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On March 20 2012 04:15 FranzP wrote:
Lol guys don't start to throw shit at each other. We know we can be assholes when it comes to politics. Let's stay classy and civil, we will only precipitate the downfall (into closeness) of the thread if we don't.
If you think Koorb is wrong, just point them out and link to an 'unbiased' (not the figaro or l'humanité) source.
Stay classy, and tell me an unbiased source
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On March 20 2012 03:46 Geiko wrote:
This is OP is misguiding. You're not even trying to hide your political preference even though you present this to be some sort of unbiased account of the French elections. The information given about Sarkozy is highly selective (you only focus on the negative aspects) and sometimes even downright false.
Not like he's really nice with Hollande either...
I like this op, it's hard to be 100% objective in those matters anyway.
Personnally :
Sarkozy's stance on immigration and on societal issues makes him a big no no. Overall his 5 years in power were not that bad though. That being said for someone who wanted a non corrupted governement, his record is not exactly stellar. Well, Socialist probably won't do much better if they're elected.
Hollande won't do anything, I'm fine with this. I won't talk about his policy, because he won't do anything he says, but he used to be one of the funniest guy in French politics. Then he decided he wanted to become President. Sad story.
Mélanchon suffers from mild paranoïa and aggressiveness. I guess the good counterpart he's that he says what he thinks and does not lie to on purpose (cough cough Mr Sarkozy and Hollande). The disputes they have with Le Pen are nothing short of hilarious, as they funnily enough agree on more thing than they're willing to admit. Le Pen is not much different from her father, a bit more consensual and a worse orators (say what you will about Jean-Marie Le Pen, but when he came to delivering a speech he was unparalelled, alas).
Bayrou is persuaded to be the prophet that will save France from chaos. In 2007, he was the Messiah, and ROyal was Virgin Marie. Apart from that he takes a classic centrist position which has never really be in power in France since 1789, so I wish him good luck.
A fantastic election incoming all in all. The number of trotskist candidates will always make me laugh too. Oh yeah, and we have the return of Jacques Cheminade ! Can't wait to cast my vote, and listen to weeks of passionating debate on the quantity of halal meat sold in Paris.
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Good read so far.
From my point of view I can tell that the bonding between Merkel and Sarkozy is not popular.
The opposition has a strong opinion against the support Merkel shows Sarkozy though I need to read more on that.
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Ca fesait un petit moment que je cherchai un OP pour recapitulé un peu les enjeux, candidats de cette campagne, thx 
edit: have been a while since i have search for an OP making a post about impact and candidat of this election , merci
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On March 20 2012 04:30 Derity wrote:
Good read so far.
From my point of view I can tell that the bonding between Merkel and Sarkozy is not popular.
The opposition has a strong opinion against the support Merkel shows Sarkozy though I need to read more on that.
Yes, Germany's economic righteoussness in face of the econmic crisis is quite unpopular in France.
On March 20 2012 04:32 Rodiel3 wrote:Ca fesait un petit moment que je cherchai un OP pour recapitulé un peu les enjeux, candidats de cette campagne, thx
This is an english speaking website =)
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On March 20 2012 04:20 yaxv wrote:Hi Koorb, really nice thread, gives me a little insight on French policy (it's weird in these Internet days that I could easily have found tonnes of info online, but sometimes your best sources are those website you visit frequently). Anyway, what are the French people's opinions on "France taking a greater role in the European Union's affairs"? In Germany we've seen people demonstrating against the recent economic support to Greece - do French people make a correlation between "greater role in the EU" and "giving more money to other European countries"?
This line of thinking isn't as prevalent in France, mainly because our economy is worse off than Germany. Another thing to take into account is that France also recieves a lot of money from Europe in terms of agricultural subsides, so it's giving and taking. Of course, like everywhere, it's the EU's fault when things go wrong.
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France266 Posts
On March 20 2012 02:41 FranzP wrote:
Great post Koorb !
Maybe you can post a link to voxe.org in the OP, because even though it's not in english it's one of the most comprehensive knowledge bas to compare programs.
Thanks, didn't know about this website yet!
On March 20 2012 03:46 Geiko wrote:
This is OP is misguiding. You're not even trying to hide your political preference even though you present this to be some sort of unbiased account of the French elections. The information given about Sarkozy is highly selective (you only focus on the negative aspects) and sometimes even downright false.
You would be surprised if you knew what my political preference is ;-)
Though, I don't claim that the OP is exhaustive or perfect or whatever, so if you think that it miss relevant informations, don't hesitate to point them out, I'll be more than happy to add them to the OP.
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On March 20 2012 03:46 Geiko wrote:
This is OP is misguiding. You're not even trying to hide your political preference even though you present this to be some sort of unbiased account of the French elections. The information given about Sarkozy is highly selective (you only focus on the negative aspects) and sometimes even downright false.
then what positive aspects did he forget ? You are clearly the biased one. The op is critical on ALL candidates. My previous posts were biased :p His is not.
