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On December 01 2011 06:02 HereAndNow wrote:
3) Buy from a store rather than online. Returning a game within a few day sis usually a full refund, or at least in-store credit.
Where in the world can you get a full refund or full credit-value for an opened game?
I'm not aware of a single place here in Canada that does that, specifically because of the likelihood that a game that's been opened has been copied and you're just trying to get your money back for a game you JUST pirated.
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If everyone pirated, we'd collapse the industry overnight. What you're saying by pirating is that you're entitled to all the great spoils of gaming without paying any of the price. You are a leech.
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On December 01 2011 06:07 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:02 HereAndNow wrote:
3) Buy from a store rather than online. Returning a game within a few day sis usually a full refund, or at least in-store credit. Where in the world can you get a full refund or full credit-value for an opened game? I'm not aware of a single place here in Canada that does that, specifically because of the likelihood that a game that's been opened has been copied and you're just trying to get your money back for a game you JUST pirated.
United States. Midwest. My local Gamestop will take it back if it's been opened and you give them a good reason. They'll check the disc, look at the receipt, and credit you.
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On December 01 2011 05:43 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 05:40 jj33 wrote:On December 01 2011 05:39 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 05:31 Karnage77 wrote:
So many people here trying to justify stealing to ease their guilty minds. You are without permission, taking intellectual property that the owner intended to sell. If you don't have the money then you shouldn't have it.
We have access to gameplay footage on Youtube, tons of reviews, Blockbuster rentals, downloadable demos, and Gamefly. Don't tell me you don't know what game you're buying and need to just "test" it out via piracy (play the entire campaign). Same applies to music. Just because the song has the ability to be reproduced in a non-physical manner does not mean that you aren't stealing. They are SELLING entertainment. Are you not entertained? And there are so many people trying to defend companys who again and again make shitty content just for the sake of making money. Quality or happy customers are just a Bi-product in a best case scenario for these people. I do not understand how anyone can defend companys like Activision, Ubisoft or EA for all the shit they have pulled through the years. Piracy is the perfect method to tell a company to fuck off because it is the only way to target the only thing they care about, the money. that's a copout. if these game companies made the best game ever etc and did everything perfectly, people would still pirate the hell out of the games. No, then they would get a pat on the back (the pat in this case being my money) and a job well done so they can make more games.
Wrong.
People would still pirate it.
If the game is so bad, then don't buy it and play it.
LIke I said nice try at justifying it.
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Blockbuster died because they did not adapt to the market.
The reality is the market has advanced too much for companies to keep up. For example, I must pay most of my games in US dollars or at a dollarized price which makes games prohibitive to the average folk. If the same game can be obtained for free people chooses the second option.
The only way the companies can reduce piracy is by offering quality goods with competitive pricing and good customer support which sincerly does not happen in this industry. I have very long stories on dealing with American companies with average games and lousy cs.
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On November 30 2011 22:28 Neo7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 22:24 Interloper wrote:
Many people who pirate do so because they want to try a game out. If they enjoy the game, they will buy it too support the developer. 4,5 million downloads becomes a useless figure since you can not in any way know how many of those 4,5 million purchased the game afterwards. I feel that piracy is a good way to get rid of shitty developers how make crappy games only for the sake of making money (Well all developers want to make money ofc, but i hope you get my point). Good developers get the money they need and then some. Piracy will not be the end of gaming. This is the most common reason that has been given to me but more than often the person is also an expert at procrastination and gives the "oh I'll buy it later excuse". In the case of single player games, what usually winds up happening is that they'll beat the game and it becomes forgotten on their computers. Either way, I'd be willing to be a huge chunk of those who pirated wouldn't have bothered buying the game if piracy wasn't an option in the first place (in which case nothing would have been lost anyway). I would rather prefer to see game demos be more prominent to get rid of that whole "I wanted to try the game" excuse.
Maybe for some, but I do buy them whenever I have the money available and it was a good game.
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On December 01 2011 05:56 chickenhawk wrote:Show nested quote +You know, this is really simple, and people really tend to overcomplicate this shit.
Is stealing bad: Yes or No. If Yes, then pirating is bad. If No, then pirating isn't bad.
