EPTIf you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
SayGen
United States1209 Posts
| ||
|
Goozen
Israel701 Posts
On July 22 2012 03:49 SayGen wrote: I fully support the American 2nd admendment and think Gun control is stupid. How can a people stand up agaisnt an oppressive goverment witohut weapons? You need weapons to win. Also check ur facts. Do you know why Japan never atempted a major land invasion of the USA in WWII. Japan was scared of the gun owning Americas. 300million people with guns is a pretty scary idea. I own several guns and anyone stupid enough to break into my home is dead. If the Goverment ever tries to oppress me or my family, I can fihgt back. If my country ever gets invaded, I can help fihgt back. You need weapons to fight. Period. Somethings are worth fighting for. Somethings are worth dieing for. This is whats so dangerous about the US mindset in some people the whole: "If the Goverment ever tries to oppress me or my family, I can fihgt back. If my country ever gets invaded, I can help fihgt back." This isnt going to happen, and owning guns wont prevent it. While i dont think that guns need to be outlawed, i think it need to be alot harder to own them. At the end of they day the main issue is education, but it shouldnt be as easy as it is to own guns. | ||
|
SayGen
United States1209 Posts
This is whats so dangerous about the US mindset in some people the whole: "If the Goverment ever tries to oppress me or my family, I can fihgt back. If my country ever gets invaded, I can help fihgt back." This isnt going to happen, and owning guns wont prevent it. While i dont think that guns need to be outlawed, i think it need to be alot harder to own them. At the end of they day the main issue is education, but it shouldnt be as easy as it is to own guns. Lol you talk about education and yet based on your comments I can freely say you have never read a history book. Civil war was won with GUNS (US civil war) We beat the European army with guns! no one with a pitchfork was going to charge into a red coat line. Also you have no idea what guerilla warfare is. Again pick up a history book. Small hit and runs over long distances do massive damage. (see German invasion of Russia and how the German forces paid for EVERY inch in EVERY town and the Russian civilian population didn't even have alot of guns or supplies and still did massive damage.) Supply lines are venerable to civilian armed forces. Sure civilians will never beat a real army head to head but they can force troops away from the main battle lines by threatening supply lines, and disorder in occupied cities. Read a history book before you mention the word education ever again please. | ||
|
SayGen
United States1209 Posts
I don't have enough time in a day to tlak about how many times a regime has gain'd control and begun to oppresse its people. No one is immume from oppression. We must be ever vigilant. We must be ready willing and prepared. | ||
|
schaf
Germany1326 Posts
On July 22 2012 04:07 SayGen wrote: Lol you talk about education and yet based on your comments I can freely say you have never read a history book. Civil war was won with GUNS (US civil war) We beat the European army with guns! no one with a pitchfork was going to charge into a red coat line. Also you have no idea what guerilla warfare is. Again pick up a history book. Small hit and runs over long distances do massive damage. (see German invasion of Russia and how the German forces paid for EVERY inch in EVERY town and the Russian civilian population didn't even have alot of guns or supplies and still did massive damage.) Supply lines are venerable to civilian armed forces. Sure civilians will never beat a real army head to head but they can force troops away from the main battle lines by threatening supply lines, and disorder in occupied cities. Read a history book before you mention the word education ever again please. The thing is, you will not be invaded. it doesn"t matter that you are "safe" against it while paying the price for it with lives (meaning people getting shot). | ||
|
LessThanIII
9 Posts
| ||
|
Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On July 22 2012 02:18 schaf wrote: It would make the fight messy enough though so that no soldier would ever want to fight this war Army is volunteer based, so essentially you have civilians fighting civilians if the government all of a sudden became a dictatorship. The army isn't going to start killing the masses. Or in the off chance they did want to fight civilians for some wierd reason they would domolish the people with ease with tanks and airplances and shit. I don't see fighting back against the government a feasible reason to own guns. | ||
|
Holy_AT
Austria978 Posts
The only thing most people do when they dont agree with the government is bomb their buildings and go on a killing spree and that certainly doesnt justify owning guns. | ||
|
SayGen
United States1209 Posts
2) The Military will not attack civilians with full force because Officers will defect and probably in-fight with any one in the military who tries to carry out unlawful orders. American Officers are taught in War College that they are respsonsible for defending the people not the goverment. As a member of the US armed forced you cna bet your last dollar I will never shoot a group of people who are trying to overthrow the government cause it is an American constitutional right to do so. You are ALLOWED to voerthrow the goverment. READ A HISTORY BOOK before you type please. 3) I am not a Marine. 4) American armed forces do not have 300 million shells/ammo rounds/misslies. 5) Every American state has it's own Guard force which answers ot the GOVENER not to the FEDERAL goverment. Please do not tlak about what you do not understand. | ||
|
SayGen
United States1209 Posts
GG tank GG | ||
|
sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
tbh it is such a ridiculous scenario that it should never be mentioned ever again, by either side. the US government will never suddenly up and decide that it's gonna commit all-out war on the civilian population. and if we propose some ridiculous scenario in which they do, and then presuppose that the entirety of the military sides with the government (lol) than i will counter with the equally ridiculous scenario that space-aliens will invade and side with the civilians. this same argument goes for foreign invasion. we don't have the right to own guns for those reasons (the military magically deciding to kill us all or the Chinese or whoever coming in guns blazing). we have the right to own guns because there is no reason not to own guns. | ||
|
Goozen
Israel701 Posts
