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On March 15 2012 09:25 SC2Phoenix wrote:
Sad day for BW fans but not surprised at all. Even though I'm not a big fan of LoL, Riot has some of the best marketing for LoL and it really shows. I don't even want to talk about Sc2... Blizzard had so many ways to hype up Esports and promote their game but they haven't done shit T_T
On the up side for people who dislike LoL, we can hope that companies like Activision/Blizzard take notice. Part of LoL's success isn't just that it's a fun and easily accessible game but that Riot invested in growing it as a competitive game.
Valve already took notice and sponsored their own beta tournament for DotA2. I'm hoping that int he future Blizzard will realize their mistakes and invest in their next competitive game. As much hate as you can attribute to LoL or Riot people have to admit that it's insanely cool to see a developer so serious about growing the competitive scene. Gives every other developer something to strive for when they release a game that they want to be competitive.
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On March 15 2012 09:15 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:13 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 09:07 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:02 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 08:57 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 08:50 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:48 overt wrote:On March 15 2012 08:36 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:07 Sandro wrote:
Haha I love how butthurt the bw fans are ITT. Enjoy a game even worse than SC2 taking over Korean Esports. Are you fucking dumb? LoL > BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC2 in Korea. Get to BW's level first then we'll start taking SC2's impact on Korean eSports scene... a.k.a. close to none. Also, I love the bashing on LoL in this thread. Think about this: What did Riot game do right and what did Blizzard do wrong in Korean scene? Think about it carefully, and you'll find the answer that you need. Yeah, as far as I could tell there aren't a whole lot of Brood War fans who hate on LoL. It's mostly SC2 and DotA fans afaik. SC2 fans dislike it because they were hoping that SC2 would become as popular as Brood War was at its peak, which hasn't really happened so they see LoL as a competition or a game that isn't worthy of SC2's "rightful place" as head of the esports kingdom. Which is understandable to an extent. There is of course a massive massive difference between being disappointed that another game is more popular than yours and just being a dick because you dislike a game. Which is what I see most SC2 fans complain about in regards to LoL. DotA fans are more complicated to me. I think for them they just see LoL as competition for DotA2 as it does directly compete with LoL considering the two games are in the same genre and it seems highly unlikely that DotA2 will put much of a dent in LoL's growth (except maybe in China). I also think that DotA fans and players tend to be the most elitist gamers, I don't have any real facts to back this up it's just been personal experience. I don't have any ill will towards DotA btw, just saying that I think disliking LoL is pretty natural if you have a sort of elitist view towards a game you really love. The fact of the matter is, whether we're talking about North America, Europe, or even most of Asia at this point, League of Legends has taken off as the most popular PC game and has held that position for quite some time. It isn't surprising that its competitive scene is also taking off just as quickly. It seems extremely similar to the early days of Brood War to be honest. Except in early days of BW, Blizzard didn't put that much support into the scene. Rather, they just fix few things here and there through patches, and let the Koreans run their league without the IP right issues or anything similar to that. Early Days of BW: Blizzard lets the Koreans do whatever they want. The scene grew exponentially to become the crowning jewel of E-sports. Early Days of SC2: Blizzard tried to take over everything and shut Kespa and the sponsors out of the scene. The scene never got off to a good start, and is now on life support: Early Days of LoL: Riot ENCOURAGES AND SUPPORTS the Koreans to do what they want with the game. Korean Esports has found new life, and it is now growing very rapidly with full Kespa support. how did they cut out any sponsors? and how is SC2 on life support? life support means that hte only reason it exists is becuase some outside force is feeding them (hey that sounds like LoL) MLG winter arena actually turned a profit so the game is long past being on life support I'm talking about strictly in Korea. Of course everywhere else SC2 is a huge hit and that's good. But The GSL? Please, that league's been only alive in Korea because of outside support. Unless something drastic happens within this year, I wouldn't be surprised if GSL either downsizes massively or even folds within the next 18 months. And Riot in Korea is not force-feeding LoL to Korea. OGN said LoL is very popular here and we want to create a LoL tournament, and Riot gladly helped out. the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2 Who says PPV is the way to go for LoL? BW was never PPV, yet that thrived for a long time. Besides, the stream is not embedded in the client. There was only a banner and a link. Those don't count towards viewers. how many people checked it out becuase there following the scene and were looking forward to it and how many jsut thought "meh ill kill some time might be fun to watch for a bit"
And how do you think casuals become followers? By being exposed to tournaments like this. Riot is doing a great job exposing every player to major tourneys on their client. At the end of the day, LoL simply has a much bigger pool from which tourneys can draw viewers from than SC2.
