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On March 15 2012 09:06 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:03 FindMeInKenya wrote:On March 15 2012 08:55 Mcleod21 wrote:
i guess this was bound to happen. Sc2 fans are all busy trying to grow E-Sports, while league of legends was trying to grow League of legends. well we both got what we wanted, Sc2 fans helped grow e-sports, and lol grew lol. we probly should be more greedy Out of curiosity, what did the Sc2 fans do to grow E-Sports? And what specifically are the difference in the effort on growth Esports between the Sc2 fans and LoL fans? made tournaments, started barcrafts, voted with there wallets (unlike LoL fans) advertised like they were crazy people, made an awesome community, set up shows like the Day[9] Daily to help people get into the game LoL fans have yet to start seriously be injecting money into the E-Sports part of the game, the only reason its grown so much is becuae Riot is inflating it with the money the LoL players pay them they need some serious sponsorage and a community thats willing to pay to watch tournaments or the scene will POP
Day[9] dailies started with BW, back when he did them because he liked them. He went over to SC2 for the cash (I'm not blaming him or anything, I'd do the exact same thing). He'll hop right on over to LoL or whatever the newest cash cow is along with Tasteless (another guy who loved BW and clearly just treats SC2 as a job) when the time is right.
It's a pretty good metaphor for SC2 as a whole: Full of burnt-out BW sellouts milking what they can before it dries up. You haven't created anything, don't flatter yourselves.
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On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:
the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2
Heres how you get people to pay for LoL stream tournaments.
Ready?
Pay premium (5-10$) and you get a special IEM/MLG/OGN (champion here) Skin
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On March 15 2012 09:03 archonOOid wrote:there is a difference between bw and sc2 to dota and lol: --- graphics --- macro ---- strategy --- micro --- ui (in relation to each other) bw bad ---- difficult ---- difficult ---- difficult --- bad sc2 good --- easy ---- difficult ----- difficult --- good dota good --- difficult --- difficult --- difficult ---- good lol bad ------ easy ------- easy ------ easy -------- good so as you can see in my table here, set in stone,  that lol is much more easier than dota in comparison sc2 is only so much easier than bw.
what is this hahahahahaha.
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On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:07 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:02 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 08:57 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 08:50 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:48 overt wrote:On March 15 2012 08:36 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:07 Sandro wrote:
Haha I love how butthurt the bw fans are ITT. Enjoy a game even worse than SC2 taking over Korean Esports. Are you fucking dumb? LoL > BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC2 in Korea. Get to BW's level first then we'll start taking SC2's impact on Korean eSports scene... a.k.a. close to none. Also, I love the bashing on LoL in this thread. Think about this: What did Riot game do right and what did Blizzard do wrong in Korean scene? Think about it carefully, and you'll find the answer that you need. Yeah, as far as I could tell there aren't a whole lot of Brood War fans who hate on LoL. It's mostly SC2 and DotA fans afaik. SC2 fans dislike it because they were hoping that SC2 would become as popular as Brood War was at its peak, which hasn't really happened so they see LoL as a competition or a game that isn't worthy of SC2's "rightful place" as head of the esports kingdom. Which is understandable to an extent. There is of course a massive massive difference between being disappointed that another game is more popular than yours and just being a dick because you dislike a game. Which is what I see most SC2 fans complain about in regards to LoL. DotA fans are more complicated to me. I think for them they just see LoL as competition for DotA2 as it does directly compete with LoL considering the two games are in the same genre and it seems highly unlikely that DotA2 will put much of a dent in LoL's growth (except maybe in China). I also think that DotA fans and players tend to be the most elitist gamers, I don't have any real facts to back this up it's just been personal experience. I don't have any ill will towards DotA btw, just saying that I think disliking LoL is pretty natural if you have a sort of elitist view towards a game you really love. The fact of the matter is, whether we're talking about North America, Europe, or even most of Asia at this point, League of Legends has taken off as the most popular PC game and has held that position for quite some time. It isn't surprising that its competitive scene is also taking off just as quickly. It seems extremely similar to the early days of Brood War to be honest. Except in early days of BW, Blizzard didn't put that much support into the scene. Rather, they just fix few things here and there through patches, and let the Koreans run their league without the IP right issues or anything similar to that. Early Days of BW: Blizzard lets the Koreans do whatever they want. The scene grew exponentially to become the crowning jewel of E-sports. Early Days of SC2: Blizzard tried to take over everything and shut Kespa and the sponsors