Sorry, but it was hard to resist, given all the USA USA USA! stuff elsewhere on the Forums
I'm an American citizen and a proud firearm owner of many different varieties, and I don't see how gun control would impact crime in America. All it does is it make it harder for the law biding citizen to attain what our constitution says you can legally own. Only .2% of all violent crimes in America are committed with legally owned firearms. It's the black market trade where the criminalizes get their weapons from. I'm a strong believer in more guns less crime. I live in NY state and I have a conceal carry permit for 2 almost 3 years now and i have yet to use it, IDK how you can say that gun control is a good thing. Just because i carry one doesn't mean i'm going to rob a store..
While gun control laws tend to reduce violent crimes, there has be be gun control from the start. Now that loose gun control laws have lead to a large amount of firearms coming into the U.S. it's a tad too late to decide to enforce gun control laws because they won't make guns magically disappear. But saying gun control laws have no impact on violent crime would be well.... wrong to put it bluntly.
Really? Then how do you account for countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, etc. that all have high rates of gun ownership but lower crime than other European states like the UK?
Would be interesting to check that correlation using not guns in general, but handguns in particular. But yes, blaming everything on just guns is simplifying things too much.
Do you think a bigger correlation is with economic hardship and war rather than legal status of guns? From what I saw, when people want to commit crimes, they always miraculously obtain the materials required to commit the crime.
Considering that in Europe and other low crime-rate countries most murders seem to be done "on the fly" in affect, the person in question does not have time to search for guns if he does not have one. And when you add that and ease of more deaths when using a gun compared to knife or club it actually makes a difference. There were instances here where a guy suddenly went nuts and killed few people with privately owned gun. Without that gun he would be able to kill at most one person. Crazies like Breyvik will get the guns no matter what (without instituting some pretty totalitarian measures), but the others that I described would not get the gun. And those happen quite more often and more than offset the possible lives that could be saved by people in Norway being armed to the teeth and stopping Breyvik.
As for your economic hardship correlation I do not think that actually plays a big role alone. A lot of poor countries have relatively low murder rates. But I think getting rich helps with lowering murder rates if the whole society gets richer, not just parts of the society. So maybe inequality and poverty are part of the problem, but even that seems not a complete picture. I think it is deeper societal problem that is not easy to pinpoint.
EDIT:typo
Oh, the US has a very, very high murder per capita rate, and they're not exactly a third-world country. They're like fighting in the top ten along South Africa and Mexico. So yeah, I think you can kind of blame guns.
Sorry, but it was hard to resist, given all the USA USA USA! stuff elsewhere on the Forums
I'm an American citizen and a proud firearm owner of many different varieties, and I don't see how gun control would impact crime in America. All it does is it make it harder for the law biding citizen to attain what our constitution says you can legally own. Only .2% of all violent crimes in America are committed with legally owned firearms. It's the black market trade where the criminalizes get their weapons from. I'm a strong believer in more guns less crime. I live in NY state and I have a conceal carry permit for 2 almost 3 years now and i have yet to use it, IDK how you can say that gun control is a good thing. Just because i carry one doesn't mean i'm going to rob a store..
While gun control laws tend to reduce violent crimes, there has be be gun control from the start. Now that loose gun control laws have lead to a large amount of firearms coming into the U.S. it's a tad too late to decide to enforce gun control laws because they won't make guns magically disappear. But saying gun control laws have no impact on violent crime would be well.... wrong to put it bluntly.
Really? Then how do you account for countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, etc. that all have high rates of gun ownership but lower crime than other European states like the UK?
Would be interesting to check that correlation using not guns in general, but handguns in particular. But yes, blaming everything on just guns is simplifying things too much.
Do you think a bigger correlation is with economic hardship and war rather than legal status of guns? From what I saw, when people want to commit crimes, they always miraculously obtain the materials required to commit the crime.
Considering that in Europe and other low crime-rate countries most murders seem to be done "on the fly" in affect, the person in question does not have time to search for guns if he does not have one. And when you add that and ease of more deaths when using a gun compared to knife or club it actually makes a difference. There were instances here where a guy suddenly went nuts and killed few people with privately owned gun. Without that gun he would be able to kill at most one person. Crazies like Breyvik will get the guns no matter what (without instituting some pretty totalitarian measures), but the others that I described would not get the gun. And those happen quite more often and more than offset the possible lives that could be saved by people in Norway being armed to the teeth and stopping Breyvik.
As for your economic hardship correlation I do not think that actually plays a big role alone. A lot of poor countries have relatively low murder rates. But I think getting rich helps with lowering murder rates if the whole society gets richer, not just parts of the society. So maybe inequality and poverty are part of the problem, but even that seems not a complete picture. I think it is deeper societal problem that is not easy to pinpoint.
EDIT:typo
Oh, the US has a very, very high murder per capita rate, and they're not exactly a third-world country. They're like fighting in the top ten along South Africa and Mexico. So yeah, I think you can kind of blame guns.
