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On March 15 2012 10:54 Grampz wrote:Man, I wish SC2 will eventually rival BW's numbers. Seeing games like League of Legends take over in place of the heir to the throne, it makes my heart turn inside out. =( Really, Can sc2 survive without Korea? Is there any way to get SC2 big in korea, for example OSL? perhaps it would take the big named brood war players, but even then. Maybe HoTS all BW pros switch, and then it gets some notoreity. I just hope for the best. Not hating on LoL, but many people will agree as a spectator sport, it just is very boring to watch. Same way SC2 is compared to bw. 
See, I get where you're coming from, but think about it a little more. Maybe a lot of people don't like LoL as a spectator sport, but *clearly* even more people believe the opposite. And you can ascribe whatever reason you want to why that is (f2p, casual, etc.), but this tendency for people to just say "LoL is boring to watch, everybody knows this" is a serious fallacy and doesn't really help make your point at all. It just makes you look bitter.
That being said, BW > SC2 and LoL to watch. Everybody knows this. =p
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On March 15 2012 11:15 Celestia wrote:
The only reason why LOL is huge is because the game is free, I work at an internet cafe and everyone here plays League of Legends (all of them lvl 30), all of these gamers were casual gamers, this is the first game they play something seriously, almost all of them never knew DOTA or didn't even knew that games can be streamed live.
I can assure none of these people will ever know LoL if the game wasn't free, like HoN before. I know this because here we had bring good games but they havent touched them at all (like SC2 or BF:BC2) prefering free games like Flyff O.o (except for L4D). Here were I live I have seen this big boom of LOL and as far as I know almost all of the player base are console gamers or casual gamers, I think there is a big difference from a player base like that vs a one like CS, BW or a newer one like SC2.
Right, because almost all of the SC2, BW, and CS playerbase is not casual, they're all pros.
Right?
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On March 15 2012 11:15 Celestia wrote:
The only reason why LOL is huge is because the game is free, I work at an internet cafe and everyone here plays League of Legends (all of them lvl 30), all of these gamers were casual gamers, this is the first game they play something seriously, almost all of them never knew DOTA or didn't even knew that games can be streamed live.
I can assure none of these people will ever know LoL if the game wasn't free, like HoN before. I know this because here we had bring good games but they havent touched them at all (like SC2 or BF:BC2) prefering free games like Flyff O.o (except for L4D). Here were I live I have seen this big boom of LOL and as far as I know almost all of the player base are console gamers or casual gamers, I think there is a big difference from a player base like that vs a one like CS, BW or a newer one like SC2.
Your point? That has been brought up numerous times. Yes it may be a big part of it but who cares. LoL is big and its making a lot of money and garnering a lot of interest in the competitive scene.
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On March 15 2012 10:54 Grampz wrote:Man, I wish SC2 will eventually rival BW's numbers. Seeing games like League of Legends take over in place of the heir to the throne, it makes my heart turn inside out. =( Really, Can sc2 survive without Korea? Is there any way to get SC2 big in korea, for example OSL? perhaps it would take the big named brood war players, but even then. Maybe HoTS all BW pros switch, and then it gets some notoreity. I just hope for the best. Not hating on LoL, but many people will agree as a spectator sport, it just is very boring to watch. Same way SC2 is compared to bw.
I agree, sometimes it is very boring too watch, but so is some sc2 matches. Sometimes LoL games are really good.
Here is just my opinion on LoL. I love the game, started playing it about a year ago after sudden attack and sc2. The thing that makes LoL great is Riot. They're just the new blizzard or valve. They love their customers and do everything they can too make the community happy. The competitive scene has came a long way. It use too be 40 to 1 hour long games and now it's 25-35mins. They sped up the game and do a good job at balancing the game. They listen too the community and the overall interaction with the fan base is insane. No other company is better too their community, which is why i believe the game has grown so rapidly over the past year.
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I'll be honest. I enjoy playing and watching LoL over SC2 now. I used to get hyped up when a tournament was going on. The recent SC2 tournament that was in Hanover, I didn't watch one single match. My eyes stayed on LoL. To say its not competitive is silly. You can clearly see great teams (m5 and dig) destroy other teams.
I believe LoL is better because of the team play and strategy it requires to be competitive. Also, SC2 is bad for my fingers! LoL i push 3-4 buttons and a few clicks!
Edit: One of the reasons why I don't watch SC2 games often is because I REALLY dislike most of the "pro" casters.
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On March 15 2012 11:04 biology]major wrote:
LoL is a perfectly fine game to be making it as the #1 esport. It will dominate sc2 easily because bnet cannot retain any of the casual base, and the expansions will only give a momentary burst and then it will die back down again (assuming blizzard does not fix bnet).
