EPTMany people are giving slippery slope arguments in this thread or are trying to act like the protesters are criminal and get what they deserved. If these protesters were threatening or violent in any way, I might agree, but they weren't.
UC Davis Protesters Pepper Sprayed - Page 6
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
Many people are giving slippery slope arguments in this thread or are trying to act like the protesters are criminal and get what they deserved. If these protesters were threatening or violent in any way, I might agree, but they weren't. | ||
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W2
United States1177 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:04 bobocop wrote: Yes, you bend over and take it. Then you let the judge decide if you were arrested lawfully or not. If you were, then the cop did his job, if you werent, you would be compensated and the cop will by reprimanded. Everyone wins in the end. Better to get arrested for something thats not a crime and get everything cleared out later instead of being arrested thats not a crime and making it worse for yourself for resisting and keep piling on more charges. I'm sure it depends. Not too fair if a cop can utter the words "you're under arrest" and whatever you do afterwards you are seen as resisting arrest. | ||
Falling
Canada11349 Posts
On November 21 2011 14:47 BluePanther wrote: Who cares how they decided to break it up. When a police officer asks you to move, you refuse, then they announce you are under arrest, you should do what they say. End of story. Why are protesters immune to the same arrest laws that everyone else is subject to? You're not special. Do what the cop requests... the poor guy is just doing his job, he's not out to make your life miserable. Actually, I think we should very much care how they decide to break it up. It's an indicator of free and just society that lawbreakers are responded to with appropriate force. Caring about the methods of the police is part of what distinguishes us from a police state. Furthermore, it just seems like a bad idea all around as it draws more attention to the protestors and escalates the situation. | ||
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gayfius173
48 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:05 ddrddrddrddr wrote: A bit of peppers pray? You should try some. The apathetic argument is as pointless as those made about water boarding. Try it before you call it insignificant. Obviously you selectively read what I said and missed the part where I have been pepper sprayed. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:10 Yamoth wrote: My question to all the people who agree with this kind of treatment to protester is how fucken hard is it to simple pulling people off from the pack one by one and arresting them. Those people are not going anyway and god know the have enough officer there to gang up on the student one by one and separate them. Retarded action like this is nothing more than extreme aggression in hoping that it will deter future action from taking place. The stupidity in this is that the action taken here is no where extreme enough or was it justifiable to scare people. All this really does is pissed people off even more and painted a giant target on people take participate or allowed this brutality to take place. Harder than you think. You're actually going to do less damage with pepper spray than you are going to do by forcefully removing them. You're almost guaranteed to accidentally sprain an ankle or break a finger when forcibly removing someone 15 times. And none of the officers want to do that on tape. Pepper spray is a simple way to ensure nobody is permanently injured. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:11 carloselcoco wrote: They deserved it. They surrounded the police before getting pepper sprayed. The police was acting in self-defense. The students DID deserve it... This video gives the timeline to the events as they occurred. The students were the ones surrounding the police before the police were forced to remove them by pepper spraying them... around 1:08 you see clearly the police force being surrounded by the students. Yeah, being surrounded by people who aren't doing anything to you is definitely cause for alarm. I should remember to bring a bottle of spray next time I go on the subway. These aren't just random people, these are students that are willingly participating in nonviolent protest. Are you seriously telling me that police in riot gear are afraid of a bunch of college students packing ipads? The hell are they self-defending against? | ||
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gayfius173
48 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:07 Probulous wrote: So I am not allowed to be informed because I am in Australia? What the hell is that shit? I simply pointed out that your post about China has nothing to do with UC. Police are supposed to serve and protect. What exactly were they protecting here? Just because pepperspray is not a tank does not mean that it should be used. Where do you draw the line between reasonable force and brutality if it is just a difference in degree? It is my understanding that police should refrain from hurting people unless it is absolutely necessary. Finally why are you so aggressive? Swearing at me is not going to change my mind, in fact I am less inclined to listen to you. It has everything to do with it when defining what brutality actually is. Pepper spray != brutality. That's the point. But it went over your head. Which isn't too surprising because you're crying that I used a cuss word when you used one first lolol. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:15 gayfius173 wrote: Obviously you selectively read what I said and missed the part where I have been pepper sprayed. People are selectively reading what you say because most of it is dribble that doesn't pertain to anything because you are not trying to make an argument for something. You are just posting generic "other people have it worse!" lines | ||