out of the scene. The scene never got off to a good start, and is now on life support: Early Days of LoL: Riot ENCOURAGES AND SUPPORTS the Koreans to do what they want with the game. Korean Esports has found new life, and it is now growing very rapidly with full Kespa support. how did they cut out any sponsors? and how is SC2 on life support? life support means that hte only reason it exists is becuase some outside force is feeding them (hey that sounds like LoL) MLG winter arena actually turned a profit so the game is long past being on life support I'm talking about strictly in Korea. Of course everywhere else SC2 is a huge hit and that's good. But The GSL? Please, that league's been only alive in Korea because of outside support. Unless something drastic happens within this year, I wouldn't be surprised if GSL either downsizes massively or even folds within the next 18 months. And Riot in Korea is not force-feeding LoL to Korea. OGN said LoL is very popular here and we want to create a LoL tournament, and Riot gladly helped out. the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2
Who says PPV is the way to go for LoL? BW was never PPV, yet that thrived for a long time. Besides, the stream is not embedded in the client. There was only a banner and a link. Those don't count towards viewers.
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On March 15 2012 09:10 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 09:07 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:02 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 08:57 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 08:50 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:48 overt wrote:On March 15 2012 08:36 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:07 Sandro wrote:
Haha I love how butthurt the bw fans are ITT. Enjoy a game even worse than SC2 taking over Korean Esports. Are you fucking dumb? LoL > BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC2 in Korea. Get to BW's level first then we'll start taking SC2's impact on Korean eSports scene... a.k.a. close to none. Also, I love the bashing on LoL in this thread. Think about this: What did Riot game do right and what did Blizzard do wrong in Korean scene? Think about it carefully, and you'll find the answer that you need. Yeah, as far as I could tell there aren't a whole lot of Brood War fans who hate on LoL. It's mostly SC2 and DotA fans afaik. SC2 fans dislike it because they were hoping that SC2 would become as popular as Brood War was at its peak, which hasn't really happened so they see LoL as a competition or a game that isn't worthy of SC2's "rightful place" as head of the esports kingdom. Which is understandable to an extent. There is of course a massive massive difference between being disappointed that another game is more popular than yours and just being a dick because you dislike a game. Which is what I see most SC2 fans complain about in regards to LoL. DotA fans are more complicated to me. I think for them they just see LoL as competition for DotA2 as it does directly compete with LoL considering the two games are in the same genre and it seems highly unlikely that DotA2 will put much of a dent in LoL's growth (except maybe in China). I also think that DotA fans and players tend to be the most elitist gamers, I don't have any real facts to back this up it's just been personal experience. I don't have any ill will towards DotA btw, just saying that I think disliking LoL is pretty natural if you have a sort of elitist view towards a game you really love. The fact of the matter is, whether we're talking about North America, Europe, or even most of Asia at this point, League of Legends has taken off as the most popular PC game and has held that position for quite some time. It isn't surprising that its competitive scene is also taking off just as quickly. It seems extremely similar to the early days of Brood War to be honest. Except in early days of BW, Blizzard didn't put that much support into the scene. Rather, they just fix few things here and there through patches, and let the Koreans run their league without the IP right issues or anything similar to that. Early Days of BW: Blizzard lets the Koreans do whatever they want. The scene grew exponentially to become the crowning jewel of E-sports. Early Days of SC2: Blizzard tried to take over everything and shut Kespa and the sponsors out of the scene. The scene never got off to a good start, and is now on life support: Early Days of LoL: Riot ENCOURAGES AND SUPPORTS the Koreans to do what they want with the game. Korean Esports has found new life, and it is now growing very rapidly with full Kespa support. how did they cut out any sponsors? and how is SC2 on life support? life support means that hte only reason it exists is becuase some outside force is feeding them (hey that sounds like LoL) MLG winter arena actually turned a profit so the game is long past being on life support I'm talking about strictly in Korea. Of course everywhere else SC2 is a huge hit and that's good. But The GSL? Please, that league's been only alive in Korea because of outside support. Unless something drastic happens within this year, I wouldn't be surprised if GSL either downsizes massively or even folds within the next 18 months. And Riot in Korea is not force-feeding LoL to Korea. OGN said LoL is very popular here and we want to create a LoL tournament, and Riot gladly helped out. the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2 Holy crap and here I thought I had watched some SC2 in the past, but since I haven't paid a single dollar to watch SC2, from Korea or otherwise, I must have been dreaming.