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Mélanchon ftw.
But I'll probably vote for Hollande to make sure he reaches the second round.
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The abstention is going to be huge. Nobody likes Sarkozy or Hollande, it's going to be the elections of the "less worse".
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On March 20 2012 04:53 TanTzoR wrote:
The abstention is going to be huge. Nobody likes Sarkozy or Hollande, it's going to be the elections of the "less worse".
Poll say abstention should be only a little higher than in 2007, where it was really low.
Anyway the fact that it's for the less worse is not a good reason, 2007 was a lot about I-hate-Sarkozy against I-hate-Royal, and abstention was low.
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Thanks for the great summary.
I think both Sarkozy and Hollande are ok, but maybe I would prefer Hollande. I have the feeling the center-left parties in europe at the moment match my understanding of the european idea the most. And I didnt like Sarkozys comments regarding the Schenken-Agreement.
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France266 Posts
On March 20 2012 05:00 corumjhaelen wrote:
Poll say abstention should be only a little higher than in 2007, where it was really low.
Anyway the fact that it's for the less worse is not a good reason, 2007 was a lot about I-hate-Sarkozy against I-hate-Royal, and abstention was low.
At the moment, 78% of the voters are expected to vote in the first round, but so far the people are quite disapointed by the campaign. According to an IPSOS poll, two third of the voters think that the campaign is boring, notably because the candidates don't focus enough on issues such as employment, housing, purchasing power... And because of candidates bashing each others.
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Sad you did not present Eva Joly. Sure she is between 1-3% in the polls. And sure she is pretty bad at communicating and promoting her program. But actually, she seems far more genuine than the others and her program is actually very interesting with a real goal for the next 5 years : to develop renewable energy production in France, and start the denuclearization of electricity production in France. As far as I can tell, she is the one with a real project (other than getting out of the euro zone or adding halal stickers on meat -_-).
And on a personnal level, her involvement against corruption as a former judge, and the fact that she is also norwegian would show that french people don't always elect professionnal politicians whose only goal is to be elected.
Concerning the non-french reader of this thread, I am quite interested to read what you think about our candidates and maybe the development of our campaign.
Edit : Thanks for the part about Eva Joly. As everyone can guess she is my personnal choice here.
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On March 20 2012 05:09 Koorb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 05:00 corumjhaelen wrote:
Poll say abstention should be only a little higher than in 2007, where it was really low.
Anyway the fact that it's for the less worse is not a good reason, 2007 was a lot about I-hate-Sarkozy against I-hate-Royal, and abstention was low. At the moment, 78% of the voters are expected to vote in the first round, but so far the people are quite disapointed by the campaign. According to an IPSOS poll, two third of the voters think that the campaign is boring, notably because the candidates don't focus enough on issues such as employment, housing, purchasing power... And because of candidates bashing each others.
I don't find this at all surprising. There seems to be even more poop-flinging than in 2007 and that was hard to top. One of the contributing factors, I think, is the polarizing personality of Sarkozy -- people either love him or completely despise him. Even If you try to have an unbiased opinion, it gets drowned in the insults pro- and anti-Sarkozy give each other on a regular basis.
However, it's a credit to Sarkozy for basically forcing his opponents to use the "I'm not Sarkozy" as their main electoral argument. Like him or hate him, he's good at setting trends and making others fight him on his terms.
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On March 20 2012 05:12 VyingsP wrote:
Sad you did not present Eva Joly. Sure she is between 1-3% in the polls. And sure she is pretty bad at communicating and promoting her program. But actually, she seems far more genuine than the others and her program is actually very interesting with a real goal for the next 5 years : to develop renewable energy production in France, and start the denuclearization of electricity production in France. As far as I can tell, she is the one with a real project (other than getting out of the euro zone or adding halal stickers on meat -_-).
And on a personnal level, her involvement against corruption as a former judge, and the fact that she is also norwegian would show that french people don't always elect professionnal politicians whose only goal is to be elected.
Concerning the non-french reader of this thread, I am quite interested to read what you think about our candidates and maybe the development of our campaign.
Sadly the green party has dropped the denuclearisation part from their program and agreed with the socialists to keep building the EPR.
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Just out of curiousity, how strong is the Pirate Party in France? In Germany they made a pretty big splash when they took 9% in the elections for Berlin's senate and are expected to pass 5% in the next national election (thus entering parliament).
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Just an outside observer from the U.S so take it this for what it is...but it seems to me like Sarkozy is the best out the candidates. I'm sure he's not ideal, but if Le Pen is anything like her dad, then she would not be a good candidate. I don't know if Hollande saying he wants a 75% tax on the rich is just political posturing, but if isn't then it would seem like he wouldn't be a good candidate either.
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On March 20 2012 04:53 TanTzoR wrote:
The abstention is going to be huge. Nobody likes Sarkozy or Hollande, it's going to be the elections of the "less worse".
same here regarding politics in germany!
anyway, good OP, thx for the insight.
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EPT
