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Hello, my name is John (not really). And League of Legends is boring to play and watch, is super easy, and is a bad game!
I know that i have 0 evidence to support a SINGLE claim i made.
And i have no reason to believe what I am writing, but I am telling you all that I am right and everything i said is 100% true, because i have internet access.
Seriously people.
Saying dumb crap like "its too easy" "its boring" "its not good to watch" "its not competitive" is a joke when it pulls better numbers than any other esport currently.... seriously some of the posts on here are completely ludicrous garbage writting by self-righteous self-centered windbags.
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On March 15 2012 10:24 Tsuycc wrote:
I've played LoL, and this has been the meta game since the release, because of their flawed map design
1-top
1-jungle
1-middle
2-bot
If we could relate this to a traditional sport, Imagine two soccer teams being forced to use the same formation every game, wouldn't that get boring after awhile? thats why I don't think this will be a good game for e-sports, and hopefully it dies down in a year or two
That's like saying basketball has point guard, center, forward, etc that doesn't change. LoL strategy changes based on the champion selection/team composition, your opponent's composition, and your items.
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well thats what happens when sc2 doesnt live up to the hype. And this is coming from an old school starcraft player. dont get me wrong, sc2 is fun, but oftentimes watching live matches i find myself bored. It just seems too repetitive, no creativity, just the same old same old and it takes way too long for the action to start. What made bw so successful was how entertaining watching a match was, you had instant action, early game aggression that was kept throughout the entire game with subtle battles here and there throughout the map so there were barely any dull moments. in sc2 you have to wait like 15 minutes for the action to start, while both players try and max because theyre afraid of committing to early agression and losing it all. theres no slow pushing in tvp. no splitting of mutas in tvz, just magic box or mass muta, no insane muta micro. pvp is a coinflip.
playing sc2 feels so repetitive, i feel like every single game i do the same thing over and over. so lately i havent played any sc2, and ive been playing alot of LoL because frankly its more entertaining. Its not harder or necessarily more in depth than sc2 and the games might only be slightly more entertaining to watch for followers of the game because action begins immediately.
IMO the only way for starcraft to regain its throne is for HotS to really REALLY do the brand that is STARCRAFT justice. go back to what made brood war great. i still like starcraft 2, but i dont feel the urge to play it anymore like i did the first 4 months. I got to high diamond as terran and then i got bored. now LoL has my interest, even if its only for the same reasons sc2 did, because its a new game to me.
thats my 2 cents. blizzard, PLEASE pleassssseeeeeeee make HotS GREAT not just good. make it GREAT
edit: i had a way better post written, one that wasn't so all over the place but i deleted it and hated myself for it so excuse me that this rewriting of it wasnt as good, still the idea is the same.
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On March 15 2012 10:24 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 10:03 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:54 Terrafros wrote:On March 15 2012 09:47 jpak wrote:On March 15 2012 09:41 Terrafros wrote:
Wow. I did not expect this from Korea, to be honest.
Brood War has a history of being mechanically punishing and requiring a high skill cap to play. Argue as you will, but League of Legends is the easier game among the Dota genre. Could this mean there's a change of Korea's e-Sports culture?
Brood War was played by many in Korea, but many who did not play it watched it for it's difficulty and prestige. Difficulty would seem like a key element in Brood War's success. However, League of Legends' success seems to be fostered around familiarity with the game due to the game's popularity.
I think this is a danger to a long term plan for League of Legends' e-Sports. Once familiarity drops, I'd imagine the viewership drops dramatically, even more so than other games.
Korea, though, is notorious for being unstable when it comes to popularity to new e-Sports. I'm personally more interested in the Chinese scene, which seems to hold onto games longer than Korea. False. Many Koreans played it because you could play it with many people at a PC Bang, and BW can run on ANY computer. Koreans are the most casual gamers around. Most Koreans playing BW play Fastest, BGH, Zero Clutter, or user maps. And what do you mean, danger? If anything, SC2 is the one in danger in Korea, not LoL. Long term, not short term. Eventually, due to the nature of the game, LoL is going to lose familiarity. Their method of creating new content is focused on slight alterations to existing concepts, due to the way their marketing has to be done. They cannot release a revolutionary new hero or map, because that'd alienate people from attempting to play as or against this new hero(without access to each hero, you must keep mechanics simple because else people will not be able to understand each hero). As such, they will hit a point where they'll have to take a risk or continue their current concept of new hero creation. SC2 was in danger from the moment it started, I didn't even mention it because I don't believe it will last much longer(in Korea), unless Heart of the Swarm REALLY throws things around in the same way as Brood War did for Starcraft 1. Okay, I get your point. Part of the reason BW lasted for so long is because, despite the changes in the builds and the metagame over the years, all the units stayed the same throughout those years. Marines still do 6 normal damage, and have stim and range upgrades after 10 years. It will be interesting to see if LoL can be sustainable for even 5 more years, but if Kim Carrier and the entire OGN crew are behind the game, then I am confident that it will be. Do people like LoL because it's familiar or do they like it because they enjoy playing it? If anything LoL could potentially benefit from constantly getting new content because the game won't get "old" or stagnant with a constant flow of champions. Personally, I dislike how often new content is added but a vast majority of the community looks forward to new champions and continues playing because of the excitement of new characters. Which I think can keep the game's competitive scene going for an extremely long time. iirc, Riot has already said they have a set number of champions they want to create. I'm not sure if that's a true statement or not, nor am I sure when they'll get to that set number. But once they do have a set number of characters the only changes will probably be balance changes and the addition of new skins. So the game will have familiarity as well assuming Riot stops releasing champions (and I strongly believe they will eventually).
