EPTIf you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
| ||
|
heliusx
United States2306 Posts
| ||
|
Velr
Switzerland10852 Posts
But hey... Facts were never even a part for your side of the discussion since page 1 in this tread, so i highly doubt they would change your mind on page 572. You wan't safety? Get a Dog. You want more safety? Get a panic room. You want to get shot at? Pull out a gun. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:22 heliusx wrote: I'd take being an idiot in plansix's eyes any day over being a naïve dead idiot who's afraid to protect his family. You break into my I will shoot you and the law will back me. You are free to be an idiot with fire arms, it’s a right we give all Americans, sadly. You are sort of wrong on both accounts, but whatever. The law will have your back if they are armed and criminals. If they are drunk teenagers playing a prank who broke into the wrong house because they are drunk, the law may not favor your decision making. Or if it’s a cold homeless person that just fucked up and picked a house that had people in it. Or someone who is mentally ill, but not violent(as the majority are not violent). Or someone with diminished mental abilities who got lost. | ||
|
heliusx
United States2306 Posts
| ||
|
evilfatsh1t
Australia8809 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:22 heliusx wrote: I'd take being an idiot in plansix's eyes any day over being a naïve dead idiot who's afraid to protect his family. You break into my house i will shoot you and the law will back me. Also I could careless what your brother thinks. exactly whats fked up with america and brings me back to my earlier point. americans think its ok to kill someone in your own house no questions asked because they know they cant get prosecuted for it. who cares about the morality of it, i have my freedom to shoot someone in my own house. what u gonna do about it | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:29 evilfatsh1t wrote: exactly whats fked up with america and brings me back to my earlier point. americans think its ok to kill someone in your own house no questions asked because they know they cant get prosecuted for it. who cares about the morality of it, i have my freedom to shoot someone in my own house. what u gonna do about it That isn't true in any way. There is a requirement of the "reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm," which must be proven. You can't fear death if someone is running away from you. Or if they surrender and beg you not to shoot them. | ||
|
shabby
Norway6402 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:32 Plansix wrote: That isn't true in any way. There is a requirement of the "reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm," which must be proven. You can't fear death if someone is running away from you. Or if they surrender and beg you not to shoot them. Or if they just broke into your house. But yeah, the point made about caring more about what one is legally allowed to do, than human life, is kind of frightening. | ||
|
heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:27 Plansix wrote: You are free to be an idiot with fire arms, it’s a right we give all Americans, sadly. You are sort of wrong on both accounts, but whatever. The law will have your back if they are armed and criminals. If they are drunk teenagers playing a prank who broke into the wrong house because they are drunk, the law may not favor your decision making. Or if it’s a cold homeless person that just fucked up and picked a house that had people in it. Or someone who is mentally ill, but not violent(as the majority are not violent). Or someone with diminished mental abilities who got lost. You're ignorant on the law, where I'm living, clearly. Mental illness, immaturity, homelessness these aren't disqualifiers for the use of lethal force. Anyone who breaks into a home can and in many cases will be subjected to lethal force, legally, regardless of your opinion. Also armed or not doesn't matter. Someone breaking in is all the justification needed to say you feared for your life, end of story. | ||
|
TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:35 shabby wrote: Or if they just broke into your house. But yeah, the point made about caring more about what one is legally allowed to do, than human life, is kind of frightening. Even if they break into your house, deadly force isn't automatically safe to use in the legal sense. Its all fact driven. If they break into your house, but are laughing and sound drunk, you can't just open fire. If they seem confused and lost, its not automatically OK. If they are trying to steal the car from your garage, but made no effort to break into the house, you can't just go HAM on them. You need to prove you had a reasonable fear of death. That means that a “fact set” has to be present that you felt the immediate fear of death or great bodily harm. Someone who isn’t clearly armed, trying to be quite and steal a PS4 doesn’t present that. Nothing is assured and it is all a question of the actions of the home own and the person who entered the home illegally. To be honest, you are better off calling the police and hiding in the bedroom with the gun. heliusx: That is state by state and most of them don't have your back. Even Florida doesn't let you open fire without warning. The act of entering illegal assumes violence and threat, but that doesn't mean that assumption is always present if other facts are in place. The law doesn't let you just shoot people that you know are not a threat, even if they are in your house. | ||
|
kwizach
3658 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:27 heliusx wrote: Gun fights have an increased risk of gun shot injuries? Wow who woulda thunk. I'm not sure why you're being sarcastic here since you're the one using the argument that having your gun and using it will keep you safer (as opposed to being a "naïve dead idiot" without a gun, in your words), while studies show that this is statistically false. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:56 kwizach wrote: I'm not sure why you're being sarcastic here since you're the one using the argument that having your gun and using it will keep you safer (as opposed to being a "naïve dead idiot" without a gun, in your words), while studies show that this is statistically false. The key with having a gun is not using it. It keeps your family safer if you avoid gun fights in your house. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:23 Velr wrote: By pulling a gun you are in fact more likely to end up shot dead by an intruder than by simple fleeing or locking yourself in with your family. If he is grouped with felons, domestic abusers, drug dealers, and other criminals, this may well be true. Otherwise, it is not. I thought we went through this particular study a dozen pages ago. Looks like kwizach doesn't read either. It truly is interesting how this works. studies may be techically accurate, but intentionally mislead the general public. Small wonder why the CDC gun research budget was cut. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:57 acker wrote: If he is grouped with felons, domestic abusers, drug dealers, and other criminals, this may well be true. Otherwise, it is not. I thought we went through this particular study a dozen pages ago. If there is more than one intruder, you are better off not engaging them. The police operate the exact same way and wait for back up before engaging. Just call the police and bunker in the bedroom with your family and fire arm. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On October 07 2015 00:03 Plansix wrote: If there is more than one intruder, you are better off not engaging them. The police operate the exact same way and wait for back up before engaging. Just call the police and bunker in the bedroom with your family and fire arm. Very true, the exception being multiple rooms where people sleep. | ||
|
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
The study was well done, and there'd be no reason to cut the CDC research budget over it, as it was well done. On another note, it's sad how few people have good tactical and strategic sense. | ||
|
kwizach
3658 Posts
On October 06 2015 23:57 acker wrote: If he is grouped with felons, domestic abusers, drug dealers, and other criminals, this may well be true. Otherwise, it is not. I thought we went through this particular study a dozen pages ago. Looks like kwizach doesn't read either. What are you referring to? I was not basing my point on one article but on multiple studies demonstrating an association between gun ownership (and gun use) and being more likely to be a victim of (or to have a family member be a victim of) gun violence, including in cases of home invasion. | ||
|
ZerOCoolSC2
9025 Posts
So many people have a fetish for being cowboys in America it's mind boggling. Honestly, who do you have to fear? The kid walking down the street at night? The guy waiting 10 steps away from the bus stop as he smokes his cigarette? I'm more afraid of the person with a weapon walking down the street tucked into his pants because he has a license to carry it or hidden away in his car. You invite danger. I wish no harm or ill on any person. But you gun-fanatics/zealots deserve wholeheartedly what comes your way if you're caught in a situation. If someone brandishes a weapon, GET THE FUCK AWAY AS QUICKLY AND SAFELY AS POSSIBLE. Pulling your gun invites more danger and harm to the innocent bystanders around you, because you think you can handle the situation. No, evacuate as many people as you can while staying out of danger. Stop watching Hollywood movies and video games that suggest that anything and everything can be solved with a weapon or prevented if only you had had one. American's and the world need to evolve past the use of deadly weapons so that we can actually find solutions to bigger problems. | ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
| ||
| ||