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On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:07 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:02 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 08:57 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 08:50 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:48 overt wrote:On March 15 2012 08:36 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:07 Sandro wrote:
Haha I love how butthurt the bw fans are ITT. Enjoy a game even worse than SC2 taking over Korean Esports. Are you fucking dumb? LoL > BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC2 in Korea. Get to BW's level first then we'll start taking SC2's impact on Korean eSports scene... a.k.a. close to none. Also, I love the bashing on LoL in this thread. Think about this: What did Riot game do right and what did Blizzard do wrong in Korean scene? Think about it carefully, and you'll find the answer that you need. Yeah, as far as I could tell there aren't a whole lot of Brood War fans who hate on LoL. It's mostly SC2 and DotA fans afaik. SC2 fans dislike it because they were hoping that SC2 would become as popular as Brood War was at its peak, which hasn't really happened so they see LoL as a competition or a game that isn't worthy of SC2's "rightful place" as head of the esports kingdom. Which is understandable to an extent. There is of course a massive massive difference between being disappointed that another game is more popular than yours and just being a dick because you dislike a game. Which is what I see most SC2 fans complain about in regards to LoL. DotA fans are more complicated to me. I think for them they just see LoL as competition for DotA2 as it does directly compete with LoL considering the two games are in the same genre and it seems highly unlikely that DotA2 will put much of a dent in LoL's growth (except maybe in China). I also think that DotA fans and players tend to be the most elitist gamers, I don't have any real facts to back this up it's just been personal experience. I don't have any ill will towards DotA btw, just saying that I think disliking LoL is pretty natural if you have a sort of elitist view towards a game you really love. The fact of the matter is, whether we're talking about North America, Europe, or even most of Asia at this point, League of Legends has taken off as the most popular PC game and has held that position for quite some time. It isn't surprising that its competitive scene is also taking off just as quickly. It seems extremely similar to the early days of Brood War to be honest. Except in early days of BW, Blizzard didn't put that much support into the scene. Rather, they just fix few things here and there through patches, and let the Koreans run their league without the IP right issues or anything similar to that. Early Days of BW: Blizzard lets the Koreans do whatever they want. The scene grew exponentially to become the crowning jewel of E-sports. Early Days of SC2: Blizzard tried to take over everything and shut Kespa and the sponsors out of the scene. The scene never got off to a good start, and is now on life support: Early Days of LoL: Riot ENCOURAGES AND SUPPORTS the Koreans to do what they want with the game. Korean Esports has found new life, and it is now growing very rapidly with full Kespa support. how did they cut out any sponsors? and how is SC2 on life support? life support means that hte only reason it exists is becuase some outside force is feeding them (hey that sounds like LoL) MLG winter arena actually turned a profit so the game is long past being on life support I'm talking about strictly in Korea. Of course everywhere else SC2 is a huge hit and that's good. But The GSL? Please, that league's been only alive in Korea because of outside support. Unless something drastic happens within this year, I wouldn't be surprised if GSL either downsizes massively or even folds within the next 18 months. And Riot in Korea is not force-feeding LoL to Korea. OGN said LoL is very popular here and we want to create a LoL tournament, and Riot gladly helped out. the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2
Why wouldn't they? LoL is obviously making a lot of money and that money is coming from somewhere. People was willing to spend money for LoL. I don't see why not for streams, they obvious have a larger fan base to draw from.
Riot Games was claiming over 11 million monthly active players. Once full numbers are presented for 2011, it is expected that Tencent will have surpassed Activision Blizzard as the company that generates the most revenue from PC games.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/03/06/gdc-2012-pc-games-raked-in-18-6-billion-in-2011/
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My only thing is when u log into League of Legends during a major tournament. The opening screen is a GIANT full screen thing that says "CLick here to watch professional LoL Matches...blahblabhalbhmarketing stuff here but im lazy".