Ultimately, people play a game because it is fun to play. As long as it continues fun to play, and I believe Kim Carrier said he stays up all night playing LoL, it will continue to be successful.
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On March 15 2012 10:19 Exempt. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:52 Kerotan89 wrote:
Gotta laugh at this community going here, I thought you guys were all about promoting ESPORTS no matter what game or how easy (Supposedly) it is.
The sad thing is the majority of people posting 'loleasy game' here probably arent even rated over 1000 in ranked games, yet its suppoesdly an easygame?
The game is easy to get into and learn plus its free, thats why it is the most popular game going atm (Minor WoW) But it still takes quite a bit of skill and knowledge invested into the game to be good, not to mention you have to coordinate with four other people. which part of that does dota not have and more is our entire point. If you go listen to professional players giving advice their most complex deep thinking of the game results in concepts such as focus firing...an absolutely simplistic term in other games. The games been more or less solved and soon as koreans play 8-10 hours a day it will only be more proven I don't know why we have to be this argument. This shit is killing esports because it shows how fickle this business truly is simply because of how fast games fucking come and go. THAT IS BAD.
But you guys spent the last 2 years clamoring for BW players and sponsors to hurry and 'move on' from 'the past'.
It just turned out that they moved on to a game you don't like, or in sponsors' cases, to K-Pop (ie leaving gaming altogether)
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SC2 ranked #18th!!?!?! Holy crap.
i recently began playing LoL because its a much more casual game and easy to play, but from a spectator point of view, the game is FAR from close to entertaining as SC2
oh yea, i blame blizz... for shit bnet, shit 'esports team' and shit support for the community(LAN/etc)
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I just hope esports continues to grow. I play LoL, it's not my favorite game but it's relaxing and fun. I don't find it nearly as watchable as Dota2, SC2, or BW, but if LoL becomes a breakthrough esports success on par with BW I'd still be very happy. Obviously I'd rather see SC2 be the successor to BW, which may still happen if Kespa and Blizzard get on the same page.
People need to be open minded about all this. Mechanically it's an easier game compared to SC2 and Dota (and MUCH easier than BW, goes without saying), but high level LoL is still very compelling stuff. They need to improve the viewing system but it's not a problem with content. The strategies are still growing and changing too, so it's not like it's going to become stale anytime soon.
The battle between Dota2 and LoL, however it turns out, will be great for fans of Dota style games and esports in general. Both developers know they have a huge competitor who can easily wipe them out if they're not diligent in producing a quality product.
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Popularity of an e-sport hinges predominantly on the player base for the game. LoL has a monstrous player base and of that base some of the people watch the competitive scene. Whether the game is able to flourish under the limelight of television broadcasts to people who don't play the game is a different story, but if the player base at least enjoys it then the game will be here to stay.
