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On March 15 2012 11:21 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 11:15 Celestia wrote:
The only reason why LOL is huge is because the game is free, I work at an internet cafe and everyone here plays League of Legends (all of them lvl 30), all of these gamers were casual gamers, this is the first game they play something seriously, almost all of them never knew DOTA or didn't even knew that games can be streamed live.
I can assure none of these people will ever know LoL if the game wasn't free, like HoN before. I know this because here we had bring good games but they havent touched them at all (like SC2 or BF:BC2) prefering free games like Flyff O.o (except for L4D). Here were I live I have seen this big boom of LOL and as far as I know almost all of the player base are console gamers or casual gamers, I think there is a big difference from a player base like that vs a one like CS, BW or a newer one like SC2. Right, because almost all of the SC2, BW, and CS playerbase is not casual, they're all pros. Right?
Wrong, but the vast majority of SC2 players are people who have played SC:BW and/or WC3, have heard that professional eSports exists in this world, and have learned that they can actually look up pro guides and watch live pro matches.
Most LoL players have some knowledge, and a whole lot of them went to LoL because of the hype they heard after playing DotA and after not liking HoN, but there is a huge amount of people that just play because some guy said "hey, play this with me, it's free".
Not to go away from the fact that there are players who buy SC2 to play campaign and custom games and never play a single ladder game ever, but the difference is pretty big.
And not like I think this is even a valid issue.. It isn't relevant to this topic at all. Just disagreeing with your disagreement.
I don't think LoL will ever be as popular as SC2 or SC:BW... I don't even think LoL will reach the same level that DotA 2 will, but I do think that the majority of moba gamers will play LoL and DotA 2, and forget Blizzard DotA and HoN (and DotA...). LoL is a fun game with bonus skills (more buttons to press = more fun), and DotA 2 will bring in a bigger professional scene, and thus more revenue and more spectators, but not necessarily more "players". People will play LoL and DotA 2, while also playing SC2 and/or other games, whereas people who play those other games won't all play LoL and/or DotA 2.
If you see what I'm saying here..
All of the above are my educated opinions, don't take anything too seriously.
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A lot of people are not covering the main point as to why LOL is #1 in Korea right now.
Let's dissect this issue. The possible reason why LOL is #1 in Korea is simply because the game is "free". Many Koreans actually never even owned a copy of Brood War. It was the Fish, Brain, and other free servers which allowed Koreans to download and play StarCraft: Brood War without the use of a CD Key. The other fact is that Pro League is starting up a League for LOL which means:
1. Organized events and tournaments with sponsorships
2. Pro Gaming Teams, salaries and Licenses (Which is what SC2 is lacking)
3. Big Prize Money
4. A governing body (Kespa) which manages, monitors, plans, and formulates any and every action regarding the game. (The #1 Thing SC2 is missing this and licenses).
LOL is also user friendly which means that it's not as frustrating when you lose and if you do, you could always blame it on your teammates 
I'm sure my post isn't complete so don't criticize me for it. Just sharing some possible points as to why it's #1.
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On March 15 2012 12:37 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 11:21 Praetorial wrote:On March 15 2012 11:15 Celestia wrote:
The only reason why LOL is huge is because the game is free, I work at an internet cafe and everyone here plays League of Legends (all of them lvl 30), all of these gamers were casual gamers, this is the first game they play something seriously, almost all of them never knew DOTA or didn't even knew that games can be streamed live.
I can assure none of these people will ever know LoL if the game wasn't free, like HoN before. I know this because here we had bring good games but they havent touched them at all (like SC2 or BF:BC2) prefering free games like Flyff O.o (except for L4D). Here were I live I have seen this big boom of LOL and as far as I know almost all of the player base are console gamers or casual gamers, I think there is a big difference from a player base like that vs a one like CS, BW or a newer one like SC2. Right, because almost all of the SC2, BW, and CS playerbase is not casual, they're all pros. Right? Wrong, but the vast majority of SC2 players are people who have played SC:BW and/or WC3, have heard that professional eSports exists in this world, and have learned that they can actually look up pro guides and watch live pro matches. Most LoL players have some knowledge, and a whole lot of them went to LoL because of the hype they heard after playing DotA and after not liking HoN, but there is a huge amount of people that just play because some guy said "hey, play this with me, it's free". Not to go away from the fact that there are players who buy SC2 to play campaign and custom games and never play a single ladder game ever, but the difference is pretty big. And not like I think this is even a valid issue.. It isn't relevant to this topic at all. Just disagreeing with your disagreement. I don't think LoL will ever be as popular as SC2 or SC:BW... I don't even think LoL will reach the same level that DotA 2 will, but I do think that the majority of moba gamers will play LoL and DotA 2, and forget Blizzard DotA and HoN (and DotA...). LoL is a fun game with bonus skills (more buttons to press = more fun), and DotA 2 will bring in a bigger professional scene, and thus more revenue and more spectators, but not necessarily more "players". People will play LoL and DotA 2, while also playing SC2 and/or other games, whereas people who play those other games won't all play LoL and/or DotA 2. If you see what I'm saying here.. All of the above are my educated opinions, don't take anything too seriously.