im talkign about things like gold membership, PPV and buying GSL tickets
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On March 15 2012 09:11 1sz2sz3sz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:
the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2
Heres how you get people to pay for LoL stream tournaments. Ready? Pay premium (5-10$) and you get a special IEM/MLG/OGN (champion here) Skin
I confess I would do it. I'm a sucker for skins =/. But only if it's on a champion I play that doesn't already have a skin.
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On March 15 2012 09:03 FindMeInKenya wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 08:55 Mcleod21 wrote:
i guess this was bound to happen. Sc2 fans are all busy trying to grow E-Sports, while league of legends was trying to grow League of legends. well we both got what we wanted, Sc2 fans helped grow e-sports, and lol grew lol. we probly should be more greedy Out of curiosity, what did the Sc2 fans do to grow E-Sports? And what specifically are the difference in the effort on growth Esports between the Sc2 fans and LoL fans?
They made tons of threads and stuff. LoL definitely wouldn't be successful without SC2. But yeah, it seems pretty ridiculous to basically say, "sure LoL is getting bigger than SC2 but that's 'cause LoL is selfish whereas SC2 tried to help all esports grow!" The LoL scene took off for two reasons, first the game is crazy popular and second because Riot did something no developer has ever done, invested heavily in growing LoL as an esport.
On March 15 2012 09:06 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:03 FindMeInKenya wrote:On March 15 2012 08:55 Mcleod21 wrote:
i guess this was bound to happen. Sc2 fans are all busy trying to grow E-Sports, while league of legends was trying to grow League of legends. well we both got what we wanted, Sc2 fans helped grow e-sports, and lol grew lol. we probly should be more greedy Out of curiosity, what did the Sc2 fans do to grow E-Sports? And what specifically are the difference in the effort on growth Esports between the Sc2 fans and LoL fans? made tournaments, started barcrafts, voted with there wallets (unlike LoL fans) advertised like they were crazy people, made an awesome community, set up shows like the Day[9] Daily to help people get into the game LoL fans have yet to start seriously be injecting money into the E-Sports part of the game, the only reason its grown so much is becuae Riot is inflating it with the money the LoL players pay them they need some serious sponsorage and a community thats willing to pay to watch tournaments or the scene will POP
There are tons of community organized tournaments in LoL. CLG, a pro-gaming LoL team, is sponsoring their own league. There's a direct copycat of State of the Game for LoL (which I don't really watch cause I'm not interested in it). LoL fans have spent tons of money on their game and in turn have made Riot one of the richest PC gaming companies. Riot then in turn used that money to grow the scene. I would say it's likely that I've supported "esports" far more by buying RP in LoL than I ever have by watching or purchasing SC2.
There are tons of sponsors for teams in LoL. In North America, Europe, Korea, and China. These sponsors are completely devoid of Riot. Hell, LoL has two US teams that are owned by themselves and primarily support themselves through money they get from streaming themselves playing solo queue. That's how big the LoL scene is. It's so big that teams like CLG and TSM can afford to live on their own, pay for airfare and hotel fees, by simply streaming themselves playing the game.
I'm sure the scene will die one day. But that day is incredibly far away.