Pirating is stealing, plain and simple. People keep making ridiculous arguments like "I couldn't afford to buy it anyway, so it isn't hurting them anyway for me to pirate it." Well guess what? When it comes to other goods, if you can't afford it, YOU DON'T BENEFIT FROM IT. When you pirate you're benefiting from someone's work and not giving them anything in exchange for their work, and it hurts innovation.
People deserve to benefit from their work, and the more their work is used, the more they deserve to benefit from it. In my country pirating is not stealing, in order to steal you must use, take or keep other person property. The property must be tangible. The general rule is that if you are preventing the owner from using the thing you have, you are stealing.
There is no country where piracy and stealing are the same thing in the eyes of the law.
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Also all the people saying "i buy the game if it's good". You are sellouts.
I pirate games because I can. I don't buy them if I don't have to. I rock.
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On December 01 2011 06:02 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 05:49 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 05:45 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 05:39 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 05:31 Karnage77 wrote:
So many people here trying to justify stealing to ease their guilty minds. You are without permission, taking intellectual property that the owner intended to sell. If you don't have the money then you shouldn't have it.
We have access to gameplay footage on Youtube, tons of reviews, Blockbuster rentals, downloadable demos, and Gamefly. Don't tell me you don't know what game you're buying and need to just "test" it out via piracy (play the entire campaign). Same applies to music. Just because the song has the ability to be reproduced in a non-physical manner does not mean that you aren't stealing. They are SELLING entertainment. Are you not entertained? And there are so many people trying to defend companys who again and again make shitty content just for the sake of making money. Quality or happy customers are just a Bi-product in a best case scenario for these people. I do not understand how anyone can defend companys like Activision, Ubisoft or EA for all the shit they have pulled through the years. Piracy is the perfect method to tell a company to fuck off because it is the only way to target the only thing they care about, the money. Really? Your argument is "it's a shitty game, but I want to play it anyway"? No. If you think a game is crap, don't play it at all. Don't pirate it, don't buy it. Playing it in any way is showing them that you want to play it. If a game goes un-bought and un-pirated, they'll know it's shit. Don't act like you're some kind of Robin Hood trying to stick it to the man. They're providing a product that you don't like, but don't have to partake in. You're a stealing bastard, you're not teaching a lesson or anything. How am i to know it's a bad game if i can't take it for a test drive? The advertisment for the game is through the roof, everyone is talking about the game and how awesome it will be and every site who was able to play the game and write a review pre-release praises the game. Game comes out, i pay 50-70$ for it, and guess what it's shit. It's impossible to get a non biased view of the game if you don't play it yourself. Alright, here's a list of things you can do. 1) Go to Blockbuster, get a membership. You now have access to game rentals for a very reasonable rate. 2) Find a local Redbox. $2 a day for games. If you hate it, return it after a day. 3) Buy from a store rather than online. Returning a game within a few day sis usually a full refund, or at least in-store credit. 4) Play a demo. A good chunk of games nowadays have demos available. Not all, but many. 5) Play at a demo kiosk. Best Buy, Gamestop, Target, Walmart, and many other stores have these available for you to play on. 6) Wait on buying it until the price comes down. This is usually a month or two. If it's a game you're not for sure buying first day, you can usually afford to wait a few more weeks. 7) Find someone who has it, maybe a friend, or make friends who game. Play with them. And many more. There are ways to play games legally without buying them. And if you don't think you want to play a game... you don't have to have it. Just don't buy it, it won't kill you.
1) I can't find any info regarding Blockbuster in sweden
2) Same with redbox.
3) Sure this could work i guess, but most places around here have a policy. If you opend the packaging of something you can't return it.
4) I did not find any demos for say, Skyrim or any of the Fallout games and so on. They are VERY limited.
5) A store setup demo is a way to do it. If you feel like stalking a store for several days hoping they will put in the game you maybe want to buy.
6) This point is true, but it's never fun to be out of the loop on something.
7) Same thing as with #6
Points 6-7 are the only ones i find do able and work in most cases but not all.