I have 15+ friends who had never had any interest in esports who when they logged into LoL they clicked that, and now they enjoy watching LoL pro's
Seriously Riot is LIGHTYEARS ahead of Blizzard in promoting their game into an esport.
Sc2 is an esport because the players hype it and the community does all of the work.
LoL is an esport because Riot hypes the shit out of hit, does all of the work, and then markets the shit out of it and shows people where they can find it.
Seriously its disgusting how little of Bnet 2.0 that blizzard uses... when they created all of it for these reasons.
Riot communicates with its pro players on a regular basis and will literally adjust the game on a weekly basis to try to get to a sense of balance.
Why LoL will eventually outgrow SC2 for the mainpart (in my opinion) it is a much more casual game, with a much lower skill cap and is more accessible to the masses
and IDK why people think that free streams or free game = no money.
instead of selling their game for $30-$50. They sell champions at about $2-$3 per. And they have almost 100 champions... not to mention boosts, skins, runepages, etc. A LOT of the LoL userbase spends a lot more money than $30 or $50.
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I think what it comes down to is Riot invested in LoL as an esport, and now you're seeing the rewards. Sure Korean BW may have laid the foundation, and SCII brought in foreigners, but ultimately you need to reach the casuals for success, which unfortunately for Blizzard, they haven't been able to do.
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The person above me speaks truth. It's sad that blizzard is doing so little in comparison to Riot to keep their game alive.
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On March 15 2012 09:33 MaestroSC wrote:
My only thing is when u log into League of Legends during a major tournament. The opening screen is a GIANT full screen thing that says "CLick here to watch professional LoL Matches...blahblabhalbhmarketing stuff here but im lazy".
I have 15+ friends who had never had any interest in esports who when they logged into LoL they clicked that, and now they enjoy watching LoL pro's
Seriously Riot is LIGHTYEARS ahead of Blizzard in promoting their game into an esport.
Sc2 is an esport because the players hype it and the community does all of the work.
LoL is an esport because Riot hypes the shit out of hit, does all of the work, and then markets the shit out of it and shows people where they can find it.
Seriously its disgusting how little of Bnet 2.0 that blizzard uses... when they created all of it for these reasons.
Riot communicates with its pro players on a regular basis and will literally adjust the game on a weekly basis to try to get to a sense of balance.
Why LoL will eventually outgrow SC2 for the mainpart (in my opinion) it is a much more casual game, with a much lower skill cap and is more accessible to the masses
and IDK why people think that free streams or free game = no money.
instead of selling their game for $30-$50. They sell champions at about $2-$3 per. And they have almost 100 champions... not to mention boosts, skins, runepages, etc. A LOT of the LoL userbase spends a lot more money than $30 or $50.
true dat.
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On March 15 2012 09:33 MaestroSC wrote:
My only thing is when u log into League of Legends during a major tournament. The opening screen is a GIANT full screen thing that says "CLick here to watch professional LoL Matches...blahblabhalbhmarketing stuff here but im lazy".
I have 15+ friends who had never had any interest in esports who when they logged into LoL they clicked that, and now they enjoy watching LoL pro's
Seriously Riot is LIGHTYEARS ahead of Blizzard in promoting their game into an esport.
Sc2 is an esport because the players hype it and the community does all of the work.
LoL is an esport because Riot hypes the shit out of hit, does all of the work, and then markets the shit out of it and shows people where they can find it.
Seriously its disgusting how little of Bnet 2.0 that blizzard uses... when they created all of it for these reasons.
Riot communicates with its pro players on a regular basis and will literally adjust the game on a weekly basis to try to get to a sense of balance.
Why LoL will eventually outgrow SC2 for the mainpart (in my opinion) it is a much more casual game, with a much lower skill cap and is more accessible to the masses
http://www.riotgames.com/company/team
Look at the management for Riot games, they're mostly former consultants or financial advisers for major firms. I'm willing to bet Blizzard management is full of game developers first. Now w're seeing the results of different management strategies.
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Seriously man ? World of warcraft's arena is just shit... It's not even balanced, it's hella easy, the arena are just so small you see everything or almost everything, it last 10 min at best, it's 3vs3...
Have you played lol or any moba at all ? Map control, ward contest, there are a thousand of things that set any moba game appart from wow shitty arenas.