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On March 15 2012 09:13 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 09:07 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:02 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 08:57 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 08:50 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:48 overt wrote:On March 15 2012 08:36 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:07 Sandro wrote:
Haha I love how butthurt the bw fans are ITT. Enjoy a game even worse than SC2 taking over Korean Esports. Are you fucking dumb? LoL > BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC2 in Korea. Get to BW's level first then we'll start taking SC2's impact on Korean eSports scene... a.k.a. close to none. Also, I love the bashing on LoL in this thread. Think about this: What did Riot game do right and what did Blizzard do wrong in Korean scene? Think about it carefully, and you'll find the answer that you need. Yeah, as far as I could tell there aren't a whole lot of Brood War fans who hate on LoL. It's mostly SC2 and DotA fans afaik. SC2 fans dislike it because they were hoping that SC2 would become as popular as Brood War was at its peak, which hasn't really happened so they see LoL as a competition or a game that isn't worthy of SC2's "rightful place" as head of the esports kingdom. Which is understandable to an extent. There is of course a massive massive difference between being disappointed that another game is more popular than yours and just being a dick because you dislike a game. Which is what I see most SC2 fans complain about in regards to LoL. DotA fans are more complicated to me. I think for them they just see LoL as competition for DotA2 as it does directly compete with LoL considering the two games are in the same genre and it seems highly unlikely that DotA2 will put much of a dent in LoL's growth (except maybe in China). I also think that DotA fans and players tend to be the most elitist gamers, I don't have any real facts to back this up it's just been personal experience. I don't have any ill will towards DotA btw, just saying that I think disliking LoL is pretty natural if you have a sort of elitist view towards a game you really love. The fact of the matter is, whether we're talking about North America, Europe, or even most of Asia at this point, League of Legends has taken off as the most popular PC game and has held that position for quite some time. It isn't surprising that its competitive scene is also taking off just as quickly. It seems extremely similar to the early days of Brood War to be honest. Except in early days of BW, Blizzard didn't put that much support into the scene. Rather, they just fix few things here and there through patches, and let the Koreans run their league without the IP right issues or anything similar to that. Early Days of BW: Blizzard lets the Koreans do whatever they want. The scene grew exponentially to become the crowning jewel of E-sports. Early Days of SC2: Blizzard tried to take over everything and shut Kespa and the sponsors out of the scene. The scene never got off to a good start, and is now on life support: Early Days of LoL: Riot ENCOURAGES AND SUPPORTS the Koreans to do what they want with the game. Korean Esports has found new life, and it is now growing very rapidly with full Kespa support. how did they cut out any sponsors? and how is SC2 on life support? life support means that hte only reason it exists is becuase some outside force is feeding them (hey that sounds like LoL) MLG winter arena actually turned a profit so the game is long past being on life support I'm talking about strictly in Korea. Of course everywhere else SC2 is a huge hit and that's good. But The GSL? Please, that league's been only alive in Korea because of outside support. Unless something drastic happens within this year, I wouldn't be surprised if GSL either downsizes massively or even folds within the next 18 months. And Riot in Korea is not force-feeding LoL to Korea. OGN said LoL is very popular here and we want to create a LoL tournament, and Riot gladly helped out. the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2 Who says PPV is the way to go for LoL? BW was never PPV, yet that thrived for a long time. Besides, the stream is not embedded in the client. There was only a banner and a link. Those don't count towards viewers.
how many people checked it out becuase there following the scene and were looking forward to it and how many jsut thought "meh ill kill some time might be fun to watch for a bit"
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On March 15 2012 09:14 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:10 daemir wrote:On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 09:07 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:02 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 08:57 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 08:50 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:48 overt wrote:On March 15 2012 08:36 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:07 Sandro wrote:
