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On October 28 2011 09:09 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 09:04 zakmaa wrote:
Violence is violence, because it was over his sexual orientation does make it more disturbing, but it should neither heighten nor lower his punishment. Having said that, I do believe that there should be police involvement and charges laid, however that won't happen unless the kid that was beaten tries to get that to happen. See it's statements like this that make me think TL is filled with 12 year olds Poll: How old are you?18 to 25 (25) 45% 25 or older (18) 32% 13 to 18 years old (9) 16% 1 - 12 years old (4) 7% 56 total votes Your vote: How old are you? (Vote): 1 - 12 years old
(Vote): 13 to 18 years old
(Vote): 18 to 25
(Vote): 25 or older
Just out of curiosity
Arguing against someone's point by saying they must be children is not the most logical way to go about this.
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Definitely police involvement. Why treat violence with school-related punishments? Just the fact that it happened in a school doesn't justify that.+ I think that if the parents of the bully get in trouble (usually such violent kids don't have the most "mannered" parents) their punishment will have a much bigger impact on the bully.
Although this may not achieve turning the bully into a saint (don't tell me any of the options given can. Only with the help of experts he could build a healthy personality as far as I know) but at least it could delay the reoccurence of the incident.
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On October 28 2011 07:42 trainRiderJ wrote:
I hate to break it to you but the police force doesn't have the manpower to be involved in every school fight...
I hate to break it to you, but not every school fight is a premeditated one-sided savage beating.
On another note, it saddens me to see that people are still so barbaric and caveman-esque that they would beat another person because of their sexual orientation...Or for any other reason, really. And what is equally as bad is the fact that the classmates did nothing to stop it, or even tell anyone.
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I literally felt sick after watching that. Whoever the parents are of the kid who was beating up the other... What awful parenting. Absolutely disgusting.
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On October 28 2011 09:05 perser84 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:48 blobrus wrote:On October 28 2011 08:41 perser84 wrote:
1 week suspension is enough
even if he is gay he is still a men and not a fragil gril
he should have defend himself
better
and even to strike back when you know that the other one is bigger and stronger
helps
and it has nothing to do if he is gay or not
if you can show that you have teeth like a tiger
the bullies think twice before or they harras you
People like you are what allows this stuff to continue on, with little punishment and no lessons learned. I guarantee the kid probably doesn't care a single bit about a 3 day suspension, even one week wouldn't bother him. People who commit hate crimes aren't going to learn a permanent lesson from just a suspension. i agree with you they dont learn but like i said HE IS A MAN AND NOT SOME FRAGILE GIRL a men should always defend himself even if the bully is one head bigger then him but the student that get beaten up is at fault too if he would strike back even if he know he would loose they would never get harrased again a animal that shows his fangs is harder to approach i would not say those things if i would not experienced myself
Are you serious? You think its not such a bad thing because HE IS A MAN AND NOT SOME FRAGILE GIRL and that he didnt fight back? really?
I am at loss for words... i... i cant... what? That kind of comment really make me sick....
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On October 28 2011 09:07 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 09:05 perser84 wrote:On October 28 2011 08:48 blobrus wrote:On October 28 2011 08:41 perser84 wrote:
1 week suspension is enough
even if he is gay he is still a men and not a fragil gril
he should have defend himself
better
and even to strike back when you know that the other one is bigger and stronger
helps
and it has nothing to do if he is gay or not
if you can show that you have teeth like a tiger
the bullies think twice before or they harras you
People like you are what allows this stuff to continue on, with little punishment and no lessons learned. I guarantee the kid probably doesn't care a single bit about a 3 day suspension, even one week wouldn't bother him. People who commit hate crimes aren't going to learn a permanent lesson from just a suspension. i agree with you they dont learn but like i said HE IS A MAN AND NOT SOME FRAGILE GIRL a men should always defend himself even if the bully is one head bigger then him but the student that get beaten up is at fault too if he would strike back even if he know he would loose they would never get harrased again a animal that shows his fangs is harder to approach i would not say those things if i would not experienced myself He did fight back. He lost. I otherwise agree with the "fight back" attitude but I'm not sure you've watched the whole video.