Well LoL have already overtaken SC2 and SC:BW in the foreign market and its beating SC2 by miles in Korea and rivaling BW. So there goes the majority of your argument.
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On March 15 2012 12:10 Miyoshino wrote:
I love that Blizzard is now losing hard to Riot/LoL because during the SC2 development I was banned from their bnet forums for warning them they were about to make the mistakes we now all accept they made.
Revenge is sweet for sure.
I was flamed, warned and banned numerous times when I was trying to say sc2 will eventually die because it sucks.
Yeaaah, revenge is totally sweet 
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This is actually a good thing. Now blizzard will actually have to work to make starcraft 2 a good game like sc1!
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On March 15 2012 12:44 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 12:10 Miyoshino wrote:
I love that Blizzard is now losing hard to Riot/LoL because during the SC2 development I was banned from their bnet forums for warning them they were about to make the mistakes we now all accept they made.
Revenge is sweet for sure. I was flamed, warned and banned numerous times when I was trying to say sc2 will eventually die because it sucks. Yeaaah, revenge is totally sweet
They really should have just used Brood War as the model for the game, improved the graphics, added new units and come to terms of agreement with KeSpa instead of trying to remodel the game as a way of showing everybody "Oh, we can make another master piece" which in turn failed. Brood War was something that magically unfolded. Blizzard didn't intentionally make the game so that terran could block with Barracks and Supply depot or that recall would be used as an offensive spell rather then a defensive spell. I don't think SC2 will ever be famous in Korea and my reason for that is simply because of the price of the game and the price of the future expansions. I'm not saying that Koreans are broke or anything but I've played Brood War for a long time and I have a lot of friends in Korea who always say that they don't want to spend money on games. Not even for a $10 copy of brood war.
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On March 15 2012 12:44 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 12:10 Miyoshino wrote:
I love that Blizzard is now losing hard to Riot/LoL because during the SC2 development I was banned from their bnet forums for warning them they were about to make the mistakes we now all accept they made.
Revenge is sweet for sure. I was flamed, warned and banned numerous times when I was trying to say sc2 will eventually die because it sucks. Yeaaah, revenge is totally sweet
I think you are getting banned because you don't provide any argument to WHY it sucks. TL actually likes when people don't say random hyperbolic crap without atleast giving honest reasons and points to why you feel that way.
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One of the reasons why it is dying in korea is because its sooo easy compared to brood war. When you listen to the commentators, you hear them saying, "oh those forcefields" "oh those fungals" "oh those emps". Sc2 is so easy that casters are hyping things that are easy to make it sound hard. In korea, they are so used to the difficult mechanics of broodwar that sc2 controls are like a joke to them especially since korean are so exposed to brood war with it being on tv. So why would they NOT support a new game, instead of a game that is inferior to its predecessor?
And I agree with the fact that its because its free, free means more viewers, more viewers means more sponsors. Whether you like it or not , a game receive sponsors not base on its skill level, but its popularity. If a game is more popular, more people will sponsor it, because there you gain more promotion with more viewers. Blizzard really screwed that up by not supporting the sc2 competitive scene and even trying to take money from them
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On March 15 2012 12:24 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 12:15 v3chr0 wrote:
I am not surprised at all.
LoL has huge amounts of money in it.
LoL is extremely easy to play/learn compared to SC2.
People want easy money, and will definitely play easier games to get it.
Why spend all your time playing SC2 or Broodwar for money, when you can play games like Modern Warfare 'competitively, in this case LoL (little harder, lot more money).
Pretty easy to see why it's going #1.
I agree with the huge amounts of money...it is expected with how many people play the game. It is easier to get into due to F2P model, but both games have mechanics, strategy and LoL has the added complexity of needing 5 people working together. How is it easier money if more people play it? I will agree that it is more money, but I would love to see you get 5 people together and actually win a tournament in LoL. Some games will be harder mechanically, but suggesting that one game is more difficult than another...especially with how many variables both games have...it pretty absurd. No worries, I'm sure most people in this thread will ass kiss the game they are currently playing instead of realizing that being the best at almost any game takes a ton of work and dedication.
The number of people playing hardly has anything to do with it, maybe more people will be pros, but that still doesn't matter too much. If there's 15,000,000 playing LoL, and the Tournament only takes 100 people, 100 is the only number that has any significance.
Have you played LoL, and have you played Starcraft2 or Broodwar? The difference between each in terms of skill ceiling/difficulty are very clear.
I have played all 3, and it's apparent how much less you have to manage/know in LoL compared to Starcraft/2.