Haha I love how butthurt the bw fans are ITT. Enjoy a game even worse than SC2 taking over Korean Esports. Are you fucking dumb? LoL > BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC2 in Korea. Get to BW's level first then we'll start taking SC2's impact on Korean eSports scene... a.k.a. close to none. Also, I love the bashing on LoL in this thread. Think about this: What did Riot game do right and what did Blizzard do wrong in Korean scene? Think about it carefully, and you'll find the answer that you need. Yeah, as far as I could tell there aren't a whole lot of Brood War fans who hate on LoL. It's mostly SC2 and DotA fans afaik. SC2 fans dislike it because they were hoping that SC2 would become as popular as Brood War was at its peak, which hasn't really happened so they see LoL as a competition or a game that isn't worthy of SC2's "rightful place" as head of the esports kingdom. Which is understandable to an extent. There is of course a massive massive difference between being disappointed that another game is more popular than yours and just being a dick because you dislike a game. Which is what I see most SC2 fans complain about in regards to LoL. DotA fans are more complicated to me. I think for them they just see LoL as competition for DotA2 as it does directly compete with LoL considering the two games are in the same genre and it seems highly unlikely that DotA2 will put much of a dent in LoL's growth (except maybe in China). I also think that DotA fans and players tend to be the most elitist gamers, I don't have any real facts to back this up it's just been personal experience. I don't have any ill will towards DotA btw, just saying that I think disliking LoL is pretty natural if you have a sort of elitist view towards a game you really love. The fact of the matter is, whether we're talking about North America, Europe, or even most of Asia at this point, League of Legends has taken off as the most popular PC game and has held that position for quite some time. It isn't surprising that its competitive scene is also taking off just as quickly. It seems extremely similar to the early days of Brood War to be honest. Except in early days of BW, Blizzard didn't put that much support into the scene. Rather, they just fix few things here and there through patches, and let the Koreans run their league without the IP right issues or anything similar to that. Early Days of BW: Blizzard lets the Koreans do whatever they want. The scene grew exponentially to become the crowning jewel of E-sports. Early Days of SC2: Blizzard tried to take over everything and shut Kespa and the sponsors out of the scene. The scene never got off to a good start, and is now on life support: Early Days of LoL: Riot ENCOURAGES AND SUPPORTS the Koreans to do what they want with the game. Korean Esports has found new life, and it is now growing very rapidly with full Kespa support. how did they cut out any sponsors? and how is SC2 on life support? life support means that hte only reason it exists is becuase some outside force is feeding them (hey that sounds like LoL) MLG winter arena actually turned a profit so the game is long past being on life support I'm talking about strictly in Korea. Of course everywhere else SC2 is a huge hit and that's good. But The GSL? Please, that league's been only alive in Korea because of outside support. Unless something drastic happens within this year, I wouldn't be surprised if GSL either downsizes massively or even folds within the next 18 months. And Riot in Korea is not force-feeding LoL to Korea. OGN said LoL is very popular here and we want to create a LoL tournament, and Riot gladly helped out. the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2 Holy crap and here I thought I had watched some SC2 in the past, but since I haven't paid a single dollar to watch SC2, from Korea or otherwise, I must have been dreaming. im talkign about things like gold membership, PPV and buying GSL tickets
So not only does Riot make massively better job at marketing LoL and spreading it as Esport, I don't even need to pay to view the game that was free to play. Fk sake, clearly the world is ending, have my wallet Riot, take my money, this is not how the world is supposed to work!
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On March 15 2012 09:11 Hinanawi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:06 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 09:03 FindMeInKenya wrote:On March 15 2012 08:55 Mcleod21 wrote:
i guess this was bound to happen. Sc2 fans are all busy trying to grow E-Sports, while league of legends was trying to grow League of legends. well we both got what we wanted, Sc2 fans helped grow e-sports, and lol grew lol. we probly should be more greedy Out of curiosity, what did the Sc2 fans do to grow E-Sports? And what specifically are the difference in the effort on growth Esports between the Sc2 fans and LoL fans? made tournaments, started barcrafts, voted with there wallets (unlike LoL fans) advertised like they were crazy people, made an awesome community, set up shows like the Day[9] Daily to help people get into the game LoL fans have yet to start seriously be injecting money into the E-Sports part of the game, the only reason its grown so much is becuae Riot is inflating it with the money the LoL players pay them they need some serious sponsorage and a community thats willing to pay to watch tournaments or the scene will POP Day[9] dailies started with BW, back when he did them because he liked them. He went over to SC2 for the cash (I'm not blaming him or anything, I'd do the exact same thing). He'll hop right on over to LoL or whatever the newest cash cow is along with Tasteless (another guy who loved BW and clearly just treats SC2 as a job) when the time is right. It's a pretty good metaphor for SC2 as a whole: Full of burnt-out BW sellouts milking what they can before it dries up. You haven't created anything, don't flatter yourselves.
so now DAy[9] has lost his passion too?