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woody60707
United States1863 Posts
On November 21 2011 14:49 micronesia wrote: Continuing to violate a law when you have been informed by the police your lawbreaking will result in your arrest is not resisting arrest. I don't have sufficient information to draw conclusions with a high degree of certainty... but what I saw was that police had two choices: start arresting in the way I described (one at a time, no spray unless actually needed) or let the situation escalate and address the group as a whole. The police (in this case) seem to have chosen the latter in order to assert power over the other group (the protesting students). Disrespecting a police officer is a bad idea, but a poor response by a police officer shouldn't be defended. I'm sorry, I guess I didn't make my point very clear. The part you quoted was me being very simplistic with a view I don't 100% hold. My main point was that these people who protest are willing to risk getting arrest to spark interest in the issue they feel are important. It misses the point of the protest when the main topic being talked about is getting arrest and was pepper spray to much force. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:14 Falling wrote: Actually, I think we should very much care how they decide to break it up. It's an indicator of free and just society that lawbreakers are responded to with appropriate force. Caring about the methods of the police is part of what distinguishes us from a police state. Furthermore, it just seems like a bad idea all around as it draws more attention to the protestors and escalates the situation. Ok, bad choice of words on my part. Of course we should care how they do it.... I should rephrase that to "who cares when they use non-violent ways, such as pepper spray" | ||
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gayfius173
48 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:16 SafeAsCheese wrote: People are selectively reading what you say because most of it is dribble that doesn't pertain to anything because you are not trying to make an argument for something. You are just posting generic "other people have it worse!" lines Yea and the people doing that are ignorant people who have one sided views and don't want to face reality and would rather live in their perception of reality. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
It seems that the protest was not being overly disruptive, particularly by university standards. Why jump the gun and call in the cops?Just seems like an over reaction to something which didn't need an over reaction. | ||
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nohbrows
United States653 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:16 BluePanther wrote: Harder than you think. You're actually going to do less damage with pepper spray than you are going to do by forcefully removing them. You're almost guaranteed to accidentally sprain an ankle or break a finger when forcibly removing someone 15 times. And none of the officers want to do that on tape. Pepper spray is a simple way to ensure nobody is permanently injured. Unfortunately, the immediate emotional impact of seeing someone being peppersprayed is a lot more powerful than just breaking fingers.If you're being pulled apart, and you got you're fingers broken cuz you refused to let go, you lose sympathy points (at least IMO) because you were dumb enough to keep holding on. I mean, there is a point at which you just let go. The officers would have taken less flak for just pulling them apart than macing them. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:15 gayfius173 wrote: Obviously you selectively read what I said and missed the part where I have been pepper sprayed. I wonder what you were doing when you were sprayed and what kind of spray it was. Were you continuously sprayed repeatedly for no reason? You're just arguing that it's not brutality unless someone bleeds, which would justify all types of things that the police can do. | ||
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gayfius173
