EPTLoL takes #1 E-sport spot in Korea - Page 41
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PH
United States6173 Posts
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Fawkes
Canada1935 Posts
On March 15 2012 02:55 Mohdoo wrote: I have a question for those of you who are saying LoL is such a low skill game: Now, I really dislike LoL and vastly prefer DOTA2. However, how does it have such a thriving professional scene with really dominant teams if it is supposedly such a low skill game? Regardless of what people are saying, teams are able to distinguish themselves and rise above the others. How come? No point in asking that. Probably more than half the posts bashing LoL in this thread are written by people who have: a) Never played LoL b) Never seen LoL Even taking into consideration how casual LoL may be due to a pretty simple mechanical requirement, there is still game knowledge and decision making that make and break teams in LoL. Just like BW/SC2...if you lack the ability to make decisions, you can still suck at the game regardless of your mechanical skills. Understanding the LoL map, the ideas of flanking and team compositions, the positions you engage and fight in, what you are capable of and what is your opponent capable of...many people just don't understand this and probably just 1a in MOBA games to their death. For the record, LoL may not be the most exciting thing to watch...the commentators are sometimes lacking knowledge and make the game boring to watch (happens in every sport), but I like to watch the game for more than just action...I can analyze what the players do, and when they do it and learn from that. But maybe that's just me...since I enjoy LoL just as much as watching. | ||
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KuKri
Germany168 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:08 red_b wrote: the amount of butthurt from LoL players is fantastic. the game is easy and the people who play it are garbage. I managed to make it (easily) into the top 10% of the NA ladder and this was during a time when I was finishing graduate school and had to spend a lot more time studying and going to class than playing. it is literally impossible to miss a creep in LoL. instant turn rate, no windup, 8 million damage to creeps with masteries and runes. free blink dagger, free damage spells (exhaust/ignite), never lose a dragon/baron (smite), characters cant get too out of control because it's not like you can gank (free map hack in clairvoyance, you can buy as many wards as you want at a time) so you cant shut down a smart carry on the tiny ass map. LoL players are like creationists. they have their own little lie for every fact and are quick to accuse you of having never played, or maybe you "just don't understand", or whatever. LoL is NOT suited to be a competitive game. And that's why people like Dendi play DotA and people like HSGG play LoL. Thank you, red_b, for the best answer to this topic! I couldn't have said it better. | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On March 15 2012 03:01 Wildmoon wrote: How can this turn into this? Aren't we supposed to praise Riot not bashing Blizzard? -_-" What riot is doing has no long term plan. The LOL community won't be able to sustain itself without riot, unlike the sc community. However, blizzard should stop fucking around and add the features that would blow LOL out of the water. We all know they could do it, we just don't expect them too. Ill say it, Riot did good. Although, i still feel like a huge chuck of LOL players are sc2 players that got fed up at one point. Therefore, blizzard has no one to blame but themselves. | ||
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RelZo
Hungary397 Posts
This thread...gold. Pure gold. | ||
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On March 15 2012 02:45 Umi wrote: So there was an obvious misinterpretation of the prize money of this tournament, but don't forget that the prize pool for The International was 1million. Dota 2 has the full backing of Valve, which is HUGE in comparison to Riot. Dota 2 is going to go live and seriously put other MOBA's to the test. There are a lot of 'beginner' interfaces that are shown in the beta just not available as of yet. Valve is seriously taking the time and the effort to make sure that Dota 2 is also accessable to the 'general public' and not just previous Dota players. And don't forget that the skill-cap that is currently in the Dota 2 beta is higher then the skill cap of Dota or LoL currently is, and that is because Valve has really been only inviting players who have previous MOBA experience, whether it be dota, lol or hon. I find that there are SIGNIFICANT differences in the gameplay of LoL and Dota 2. I am a long-time dota player (around 6 years), i am participating in the dota2 beta and I have played LoL a fair amount. I'm not saying that LoL is not a fun game, because it is, but the snowball factor in LoL is significantly easier then it is in dota or dota2. I feel that overall as a game LoL is extremely fun to play and easy to learn, whereas Dota 2 has a higher skill cap to be decent at the game. LoL focuses almost completely on early and mid game ganking and transitions into 'my carry has more farm then you, we win'. There are instances that this is not the case, but for the most part that is what LoL comes down to each game. In Dota 2 you can easily comeback from a horrible start because you picked a 'late-game' lineup in comparison to the opposing team picking a 'mid-game' lineup. Now I have not played LoL at a high level, so I do not want to spectate on the intracacies of high-level play, but in Dota 2 you have extremely complicated