Day[9] and tasteless arent gonna hop over to LoL unless the SC2 community completely disapears and theres no tournaments at all
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On March 15 2012 09:14 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:10 daemir wrote:On March 15 2012 09:08 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 09:07 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:02 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 08:57 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 08:50 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:48 overt wrote:On March 15 2012 08:36 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:07 Sandro wrote:
Haha I love how butthurt the bw fans are ITT. Enjoy a game even worse than SC2 taking over Korean Esports. Are you fucking dumb? LoL > BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC2 in Korea. Get to BW's level first then we'll start taking SC2's impact on Korean eSports scene... a.k.a. close to none. Also, I love the bashing on LoL in this thread. Think about this: What did Riot game do right and what did Blizzard do wrong in Korean scene? Think about it carefully, and you'll find the answer that you need. Yeah, as far as I could tell there aren't a whole lot of Brood War fans who hate on LoL. It's mostly SC2 and DotA fans afaik. SC2 fans dislike it because they were hoping that SC2 would become as popular as Brood War was at its peak, which hasn't really happened so they see LoL as a competition or a game that isn't worthy of SC2's "rightful place" as head of the esports kingdom. Which is understandable to an extent. There is of course a massive massive difference between being disappointed that another game is more popular than yours and just being a dick because you dislike a game. Which is what I see most SC2 fans complain about in regards to LoL. DotA fans are more complicated to me. I think for them they just see LoL as competition for DotA2 as it does directly compete with LoL considering the two games are in the same genre and it seems highly unlikely that DotA2 will put much of a dent in LoL's growth (except maybe in China). I also think that DotA fans and players tend to be the most elitist gamers, I don't have any real facts to back this up it's just been personal experience. I don't have any ill will towards DotA btw, just saying that I think disliking LoL is pretty natural if you have a sort of elitist view towards a game you really love. The fact of the matter is, whether we're talking about North America, Europe, or even most of Asia at this point, League of Legends has taken off as the most popular PC game and has held that position for quite some time. It isn't surprising that its competitive scene is also taking off just as quickly. It seems extremely similar to the early days of Brood War to be honest. Except in early days of BW, Blizzard didn't put that much support into the scene. Rather, they just fix few things here and there through patches, and let the Koreans run their league without the IP right issues or anything similar to that. Early Days of BW: Blizzard lets the Koreans do whatever they want. The scene grew exponentially to become the crowning jewel of E-sports. Early Days of SC2: Blizzard tried to take over everything and shut Kespa and the sponsors out of the scene. The scene never got off to a good start, and is now on life support: Early Days of LoL: Riot ENCOURAGES AND SUPPORTS the Koreans to do what they want with the game. Korean Esports has found new life, and it is now growing very rapidly with full Kespa support. how did they cut out any sponsors? and how is SC2 on life support? life support means that hte only reason it exists is becuase some outside force is feeding them (hey that sounds like LoL) MLG winter arena actually turned a profit so the game is long past being on life support I'm talking about strictly in Korea. Of course everywhere else SC2 is a huge hit and that's good. But The GSL? Please, that league's been only alive in Korea because of outside support. Unless something drastic happens within this year, I wouldn't be surprised if GSL either downsizes massively or even folds within the next 18 months. And Riot in Korea is not force-feeding LoL to Korea. OGN said LoL is very popular here and we want to create a LoL tournament, and Riot gladly helped out. the problem is the numbers for LoL are inflated since its free and they offer free streams of tournamets, im willing to bet my last dollar that a lot less people are willing to pay to watch LoL then people willing to apy to watch SC2 Holy crap and here I thought I had watched some SC2 in the past, but since I haven't paid a single dollar to watch SC2, from Korea or otherwise, I must have been dreaming. im talkign about things like gold membership, PPV and buying GSL tickets
Don't think LoL needs to go PPV to be sustainable. Past few tournaments without riot's sponsorship had some impressive numbers.
