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On March 15 2012 02:20 vasculaR wrote:
LoL is a fun game but I happen to enjoy watching many different competitive titles. One thing is for certain is watching DotA/HoN/LoL can be boring at times. And.. for a new spectator, totally impossible to understand... but this can only be good for esports if more people become interested in one of its premier titles at the moment.
It's true that LoL is a fairly slow-paced game more often than not, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be fun to watch, at least for certain groups of people. People love watching soccer but there's an obvious appeal there that goes beyond constant action as well. In this case, the game itself is fun and accessible that it cultivates its own following such that even if it's not as entertaining to 'outsiders', it doesn't matter so much.
The two main thing needed for LoL to improve as a spectator sports are:
1) Top competitors need to challenge themselves more, or become replaced. There's a limitless tap of interesting and creative plays/team compositions. We need to see more of them.
2) Better commentators. They need to get a better clue, and really REALLY analyse the shit out of the games to attribute a bigger significance of the small but important details like a specific mastery page / rune / summoner spell choices, both before the game and during the game. LoL might feel slow to watch but in an actual LoL match I guarantee that the players can't afford to lose focus for even a second, which means every move or step they take is deliberate in some way, and the commentators need to jump on those small nuances.
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konadora
Singapore66071 Posts
On March 15 2012 02:29 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:27 OopsOopsBaby wrote:On March 15 2012 02:15 konadora wrote:
i give up play lol with me =) He has been claimed by Dota he is mine.
yes i'm kipsy's
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On March 15 2012 02:20 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:19 Capped wrote:On March 15 2012 02:16 Royskopp wrote:
To be honest, SC2 is hard and I enjoy playing games with a certain degree of sophistication and beauty rather than easy, rather trashy games (like LoL) owned by money hungry corporations. When you have to pay for extra items the competitive communal nature of the game disappears and it turns into an e-casino or something along those lines.
Nowadays everyone just wants to ride the wave and tag along with whatever the current fad is. We have a winner. "Pay for extra items" +1 to the total number of idiotic trolls who have never even experienced LoL or MOBA in any form yet come here to bitch and moan that the success of a game is bad for gaming in general! Dem Skins mang, everyone knows the team with more skins win that's why 2k elo people are 2k, they got ALL the skins from tournaments, so they naturally always win.
Don't you need to pay for all heroes or something? I remember when I was testing out LoL way back and I could only play a handfull of heroes each week or something like that. It was a huge turn off since it wasn't possible to learn all heroes and I was stuck with some heroes that didn't interest me. ^^
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I think LoL is more competitive and entertaining to watch than SC2 for the viewers.
HoN was good until they started making their own crappy heroes and rainbow slam dunks etc.
DotA2 has a very slow development and it will be hard for them to catch up when they are so late.
What I'd wish for a good competetive esport would be SC:BW with modern graphics.
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I like both of the SC games, but not LoL at all. 
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konadora
Singapore66071 Posts
On March 15 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:20 daemir wrote:On March 15 2012 02:19 Capped wrote:On March 15 2012 02:16 Royskopp wrote:
To be honest, SC2 is hard and I enjoy playing games with a certain degree of sophistication and beauty rather than easy, rather trashy games (like LoL) owned by money hungry corporations. When you have to pay for extra items the competitive communal nature of the game disappears and it turns into an e-casino or something along those lines.
Nowadays everyone just wants to ride the wave and tag along with whatever the current fad is. We have a winner. "Pay for extra items" +1 to the total number of idiotic trolls who have never even experienced LoL or MOBA in any form yet come here to bitch and moan that the success of a game is bad for gaming in general! Dem Skins mang, everyone knows the team with more skins win that's why 2k elo people are 2k, they got ALL the skins from tournaments, so they naturally always win. Don't you need to pay for all heroes or something? I remember when I was testing out LoL way back and I could only play a handfull of heroes each week or something like that. It was a huge turn off since it wasn't possible to learn all heroes and I was stuck with some heroes that didn't interest me. ^^
iirc it's rotation for free and you pay for skins and customization, not extra items
been ages since i played lol (and only played like 5 games) so idk
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LoL is gonna kill BW?
I think I'll kill myself now T_T;.
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On March 15 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:20 daemir wrote:On March 15 2012 02:19 Capped wrote:On March 15 2012 02:16 Royskopp wrote:
To be honest, SC2 is hard and I enjoy playing games with a certain degree of sophistication and beauty rather than easy, rather trashy games (like LoL) owned by money hungry corporations. When you have to pay for extra items the competitive communal nature of the game disappears and it turns into an e-casino or something along those lines.