play at the pro-level. I also found that in lower-level play Dota 2 tends to spiral into 1-2 heroes carrying the game, much like they are supposed to, whereas in pro-level play you can often see games that end before that 'carry' can truly reach his potential. In the games of LoL that I have seen, you almost never see non-carry games. That makes the game extremely 1-sided. Whoever farms their carry the best wins. Is that a good strategy for an e-sport? IMO, no, but does that mean that it isn't a viable e-sport? No it does not. I completely agree with you post except for 2 things. One is that League of legends does not have as much of a complicated pro level play. It's true that Dota matchups are far more complex in how the characters work with each other, but I do have to say that the use of obtainable objectives such as dragon (gives bonus global gold) and red and blue buff (blue regenerates mana, and red provides on hit slows) makes up for the lack of match up depth. Roshan and baron nashor are not included seeing as both games have them. Second thing is that LoL has no late game line ups. If you've ever faced an early game team in LoL you'll know it because early game characters have a much easier time getting kills, but I've seen early game compositions completely fall apart once the later game carries reach their potential. An example is leblanc vs. ryze. Both are mage carries (something which doesn't exist in Dota) and ryze is really really weak early game, but give him some time to build items and he quickly becomes an unstoppable monster. The closest thing that league has to a dota style carry is characters which build damage/cs. These characters can eventually gain the ability to 1v5 if they cs enough. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On March 14 2012 19:58 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Sad now :-( Was Hoping Starcraft 2 would be the new Starcraft in Korea.. If Riot made SC2 instead of Blizzard it probably would be. No one but Blizzard could make such a masterpiece of a game and then butcher the promotion and nurturing of the community. Just look at how much more involved/caring Riot is in their community and the consumers and it's pretty clear why SC2 is lagging behind LoL. | ||
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Fawkes
Canada1935 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:08 red_b wrote: the amount of butthurt from LoL players is fantastic. the game is easy and the people who play it are garbage. I managed to make it (easily) into the top 10% of the NA ladder and this was during a time when I was finishing graduate school and had to spend a lot more time studying and going to class than playing. it is literally impossible to miss a creep in LoL. instant turn rate, no windup, 8 million damage to creeps with masteries and runes. free blink dagger, free damage spells (exhaust/ignite), never lose a dragon/baron (smite), characters cant get too out of control because it's not like you can gank (free map hack in clairvoyance, you can buy as many wards as you want at a time) so you cant shut down a smart carry on the tiny ass map. LoL players are like creationists. they have their own little lie for every fact and are quick to accuse you of having never played, or maybe you "just don't understand", or whatever. LoL is NOT suited to be a competitive game. And that's why people like Dendi play DotA and people like HSGG play LoL. Yep exhaust does a lot of damage. Yep never lose a dragon/baron because you have smite, you totally don't need to time it right. You totally don't need to plan your fights on how to interrupt their jungler from smiting (silence/stun/CC...). Yep free map hack. Both sides could potentially get it. Totally don't need to adapt to what you see with your leet maphax, Yep spending money on wards. Totally don't need ward in proper spots or decide when to clear enemy wards. Just because all the mechanics aren't the same as your beloved dota, doesn't mean it automatically makes it simple. You talk as if everything you mentioned is OP and cannot be countered. If there's a strat for something, there is a counter. Top 10%, you pretty gud bro. The only BS I see right now is your amazing indepth knowledge of a game you were so good at because it is so easy. | ||
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vasculaR
Malaysia791 Posts
On March 15 2012 03:10 SupLilSon wrote: If Riot made SC2 instead of Blizzard it probably would be. No one but Blizzard could make such a masterpiece of a game and then butcher the promotion and nurturing of the community. Just look at how much more involved/caring Riot is in their community and the consumers and it's pretty clear why SC2 is lagging behind LoL. you're forgetting that LoL is in fact, free. I don't know how much publicity or promotion is needed to beat a game which is not only free, but also massively fun. Oh did I mention LoL is easy? haha | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
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Yiska
141 Posts
On March 15 2012 03:02 PH wrote: LoL is fun to play, but horribly boring to watch. 200,000 people disagree. | ||
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StyLeD
United States2965 Posts
On March 15 2012 03:15 Eppa! wrote: LoL snowballs to hard. Ganking is to hard. Getting top 10% in soloque means jack shit. There is a huge gap between semipros and top level teams. People don't understand that rather than DotA the big hurdle is not in the beginning it is in the end. Every point in your post manages to contradict one another and be wrong at the same time. Good job. | ||
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.ImpacT.