Yeah seriously, but it was dependant on what composition you played. You arguments can very easily be turned around, cooldown tracking, positioning relative to cooldowns, switches, coordinated CC. Individual performance such as using shadow word: death to counter blind or polymorph if you are a priest etc etc.
Neither of the two games are especially hard or challening to play, i argue that the ONLY thing that is hard in LoL is to function well with your teammates. The game is just too simple to offer any other kind of challenge than that to a veteran gamer. Oh and i have in fact played LoL, and i've played plenty of other moba games such as HoN and the original dota.
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Wow. I did not expect this from Korea, to be honest.
Brood War has a history of being mechanically punishing and requiring a high skill cap to play. Argue as you will, but League of Legends is the easier game among the Dota genre. Could this mean there's a change of Korea's e-Sports culture?
Brood War was played by many in Korea, but many who did not play it watched it for it's difficulty and prestige. Difficulty would seem like a key element in Brood War's success. However, League of Legends' success seems to be fostered around familiarity with the game due to the game's popularity.
I think this is a danger to a long term plan for League of Legends' e-Sports. Once familiarity drops, I'd imagine the viewership drops dramatically, even more so than other games.
Korea, though, is notorious for being unstable when it comes to popularity to new e-Sports. I'm personally more interested in the Chinese scene, which seems to hold onto games longer than Korea.
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I'm surprised, I didn't think LoL was enjoyable to watch, but rather just play. Interesting.
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On March 15 2012 09:41 Terrafros wrote:
Wow. I did not expect this from Korea, to be honest.
Brood War has a history of being mechanically punishing and requiring a high skill cap to play. Argue as you will, but League of Legends is the easier game among the Dota genre. Could this mean there's a change of Korea's e-Sports culture?
Brood War was played by many in Korea, but many who did not play it watched it for it's difficulty and prestige. Difficulty would seem like a key element in Brood War's success. However, League of Legends' success seems to be fostered around familiarity with the game due to the game's popularity.
I think this is a danger to a long term plan for League of Legends' e-Sports. Once familiarity drops, I'd imagine the viewership drops dramatically, even more so than other games.
Korea, though, is notorious for being unstable when it comes to popularity to new e-Sports. I'm personally more interested in the Chinese scene, which seems to hold onto games longer than Korea.
False. Many Koreans played it because you could play it with many people at a PC Bang, and BW can run on ANY computer. Koreans are the most casual gamers around. Most Koreans playing BW play Fastest, BGH, Zero Clutter, or user maps.
And what do you mean, danger? If anything, SC2 is the one in danger in Korea, not LoL.
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On March 15 2012 09:33 MaestroSC wrote:
My only thing is when u log into League of Legends during a major tournament. The opening screen is a GIANT full screen thing that says "CLick here to watch professional LoL Matches...blahblabhalbhmarketing stuff here but im lazy".
I have 15+ friends who had never had any interest in esports who when they logged into LoL they clicked that, and now they enjoy watching LoL pro's
Seriously Riot is LIGHTYEARS ahead of Blizzard in promoting their game into an esport.
Sc2 is an esport because the players hype it and the community does all of the work.
LoL is an esport because Riot hypes the shit out of hit, does all of the work, and then markets the shit out of it and shows people where they can find it.
Seriously its disgusting how little of Bnet 2.0 that blizzard uses... when they created all of it for these reasons.
Riot communicates with its pro players on a regular basis and will literally adjust the game on a weekly basis to try to get to a sense of balance.
Why LoL will eventually outgrow SC2 for the mainpart (in my opinion) it is a much more casual game, with a much lower skill cap and is more accessible to the masses
and IDK why people think that free streams or free game = no money.
instead of selling their game for $30-$50. They sell champions at about $2-$3 per. And they have almost 100 champions... not to mention boosts, skins, runepages, etc. A LOT of the LoL userbase spends a lot more money than $30 or $50.
True shit. And now it's way to late for Blizzard to bust a move. They had their chance like 14 months ago when the release hype still was there and there was alot of fresh and new people to not just RTS or Starcraft but the whole esport and progaming concept. I knew alot of people that actually played Starcraft 2 1v1, and I would find people talk about it in school or on forums i'm on. Today I know no one that is still active in sc2.