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On March 15 2012 09:03 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 08:57 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 08:50 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:48 overt wrote:On March 15 2012 08:36 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 08:07 Sandro wrote:
Haha I love how butthurt the bw fans are ITT. Enjoy a game even worse than SC2 taking over Korean Esports. Are you fucking dumb? LoL > BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC2 in Korea. Get to BW's level first then we'll start taking SC2's impact on Korean eSports scene... a.k.a. close to none. Also, I love the bashing on LoL in this thread. Think about this: What did Riot game do right and what did Blizzard do wrong in Korean scene? Think about it carefully, and you'll find the answer that you need. Yeah, as far as I could tell there aren't a whole lot of Brood War fans who hate on LoL. It's mostly SC2 and DotA fans afaik. SC2 fans dislike it because they were hoping that SC2 would become as popular as Brood War was at its peak, which hasn't really happened so they see LoL as a competition or a game that isn't worthy of SC2's "rightful place" as head of the esports kingdom. Which is understandable to an extent. There is of course a massive massive difference between being disappointed that another game is more popular than yours and just being a dick because you dislike a game. Which is what I see most SC2 fans complain about in regards to LoL. DotA fans are more complicated to me. I think for them they just see LoL as competition for DotA2 as it does directly compete with LoL considering the two games are in the same genre and it seems highly unlikely that DotA2 will put much of a dent in LoL's growth (except maybe in China). I also think that DotA fans and players tend to be the most elitist gamers, I don't have any real facts to back this up it's just been personal experience. I don't have any ill will towards DotA btw, just saying that I think disliking LoL is pretty natural if you have a sort of elitist view towards a game you really love. The fact of the matter is, whether we're talking about North America, Europe, or even most of Asia at this point, League of Legends has taken off as the most popular PC game and has held that position for quite some time. It isn't surprising that its competitive scene is also taking off just as quickly. It seems extremely similar to the early days of Brood War to be honest. Except in early days of BW, Blizzard didn't put that much support into the scene. Rather, they just fix few things here and there through patches, and let the Koreans run their league without the IP right issues or anything similar to that. Early Days of BW: Blizzard lets the Koreans do whatever they want. The scene grew exponentially to become the crowning jewel of E-sports. Early Days of SC2: Blizzard tried to take over everything and shut Kespa and the sponsors out of the scene. The scene never got off to a good start, and is now on life support: Early Days of LoL: Riot ENCOURAGES AND SUPPORTS the Koreans to do what they want with the game. Korean Esports has found new life, and it is now growing very rapidly with full Kespa support. After all these things, they might have notice what was happening in the scene. Seems like they just gave up in Korea rofl.
Seriously. Blizzard let go of Korea in a hearbeat. It's time for everyone else here to accept the fact that they just have to move on in SC2 without Korea soon. If SC2 dies because it failed to capture Korea, then that will just show how shallow the scene really was.
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Meh, I think people are missing something here - Blizzard has made mistakes in promoting SC 2 but at the end of the day, it's RTS games as a genre that's falling by the way side. BW was huge back when RTS games were popular, but the story of our time is the rise of MOBA games. The RTS genre has been declining since WC 3, and there hasn't been a record breaking RTS since BW.
If you want people to blame for the success of MOBA games, blame Eul, Guinsoo, and Icefrog for creating the genre. Having Blizzard support for a game is helpful, but look at Riot - no one helped them, yet here they are.
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On March 15 2012 09:04 Neurosis wrote:
I think the reason sc2 is struggling is because they changed the game way too much. I'm not blaming them, the community bitched and moaned about rushes being "OP" (myself included) but now we have extremely stale games and balance issues galore. I think sc2 was meant to be played from start to finish constantly fighting your opponent instead we now have everyone sitting on their ass macroing up death balls and its just not good.
Well I believe it's up to the players; if they are content with a 60-70% winrate then sure, the macro deathball is a good strategy.
I agree with Juicyfruit when he said that competition is driven by the players. For example just take a look at Sc2 mid-game / late-game micromanagement at pro level: it's arguably relatively underdeveloped and unrefined, yet we're 2 years after release. I don't think the game itself prevents players from providing high quality play.