United States390 Posts
I've been ~2100 in LoL, thats top 250-ish. I've also held top 17 in NA for a while back at the end/slightly after the end of the beta in SC2 as VTImpacT. As a CONSUMER/VIEWER standpoint, I think both games are just about equal. Both have their "boring" phases, that lead up to a climax in the game (mid/lategame in sc2, and lategame and teamfights in LoL) Sc2 casters can provide a lot more in-depth analysis of a game due to their knowledge of the game and that most things in Sc2 have a linear progression (He's going for robo, odds are he's going to get a robo facility and then colossus range and go colossus.) Where-as LoL is a much more dynamic and flowing game, where a team can suddenly shift from playing extremely passively to extremely aggressive whenever they want. Its like Mech being able to get up, run around and act like stimmed Bio and be just as effective. This is REALLY hard on commentators to catch all the action. It's almost impossible to read when someone is randomly going to be aggressive in lane, and things like player thought processes are much harder to analyze than a build in sc2 that will very likely go one way or the other. LoL is hurt however, by the lack of professionalism and community involvement among its top tier players. If you've ever listened to a high-level stream, its "HOLY FUCK MY TEAM FUCKING SUCKS YOU FUCKING F-GGOTS N-GGERS OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK!" almost across the board. LoL needs a djWheat or Day9, someone willing to take responsibility for the community and grow the game that way and show some class. The teams need to get more professional as well, m5 is the only one that's really done it. Look at EG or coL compared to ANY LoL team, and it's kinda scary how much Sc2 teams are to, well, BUSINESSES, which is what ANY team really is at the end of the day. I think both have a shot at being an E-Sport, appealing to different audiences. I know that I love both games, but sometimes I get tired of losing 10 games in a row because my teammates just won't come together and do anything and sit there arguing the entire game. For me, sc2 is probably a better fit because its a representation of MY skill and my skill alone, and a head-to-head game will always be better for displaying one players skill. But at the same time, games like Halo and CS:S have always succeeded because its a display of teamskill, and working together with 4 other players is a different kind of skill. Sure LoL may be MUCH easier to play for ONE person. You don't need 300APM and thousands of hours studying the game, but its the coordination factor that's so difficult and that puts it on the same tier as Sc2. TL;DR - BOTH CAN BE E-SPORTS. There are fans for one that hate sc2, fans for Sc2 that hate LoL, but A LOT OF FANS FOR BOTH, LIKE ME AND A BUNCH OF MY FRIENDS. | ||
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
On March 14 2012 20:09 MethodSC wrote: It truly is the age of casuals... =/ yep.. indeed | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Sure LoL may have a lower mechanical requirement than say Broodwar, but you can't just say it is easy because you have to compete against other players... technically the difficulty isn't the game/UI itself but the players playing against you. Its just like say Football or basketball. To play Soccer you don't have to fight the games UI in order to play effectively... in fact I think even LoL's UI is more technical and complicated than soccer's UI... yet I would bet my life half of you would consider Soccer a more competitive sport than League of Legends is, despite the fact that man... Soccer is an "easier" game than LoL just like LoL is an easier game than SC2 (Or hell, like SC2 is an easier game than BW  ). | ||
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zazone
Romania460 Posts
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:18 Josh111 wrote: LoL is very different then other free games before lol. LoL is not a game that can lose popularity fast, mostly because its so dam addicting and everchanging. I got the game in closed beta, have played over 2 thousand games over almost 3 years now and still play leagues on a somewhat regularly basis. Mikey that is a complete lie. To even be able to get on the ranked ladder you have to be level 30 which takes far more then 2 weeks and then when you have reached level 30 your looking at atleast a 100 games (if you win more then twice as much as you lose) to get to a high place in the ladder.. lets say your friend never loses, or loses very rarely cause *lol is so easy* you are looking at 200 games (to get to 30 then to get to top 10), and lets say each game is 35 min (now im bad at math) but thats what 120 hours of gaming? Your friend can play for 120 hours in 2 weeks? I really don't think it takes that long to get to 30, I have seen people get smurfs there in under a week. It's like what, 100 games? That's 60 hours, less than most hardcore DotA players play per week. Some weeks I'll play a game for over 100 hours. It's not really far-fetched. Anyway, it should be obvious to everybody that LoL is a less deep game than DotA. I am a DotA player but I do enjoy LoL, but every time I play it I find myself trying to do things that are not possible like deny and juke, and I need to remind myself to play far less actively since active play is not rewarded in LoL. Meanwhile, when I play LoL for awhile and switch back to DotA, I find myself forgetting how to do these simple things, and my last hitting suffers. Riot is a great company and I wish them the best, I see this as a good sign for DotA since eventually DotA2 will overtake LoL in competitive popularity, and we'll be the ones getting all that $$$. (Edit: misphrased, of course DotA is already far more popular competitively. I meant from a spectator standpoint.) | ||
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clik
United States319 Posts
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moopie
12605 Posts
On March 15 2012 03:02 PH wrote: LoL is fun to play, but horribly boring to watch. That's what people said about SC2 too (some still do). | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On March 15 2012 03:17 StyLeD wrote: Every point in your post manages to contradict one another and be wrong at the same time. Good job. Why so 1 and 2 It snowballs hard because there is no great big equalizer aka ganking. The rest i do not understand how it does not make sense to you. | ||
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