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Serpico
4285 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:35 hmunkey wrote: It is pretty much impossible for SOPA to actually become law. Come on guys... That's the kind of attitude that makes people get complacent though. | ||
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:35 hmunkey wrote: It is pretty much impossible for SOPA to actually become law. Come on guys... if you have not keep track of the situation: there has been around 20-24/40 voters willing to PASS the bill with out debating. They simply stayed silent, no debate and just simply voted no to every changes people suggested to change/improve the bill. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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Speedohdk
United States13 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:37 plated.rawr wrote: Well, I guess it's good that all the softening amendments are getting rejected. A softer bill might get passed, but the standing SOPA hopefully won't, as it's too controversial in its effects. This is what i was thinking as well. not sure if i should be happy or scared | ||
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CurLy[]
United States759 Posts
This is embarrassing | ||
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Zalithian
520 Posts
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:37 Serpico wrote: That's the kind of attitude that makes people get complacent though. No, you don't actually realize just how hard it would be for this to become law. First it has to get out of the Judiciary Committee, so it'll already be heavily neutered. Then it has to pass the House, where it'll be modified even more. Then it has to pass the Senate where once again it will undergo more changes. Of course now Obama has to sign or veto it. Based on all of his past threats to veto net neutrality bills, it's a safe bet he will. Now the House and Senate both need 2/3rds to push the bill through (likely after even more changes), and getting 2/3rd is already pretty hard. Oh, and even if it does somehow pass there's still the whole issue of judicial review. SOPA is not going to pass in any way unless they change the bill so much it doesn't really resemble what it is today, and even it it somehow magically did pass, it wouldn't go into effect for a very long time. And this is all assuming Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook don't start investing heavily in ensuring it's failure. People are all up in arms because Viacom and NBCUniversal are using lobbyists to push SOPA through. As soon as the giant tech corporations actually consider SOPA a real threat, they'll bring their own lobbyists in. Google is worth ten times what Viacom and NBC's parent company Comcast are, Apple is sitting on more raw cash than any media conglomerate has in all of their assets combined (and is the second largest publicly traded company in the world right now), Facebook has a majority of the population as users (and with that the ability to change policy instantly if it threatens their future), etc. Washington hasn't seen lobbying until the largest tech companies in the world see their interests are truly threatened. The scale would be absurd and it would be suicidal for a politician to go against corporations with as much sway as Google, Apple, Facebook, and so on. The most valuable ad in the world is the text under Google.com's search box. You really think they would sit back and let their entire business model crash? What about Youtube, Twitter, and Facebook, with their millions of hourly users? It's long been said that the most powerful lobby in Washington is the military. I would argue that if SOPA actually made it out of the House, we'd suddenly have a lobbying effort on a comparable scale with massive communication to the public. Companies with combined values of trillions are not going to let that slide away. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:41 hmunkey wrote: No, you don't actually realize just how hard it would be for this to become law. First it has to get out of the Judiciary Committee, so it'll already be heavily neutered. Then it has to pass the House, where it'll be modified even more. Then it has to pass the Senate where once again it will undergo more changes. Of course now Obama has to sign or veto it. Based on all of his past threats to veto net neutrality bills, it's a safe bet he will. Now the House and Senate both need 2/3rds to push the bill through (likely after even more changes), and getting 2/3rd is already pretty hard. Oh, and even if it does somehow pass there's still the whole issue of judicial review. SOPA is not going to pass in any way unless they change the bill so much it doesn't really resemble what it is today, and even it it somehow magically did pass, it wouldn't go into effect for a very long time. And this is all assuming Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook don't start investing heavily in ensuring it's failure. People are all up in arms because Viacom and NBCUniversal are using lobbyists to push SOPA through. As soon as the giant tech corporations actually consider SOPA a real threat, they'll bring their own lobbyists in. Google is worth ten times what Viacom and NBC's parent company Comcast are, Apple is sitting on more raw cash than any media conglomerate has in all of their assets combined (and is the second largest publicly traded company in the world right now), Facebook has a majority of the population as users (and with that the ability to change policy instantly if it threatens their future), etc. Washington hasn't seen lobbying until the largest tech companies in the world see their interests are truly threatened. The scale would be absurd and it would be suicidal for a politician to go against corporations with as much sway as Google, Apple, Facebook, and so on. The most valuable ad in the world is the text under Google.com's search box. You really think they would sit back and let their entire business model crash? What about Youtube, Twitter, and Facebook, with their millions of hourly users? It's long been said that the most powerful lobby in Washington is the military. I would argue that if SOPA actually made it out of the House, we'd suddenly have a lobbying effort on a comparable scale with massive communication to the public. Companies with combined values of trillions are not going to let that slide away. Yes...but you dont stop trying to kill it before it has to go through all those processes. | ||
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Xarik
United States19 Posts
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RoKetha
United States211 Posts
The reason I'm asking this is because there is a huge difference between being able to get to any site by manually typing in its IP and having a publicly available, virally distributed, regularly updated DNS table circulating around the internet designed to bypass the blacklist. SOPA would make it illegal to have a DNS server in the US that did not obey the blacklist, but there's no possible way they could shut down a viral movement to spread "the uncensored internet" to everyone. Edit: I mean viral in the sense that the media uses it, of course; not an actual virus changing everyone's local DNS. | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:43 Serpico wrote: Yes...but you dont stop trying to kill it before it has to go through all those processes. Okay, but my point still stands. SOPA won't pass. It's impossible. There is far too much on the line for any such bill to pass. Corporations funding lobbyists and politicians is a huge problem, but none of that lobbying can even compare to the scale of what would happen if SOPA even got close to passing. Like I said, corporations worth trillions of dollars, with direct access to the majority of the voting public, will do everything in their power to stop it. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:45 hmunkey wrote: Okay, but my point still stands. SOPA won't pass. It's impossible. There is far too much on the line for any such bill to pass. Corporations funding lobbyists and politicians is a huge problem, but none of that lobbying can even compare to the scale of what would happen if SOPA even got close to passing. Like I said, corporations worth trillions of dollars, with direct access to the majority of the voting public, will do everything in their power to stop it. It's not impossible though, that's the whole point. Is it UNLIKELY? Sure, but I'd rather see people do the most they can regardless. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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xAPOCALYPSEx
1418 Posts
too bad it doesn't matter to these idiots | ||
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Zionner
Scotland112 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:46 Serpico wrote: It's not impossible though, that's the whole point. Is it UNLIKELY? Sure, but I'd rather see people do the most they can regardless. Well said! =) | ||
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driftme
United States360 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:47 Kazeyonoma wrote: who awhoa whoa, this guy talking is discussing onion, and other sites. the guy representing sanchez is obviously the most educated person on this entire council. That's been clear since his opening statement =] | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
"This law would be like trying to neutralize a crack house and instead of taking down the crack house,you take the streets signs away and hope the people won't find the way to it." | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:46 Serpico wrote: It's not impossible though, that's the whole point. Is it UNLIKELY? Sure, but I'd rather see people do the most they can regardless. It's impossible. It's more impossible than any piece of legislation that's ever been proposed in the last decade. Literally the only thing that could compare would be a hypothetical ban on oil imports -- but everyone knows that's ridiculous and impossible. How is this any different? The internet drives our economy now and the companies that are threatened by this have the same absurdly high amounts of money. Google and Facebook alone could decide elections if they wanted. | ||
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