In a painfully embarassing moment, Rachel Jeantel was asked to read the letter out loud in court.

"Are you able to read that at all?" defense attorney Don West asked.

Jeantel, head bowed, eyes averted whispered into the court microphone, "Some but not all. I don't read cursive."

It sent a hush through the packed courtroom.

Jeantel, 19, was unable to read any of the letter save for her name.


Source.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 27 2013 14:20 GMT
#3251
On June 27 2013 23:04 jeremycafe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 23:00 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On June 27 2013 22:54 jeremycafe wrote:
On June 27 2013 22:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On June 27 2013 22:03 jeremycafe wrote:
On June 27 2013 22:00 trips wrote:
Im not screaming for help if i have a gun on me.My concentration would be focused on pulling it out and shooting. and that's sort of what happened.

If i was travon and saw the gun i would have made the same screaming noise he did. IMO


You are making the assumption that Zimmerman WANTED to shoot someone. You can't say how you would react in that situation not being in it. Fear causes people to act differently.

The biggest thing you are assuming is that Zimmerman had easy access to the gun. You have no way of knowing if his arms were being pinned down or not. No evidence has been proven either way. You can assume it was either of them.


Witness said bigger guy was on top--zman had 20lbs-30lbs over travyon.

Witness said Travyon said "get off me" before cellphone cut out.

Other witness said that the voice sounded young--Travyon was half a generation younger than Zman.

The only reason to assume not to have the assumptions Trips has is to believe these testimonies are false.

You'd also have to ignore that,

There was no blood on the concrete (suggesting Zman wasn't actually being brutalized)
Travyon's arms weren't splayed out (proving that Zman didn't actually search Trayvon for weapons)
Left right movement from one witness combined with Trayvon's "get off me" from another witness

So if you ignore the evidence presented, then you can say Trips is only making assumptions; otherwise, Trips is only following the evidence at hand.



Witness said bigger guy was on top--zman had 20lbs-30lbs over travyon.
The same person also claimed she only saw shadows and went back inside. She also claimed she didn't know who was bigger at the time. She also claimed based on images of Trayvon 11-13 years old is what was used to determine who was who she saw in SHADOWS.


Witness said Travyon said "get off me" before cellphone cut out.
The same witness told a different story the first month. As time goes on, the story changes to this. Last time I checked memory is more accurate closer to when it happens, not as months go on. She admitted to getting involved because of race. She has repeatedly told lies, so you can easily believe her testimony to be false.


Other witness said that the voice sounded young--Travyon was half a generation younger than Zman.
The voice argument needs to go away. A grown man can sound like a child without a problem. A younger man going through puberty can have a grown mans voice with no problem. No single witness can truely know who was screaming as they could not see for themselves. They have all made assumptions based on the news after the fact. When the father himself said it wasn't trayvon after hearing the voice twice, I would believe that before someone who doesnt know him.


The only reason to assume not to have the assumptions Trips has is to believe these testimonies are false.
The defense has shown with EVERY witness so far that they are filling in gaps of what happened. They did not see everything, but fill in the gap with what they think happened. You can't believe any of it at that point because you don't know what is real and what was made up in their head.


You'd also have to ignore that,

There was no blood on the concrete (suggesting Zman wasn't actually being brutalized)
How does this matter? It was raining, we saw the cuts on the back of his head. We know how much damage he took based on the cuts. It was not severe, but it shows he was taking a beating. I have seen MMA fighters come out losing with less damage.

Travyon's arms weren't splayed out (proving that Zman didn't actually search Trayvon for weapons)
Not sure of the importance on this as it was after the fact. Does show he as well is changing events.

Left right movement from one witness combined with Trayvon's "get off me" from another witness
Again, both came from witnesses who changed stories and altered events.

So if you ignore the evidence presented, then you can say Trips is only making assumptions; otherwise, Trips is only following the evidence at hand.

There has been NO evidence. Only false statements of people who didn't actually see what happened.


If showing some level of inconsistency means that the evidence presented is false, then Zimmerman showing inconsistency means that his testimony is false.

If Zimmerman's lies are okay within reason, then the witness' are okay with reason. You don't get to say the witness' inconsistency makes them invalid while also saying that Zimmerman's inconsistency can be ignored. Zimmerman couldn't even remember what happened a few seconds after performing the crime, can we really trust his recollections at all?


Zimmerman has not taken the stand. No, it can't be ignored. But this isn't a guilty until proven innocent case. Unless they can know for sure the story they are telling is true, which they are filled with false statements, there is reasonable doubt they are telling the true story or actually know what happened. They have to prove intent to murder. Nothing has.


I'm talking about evidence as presented.

All testimony's, including Zimmerman's, shows levels on inconsistency. Ignoring Zimmerman's inconsistency but exaggerating the witnesses' testimonies is dishonest.

Trip found their statements to be convincing enough and hence he sees those facts and finds Zimmerman guilty, you say they're liars not to be trusted and hence you believe Zimmerman is innocent just. You're choosing to ignore witness testimony that goes against your preconceived opinion.

Some people believe that no blood on the ground, no DNA marks on Travyon, and Zimmerman not actually searching for a gun proves that Zimmerman was not actually scared for his life.

The witness testimonies support that claim.

