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On November 08 2011 07:33 suejak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 23:39 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On November 07 2011 23:36 Robinsa wrote:On November 07 2011 23:31 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On November 07 2011 23:14 Robinsa wrote:On November 07 2011 22:22 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On November 07 2011 19:44 grobo wrote:
To the other people that are studying Japanese on the site, am i not supposed to write the words in kanji?
For example when they want me to write Refrigerator i write 冷蔵庫 but it says it's wrong? and it happens every time
i write the kanji for a word. I started trying to input in Japanese because I was getting frustrated with having to memorize the romanization that was saved for each word, and I think I figured out what's going on here. When you enter a Japanese word in Windows, you have three stages: You enter the word, then you select the characters to render it, then you finalize it. If you click on "submit" before the word is finalized (if it's still underlined and you can select different kanji by hitting the space bar), then the characters aren't submitted properly and it counts as an error. Just make sure you hit <enter> before you submit. I'm a bit annoyed by some things about this page the more I use it. There seems to only be one halfway decent set for Japanese, and it's not at a very high level (JLPT level 2), and the words in it are inconsistent. Sometimes I only get shown the kanji for a word, and sometimes the kanji are rendered with the hiragana pronunciation right next to them. There seems to be no option to drill just on the words without kanji or just on the kanji without pronunciation. Also, the mnemonics are horrible and mostly rely on memorizing some kind of mispronunciation of the word to make it sound like English, which is a horrible habit. I'm still pretty impressed with the software, though. It just needs better content, and the flashcard format needs to be made a bit better to allow more options. Ive only tried the N1 quiz and it works fine for me except theres a lot of pretty basic words included that I think is N2 level. Other than that its fine and I see none of this "inconsistancy" at all. Am I missing something? I only saw one N1 list, and it had a really small number of words in it, like 100. Can you share a link to the list you found? http://www.memrise.com/set/10001757/n1/ This is the one I use. Its called N1 単語 and has 766 words in it. A bit too few considering N1 should hold atleast 1000+ new words from N2. And Im sure that there are N2 words included in the words. Oh cool, thanks! Now I want an option to combine word lists... Also, it would be really cool if more than one person could have write access to a word list. I bet the TL Japanese student community could band together to make a really excellent set of cards for at least the various noryokushiken levels. I'm taking the N1 test next month, and I gotta say, you CANNOT rely on the definitions given for that word list. I was suspicious of 成果 as "accomplishment/achievement" -- which isn't wrong, but isn't quite right. However, when it said that ~系 means "system," I knew I had to stop before I got corrupted. Obviously it's hard to convert such versatile kanji into a simple English definition, but it's just not useful to memorize the meaning "system". I mean, you'll generally encounter this in structures like アフリカ系アメリカ人, and it obviously doesn't mean "system" there. Honestly, this is not useful. If you want to learn a language, get books and study. These games may make you feel like you're making progress, because playing a game is easier than studying, but the "meanings" they assign the words and phrases are completely without context and really totally useless -- at least in such a context-dependent language. That's my warning, anyway. Good luck.
Ive passed 1kyu and I find no more problem with these translations than I do with the ones that exist in most textbooks. Often you cant find a corresponding word in English to a word in Japanese since they often have slightly different meanings depending on the situation. Maybe result would be a better translation for 成果 but I dont think achivement is that far off the mark. The same goes for 系 that does indeed mean system/sort/group/type. What about Windows系OS or 太陽系? In the latter its obviously system.
I agree that I think youre doing yourself a great disservice if you only try to learn the words by remembering them to fixed counterparts in English. Words change in meaning depending on how you use them. The best way to learn words properly (if thats your goal) is proboably to read a lot. But I guess you have to learn one meaning of the word to start with before you can get that "feeling" for the word. 
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^^^ This
The best way is to read alot, but this site is purely for vocabulary building/reinforcement ONLY as mentioned in the OP.
If you feel that a definition is wrong, you have the option of ignoring the word I believe during the planting/harvesting sessions.
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Yeah, there's always an issue that words are difficult to translate 1:1, which is why I memorized a lot of completed sentences when I was learning Japanese. But you can't complain when pre-made flashcards don't have every meaning of a word in them; the first 200 or so kanji cards I made for myself, I literally put every kunyomi and every onyomi along with every meaning from the Nelsons on the cards, and some characters like 上 were just completely impossible for me to learn because they have so many possible meanings. It's better in my mind just to learn one thing that a word can mean, and then broaden and refine your understanding of the word by exposing yourself to it in its real context.
Also, you can't complain that a translation is imperfect; you're never going to get a perfect definition of lots of Japanese words in English. What English word means precisely "元気"?
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Is it possible to somehow "play" other languages than the demo ones? I'd like to work on my english vocab.. tried the spanish demo and I love it.