It's an easier game, without any doubt, is it easy at a competitive level? no. Is it easier than Starcraft2/BW, definitely.
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On March 15 2012 13:11 v3chr0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 12:24 Demonace34 wrote:On March 15 2012 12:15 v3chr0 wrote:
I am not surprised at all.
LoL has huge amounts of money in it.
LoL is extremely easy to play/learn compared to SC2.
People want easy money, and will definitely play easier games to get it.
Why spend all your time playing SC2 or Broodwar for money, when you can play games like Modern Warfare 'competitively, in this case LoL (little harder, lot more money).
Pretty easy to see why it's going #1.
I agree with the huge amounts of money...it is expected with how many people play the game. It is easier to get into due to F2P model, but both games have mechanics, strategy and LoL has the added complexity of needing 5 people working together. How is it easier money if more people play it? I will agree that it is more money, but I would love to see you get 5 people together and actually win a tournament in LoL. Some games will be harder mechanically, but suggesting that one game is more difficult than another...especially with how many variables both games have...it pretty absurd. No worries, I'm sure most people in this thread will ass kiss the game they are currently playing instead of realizing that being the best at almost any game takes a ton of work and dedication. The number of people playing hardly has anything to do with it, maybe more people will be pros, but that still doesn't matter too much. If there's 15,000,000 playing LoL, and the Tournament only takes 100 people, 100 is the only number that has any significance. Have you played LoL, and have you played Starcraft2 or Broodwar? The difference between each in terms of skill ceiling/difficulty are very clear. I have played all 3, and it's apparent how much less you have to manage/know in LoL compared to Starcraft/2. It's an easier game, without any doubt, is it easy at a competitive level? no. Is it easier than Starcraft2/BW, definitely.
It's mechanically easier, for sure. The thing is, so what? It's obvious that, at least, Koreans don't care if it's relatively easier than certain other games.
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On March 15 2012 13:11 v3chr0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 12:24 Demonace34 wrote:On March 15 2012 12:15 v3chr0 wrote:
I am not surprised at all.
LoL has huge amounts of money in it.
LoL is extremely easy to play/learn compared to SC2.
People want easy money, and will definitely play easier games to get it.
Why spend all your time playing SC2 or Broodwar for money, when you can play games like Modern Warfare 'competitively, in this case LoL (little harder, lot more money).
Pretty easy to see why it's going #1.
I agree with the huge amounts of money...it is expected with how many people play the game. It is easier to get into due to F2P model, but both games have mechanics, strategy and LoL has the added complexity of needing 5 people working together. How is it easier money if more people play it? I will agree that it is more money, but I would love to see you get 5 people together and actually win a tournament in LoL. Some games will be harder mechanically, but suggesting that one game is more difficult than another...especially with how many variables both games have...it pretty absurd. No worries, I'm sure most people in this thread will ass kiss the game they are currently playing instead of realizing that being the best at almost any game takes a ton of work and dedication. The number of people playing hardly has anything to do with it, maybe more people will be pros, but that still doesn't matter too much. If there's 15,000,000 playing LoL, and the Tournament only takes 100 people, 100 is the only number that has any significance. Have you played LoL, and have you played Starcraft2 or Broodwar? The difference between each in terms of skill ceiling/difficulty are very clear. I have played all 3, and it's apparent how much less you have to manage/know in LoL compared to Starcraft/2. It's an easier game, without any doubt, is it easy at a competitive level? no. Is it easier than Starcraft2/BW, definitely.
So, according to you if we take best 5 sc2 players and create LoL team they will dominate everybody, right?
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It's a fun game to play (although I prefer HoN in the genre), but not as fun to watch imo.
They get viewers from having a live stream in the game interface whenever tournaments are on, so obviously people are gonna click the button to see what's up.
The fans of starcraft actively search for streams etc. That's a huge difference.
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On March 15 2012 13:16 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 13:11 v3chr0 wrote:On March 15 2012 12:24 Demonace34 wrote:On March 15 2012 12:15 v3chr0 wrote:
I am not surprised at all.
LoL has huge amounts of money in it.
LoL is extremely easy to play/learn compared to SC2.
People want easy money, and will definitely play easier games to get it.
Why spend all your time playing SC2 or Broodwar for money, when you can play games like Modern Warfare 'competitively, in this case LoL (little harder, lot more money).
Pretty easy to see why it's going #1.