well in my case it helped
i jumped from 3 tables in the class room and give him a good one in his face
thengot a good one in the stomach and it was over
but i got never builled again
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On October 28 2011 09:10 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 09:09 semantics wrote:On October 28 2011 09:04 zakmaa wrote:
Violence is violence, because it was over his sexual orientation does make it more disturbing, but it should neither heighten nor lower his punishment. Having said that, I do believe that there should be police involvement and charges laid, however that won't happen unless the kid that was beaten tries to get that to happen. See it's statements like this that make me think TL is filled with 12 year olds Poll: How old are you?18 to 25 (25) 45% 25 or older (18) 32% 13 to 18 years old (9) 16% 1 - 12 years old (4) 7% 56 total votes Your vote: How old are you? (Vote): 1 - 12 years old
(Vote): 13 to 18 years old
(Vote): 18 to 25
(Vote): 25 or older
Just out of curiosity Arguing against someone's point by saying they must be children is not the most logical way to go about this.
Actually when concerning morality it's quite observed the difference between how children argue/ teen young adult and how adults argue, doesn't mean that a child cannot have a valid argument i'm just curious why so many people are not making this distinction
It's also fun to note in the US discriminating based on age is nearly always allowed, i can sell tickets for something for less to seniors and children over adults, but i cannot really sell tickets for less to black people over white people.
On October 28 2011 08:16 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:15 Pillage wrote:On October 28 2011 08:05 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:59 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:52 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:49 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:46 WTFZerg wrote:I used to make kids like this (the bully) lives living hell in high school. Be a dick all you want, just don't pick on people smaller than you because you have some kind of massive inferiority complex. Seeing as how we can't just cane the shit out of the kid like they do in Singapore, have him tried as an adult for premeditated aggravated assault. Little bastard. On October 28 2011 07:45 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account. Hate crime is a legal term (at least in sweden), and its used when someone attacks you for either you sexuality or you ethnicity and maybe someting more(edit, see above post)... It doesnt have to be a minority, if 3 black kids beat up a white kid just because he is white they will be charge with hate crime. I actually think the law makes perfect sense. "Hate crimes" are a stupid concept that only further the ideology that people are different from one another. No its not.. Its there to make sure that we dont see one different better then the other different. We are different, its not a problem, the problem is when people like this(the bully) beats up/murders people for being different. Thats why its good to have a law that makes the crimes worse. So if I kill someone who is straight, and you kill someone who is gay, you've committed a worse crime? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You clearly missed the point about it not automatically being a hate crime if its towards a minority. Its just as discrimination, but on a broader(worse) scale. If you kick someone out of your restaurant just b/c he wheres a t-shirt with a sportteam you dont like, and if you kick someone out of your restaurant b/c he is black... which one is worse? The law is there to make sure that we dont tolerate doing bad things to people just for being different. I can kick someone out of my privately owned restaurant for whatever I want, so bad example. Hate crime-laws are stupid. There is no reason to discriminate between sexual orientation or race in criminal law. Murder is murder, assault is assault, and robbery is robbery. And I'm pretty sure the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in basically the same way. I agree with this. It's just the minority being a victim that generates all of the sensationalism. No its not that a minority got attacked, its that he got attacked because he was a minority... I cant believe people cant see why we need Hate Crime laws...
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If I ever so someone attacking a fellow classmate, pretty much regardless of who it was, I'd get in there are kick that douchebag's ass. Nobody deserves to get bullied like that. Teasing is one thing, physical attacks are wrong on so many levels.
Not saying I am against fighting back if the bullied is attacked first.
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On October 28 2011 09:14 GlocKomA wrote:
If I ever so someone attacking a fellow classmate, pretty much regardless of who it was, I'd get in there are kick that douchebag's ass. Nobody deserves to get bullied like that. Teasing is one thing, physical attacks are wrong on so many levels.
Not saying I am against fighting back if the bullied is attacked first.
yeah kinda agree with you there
but most of the time there is not always someone like you who help out the weak
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Does the reason actually matter? Cause he's gay, black, nerdy, fat, slow, whatever, it's irrelevant. Assigning a tag to the situation (OMG HE GOT BEAT UP CAUSE HES GAY) is inappropriate and only seeks to promote assigning stereotypes and bias. I for one as a parent wouldn't give a damn WHY my child was assaulted, I would be much more interested in how this was possible in a "safe" environment. I've never understood why the term "hate crime" even exists, it just promotes discrimination. Kill someone, 40 years in prison. Oh he was a black guy? Oh ok thats 60 years. WTF? This makes zero sense. Quit making a big deal about him being gay and ask the much more appropriate and applicable question, why is violence in schools tolerated at all? Giving someone a harsher punishment due to their victims color or personal choices is stupid, shortsighted and discriminatory in itself. I love the PC crowd, bunch of fools hiding behind their own hypocrisy.