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>> I'm taking the N1 test next month, and I gotta say, you CANNOT rely on the definitions given for that word list. I was suspicious of 成果 as "accomplishment/achievement" -- which isn't wrong, but isn't quite right. However, when it said that ~系 means "system," I knew I had to stop before I got corrupted.
> Ive passed 1kyu and I find no more problem with these translations than I do with the ones that exist in most textbooks.
[Memrise co-founder here]
These are really good points. Language and translation is such a subtle and thorny business. When we first launched, we let pretty much anyone edit anything. That had a lot of good aspects, because it meant that you'd have been able to change that word.
However, it also meant that some of the content we'd worked with native speakers and professional translators to add was getting mangled.
Now, the permissions are much tighter, and we are building up a core set of carefully-moderated words and definitions that we trust, merging and modifying as we go. As you can imagine, this is slower, and hasn't reached Japanese yet. If you wanted to help, even in a small way, leave a comment in the 'discussion' tab for the word, e.g.
http://www.memrise.com/item/670747/system-lineage-group/
and one of the other Japanese volunteers will probably answer and make the change for you! I hope that addresses your concern a little.
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On November 08 2011 18:57 michielbrands wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 17:50 x2mirko wrote:On Nov 8 2011 08:46 michielbrands wrote:already learn over 150 French words, practised my ass of yesterday, tested myself today, but works great, definitly planning to keep this up Would be so handy when I am on holiday to French and I could actually communicate with the French  Wish there was a site like these, but then where you also could make complete phrases, so you would get more insight I don't think anybody is stopping you from doing that on memrise.com :D For norwegian there is a wordlist that also has some common phrases. Problem is I don't know that much phrases in French, I am altough planning to make a Dutch - French wordlist
Any chance of more Dutch->English..I started the biggest (1000 word) one yesterday and im already 150words in.
Shoutout to TL eating all the ladder points, go go TL :D
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On November 08 2011 22:13 gregdetre wrote:>> I'm taking the N1 test next month, and I gotta say, you CANNOT rely on the definitions given for that word list. I was suspicious of 成果 as "accomplishment/achievement" -- which isn't wrong, but isn't quite right. However, when it said that ~系 means "system," I knew I had to stop before I got corrupted. > Ive passed 1kyu and I find no more problem with these translations than I do with the ones that exist in most textbooks. [Memrise co-founder here] These are really good points. Language and translation is such a subtle and thorny business. When we first launched, we let pretty much anyone edit anything. That had a lot of good aspects, because it meant that you'd have been able to change that word. However, it also meant that some of the content we'd worked with native speakers and professional translators to add was getting mangled. Now, the permissions are much tighter, and we are building up a core set of carefully-moderated words and definitions that we trust, merging and modifying as we go. As you can imagine, this is slower, and hasn't reached Japanese yet. If you wanted to help, even in a small way, leave a comment in the 'discussion' tab for the word, e.g. http://www.memrise.com/item/670747/system-lineage-group/and one of the other Japanese volunteers will probably answer and make the change for you! I hope that addresses your concern a little.
Edit: suejak seems to be a snob who feels smart doing these questions.
I don't really know what was he complaining about. No matter what method you use to learn, be it formal classes or self study methods, nobody will give the complete definition for each word. Just look at your own dictionary, for any simple word the explanation of it's meaning is a few lines long.
Imagine giving this to every English student :
car [kɑː]
n
1. (Engineering / Automotive Engineering)
a. Also called motorcar automobile a self-propelled road vehicle designed to carry passengers, esp one with four wheels that is powered by an internal-combustion engine
b. (as modifier) car coat
2. a conveyance for passengers, freight, etc., such as a cable car or the carrier of an airship or balloon
3. (Transport / Railways) Brit a railway vehicle for passengers only, such as a sleeping car or buffet car
4. (Transport / Railways) Chiefly US and Canadian a railway carriage or van
5. Chiefly US the enclosed platform of a lift
6. a poetic word for chariot
[from Anglo-French carre, ultimately related to Latin carra, carrum two-wheeled wagon, probably of Celtic origin; compare Old Irish carr]
As you can see giving the full definition of a word or memorising it in a game like this is completely stupid.
Eventually sentences can be provided and explanations of the usage and meaning of the word in different contexts to make it a more complete education but let's face it : It's free and we are all learning and befiniting from the gaming/competition element.
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Error 503 - Server is at capacity. 
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In the Mandarin sections, is there a way to see the pinyin after you give a correct answer when you are "watering your plants"? For example, it shows a character and when you write in the correct English you get a confirmation and hear the word pronounced, but it would be cool to also see the pinyin displayed for confirmation.
I ask because there is a "show/hide pinyin" button on the left side during these exercises, but it seems to have no effect that I can see.
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TL-SeinGalton; This is brilliant by the way - I don't expect to learn an entire language, but it's giving me an excellent stepping stone into Spanish and it's really quite fun to do. I'm very much a fan of gamifying education.
Thanks OP and thank you Memrise!