Nowadays everyone just wants to ride the wave and tag along with whatever the current fad is. We have a winner. "Pay for extra items" +1 to the total number of idiotic trolls who have never even experienced LoL or MOBA in any form yet come here to bitch and moan that the success of a game is bad for gaming in general! Dem Skins mang, everyone knows the team with more skins win that's why 2k elo people are 2k, they got ALL the skins from tournaments, so they naturally always win. Don't you need to pay for all heroes or something? I remember when I was testing out LoL way back and I could only play a handfull of heroes each week or something like that. It was a huge turn off since it wasn't possible to learn all heroes and I was stuck with some heroes that didn't interest me. ^^
You have to buy heroes yes, but you can buy them with IP that you earn simply by playing. You can also unlock them with RP that costs money. Skins are only available for RP. So the only thing you ever need to _pay_ are cosmetic skins that do not in any way shape form or color change the gameplay at all.
And yes there's a rotation of free champions that changes every week, with the newest champion added in the game being in the rotation on after 2 weeks. So there's always champs you can play and if you like them, you can unlock them forever with the IP you get for simply playing the game.
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Not a fan of LoL too be honest. It's relaxing to play and kept me entertained for 2 weeks, but it's pretty tame. Obviously I am a minority though.  I tried to watched LoL, but I don't find it as entertaining as SC2.
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Why is there this perception that all Koreans are these intense gamers? I'm pretty sure Koreans have other professions as well. We focus way too much on Korea.
Kotaku's post makes me doubt his objectivity. Seems like he's being paid. Then again, who doesn't get paid nowadays?
E-sports is all about viewership and thus far SC2 has been proven to be the most 'viewable'.
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Brood War is a national sport in Korea, pretty much the most popular after soccer maybe.
Btw, the article only says it's bigger than SC2, which isn't saying much. SC2 is a joke in Korea comparing to Brood War. Yet again another misleading Kotaku article written by an ignorant writer.
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On March 15 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:20 daemir wrote:On March 15 2012 02:19 Capped wrote:On March 15 2012 02:16 Royskopp wrote:
To be honest, SC2 is hard and I enjoy playing games with a certain degree of sophistication and beauty rather than easy, rather trashy games (like LoL) owned by money hungry corporations. When you have to pay for extra items the competitive communal nature of the game disappears and it turns into an e-casino or something along those lines.
Nowadays everyone just wants to ride the wave and tag along with whatever the current fad is. We have a winner. "Pay for extra items" +1 to the total number of idiotic trolls who have never even experienced LoL or MOBA in any form yet come here to bitch and moan that the success of a game is bad for gaming in general! Dem Skins mang, everyone knows the team with more skins win that's why 2k elo people are 2k, they got ALL the skins from tournaments, so they naturally always win. Don't you need to pay for all heroes or something? I remember when I was testing out LoL way back and I could only play a handfull of heroes each week or something like that. It was a huge turn off since it wasn't possible to learn all heroes and I was stuck with some heroes that didn't interest me. ^^
You start out on the free hero rotation, which is 10 characters that change every week. You can then buy characters with IP earned through playing the game, or RP, which you pay for with real money.
There is a sizable set of characters that are available by spending the IP you earn from playing 4-5 games, and even more with the IP from about 10 or so.
It is VERY expensive to unlock a full roster of characters, either in terms of time or $$$, but there are options, such as bundles where you can purchase 20 characters for the cost of 4.
The free hero rotation is actually benificial more than anything, however. New players will only be exposed to 10 or so characters per week, both by playing them and against them. It makes learning what characters do a lot less daunting than jumping into the dota 2 beta with 70 characters to learn from day 1.
The downside is that once you actually hit a level where you want to be competitive, there IS no way to purchase a version that has every character unlocked. Which sucks.
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On March 15 2012 02:35 Royskopp wrote:
Why is there this perception that all Koreans are these intense gamers? I'm pretty sure Koreans have other professions as well. We focus way too much on Korea.
Kotaku's post makes me doubt his objectivity. Seems like he's being paid. Then again, who doesn't get paid nowadays?
E-sports is all about viewership and thus far SC2 has been proven to be the most 'viewable'.
Both BW and LoL have gotten wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more viewers than SC2 for the major tournamments, not sure what you're talking about.