To the people who say LoL is "easier" than HoN, Dota, or even sc2 simply have no clue about competition in general. When you reach a certain skill level in any form of competition, the game itself becomes completely irrelevant. It is no longer about the game but the players and thats all there is to it. As long as the competition has a level of depth (nowadays most games offer almost infinite possibilities and have massive depth), it will always be a battle of wits and dexterity between players. The game is ONLY a medium for that. However for attracting a casual base who will support and watch LoL excels the most out of any game atm, and not only that but it has over 11 million people. Sure most of those people are young, casual, and in general bad. However once you reach the top its all the same, in every sport, in every game, in every competition. People who do not understand this make ignorant comments claiming one game is easier than another. I do not remember who, but there were some top dota players who commented in this thread stating reasons that LoL is "easier", for example : you cannot deny creeps. This was interesting to read because not being able to deny creeps means, the game is less mechanical, and more strategic (the same way sc2 is to bw). Now zoning becomes important to deny creeps, something I believe is a lot harder than just clicking on enemy creeps.
tldr; people should stop supporting their moba of choice with ignorant and elitist comments, when at the highest level its all the same
Do you mean zoning as in driving the enemy out of exp range?
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On March 15 2012 11:30 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 11:04 biology]major wrote:
LoL is a perfectly fine game to be making it as the #1 esport. It will dominate sc2 easily because bnet cannot retain any of the casual base, and the expansions will only give a momentary burst and then it will die back down again (assuming blizzard does not fix bnet).
To the people who say LoL is "easier" than HoN, Dota, or even sc2 simply have no clue about competition in general. When you reach a certain skill level in any form of competition, the game itself becomes completely irrelevant. It is no longer about the game but the players and thats all there is to it. As long as the competition has a level of depth (nowadays most games offer almost infinite possibilities and have massive depth), it will always be a battle of wits and dexterity between players. The game is ONLY a medium for that. However for attracting a casual base who will support and watch LoL excels the most out of any game atm, and not only that but it has over 11 million people. Sure most of those people are young, casual, and in general bad. However once you reach the top its all the same, in every sport, in every game, in every competition. People who do not understand this make ignorant comments claiming one game is easier than another. I do not remember who, but there were some top dota players who commented in this thread stating reasons that LoL is "easier", for example : you cannot deny creeps. This was interesting to read because not being able to deny creeps means, the game is less mechanical, and more strategic (the same way sc2 is to bw). Now zoning becomes important to deny creeps, something I believe is a lot harder than just clicking on enemy creeps.
tldr; people should stop supporting their moba of choice with ignorant and elitist comments, when at the highest level its all the same Do you mean zoning as in driving the enemy out of exp range?
no, as in you zone so that the enemy cannot actually last hit, at least not without being punished
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Canada13407 Posts
Give it time lets see what happens. I always was of the opinion that LoL while ok was kinda dumbed down I mean I've been trying DotA2 and it just feels a lot more fun, much less people spamming abilities and others dieing.
But we can't forget its a free game, so all the young kids are going to be playing it. Of course its being played in PC bangs more often, its a team game and people can play together for free. Further -- sc2 doesn't have lan so there is no benefit to playing it with friends locally and it costs money.
For the people who are hung up on LoL vs SC2 in PC Bangs argument anyway.
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Blizzard must make a move right now :D
Seriously LoL is a boring game in my opinion, DotA 1 is even better and fun to play.
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On March 14 2012 21:55 darkscream wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:23 GreyKnight wrote:On March 14 2012 20:21 darkscream wrote:
The problem with free games like LoL is that they can lose popularity just as fast as they gained it. And while it's great that Riot puts so much money back into the tournament scene, they do that because they need to buy loyalty from their players - otherwise they will just switch to the next good free game, or even the next MOBA game. They know they need to build a strong foundation because DOTA2 and Blizz DOTA will hit them like an earthquake.
edit: not to mention, kotaku is gawker so their opinion on ESPORTS is about as valuable dirt. DOTA isn't going to do shit to LoL in korea. Lots of evidence backing up your statement. Not. A year ago people would have said LoL won't do shit to starcraft in korea. Things change, and the only reason the koreans are so interested is because of the money, and the money is only there because Riot keeps selling new skins and heroes. If people eventually get bored of buying a new character every few weeks then the tournament prize money will dry up. It really depends entirely on how long Riot can milk microtransactions - although I will admit at this point it looks like there's a lot of milk left in that particular cow. Pro-gamers go where the money is. Heck, even Diablo 3 could destroy LoL in terms of active players, even though diablo3 won't even be an e-sport, just because of the potential cash flow from the real-money auction house.
This is right on the money.
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I don't know how people actually say some of the crap they do in this thread.