You wanting to say that the lack of DNA marks, the lack of blood marks, and Zimmerman's false statements being irrelevant is you ignoring evidence.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 27 2013 14:24 GMT
#3252
On June 27 2013 23:16 dotHead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 23:15 Klipsys wrote:
cracker isn't a racist term because no one would ever get offended by being called a snack food

And fag isn't offensive because it's a bundle of sticks.

Sir


Most american's use the phrase Gypped all the time when they feel cheated not realizing it's a racial slur against gypsies. They don't say it maliciously, nor was Trayvon using the term cracker maliciously.

However, they're both "racist" terms, but cracker holds a lot less historical burden on it than either "nigger" or "faggot."
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 14:26:52
June 27 2013 14:26 GMT
#3253
On June 27 2013 23:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 23:16 dotHead wrote:
On June 27 2013 23:15 Klipsys wrote:
cracker isn't a racist term because no one would ever get offended by being called a snack food

And fag isn't offensive because it's a bundle of sticks.

Sir


Most american's use the phrase Gypped all the time when they feel cheated not realizing it's a racial slur against gypsies. They don't say it maliciously, nor was Trayvon using the term cracker maliciously.

However, they're both "racist" terms, but cracker holds a lot less historical burden on it than either "nigger" or "faggot."


Well, cracker is a term of disrespect / disdain for a white person.
las91
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States5080 Posts
June 27 2013 14:27 GMT
#3254
Question question question "yes Sir". Man I'm not sure if this is the best witness to call but I guess if she really did see anything that happened it's relevant. As for the racist terms, it's a bit ridiculous to equate cracker with any other slur as it's far and away less used in most areas of the States than "nigger" or "faggot/fag".
In Inca we trust
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 27 2013 14:33 GMT
#3255
It's not a matter of best witness, but she's the "only" witness who can provide the evidence the prosecution is counting on. In fact, one might argue, the evidence is manufactured, such as "Get off, get off". Having said that, she may have done more harm than good by inserting the cracker / nigger stuff.
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
June 27 2013 14:35 GMT
#3256
On June 27 2013 23:20 xDaunt wrote:
Woah, I some how missed this:

+ Show Spoiler +
A teenage friend of Trayvon Martin was forced to admit today in the George Zimmerman murder trial that she did not write a letter that was sent to Martin's mother describing what she allegedly heard on a phone call with Martin moments before he was shot.

In a painfully embarassing moment, Rachel Jeantel was asked to read the letter out loud in court.

"Are you able to read that at all?" defense attorney Don West asked.

Jeantel, head bowed, eyes averted whispered into the court microphone, "Some but not all. I don't read cursive."

It sent a hush through the packed courtroom.

Jeantel, 19, was unable to read any of the letter save for her name.


Source.



that's hilarious...
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 27 2013 14:36 GMT
#3257
On June 27 2013 23:26 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 23:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On June 27 2013 23:16 dotHead wrote:
On June 27 2013 23:15 Klipsys wrote:
cracker isn't a racist term because no one would ever get offended by being called a snack food

And fag isn't offensive because it's a bundle of sticks.

Sir


Most american's use the phrase Gypped all the time when they feel cheated not realizing it's a racial slur against gypsies. They don't say it maliciously, nor was Trayvon using the term cracker maliciously.

However, they're both "racist" terms, but cracker holds a lot less historical burden on it than either "nigger" or "faggot."


Well, cracker is a term of disrespect / disdain for a white person.


Yes... which is why I said 'they're both "racist" terms."

The difference is historical context. Because whites were not a brutalized people in the US with a historical history of being oppressed specifically for being white, then being accused of having white skin does not have same type of negative connotation that accusing someone of having black skin has.

It is more a backlash and an attempt to create an equalized state wherein blacks who feel oppressed attempt to balance the power dynamics by treating whites equally to how they perceived they are being treated. So while it is racist, it's also about as much a slur as saying "all Nazis are evil," which, even though its a racial slur, does not feel as hateful as saying all "Africans are evil" or "all Jews are evil."

Historical context is the framework that reveals why some racist slurs are worse than others.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 27 2013 14:38 GMT
#3258
On June 27 2013 23:33 Kaitlin wrote:
It's not a matter of best witness, but she's the "only" witness who can provide the evidence the prosecution is counting on. In fact, one might argue, the evidence is manufactured, such as "Get off, get off". Having said that, she may have done more harm than good by inserting the cracker / nigger stuff.


I honestly believe her, but I feel that the culture difference between her and the Jury will bring out their racial biases too much for her testimony to help the state in the level they want it to
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 27 2013 14:51 GMT
#3259
On June 27 2013 23:38 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 23:33 Kaitlin wrote:
It's not a matter of best witness, but she's the "only" witness who can provide the evidence the prosecution is counting on. In fact, one might argue, the evidence is manufactured, such as "Get off, get off". Having said that, she may have done more harm than good by inserting the cracker / nigger stuff.


I honestly believe her, but I feel that the culture difference between her and the Jury will bring out their racial biases too much for her testimony to help the state in the level they want it to


Which part of her testimony do you believe ? What she is saying today or what she said during the previous deposition / interviews ?
PJFrylar
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States350 Posts
June 27 2013 14:51 GMT
#3260
I'm not sure I believe the "get off, get off" part though. I don't remember hearing about it until the trial. Previously she had said that Trayvon/the headset fell and the phone hung up, such as in the letter to Travyon's mother (which you can hear read allowed in court in the video from xDaunt's source).
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