I would start with, correlation does not mean causation But the problem is that the correlation does not hold so well when you look at other countries.
Sorry, but it was hard to resist, given all the USA USA USA! stuff elsewhere on the Forums
I'm an American citizen and a proud firearm owner of many different varieties, and I don't see how gun control would impact crime in America. All it does is it make it harder for the law biding citizen to attain what our constitution says you can legally own. Only .2% of all violent crimes in America are committed with legally owned firearms. It's the black market trade where the criminalizes get their weapons from. I'm a strong believer in more guns less crime. I live in NY state and I have a conceal carry permit for 2 almost 3 years now and i have yet to use it, IDK how you can say that gun control is a good thing. Just because i carry one doesn't mean i'm going to rob a store..
While gun control laws tend to reduce violent crimes, there has be be gun control from the start. Now that loose gun control laws have lead to a large amount of firearms coming into the U.S. it's a tad too late to decide to enforce gun control laws because they won't make guns magically disappear. But saying gun control laws have no impact on violent crime would be well.... wrong to put it bluntly.
Really? Then how do you account for countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, etc. that all have high rates of gun ownership but lower crime than other European states like the UK?
Would be interesting to check that correlation using not guns in general, but handguns in particular. But yes, blaming everything on just guns is simplifying things too much.
Do you think a bigger correlation is with economic hardship and war rather than legal status of guns? From what I saw, when people want to commit crimes, they always miraculously obtain the materials required to commit the crime.
Considering that in Europe and other low crime-rate countries most murders seem to be done "on the fly" in affect, the person in question does not have time to search for guns if he does not have one. And when you add that and ease of more deaths when using a gun compared to knife or club it actually makes a difference. There were instances here where a guy suddenly went nuts and killed few people with privately owned gun. Without that gun he would be able to kill at most one person. Crazies like Breyvik will get the guns no matter what (without instituting some pretty totalitarian measures), but the others that I described would not get the gun. And those happen quite more often and more than offset the possible lives that could be saved by people in Norway being armed to the teeth and stopping Breyvik.
As for your economic hardship correlation I do not think that actually plays a big role alone. A lot of poor countries have relatively low murder rates. But I think getting rich helps with lowering murder rates if the whole society gets richer, not just parts of the society. So maybe inequality and poverty are part of the problem, but even that seems not a complete picture. I think it is deeper societal problem that is not easy to pinpoint.
EDIT:typo
Oh, the US has a very, very high murder per capita rate, and they're not exactly a third-world country. They're like fighting in the top ten along South Africa and Mexico. So yeah, I think you can kind of blame guns.
People blaming gun control for violence have very little experience with statistics and scientific thought. I understand that it is a political issue, therefore facts aren't weighed as heavily, but it is really folly to say something like "US has more guns than europe and more crime, guns cause crime."
Since the figures are per capita, it's kind of skewed in the US because of the way the metropolitan areas are considered. St. Louis, in particular, holds 11% of the population of its urban area. Other cities have similar figures, with Detroit at 16%, New Orleans at 27%, and Baltimore at 23%. More murders in a particular city can be disguised by higher populations in the urban core areas.
I also wonder how they differentiate between "murder", as in "I killed this guy because he got in a fight with me", or acts of war, as in "I killed this guy because he is an enemy combatant." I'll bet a lot of the deaths in Africa are mostly war related as opposed to just murders as we know them elsewhere. Based on what's going on in Mexico right now, some of those deaths could probably be considered war related too.
On January 16 2012 13:58 DanceOnCreep wrote: Maybe the next Hostel Movie should be in the U.S or America :D
Europe seems to be pretty Educated and fine ^^
Europe seems pretty educated, so I guess the US seems uneducated. :/
Seriously, why the hell is this thread still open? First of all, the list is horribly inaccurate and not even close to a real representation of the most violent cities. Second of all, everyone is repeating the same stuff from 15 pages ago, "wow latin america has a lot of murders." "how come X didn't make the list?"
Then you got the morons like this one who show up just to bash on the US or make some point about gun laws...
On January 16 2012 01:46 Darpa wrote: Crazy, Weird how some of the US cities are way up there, even though they seem to be run in the mill cities (Baltimore, St, Louis. Ect). New orleans was a big shock. Other than those, not a whole lot of suprises.
The only one that surprised me is St. Louis. The other three are pretty well known for large amount of crime. Detroit was the murder capital of the word for a while iirc. I hadn't heard the same about St. Louis.
East St. Louis is one of the worst places in the world. If you just randomly woke up there one day you'd be shocked to know you were in the US.
On January 16 2012 13:58 DanceOnCreep wrote: Maybe the next Hostel Movie should be in the U.S or America :D
Europe seems to be pretty Educated and fine ^^
Or, its just harder to get into Europe.
Half these cities would drop off the list if the US could get its drug importation problem under control.
Not that I agree with his rather ironically uneducated post But Europe has longer and harder to patrol borders and easier to cross seas. That is definitely not the reason
EPT