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On March 15 2012 02:30 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:20 vasculaR wrote:
LoL is a fun game but I happen to enjoy watching many different competitive titles. One thing is for certain is watching DotA/HoN/LoL can be boring at times. And.. for a new spectator, totally impossible to understand... but this can only be good for esports if more people become interested in one of its premier titles at the moment. It's true that LoL is a fairly slow-paced game more often than not, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be fun to watch, at least for certain groups of people. People love watching soccer but there's an obvious appeal there that goes beyond constant action as well. In this case, the game itself is fun and accessible that it cultivates its own following such that even if it's not as entertaining to 'outsiders', it doesn't matter so much. The two main thing needed for LoL to improve as a spectator sports are: 1) Top competitors need to challenge themselves more, or become replaced. There's a limitless tap of interesting and creative plays/team compositions. We need to see more of them. 2) Better commentators. They need to get a better clue, and really REALLY analyse the shit out of the games to attribute a bigger significance of the small but important details like a specific mastery page / rune / summoner spell choices, both before the game and during the game. LoL might feel slow to watch but in an actual LoL match I guarantee that the players can't afford to lose focus for even a second, which means every move or step they take is deliberate in some way, and the commentators need to jump on those small nuances.
1) Agreed. LoL is a fairly undeveloped community at the top level, with lower levels of professionalism than we expect from other eSports. That is, until M5 came in and showed everyone else what a pro team should look like, by dominating the sport Flash style (See BW guys? I pay attention to your game ^_^). M5 made the rest of the world look so bad recently, it was like the original Dreamteam in basketball- really upped the ante.
2) One of the problems with watching LoL is the very delicate cat-and-mouse in the lane that you just can't see if you don't know the Champion interaction. In SC2, its very easy to see zerglings mock-change with cool micro, playing mindgames with your opponent for when you'll actually commit to an attack. In LoL, unless you know that Ashe is retreating every time Vayne gets close because Vayne has a dash ability that is brutal poke when couple with Sona's power chord, you just won't get any of the micro.
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On March 15 2012 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On March 15 2012 02:20 daemir wrote:On March 15 2012 02:19 Capped wrote:On March 15 2012 02:16 Royskopp wrote:
To be honest, SC2 is hard and I enjoy playing games with a certain degree of sophistication and beauty rather than easy, rather trashy games (like LoL) owned by money hungry corporations. When you have to pay for extra items the competitive communal nature of the game disappears and it turns into an e-casino or something along those lines.
Nowadays everyone just wants to ride the wave and tag along with whatever the current fad is. We have a winner. "Pay for extra items" +1 to the total number of idiotic trolls who have never even experienced LoL or MOBA in any form yet come here to bitch and moan that the success of a game is bad for gaming in general! Dem Skins mang, everyone knows the team with more skins win that's why 2k elo people are 2k, they got ALL the skins from tournaments, so they naturally always win. Don't you need to pay for all heroes or something? I remember when I was testing out LoL way back and I could only play a handfull of heroes each week or something like that. It was a huge turn off since it wasn't possible to learn all heroes and I was stuck with some heroes that didn't interest me. ^^ + Show Spoiler +You start out on the free hero rotation, which is 10 characters that change every week. You can then buy characters with IP earned through playing the game, or RP, which you pay for with real money.
There is a sizable set of characters that are available by spending the IP you earn from playing 4-5 games, and even more with the IP from about 10 or so.
It is VERY expensive to unlock a full roster of characters, either in terms of time or $$$, but there are options, such as bundles where you can purchase 20 characters for the cost of 4.
The free hero rotation is actually benificial more than anything, however. New players will only be exposed to 10 or so characters per week, both by playing them and against them. It makes learning what characters do a lot less daunting than jumping into the dota 2 beta with 70 characters to learn from day 1. The downside is that once you actually hit a level where you want to be competitive, there IS no way to purchase a version that has every character unlocked. Which sucks.
Yeah, in ranked play, you're pretty much expected to have all the heroes unlocked so you can swap with your teammates. That aspect was sort of a turn off for me.
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United States1719 Posts
On March 15 2012 02:38 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 15 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On March 15 2012 02:20 daemir wrote:On March 15 2012 02:19 Capped wrote:On March 15 2012 02:16 Royskopp wrote:
To be honest, SC2 is hard and I enjoy playing games with a certain degree of sophistication and beauty rather than easy, rather trashy games (like LoL) owned by money hungry corporations. When you have to pay for extra items the competitive communal nature of the game disappears and it turns into an e-casino or something along those lines.