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On March 15 2012 04:51 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:39 JiYan wrote:On March 15 2012 04:31 iCanada wrote:On March 15 2012 04:05 JiYan wrote:On March 15 2012 03:57 iCanada wrote:On March 15 2012 03:50 Kowalski wrote:
Im gonna start of by saying i have played some LoL and i am terrible at it. i have a hard time accepting LoL as an E-sport for many reasons but the biggest one ( in my opinion ) being balance. Every now and then they throw in another hero or two and i just can not comprehend how on earth they can balance that with the other XX number of heroes. Obviously starcraft is not perfectly balanced either but they are doing a pretty good job on it. Another thing is in LoL you have levels a natural talent that just started playing will have a huge disadvantage playing a lvl 30 player, while in SC-SC2 its you your keyboard and your skill thats all there is to it. Please excuse my english, oh and i would love to hear a LoL player actually talk a bit on their opinion on new heroes being added to the game constantly and balance in general. The game stays fairly balanced simply on the merit of being able to ban champions before the game and having the ability to counterpick your opponent. If something is flat out broken, it just gets banned every game then fixed the next patch. Also, the game only places you with players in your own level group unless the lower level player groups with level 30 before hand (which is you willingly gimping yourself.). You will never have the situation where you start a new account and are playing against players with stat advantages against you because you only play with people from your level group. Level 5s get placed with other level 5s. Allowing bans can be similar to how starcraft players veto maps, but the problem is that the pool is wayyy large. Most RTS games find difficulty in balancing their games simply because there are too many races / factions to balance equally. Starcraft having only 3 races makes things a little more simpler since there are only 6 matchups. In a game of 90 "factions" i dont see how its even possible to balance the game. Only 21 of riots 94 champions weren't picked/banned in the 100 or so games played at IEM Hannover... Banning champions is obvious, but the thing that keeps LoL (and any other moba) super balanced is that if something is really strong you can stop them from getting really strong by just picking a champion that beats them in lane because of say a range advantage, a sustain advatage, or say even a I just will kill you if you try to fight me 1 vs 1 advantage. Thats the thing, every champ has different kits, ranges, and powercurves. For example say your opponent picks Irelia, you can just stop Irelia (a late game monster) from being a real threat late game by taking a champ that grab an advantage early game when she doesn't have a ton of tankiness/damage potential... and there are several of these champs (Chogath, Pantheon, Jarvan, Riven , Renekton, Nocturne etc off the top of my head). Irelia might be a strong/imbalanced champion but you counter that... much like Reavers are a strong/imbalanced unit but you can counter that as well. Ahh but I don't think that argument holds. What I think you're saying is similar to saying "if brood lords are overpowered, just 4gate the zerg so that the zerg doesn't get to the late game". But that doesn't take away from Brood lords being overpowered (if they were, dont burn me). Also, 21 / 94 champions being unused is actually pretty significant to me. There are ~40 combat units in starcraft and if 8-9 units were unused that would be pretty extreme. There is a reason why so many people say "we never see Carriers / Battlecruisers / Ultralisks (to a lesser extent) / Ravens in games! buff them!" and perhaps that might be similar to LoL. And those people that think underused units should be buffed are dumb for various reasons. Just like how BW went through a decade of various shifts in trends and strategical discoveries, which were often incredibly significant, LoL goes through the same cycles. There are various units that are simply not used in certain matchups in BW but this doesn't detract from the fact that the game is incredibly balanced and here we're seriously talking about a decade old game. With LoL we're talking about a very young game with so much unexplored that the fact that 21/94 champs not being used really has no significance to me, considering how certain champions have been considered to be garbage one month, and suddenly the next month they're the new trendy champion that people moan about being overpowered or some nonsense. It took a long time for someone to win with carriers in the new BW proleague season, and in general carriers are very underused nowadays. But that doesn't mean that there's an innate problem with the unit design. There are very good reasons why battlecruisers aren't used in TvP. Queens were considered to be a fairly garbage unit for pretty much a decade before Zerg players really started to grasp when and how to use them with great effect. idk, there's way too many factors, and way too many people are far too naive or ignorant about this, not to mention just flat out retarded.
Yes because the blatant lack of attempt to test tgeir once a month new heroes makes it great from a competitive perspective or a gamr design. And don't give me that ooo they will balance it later they literally pull something out of their ass and release it and balsnce it like 2 months later after everyone had adapted to the retarded thing they let loose i.e fiora parry broken after 3 Weeks after release still. Dota 2 will forever make lol look like a child's game. Deny fucking creeps riot.
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I would think league would have more players than sc2 considering its 60 dollars cheaper right?
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On March 15 2012 10:45 kamkerx wrote:
I would think league would have more players than sc2 considering its 60 dollars cheaper right?
Most people that play LoL have spent much more than 60$ on LoL
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On March 15 2012 10:37 PhiliBiRD wrote:
SC2 ranked #18th!!?!?! Holy crap.
i recently began playing LoL because its a much more casual game and easy to play, but from a spectator point of view, the game is FAR from close to entertaining as SC2
oh yea, i blame blizz... for shit bnet, shit 'esports team' and shit support for the community(LAN/etc)
it's primarily the shitty battle.net that has been doing the community in
back in the day when you had all those features everyone has been clamoring for, you could develop a real sense of community in blizzard's games like what you get in MMOs and such
when was the last time you opened SC2 just to hang out? i never did. look at all the work valve has put into dota2's things to do outside of actually playing a game. SC2 has none of that, and without the right environment for socializing a community can't last beyond the most diehard fans regardless of the actual merits of the game's play.
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On March 15 2012 10:30 MaestroSC wrote:
Saying dumb crap like "its too easy" "its boring" "its not good to watch" "its not competitive" is a joke when it pulls better numbers than any other esport currently.... seriously some of the posts on here are completely ludicrous garbage writting by self-righteous self-centered windbags.
you can't argue with just numbers.
wow also had big numbers (really big), everyone said it's bad to watch, and where is wow now ?
lols big advantage is that it's free, more accessible and prob more fun than wow.
but it's still bad to spectate.
and if you want to argue only with numbers you could also say britney spears makes better music than anything below her sales.