48 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:19 nohbrows wrote: Unfortunately, the immediate emotional impact of seeing someone being peppersprayed is a lot more powerful than just breaking fingers.If you're being pulled apart, and you got you're fingers broken cuz you refused to let go, you lose sympathy points (at least IMO) because you were dumb enough to keep holding on. I mean, there is a point at which you just let go. The officers would have taken less flak for just pulling them apart than macing them. QFT. And that's what's funny about this entire thread. People crying 'brutality' for the use of pepper spray that does NO LASTING HARM, yet saying the police should of physically pulled them apart which is more likely to result in actual bodily injury. It's ironic, hypocritcal, and plain stupid what people are saying in that regard. | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:16 BluePanther wrote: Harder than you think. You're actually going to do less damage with pepper spray than you are going to do by forcefully removing them. You're almost guaranteed to accidentally sprain an ankle or break a finger when forcibly removing someone 15 times. And none of the officers want to do that on tape. Pepper spray is a simple way to ensure nobody is permanently injured. It is harder when the people you are arresting is violently resisting arrest. What happen here is there the police where arresting protester one by one like they supposed to do before they got surrounded by more student; got scared and over-respond to the situation. I remembered this hold Chinese quote going something like, "kill one to warn thousands other". The correct action here would be to either continue to arrest protester like they did before more people showed up or back off and reassemble when they get more officer on ground or the mob cleared out some. This have nothing to do with the right or wrong and everything to do with the officers being scared and over-react. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:19 nohbrows wrote: Unfortunately, the immediate emotional impact of seeing someone being peppersprayed is a lot more powerful than just breaking fingers.If you're being pulled apart, and you got you're fingers broken cuz you refused to let go, you lose sympathy points (at least IMO) because you were dumb enough to keep holding on. I mean, there is a point at which you just let go. The officers would have taken less flak for just pulling them apart than macing them. Well, that's personal opinion. Me, I'd rather see them pepper spray and suffer a little for their disobedience. Plus it has the added benefit of not actually hurting them in the long term. | ||
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Eun_Star
United States322 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:52 FallDownMarigold wrote: 1) College is expensive, and some students rightfully want to go to class. 2) Students protesting on that pathway are blocking students from going to class. 3) Students won't move as requested; students are warned but don't move. Result: Students are sprayed. Notice how the reason for which they were protesting isn't even important? It just matters that they were doing something totally and obviously wrong by loitering in a pathway, and they knew it too in order to prove a point. If they can't take the consequences they should think first. That "pathway" runs along the middle of the quad surrounded by grass, and I can tell you this: these students did NOT block ANY students from going to class. The incident took place at around 3:30~4:00 and most students are already off campus. In fact, there's absolutely no reason to use this pathway to go to class. I'm a current student in UCD. It was completely unnecessary to use the pepper spray on these students. Suitemate of mine was arrested+walked out of the protest with a nerve damage in his left arm. He's an artist and we're heading towards the last 3 weeks of school (including finals), so I am quite worried about his condition that may directly affect his academics. Look, 81% increase in tuition is INSANE. I'll be out of here within 2 years and this increase probably won't affect me as much (at least for undergraduate studies), but I have a brother in high school who will be paying almost twice as much tuition when he attends college. My parents are already struggling with helping us (my sister and I) pay for our education. The situation could have been "better." We are simply outraged at HOW the police handled the situation. Please don't make wild assumptions and type out words/sentences that may offend those who are involved with the protests. We are trying to let our voices be heard. To my fellow UC Davis students, see you tomorrow at 12! I'll make sure to be there. This one will be big. | ||
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W2
United States1177 Posts
On November 21 2011 14:47 BluePanther wrote: Do what the cop requests... the poor guy is just doing his job, he's not out to make your life miserable. Sure, maybe if you were a hot white chick with big boobies. In the world we live in though, cops are dicks. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On November 21 2011 15:22 Yamoth wrote: It is harder when the people you are arresting is violently resisting arrest. What happen here is there the police where arresting protester one by one like they supposed to do before they got surrounded by more student; got scared and over-respond to the situation. I remembered this hold Chinese quote going something like, "kill one to warn thousands other". The correct action here would be to either continue to arrest protester like they did before more people showed up or back off and reassemble when they get more officer on ground or the mob cleared out some. This have nothing to do with the right or wrong and everything to do with the officers being scared and over-react. Which officer looked scared to you? Did you see any footage of the officers attempting to get out of the crowd? How about some examples of those violently resisting arrest? Did the officer who did the spraying look like he was acting out of instinct and fear? | ||
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