Nowadays everyone just wants to ride the wave and tag along with whatever the current fad is. We have a winner. "Pay for extra items" +1 to the total number of idiotic trolls who have never even experienced LoL or MOBA in any form yet come here to bitch and moan that the success of a game is bad for gaming in general! Dem Skins mang, everyone knows the team with more skins win that's why 2k elo people are 2k, they got ALL the skins from tournaments, so they naturally always win. Don't you need to pay for all heroes or something? I remember when I was testing out LoL way back and I could only play a handfull of heroes each week or something like that. It was a huge turn off since it wasn't possible to learn all heroes and I was stuck with some heroes that didn't interest me. ^^ + Show Spoiler +You start out on the free hero rotation, which is 10 characters that change every week. You can then buy characters with IP earned through playing the game, or RP, which you pay for with real money.
There is a sizable set of characters that are available by spending the IP you earn from playing 4-5 games, and even more with the IP from about 10 or so.
It is VERY expensive to unlock a full roster of characters, either in terms of time or $$$, but there are options, such as bundles where you can purchase 20 characters for the cost of 4.
The free hero rotation is actually benificial more than anything, however. New players will only be exposed to 10 or so characters per week, both by playing them and against them. It makes learning what characters do a lot less daunting than jumping into the dota 2 beta with 70 characters to learn from day 1. The downside is that once you actually hit a level where you want to be competitive, there IS no way to purchase a version that has every character unlocked. Which sucks. Yeah, in ranked play, you're pretty much expected to have all the heroes unlocked so you can swap with your teammates. That aspect was sort of a turn off for me.
Well it's sort of like buying an actual game... like sc2 and all its expansions...
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On March 15 2012 02:38 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 15 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On March 15 2012 02:20 daemir wrote:On March 15 2012 02:19 Capped wrote:On March 15 2012 02:16 Royskopp wrote:
To be honest, SC2 is hard and I enjoy playing games with a certain degree of sophistication and beauty rather than easy, rather trashy games (like LoL) owned by money hungry corporations. When you have to pay for extra items the competitive communal nature of the game disappears and it turns into an e-casino or something along those lines.
Nowadays everyone just wants to ride the wave and tag along with whatever the current fad is. We have a winner. "Pay for extra items" +1 to the total number of idiotic trolls who have never even experienced LoL or MOBA in any form yet come here to bitch and moan that the success of a game is bad for gaming in general! Dem Skins mang, everyone knows the team with more skins win that's why 2k elo people are 2k, they got ALL the skins from tournaments, so they naturally always win. Don't you need to pay for all heroes or something? I remember when I was testing out LoL way back and I could only play a handfull of heroes each week or something like that. It was a huge turn off since it wasn't possible to learn all heroes and I was stuck with some heroes that didn't interest me. ^^ + Show Spoiler +You start out on the free hero rotation, which is 10 characters that change every week. You can then buy characters with IP earned through playing the game, or RP, which you pay for with real money.
There is a sizable set of characters that are available by spending the IP you earn from playing 4-5 games, and even more with the IP from about 10 or so.
It is VERY expensive to unlock a full roster of characters, either in terms of time or $$$, but there are options, such as bundles where you can purchase 20 characters for the cost of 4.
The free hero rotation is actually benificial more than anything, however. New players will only be exposed to 10 or so characters per week, both by playing them and against them. It makes learning what characters do a lot less daunting than jumping into the dota 2 beta with 70 characters to learn from day 1. The downside is that once you actually hit a level where you want to be competitive, there IS no way to purchase a version that has every character unlocked. Which sucks. Yeah, in ranked play, you're pretty much expected to have all the heroes unlocked so you can swap with your teammates. That aspect was sort of a turn off for me.
There is a LARGE portion of the community that would spend 60 dollars to unlock every champion. You could even do it so that the option is only available once you hit level 30 to discourage people from jumping into ranked without knowing how to play.
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I don't get how such an viewer unfriendly game is this popular...
(imo)
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Well, i have never played lol, but sc II just aint that interesting to deserve the #1 spot. Blizzard havent done anything to game designing, and it just becama mroe frustrating to watch compared to BW. Just to mention few reasons, (Fewer supply, so freaking small maps, depend of the 1st big engagement and all that jazz). Also micro is far more irrelevant in sc II, while most of the races and tactics involve just shitload of a move (on big engagements banelingas colossi lolololo).
So i do not know a jack about the gameplay of lol, but as spectator and dia player of sc II, just don't add up on me. So if LOL goes for #1 spot, so be it. SC2 doesn't deserve it.
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Honestly, I think Blizzard is starting to get greedy on SC2 because WoW is slowly coming down to games like TOR... they need their money baths.
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EPT