On March 15 2012 10:30 HeavenS wrote:
in sc2 you have to wait like 15 minutes for the action to start, while both players try and max because theyre afraid of committing to early agression and losing it all.
you clearly watched the wrong games or you didn't observed properly.
most games are quite action packed.
zvp might be the only one that is quite dull.
yes bw was better, but sc2 is still action packed.
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Man, I wish SC2 will eventually rival BW's numbers. Seeing games like League of Legends take over in place of the heir to the throne, it makes my heart turn inside out. =(
Really, Can sc2 survive without Korea? Is there any way to get SC2 big in korea, for example OSL? perhaps it would take the big named brood war players, but even then. Maybe HoTS all BW pros switch, and then it gets some notoreity. I just hope for the best.
Not hating on LoL, but many people will agree as a spectator sport, it just is very boring to watch. Same way SC2 is compared to bw. 
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On March 15 2012 09:49 SlaTe87 wrote:
okay lets come to a conclusion...blizzard needs to fix their marketing or their product sc2 is dying.
This and community integration, which is horrible honestly.
I really feel when I ladder that I'm a man alone playing with some unfeeling entity a match. No connection what so ever. No promoting sharing at all, unadequate chat , no team support , etc. the list goes on.
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I got into LoL back during the SC2 beta, particularly when the sc2 beta went down. Like most other people said, it is a nice break from the intensity of SC2 when played at a reasonable level. I always felt that the INDIVIDUAL skill cap for LoL was relatively low, but the team skill cap was pretty high. The problem is, most players will never even get to glimpse that team skill cap, or any sort of real team cohesion because most people play in random games. There will almost always be AT LEAST 1 idiot that ruins the game for 9 other people, so that the competition is largely a farce. This is why I always go back to SC2, I'm tired of the random team format deciding whether I win or lose before I even play. If I lose, I want it to be me. If I win, I want it to be something I can control.
As a side note, I got a Dota 2 beta key, and literally haven't touched LoL since. The only things LoL has going for it is the Dominion thing, which isn't terribly balanced, it is just a faster way to play, and the fact that it is free. If Dota 2 is free or really cheap, I honestly don't see how LoL will survive. It is just a better moba (although it still suffers from the same issue as above).
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LoL is a perfectly fine game to be making it as the #1 esport. It will dominate sc2 easily because bnet cannot retain any of the casual base, and the expansions will only give a momentary burst and then it will die back down again (assuming blizzard does not fix bnet).
To the people who say LoL is "easier" than HoN, Dota, or even sc2 simply have no clue about competition in general. When you reach a certain skill level in any form of competition, the game itself becomes completely irrelevant. It is no longer about the game but the players and thats all there is to it. As long as the competition has a level of depth (nowadays most games offer almost infinite possibilities and have massive depth), it will always be a battle of wits and dexterity between players. The game is ONLY a medium for that. However for attracting a casual base who will support and watch LoL excels the most out of any game atm, and not only that but it has over 11 million people. Sure most of those people are young, casual, and in general bad. However once you reach the top its all the same, in every sport, in every game, in every competition. People who do not understand this make ignorant comments claiming one game is easier than another. I do not remember who, but there were some top dota players who commented in this thread stating reasons that LoL is "easier", for example : you cannot deny creeps. This was interesting to read because not being able to deny creeps means, the game is less mechanical, and more strategic (the same way sc2 is to bw). Now zoning becomes important to deny creeps, something I believe is a lot harder than just clicking on enemy creeps.
tldr; people should stop supporting their moba of choice with ignorant and elitist comments, when at the highest level its all the same
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As a bw elitist, skimming through this thread makes me want to try LoL.
Let"s note I know many more people playing LoL than SC2, and quite a few who like watching it.
I don't really care about esport growth, but if it helps OGN sustain itself better, I'll be happy about it.
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I'm scared that the success of LoL is going to drive BLizzard and other companies to emulate the uber-casualness of their future games (even more so than they did with sc2). Remember the movie Idiocracy? Things might get dumbed down even more........
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The only reason why LOL is huge is because the game is free, I work at an internet cafe and everyone here plays League of Legends (all of them lvl 30), all of these gamers were casual gamers, this is the first game they play something seriously, almost all of them never knew DOTA or didn't even knew that games can be streamed live.
I can assure none of these people will ever know LoL if the game wasn't free, like HoN before. I know this because here we had bring good games but they havent touched them at all (like SC2 or BF:BC2) prefering free games like Flyff O.o (except for L4D). Here were I live I have seen this big boom of LOL and as far as I know almost all of the player base are console gamers or casual gamers, I think there is a big difference from a player base like that vs a one like CS, BW or a newer one like SC2.
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EPT