On July 22 2012 04:07 SayGen wrote: Lol you talk about education and yet based on your comments I can freely say you have never read a history book. Civil war was won with GUNS (US civil war) We beat the European army with guns! no one with a pitchfork was going to charge into a red coat line. Also you have no idea what guerilla warfare is. Again pick up a history book. Small hit and runs over long distances do massive damage. (see German invasion of Russia and how the German forces paid for EVERY inch in EVERY town and the Russian civilian population didn't even have alot of guns or supplies and still did massive damage.) Supply lines are venerable to civilian armed forces. Sure civilians will never beat a real army head to head but they can force troops away from the main battle lines by threatening supply lines, and disorder in occupied cities. Read a history book before you mention the word education ever again please. Alot of time has passed since then, and as i said the whole Us vs the Govt is absurd, dangerous and problematic mindset to have. And the US invaded wont happen, no army in the world is big enough. And having guns wont help you if you get nuked. | ||
|
SayGen
United States1209 Posts
On July 22 2012 04:26 Holy_AT wrote: Guns will do nothing against a modern mechanizes army, the only reson the US is loosing this many people in the middle east it is because they are nice and let them. The US could annihilate the whole civilian population in these countries if they want to, so guns will not help if the US Army would be determined to opress someone or wipe someone out. The only thing most people do when they dont agree with the government is bomb their buildings and go on a killing spree and that certainly doesnt justify owning guns. You have no clue.... You really think I (again I am a member of the Active Duty armed forces) would obey or allow anyone in my unit to attack a US civilian force? Not a chance. I would defect, or sabatage the efforts of the opporessors. | ||
|
Corelion
Sweden28 Posts
| ||
|
TommyP
United States6231 Posts
| ||
|
Kahlgar
411 Posts
On July 22 2012 03:49 SayGen wrote: I fully support the American 2nd admendment and think Gun control is stupid. How can a people stand up agaisnt an oppressive goverment witohut weapons? You need weapons to win. Also check ur facts. Do you know why Japan never atempted a major land invasion of the USA in WWII. Japan was scared of the gun owning Americas. 300million people with guns is a pretty scary idea. I own several guns and anyone stupid enough to break into my home is dead. If the Goverment ever tries to oppress me or my family, I can fihgt back. If my country ever gets invaded, I can help fihgt back. You need weapons to fight. Period. Somethings are worth fighting for. Somethings are worth dieing for. The idea that Japan was scared of invading the US because of the gun carrying laws is hilarious. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the US having a much better navy and infinitely more production capablities. And believe it or not there were not 300m people in the USA at the times. I guess it's only fitting that such an ignorant post features a "check ur facts" advice. | ||
|
kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On July 22 2012 04:29 sc2superfan101 wrote: omg, so many people here do not understand how the military works at all. for one, there isn't just an "army" and that's it (state national guards anyone?). for another, our officers are almost universally college-educated (meaning they aren't brainless noobs who follow whatever orders they are given). nevermind the cost of engaging in a prolonged war with the people who pay for you. nevermind the very real possibility of foreign intervention if it actually came to infighting between sections of the military and the citizens (and other sections of the military; it's not like no one in the military would side with the citizens). nevermind the ease of assassination at that point... tbh it is such a ridiculous scenario that it should never be mentioned ever again, by either side. the US government will never suddenly up and decide that it's gonna commit all-out war on the civilian population. and if we propose some ridiculous scenario in which they do, and then presuppose that the entirety of the military sides with the government (lol) than i will counter with the equally ridiculous scenario that space-aliens will invade and side with the civilians. this same argument goes for foreign invasion. we don't have the right to own guns for those reasons (the military magically deciding to kill us all or the Chinese or whoever coming in guns blazing). we have the right to own guns because there is no reason not to own guns. No reason not to own guns? Let me quote you some statistics "In one year, guns murdered 35 in Australia, 39 in England and Wales, 194 in Germany, 200 in Canada and 9,484 in the United States" Yep. No reason not to own guns. Not...at...all. | ||
|
SayGen
United States1209 Posts
On July 22 2012 04:31 Corelion wrote: SayGen, are you for real? o.O I never joke about defending my country. I swore an oath of honor and duty to defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies--FORGEIN and DOMESTIC. Any threat to freedom must be elimiated with the deadliest of force. | ||
|
Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On July 22 2012 04:27 SayGen wrote: 1) How can you say we will not get invaded. Please explain. Cause I'm pretty sure Iran has said both us and Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet. People HATE americans. HATE US. Not everone beleivesin LOAC and RoEs or the Gevena Convention. A few 4-star generals have said that if Iran is America's greatest enemy, than America has nothing to worry about. They are least a decade or more from successfully making a nuclear bomb, have no launch capability, and have a small, poorly trained, army with an outdated arsenal. All this includes crippling sanctions on their country by the US and a long list of allies. | ||
|
SayGen
United States1209 Posts
On July 22 2012 04:32 Kahlgar wrote: The idea that Japan was scared of invading the US because of the gun carrying laws is hilarious. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the US having a much better navy and infinitely more production capablities. And believe it or not there were not 300m people in the USA at the times. I guess it's only fitting that such an ignorant post features a "check ur facts" advice. 1) It was found in post war documents among Japan military brass files. Check ur facts. 2) Ur right we didn't have 300m at the time that is the current number, I was mistaken. though the fact we had more civilians then the entire standing army of the Japanese forces is still important even if I was wrong on the 300m figure. (again my mistake). 3) At least I can admit when I'm wrong, and work to fix the record. Almost everything you said was dead wrong- so I state again, read a history book and check ur facts. | ||
| ||