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On March 15 2012 09:11 Hinanawi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:06 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 09:03 FindMeInKenya wrote:On March 15 2012 08:55 Mcleod21 wrote:
i guess this was bound to happen. Sc2 fans are all busy trying to grow E-Sports, while league of legends was trying to grow League of legends. well we both got what we wanted, Sc2 fans helped grow e-sports, and lol grew lol. we probly should be more greedy Out of curiosity, what did the Sc2 fans do to grow E-Sports? And what specifically are the difference in the effort on growth Esports between the Sc2 fans and LoL fans? made tournaments, started barcrafts, voted with there wallets (unlike LoL fans) advertised like they were crazy people, made an awesome community, set up shows like the Day[9] Daily to help people get into the game LoL fans have yet to start seriously be injecting money into the E-Sports part of the game, the only reason its grown so much is becuae Riot is inflating it with the money the LoL players pay them they need some serious sponsorage and a community thats willing to pay to watch tournaments or the scene will POP Day[9] dailies started with BW, back when he did them because he liked them. He went over to SC2 for the cash (I'm not blaming him or anything, I'd do the exact same thing). He'll hop right on over to LoL or whatever the newest cash cow is along with Tasteless (another guy who loved BW and clearly just treats SC2 as a job) when the time is right. It's a pretty good metaphor for SC2 as a whole: Full of burnt-out BW sellouts milking what they can before it dries up. You haven't created anything, don't flatter yourselves.
Day9 will actually never go to LoL.
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On March 15 2012 09:19 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 09:11 Hinanawi wrote:On March 15 2012 09:06 Forikorder wrote:On March 15 2012 09:03 FindMeInKenya wrote:On March 15 2012 08:55 Mcleod21 wrote:
i guess this was bound to happen. Sc2 fans are all busy trying to grow E-Sports, while league of legends was trying to grow League of legends. well we both got what we wanted, Sc2 fans helped grow e-sports, and lol grew lol. we probly should be more greedy Out of curiosity, what did the Sc2 fans do to grow E-Sports? And what specifically are the difference in the effort on growth Esports between the Sc2 fans and LoL fans? made tournaments, started barcrafts, voted with there wallets (unlike LoL fans) advertised like they were crazy people, made an awesome community, set up shows like the Day[9] Daily to help people get into the game LoL fans have yet to start seriously be injecting money into the E-Sports part of the game, the only reason its grown so much is becuae Riot is inflating it with the money the LoL players pay them they need some serious sponsorage and a community thats willing to pay to watch tournaments or the scene will POP Day[9] dailies started with BW, back when he did them because he liked them. He went over to SC2 for the cash (I'm not blaming him or anything, I'd do the exact same thing). He'll hop right on over to LoL or whatever the newest cash cow is along with Tasteless (another guy who loved BW and clearly just treats SC2 as a job) when the time is right. It's a pretty good metaphor for SC2 as a whole: Full of burnt-out BW sellouts milking what they can before it dries up. You haven't created anything, don't flatter yourselves. Day9 will actually never go to LoL.
If anything, he'll go back to BW  Back to the days when he was so excited to have 300 viewers on his livestream!
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On March 14 2012 23:17 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:16 MutaDoom wrote:On March 14 2012 23:08 Anachromy wrote:
Football Didn't Kill Baseball.
Basketball Didn't Kill Hockey.
LoL Won't kill SC2/BW
For E-Sports to truly Cultivate itself, it needs added exposure. additional games that people can rally behind is a good thing.
Why can't some people understand this?
Lol I am fairly certain that hockey ratings recently have started to overshadow basketball in the American market, so quite the opposite actually. BW has been dwindling guys (Team 8 lol), it is time to accept the new wave Funny, that's what people said about SC2. And now the SC2 guys are all unhappy about LoL taking over. Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:17 ShadeR wrote:
Straight up i like BW. I don't give a rats arse about esports lol. Personally, I have no qualms if you're frank and honest about that. It's just the hypocrisy of a lot of SC2 fans that's both amusing and irritating at the same time.
I love it when posts like this come up. it makes me feel fuzzy inside
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Sad day for BW fans but not surprised at all. Even though I'm not a big fan of LoL, Riot has some of the best marketing for LoL and it really shows. I don't even want to talk about Sc2... Blizzard had so many ways to hype up Esports and promote their game but they haven't done shit T_T
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cs 1.6 had more viewers in finals than sc did in iem o_O sc2 is fun but that doesnt mean there are other esports out there. i think people just deluded themselves into thinking everyone only played sc or smthn
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Only Day9 knows where he will or he won't go, but I it would be freaking awesome to have him back to BW
Bet he's rusty though, would dare to say he can't reach B- rightnow ;p
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EPT