I agree with the huge amounts of money...it is expected with how many people play the game. It is easier to get into due to F2P model, but both games have mechanics, strategy and LoL has the added complexity of needing 5 people working together. How is it easier money if more people play it? I will agree that it is more money, but I would love to see you get 5 people together and actually win a tournament in LoL. Some games will be harder mechanically, but suggesting that one game is more difficult than another...especially with how many variables both games have...it pretty absurd. No worries, I'm sure most people in this thread will ass kiss the game they are currently playing instead of realizing that being the best at almost any game takes a ton of work and dedication. The number of people playing hardly has anything to do with it, maybe more people will be pros, but that still doesn't matter too much. If there's 15,000,000 playing LoL, and the Tournament only takes 100 people, 100 is the only number that has any significance. Have you played LoL, and have you played Starcraft2 or Broodwar? The difference between each in terms of skill ceiling/difficulty are very clear. I have played all 3, and it's apparent how much less you have to manage/know in LoL compared to Starcraft/2. It's an easier game, without any doubt, is it easy at a competitive level? no. Is it easier than Starcraft2/BW, definitely. So, according to you if we take best 5 sc2 players and create LoL team they will dominate everybody, right?
I never said that. LoL is a different game entirely, you can't just switch over, but the learning curve is easier, was that not clear?... you can find people however who would argue that BW pros would dominate SC2, so how does that work out, according to you.
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On March 15 2012 13:16 Euronyme wrote:
It's a fun game to play (although I prefer HoN in the genre), but not as fun to watch imo.
They get viewers from having a live stream in the game interface whenever tournaments are on, so obviously people are gonna click the button to see what's up.
The fans of starcraft actively search for streams etc. That's a huge difference.
Is that supposed to be an insult to LoL.
Riot cares about the competitive scene and does its best to spread it! Good thing Blizzard does exactly the opposite!
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On March 15 2012 12:44 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 12:10 Miyoshino wrote:
I love that Blizzard is now losing hard to Riot/LoL because during the SC2 development I was banned from their bnet forums for warning them they were about to make the mistakes we now all accept they made.
Revenge is sweet for sure. I was flamed, warned and banned numerous times when I was trying to say sc2 will eventually die because it sucks. Yeaaah, revenge is totally sweet
/highfive
=)
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More people will play LoL. More people will watch SC2.
LoL can enjoy a huge playerbase, and can therefore host many tournaments. But none of the tournaments are going to have that GSL-level of viewership. None of the LoL players are going to command as much respect as the top SC2 players.
In the end, SC2 is just a much harder, and much more by-the-numbers game. You don't have a roster of variously imba champs, you don't have a team, you just have your race. All the talent you see in SC2 -- the strategy, mind-games, multi-tasking, etc. -- is just so much more obscured in LoL. There's just much more depth to a game like SC2, and it's obvious to see. LoL is a great game and a skill game, but it makes for an extremely dull e-sport.
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On March 15 2012 13:16 Euronyme wrote:
It's a fun game to play (although I prefer HoN in the genre), but not as fun to watch imo.
They get viewers from having a live stream in the game interface whenever tournaments are on, so obviously people are gonna click the button to see what's up.
The fans of starcraft actively search for streams etc. That's a huge difference.
Nah, I don't think the imply of tourney stream in LoL client has that huge impact in LoL viewers. Just take a look at LoL streamers. They can pull a 20k quite often and normally have like 8k-12k viewers compare to 2k-5k of a well known SC2 players. Some can pull nearly 10k in SC2 but thats very rare.
LoL just has a much large player base than SC2 thats all.
Man, I don't know why I keep coming back to this silly SC2 vs LoL discussion.
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On March 15 2012 13:16 Euronyme wrote:
It's a fun game to play (although I prefer HoN in the genre), but not as fun to watch imo.
They get viewers from having a live stream in the game interface whenever tournaments are on, so obviously people are gonna click the button to see what's up.
The fans of starcraft actively search for streams etc. That's a huge difference.
Oh well seems that legend will never die.
LoL has constantly higher viewer numbers than sc2. Roughly about 3 times as much that wach the daily streams. Completely independant of any support by Riot.
Also, imo LoL watchers have to search their streams more actively than sc2 watchers. Simply because they dont have a great site like TL that gives a perfect overview of streams and tournaments. Just look what kind of viewer numbers sc2 streams have if they are not featured on TL.
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sad days... prolly the end of real skill.
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On March 15 2012 13:24 Leporello wrote:
More people will play LoL. More people will watch SC2.
LoL can enjoy a huge playerbase, and can therefore host many tournaments. But none of the tournaments are going to have that GSL-level of viewership. None of the LoL players are going to command as much respect as the top SC2 players.
In the end, SC2 is just a much harder, and much more by-the-numbers game. You don't have a roster of variously imba champs, you don't have a team, you just have your race. All the talent you see in SC2 -- the strategy, mind-games, multi-tasking, etc. -- is just so much more obscured in LoL. There's just much more depth to a game like SC2, and it's obvious to see. LoL is a great game and a skill game, but it makes for an extremely dull e-sport.
You are so so wrong. LoL eats SC2 alive when it comes to viewers during major tourney(have been like this for at least a year). Not a dull e-sport once you understand whats going on.
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EPT