They will put in this next patch I believe or soon, but what good will that do? The ones still playing SC2 are the ones that like the game and probably following the pro scene already.
Nope, Blizzard hard their chance but with the fucking worst social platform ever made in a game (bnet 0.2) and no plans on actually help sc2 to become THE esport game they had their vision on making money out of esport instead. And their pitty expansions won't do shit either because now when every person in our social circles already play LoL or DotA2 in the free time you wont get them to buy SC2:WoL and HotS to give SC2 multiplayer a go.
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On March 15 2012 09:41 Terrafros wrote:
Wow. I did not expect this from Korea, to be honest.
Brood War has a history of being mechanically punishing and requiring a high skill cap to play. Argue as you will, but League of Legends is the easier game among the Dota genre. Could this mean there's a change of Korea's e-Sports culture?
Brood War was played by many in Korea, but many who did not play it watched it for it's difficulty and prestige. Difficulty would seem like a key element in Brood War's success. However, League of Legends' success seems to be fostered around familiarity with the game due to the game's popularity.
I think this is a danger to a long term plan for League of Legends' e-Sports. Once familiarity drops, I'd imagine the viewership drops dramatically, even more so than other games.
Korea, though, is notorious for being unstable when it comes to popularity to new e-Sports. I'm personally more interested in the Chinese scene, which seems to hold onto games longer than Korea.
It is not just difficult. It is also immensely fun. How else would the BW scene grow if it wasnt fun to play, fun to watch?
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okay lets come to a conclusion...blizzard needs to fix their marketing or their product sc2 is dying.
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Hmmm... too bad, It's really pretty mindless
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On March 15 2012 09:47 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:41 Terrafros wrote:
Wow. I did not expect this from Korea, to be honest.
Brood War has a history of being mechanically punishing and requiring a high skill cap to play. Argue as you will, but League of Legends is the easier game among the Dota genre. Could this mean there's a change of Korea's e-Sports culture?
Brood War was played by many in Korea, but many who did not play it watched it for it's difficulty and prestige. Difficulty would seem like a key element in Brood War's success. However, League of Legends' success seems to be fostered around familiarity with the game due to the game's popularity.
I think this is a danger to a long term plan for League of Legends' e-Sports. Once familiarity drops, I'd imagine the viewership drops dramatically, even more so than other games.
Korea, though, is notorious for being unstable when it comes to popularity to new e-Sports. I'm personally more interested in the Chinese scene, which seems to hold onto games longer than Korea. False. Many Koreans played it because you could play it with many people at a PC Bang, and BW can run on ANY computer. Koreans are the most casual gamers around. Most Koreans playing BW play Fastest, BGH, Zero Clutter, or user maps. And what do you mean, danger? If anything, SC2 is the one in danger in Korea, not LoL.
Long term, not short term. Eventually, due to the nature of the game, LoL is going to lose familiarity. Their method of creating new content is focused on slight alterations to existing concepts, due to the way their marketing has to be done. They cannot release a revolutionary new hero or map, because that'd alienate people from attempting to play as or against this new hero(without access to each hero, you must keep mechanics simple because else people will not be able to understand each hero). As such, they will hit a point where they'll have to take a risk or continue their current concept of new hero creation. SC2 was in danger from the moment it started, I didn't even mention it because I don't believe it will last much longer(in Korea), unless Heart of the Swarm REALLY throws things around in the same way as Brood War did for Starcraft 1.
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People should be angry at Blizzard not LoL.
Blizzard refuses to advertise SC2 e-sports, shitty bnet 0.2, gives GOM the rights and fucks OGN/MBC, makes it impossible to play SC2 in korean PC Bangs
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On March 15 2012 09:55 Highways wrote:
People should be angry at Blizzard not LoL.
Blizzard refuses to advertise SC2 e-sports, shitty bnet 0.2, gives GOM the rights and fucks OGN/MBC, makes it impossible to play SC2 in korean PC Bangs
no one is mad at LoL, the only thing anyone is mad about it either that they hate the game or hate blizzard's imcompetence.
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Terrible game, great marketing team. I will be sad if this takes over BW. It is almost a battle of principles between two opposites - BW being the the epitome of a hard core individual game with a near infinite skill cap and LoL being an ezpz casual team game.
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EPT