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How can I delete mandarin from my wordlist and add korean instead? I didn't find the Korea option when I first registered.
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On November 08 2011 22:15 LightTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 18:57 michielbrands wrote:On November 08 2011 17:50 x2mirko wrote:On Nov 8 2011 08:46 michielbrands wrote:already learn over 150 French words, practised my ass of yesterday, tested myself today, but works great, definitly planning to keep this up Would be so handy when I am on holiday to French and I could actually communicate with the French Wish there was a site like these, but then where you also could make complete phrases, so you would get more insight I don't think anybody is stopping you from doing that on memrise.com :D For norwegian there is a wordlist that also has some common phrases. Problem is I don't know that much phrases in French, I am altough planning to make a Dutch - French wordlist Any chance of more Dutch->English..I started the biggest (1000 word) one yesterday and im already 150words in. Shoutout to TL eating all the ladder points, go go TL :D
I tried one of the dutch tests for fun, turns out it's pretty hard for me to learn from english to dutch, even if I already know the words in dutch , mostly just because the corresponding english translations (although still correct) may not always be what I would use for them.
I think I have some dutch-english // english-dutch dictionaries laying around from my translation studies I attempted some years back, maybe I'll whip a wordlist up from those if I get really bored >_>
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On November 08 2011 23:25 Arnstein wrote:
How can I delete mandarin from my wordlist and add korean instead? I didn't find the Korea option when I first registered.
Go to your dashboard, hover over the wordlist you want to delete and you'll see an X in the top-right corner.
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On November 08 2011 23:33 Tomcattomato wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 22:15 LightTemplar wrote:On November 08 2011 18:57 michielbrands wrote:On November 08 2011 17:50 x2mirko wrote:On Nov 8 2011 08:46 michielbrands wrote:already learn over 150 French words, practised my ass of yesterday, tested myself today, but works great, definitly planning to keep this up Would be so handy when I am on holiday to French and I could actually communicate with the French Wish there was a site like these, but then where you also could make complete phrases, so you would get more insight I don't think anybody is stopping you from doing that on memrise.com :D For norwegian there is a wordlist that also has some common phrases. Problem is I don't know that much phrases in French, I am altough planning to make a Dutch - French wordlist Any chance of more Dutch->English..I started the biggest (1000 word) one yesterday and im already 150words in. Shoutout to TL eating all the ladder points, go go TL :D I tried one of the dutch tests for fun, turns out it's pretty hard for me to learn from english to dutch, even if I already know the words in dutch , mostly just because the corresponding english translations (although still correct) may not always be what I would use for them. I think I have some dutch-english // english-dutch dictionaries laying around from my translation studies I attempted some years back, maybe I'll whip a wordlist up from those if I get really bored >_>
I would really appreciate that And yes you are correct, I've had that problem with a few words ive learned where i tried to use them in a different context to the one that i should such as using mooi for a person etc which i found out is wrong. I think people have to realise that its not a perfect tool and take what they can from whats there.
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Which of the Korean wordlists should I choose?
On November 08 2011 23:35 ulan-bat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 23:25 Arnstein wrote:
How can I delete mandarin from my wordlist and add korean instead? I didn't find the Korea option when I first registered. Go to your dashboard, hover over the wordlist you want to delete and you'll see an X in the top-right corner.
Thanks! I'm so stupid
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Tl-minus, trying French and German
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On November 08 2011 23:36 LightTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 23:33 Tomcattomato wrote:On November 08 2011 22:15 LightTemplar wrote:On November 08 2011 18:57 michielbrands wrote:On November 08 2011 17:50 x2mirko wrote:On Nov 8 2011 08:46 michielbrands wrote:already learn over 150 French words, practised my ass of yesterday, tested myself today, but works great, definitly planning to keep this up Would be so handy when I am on holiday to French and I could actually communicate with the French Wish there was a site like these, but then where you also could make complete phrases, so you would get more insight I don't think anybody is stopping you from doing that on memrise.com :D For norwegian there is a wordlist that also has some common phrases. Problem is I don't know that much phrases in French, I am altough planning to make a Dutch - French wordlist Any chance of more Dutch->English..I started the biggest (1000 word) one yesterday and im already 150words in. Shoutout to TL eating all the ladder points, go go TL :D I tried one of the dutch tests for fun, turns out it's pretty hard for me to learn from english to dutch, even if I already know the words in dutch , mostly just because the corresponding english translations (although still correct) may not always be what I would use for them. I think I have some dutch-english // english-dutch dictionaries laying around from my translation studies I attempted some years back, maybe I'll whip a wordlist up from those if I get really bored >_> I would really appreciate that And yes you are correct, I've had that problem with a few words ive learned where i tried to use them in a different context to the one that i should such as using mooi for a person etc which i found out is wrong. I think people have to realise that its not a perfect tool and take what they can from whats there.
As far as I know you can use "mooi" for a person. Or 99% of dutch people do it wrong... which is also quite plausible.
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EPT