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On December 01 2011 06:09 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:07 Nemireck wrote:On December 01 2011 06:02 HereAndNow wrote:
3) Buy from a store rather than online. Returning a game within a few day sis usually a full refund, or at least in-store credit. Where in the world can you get a full refund or full credit-value for an opened game? I'm not aware of a single place here in Canada that does that, specifically because of the likelihood that a game that's been opened has been copied and you're just trying to get your money back for a game you JUST pirated. United States. Midwest. My local Gamestop will take it back if it's been opened and you give them a good reason. They'll check the disc, look at the receipt, and credit you.
Yeah, Gamestop for me as well, but on the West Coast. They seem to be pretty good nation-wide.
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Gaming is trying to appeal to everyone and ends up being boring. What made Brood War so amazing was it existed in it's own universe. The control was kinda like Red Alert in some ways, and completely unique otherwise. It was hard as hell though. And the computer whopped you more times than you'd like to admit. But you'd stick with it. See what was on the other side. We've had several thousand games released since BW, but we're still sticking with this one. Obviously content creators aren't delivering what we want the most. You need to take a risk and not rely on graphics and gimmicks. Shadow of the Colossus pulled it off. Street Fighter 3:Third Strike did as well. Ridge Racer 6 didn't. Rethink your approach. I'd GLADLY pay money for a game. Though the last game I enjoyed was Shadow of the Colossus, and that was 4 years ago.
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Piracy would probably lose some momentum if more games offered the trial experience.
Lets you know if your system can/cannot handle the game.
Lets you know if you even LIKE the game.
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On December 01 2011 06:10 dementrio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 05:56 chickenhawk wrote:You know, this is really simple, and people really tend to overcomplicate this shit.
Is stealing bad: Yes or No. If Yes, then pirating is bad. If No, then pirating isn't bad.
Pirating is stealing, plain and simple. People keep making ridiculous arguments like "I couldn't afford to buy it anyway, so it isn't hurting them anyway for me to pirate it." Well guess what? When it comes to other goods, if you can't afford it, YOU DON'T BENEFIT FROM IT. When you pirate you're benefiting from someone's work and not giving them anything in exchange for their work, and it hurts innovation.
People deserve to benefit from their work, and the more their work is used, the more they deserve to benefit from it. In my country pirating is not stealing, in order to steal you must use, take or keep other person property. The property must be tangible. The general rule is that if you are preventing the owner from using the thing you have, you are stealing. There is no country where piracy and stealing are the same thing in the eyes of the law.
So far as I'm aware, piracy is most often treated as a form of copyright infringement. Specifically, making pirated materials available for acquisition.
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Some industries function in a way such that they are inherently limited in their success. Some industries do not have these inherent problems and are not as limited in their success.
Perhaps digital media like this is just not a highly successful business model, but just an okay one.
I understand they want to protect their industry and it certainly makes sense to combat things that threaten their success, but at what point do you just consider the model fundamentally, and irreconcilably flawed?
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On December 01 2011 06:10 ManBearPigNL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 22:28 Neo7 wrote:On November 30 2011 22:24 Interloper wrote:
Many people who pirate do so because they want to try a game out. If they enjoy the game, they will buy it too support the developer. 4,5 million downloads becomes a useless figure since you can not in any way know how many of those 4,5 million purchased the game afterwards. I feel that piracy is a good way to get rid of shitty developers how make crappy games only for the sake of making money (Well all developers want to make money ofc, but i hope you get my point). Good developers get the money they need and then some. Piracy will not be the end of gaming. This is the most common reason that has been given to me but more than often the person is also an expert at procrastination and gives the "oh I'll buy it later excuse". In the case of single player games, what usually winds up happening is that they'll beat the game and it becomes forgotten on their computers. Either way, I'd be willing to be a huge chunk of those who pirated wouldn't have bothered buying the game if piracy wasn't an option in the first place (in which case nothing would have been lost anyway). I would rather prefer to see game demos be more prominent to get rid of that whole "I wanted to try the game" excuse. Maybe for some, but I do buy them whenever I have the money available and it was a good game.
Yeah yeah, everyone who pirates says this. How many of them actually do? Of course, anonymity of the internet and what not, so we can't tell, but still.
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On December 01 2011 06:09 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 05:43 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 05:40 jj33 wrote:On December 01 2011 05:39 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 05:31 Karnage77 wrote:
So many people here trying to justify stealing to ease their guilty minds. You are without permission, taking intellectual property that the owner intended to sell. If you don't have the money then you shouldn't have it.