I can say the same thing about BW or SC2. Oh it is so casual, I play fastest map possible or I just play custom games with friends. Sure LoL has a low baseline to get into playing the game (it is free after all). but it takes just as much work and as much dedication to be the best LoL team as it takes for people to be considered one of the best Starcraft 2 or BW player. Sure, the other games might have a bigger theoretical skill-cap, but the team aspect of LoL adds another layer to the complexity.
I would love if the people that haven't played it and are suggested that it is easy and casual to message me when they install it and then message me again when you hit 1800-2k elo.
The reason that LoL is so popular is due to a few things:
1. Riot actually supports the game, puts up nice prize pools and links to big tournament streams in the first window that comes up when you open LoL.
2. You can play it casually or competitively and have social interaction. Battlenet .2 interface and menus don't really encourage a vibrant community.
3. Free to play game with the ability to purchase champions and extra stuff with cash. Allows poor HS/College students to try it out without having to drop 60 dollars on a game. This is also the case for poor people in foreign countries with low computer specs.
4. Because of number 3, there is a big base of people who play the game who also like to watch it. I used to think it was boring to watch as well, but after I got into playing the game and learning about the teams, strategy, etc...it opened my eyes to an exciting spectator experience.
Just another minor rant. Why do we have to hate on other games? We are all gamers, we all want to see Esports grow and become an industry that allows people to enjoy it. I switched from SC2 into LoL and I'm sure some other people switched from LoL and got addicted to SC2/Day 9/SOTG. We should all prop each other up and be happy that games are becoming more accessible. Sure the more popular games might have a lower bar for people playing casually, but even TF2, LoL and many other "casual" games have a competitive high level scene that take skill to be the best.
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At least foreigners can at least beat Koreans at something...
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I love that Blizzard is now losing hard to Riot/LoL because during the SC2 development I was banned from their bnet forums for warning them they were about to make the mistakes we now all accept they made.
Revenge is sweet for sure.
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There you go Blizzard...hope your fancy SC2 plane can save you now. Riot seems to be doing something smart.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 15 2012 12:08 publicenemies wrote:
At least foreigners can at least beat Koreans at something...
We will see how long that goes. Korea client just launched recently...so the foreign players had plenty of time to put them in the dust. I'm sure they will catch up eventually.
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I am not surprised at all.
LoL has huge amounts of money in it.
LoL is extremely easy to play/learn compared to SC2.
People want easy money, and will definitely play easier games to get it.
Why spend all your time playing SC2 or Broodwar for money, when you can play games like Modern Warfare 'competitively, in this case LoL (little harder, lot more money).
Pretty easy to see why it's going #1.
edit: Honestly, I see this as a good thing. Competition keeps these companies on their toes. If Blizzard doesn't want to get stepped on, in an embarrassing fashion - they'll start doing things faster/better, and what they should have been doing already.
Why do you think WoW hasnt improved much? No competition, when WarhammerO came out, they actually tried to improve PvP/World PvP.
I hope League of Legends takes #1, maybe itl spark a fire under Blizzards ass, because no matter how any other game fairs, SC2 will still be watched and played for a long time.
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Quite sad to see because I believe SC2 could have dominated the esports scene if it was done properly (more fun and balanced units, better social features etc =/)
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Its a fun more casual and freaken free game. How is this even surprising?
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On March 15 2012 11:37 ZeromuS wrote:
Give it time lets see what happens. I always was of the opinion that LoL while ok was kinda dumbed down I mean I've been trying DotA2 and it just feels a lot more fun, much less people spamming abilities and others dieing.
But we can't forget its a free game, so all the young kids are going to be playing it. Of course its being played in PC bangs more often, its a team game and people can play together for free. Further -- sc2 doesn't have lan so there is no benefit to playing it with friends locally and it costs money.
For the people who are hung up on LoL vs SC2 in PC Bangs argument anyway.
SC2 never found competition in PC Bangs compared to games like LoL or BW.
We have a clear winner!
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On March 15 2012 12:15 v3chr0 wrote:
I am not surprised at all.
LoL has huge amounts of money in it.
LoL is extremely easy to play/learn compared to SC2.
People want easy money, and will definitely play easier games to get it.
Why spend all your time playing SC2 or Broodwar for money, when you can play games like Modern Warfare 'competitively, in this case LoL (little harder, lot more money).
Pretty easy to see why it's going #1.
I agree with the huge amounts of money...it is expected with how many people play the game.
It is easier to get into due to F2P model, but both games have mechanics, strategy and LoL has the added complexity of needing 5 people working together.
How is it easier money if more people play it? I will agree that it is more money, but I would love to see you get 5 people together and actually win a tournament in LoL. Some games will be harder mechanically, but suggesting that one game is more difficult than another...especially with how many variables both games have...it pretty absurd.
No worries, I'm sure most people in this thread will ass kiss the game they are currently playing instead of realizing that being the best at almost any game takes a ton of work and dedication.
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EPT