If you want to eliminate discrimination, fighting it with discrimination of your own probably isn't going to help the situation.
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I'm 100% for gay people, less competition for us hetero nerds XD.
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On October 28 2011 09:16 perser84 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 09:14 GlocKomA wrote:
If I ever so someone attacking a fellow classmate, pretty much regardless of who it was, I'd get in there are kick that douchebag's ass. Nobody deserves to get bullied like that. Teasing is one thing, physical attacks are wrong on so many levels.
Not saying I am against fighting back if the bullied is attacked first. yeah kinda agree with you there but most of the time there is not always someone like you who help out the weak
That's why society has police and court systems.
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kids in schools are pussies these days, if i saw that when i was in high school ..... it wouldn't fly to put it lightly.
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It's weird how this article works with your emotions. I found myself forgetting that there are no rational bullying reasons to begin with, and therefore I shouldn't be elevating this particular reason above the rest.
3 day suspension seems short for an actual battery though, it'd be nice to get that fixed.
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This doesnt look like an argument that got out of hand, or some kind of "in the moment" anger exposion. This isn't simple kids brawling; this is someone who is an adult, or close to adulthood, who has planned a viscious and unprovoked attack. The guy thought out what he was going to do, planned it out, and (by the sounds of it) even told others his plan. This is a premeditated assault.
The punishment he received is completely inappropriate for the severity of his actions imo.
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what about
- Police involvement and charges laid
AND
- expelled from school
???
and i would personally beat him up too
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Half a year of detention might help? Maybe half a year with community service? Definately needs the manager of the school to meet with one of the parents with the child there.
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On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account.
First off Justice isn't blind, it's 12 generic, uninformed, unhappy individuals listening to two stories, then they pick which one is more believable. Justice has it's problems, but--sadly--it is far from blind.
But I think you're missing the point of a hate crime. A hate crime isn't when a gay, black, retarded, ect. person gets assaulted; a hate crime refers specifically to the motive of the attacker. It's not that the victim is a minority, it's the fact that the attacker had enough hatred towards that minority to commit the crime. Our society (due to groups like the KKK, the Black Panthers, ect.) has a hatred of hate crimes, and because of it we view hate crimes as being worse than crimes of passion or greed. So no, not all crimes are hate crimes, but whether or not you think that a hate crime is worse than a crime of passion or a crime manifesting from greed is your opinion.
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On October 28 2011 09:10 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 09:09 semantics wrote:On October 28 2011 09:04 zakmaa wrote:
Violence is violence, because it was over his sexual orientation does make it more disturbing, but it should neither heighten nor lower his punishment. Having said that, I do believe that there should be police involvement and charges laid, however that won't happen unless the kid that was beaten tries to get that to happen. See it's statements like this that make me think TL is filled with 12 year olds Poll: How old are you?18 to 25 (25) 45% 25 or older (18) 32% 13 to 18 years old (9) 16% 1 - 12 years old (4) 7% 56 total votes Your vote: How old are you? (Vote): 1 - 12 years old
(Vote): 13 to 18 years old
(Vote): 18 to 25
(Vote): 25 or older
Just out of curiosity Arguing against someone's point by saying they must be children is not the most logical way to go about this.
Yes, yes it is. Children, by default, have less experience with the world, experience with different worldviews, and their opinions are skewed.
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I'm normally okay with those sorts of videos, but that one got to me :s How screwed up is your head, if you decide to beat the living crap out of someone, who has done NOTHING to you. I think of myself as an understanding person, who tries to see it from other peoples point of view. But that kid.. He doesn't have one. He is just wrong in every way.
It's sad to see that no one did anything. We all wish that they had interfered, but there's a long way from thought to action.
ps. Who the fuck voted "No punishment"? The kid should be allowed to beat that guy up :s?
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EPT