We have access to gameplay footage on Youtube, tons of reviews, Blockbuster rentals, downloadable demos, and Gamefly. Don't tell me you don't know what game you're buying and need to just "test" it out via piracy (play the entire campaign). Same applies to music. Just because the song has the ability to be reproduced in a non-physical manner does not mean that you aren't stealing. They are SELLING entertainment. Are you not entertained? And there are so many people trying to defend companys who again and again make shitty content just for the sake of making money. Quality or happy customers are just a Bi-product in a best case scenario for these people. I do not understand how anyone can defend companys like Activision, Ubisoft or EA for all the shit they have pulled through the years. Piracy is the perfect method to tell a company to fuck off because it is the only way to target the only thing they care about, the money. that's a copout. if these game companies made the best game ever etc and did everything perfectly, people would still pirate the hell out of the games. No, then they would get a pat on the back (the pat in this case being my money) and a job well done so they can make more games. Wrong. People would still pirate it. If the game is so bad, then don't buy it and play it. LIke I said nice try at justifying it.
Again, i only pirate games to see if they are good or not. If good, i buy it. If its bad i delete the thing and i'm still able to spend my 60$ on another game from a better developer. I don't see how this makes me close to the most vile evil thing in the world. And if you don't think that people actualy spend money on a game they have already priated, you are wrong.
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I pirated skyrim and I'm loving every min of it.
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On December 01 2011 06:17 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:09 jj33 wrote:On December 01 2011 05:43 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 05:40 jj33 wrote:On December 01 2011 05:39 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 05:31 Karnage77 wrote:
So many people here trying to justify stealing to ease their guilty minds. You are without permission, taking intellectual property that the owner intended to sell. If you don't have the money then you shouldn't have it.
We have access to gameplay footage on Youtube, tons of reviews, Blockbuster rentals, downloadable demos, and Gamefly. Don't tell me you don't know what game you're buying and need to just "test" it out via piracy (play the entire campaign). Same applies to music. Just because the song has the ability to be reproduced in a non-physical manner does not mean that you aren't stealing. They are SELLING entertainment. Are you not entertained? And there are so many people trying to defend companys who again and again make shitty content just for the sake of making money. Quality or happy customers are just a Bi-product in a best case scenario for these people. I do not understand how anyone can defend companys like Activision, Ubisoft or EA for all the shit they have pulled through the years. Piracy is the perfect method to tell a company to fuck off because it is the only way to target the only thing they care about, the money. that's a copout. if these game companies made the best game ever etc and did everything perfectly, people would still pirate the hell out of the games. No, then they would get a pat on the back (the pat in this case being my money) and a job well done so they can make more games. Wrong. People would still pirate it. If the game is so bad, then don't buy it and play it. LIke I said nice try at justifying it. Again, i only pirate games to see if they are good or not. If good, i buy it. If its bad i delete the thing and i'm still able to spend my 60$ on another game from a better developer. I don't see how this makes me close to the most vile evil thing in the world. And if you don't think that people actualy spend money on a game they have already priated, you are wrong.
It's not that you're evil, but people trying to justify piracy as "good" or "right" or even "ok" just need to stop. Even if it's not legally the same, it's stealing, and it's immoral. If you're ok with that, fine, whatever. People just need to stop trying to make it out like they're not doing anything wrong.
It's like cheating on a significant other. It's wrong, you know it's wrong, but if you can justify it to yourself, then whatever. I'll never do it, but if you realize that what you're doing is wrong and can accept that, go for it.
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On December 01 2011 06:14 Befree wrote:
Some industries function in a way such that they are inherently limited in their success. Some industries do not have these inherent problems and are not as limited in their success.
Perhaps digital media like this is just not a highly successful business model, but just an okay one.
I understand they want to protect their industry and it certainly makes sense to combat things that threaten their success, but at what point do you just consider the model fundamentally, and irreconcilably flawed?
Record companies and Game devs work as if we were in the 70s where you could only obtain a vinil record. The "pirating is theft" started when people started duplicating magnetic tapes/disks.
The whole model is outdated. That's why they can't do anything against piracy.
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EPT
