|
Norway28665 Posts
On June 01 2005 16:01 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2005 15:30 InSideOut wrote:On June 01 2005 13:35 StarN wrote:
silly american school system... it should be more like korea where the teachers beat the kids without even thinking twice about it. you acutally want / like that system??? the bus driver went to far he should have waited for the deputy to come and then it would have been over with. Can you seriously tell me Korean kids aren't 100x more respectful than American kids with a straight face?
I can tell you korean parents are 100x less respectful for hitting their children.
parenting has it's flaws everywhere, definitely among american parents as well. but disciplining kids through violence is wrong. period.
and you shouldn't confuse respect with fear.
if I know a guy will beat me up if I call him a fucker I won't call him a fucker. but my reasoning is not that I respect him, in fact I would completely lack respect for him.
|
iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
i hope your not responding to my posts eri, cause im not arguing for "discipline through violence" im arguing the bus drivers actions were understandable.
|
Norway28665 Posts
I'm responding to anyone advocating that physical violence is an appropriate way of disciplining children.
and yeah they're understandable, but very very wrong nonetheless.
|
yeah the drivers actions weren't good, but its understandable, although he would regret it afterwards
its easy for us to download a clip and make comments whats wrong whats right blah blah but that guy would have been under a lot of pressure, being there being him is very different and i think everyone has a boiling point and i guess he reached his
and about using violence to discipline kids, for some people there's no other way, they wouldn't respect the teachers/elders anyway but at least have [edit] them [edit] under SOME control with fear
and if a kid was a good kid then violent methods of discipline wouldn't be an issue
|
Norway28665 Posts
a good kid is not the same as an obedient kid.
|
i think it depends how young you use violence. if you use it early enough they could learn to respect you later and not realize why. using it on an adult obviously would just have the effect Drone says.
besides, parental respect isn't the same as literal respect anyways is it? it's like parental love. it is just assumed. it's taboo not to have. you have it as long as you are willing to pretend to. it's not a feeling and it's not earned. so in that way, violence is consistent with this still. i can't even imagine what life would be like if i actually did feel love and respect for my parents -- or worse, if they had earned it.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 01 2005 18:35 Bill307 wrote:
Hmm shit I hate when I'm wrong.
I think Radu's right. The kids should be disciplined by being forced to do something they dislike (i.e. get up early and walk to school) by higher authorities. Why not violence instead? Because the kids are also going to learn how to "discipline", or more appropriately, how to deal with people who piss them off. The more we use violence to discipline them, the more they will use it against others. The same goes for appealing to a higher authority, except I think we can all say we'd have fewer problems with the kids doing that instead of using violence.
So, as much as we loved seeing those kids getting what for (my only regret at the time was that he didn't kick the kid's ass), the bus driver probably should have waited for the deputy (sedating himself with the thought of the kids having to behave or else walk to school from now on) and had him escort the little brats out of the bus.
What if the parents, school, and police fail, like some undoubtedly do, and don't take enough action against the kids? What if the parents simply drove the kids to school from that point on, never teaching them a lesson? What if the bus driver has had to put up with their crap for a long time? What can he do? Maybe a little bit of violence was the answer, if only to draw attention to the situation and force the parents and the school to deal with it. I really don't know: I'd have to think about this some more.
It's a KID.
The busdriver shouldn't give a FUCK what that kid is saying, when the kid said whatever he said, he should just have looked at him, walked back to his seat and called someone to get him off the bus.
Simple as that. The fact that what some little kid said to him got to him so bad, IMO, shows that he is pretty damn insecure for his age :/
And for all you people saying "Oh this is all because they don't get spanked".
Wrong.
This is because nowadays parents don't have the time to raise kids AT ALL.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 01 2005 18:44 Hot77.iEy wrote:
FA. Its a different culture.. In Sweden or Finland the bus driver would have gotten fired instantly. His actions were mild in american scale but as a Finn all I could think was 'HE GRABBED HIS THROAT! HE FUCKING GRABBED THAT KIDS THROAT' But after reading some of the comments here and thinking about kids carrying knives/fire arms in schools in u.s and the, sometimes, ridiculous seeming safety precautions I think what he did wasnt that harsh. In Finland, School shootings/stabbings happen ... once in 20 years? Iam happy to think that here teachers dont have to fear kids carrying weapons and in the meantime I can see just in the busdrivers actions..
Does that really make sense? I mean if he grabs the kids throat, and the kid's got a knife....
Didn't he just put himself in a situation where his entire body is 1 inch away from a potential knife?
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 01 2005 21:12 taeWook wrote:
imo, when a child at that age addresses you as fucker, that is more than just a slap to the face, its more like kicking you in the groin when your already down. being called a fucker by a 12 yr old is not only shameful, it puts you in a situation where others will immediately follow through and begin calling you "fucker". that shit has to be stopped, and theres no other way than immediate discipline. i agree, grabbing him by the throat is a bit extreme, instead, the bus driver should have handcuffed the kid, or somehow restrain him, put duct tape over his mouth, and put him in the back of the bus, WITH force, to put fear and to make others know that he is in charge. waiting for the deputy would have intensified the situation; the kids were obviously inclined on harassing this driver until he did something about it. personally, if i was the driver, i would just have stepped off the bus, lock all the exits, and peacefully smoke a cigarette, waiting for the deputy. then, let fate take its course..
You do realize that your last line is COMPLETELY different from the others =[?
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 01 2005 21:26 ieatkids5 wrote:
That's a horrible video.
Even though it was wrong for the bus driver to beat up the kid, I would have done the same thing as him in that position. The bus driver's reaction to the kid was totally understandable, and in a perfectly fair world, both the kid and bus driver would be punished, the kid getting the more severe punishment.
But that's just how I think of the situation.
....
There is a reason why we don't put kids in jail, especially not 12 year olds. And that reason is that most of them are too dumb to realize what they are doing -_-
Now, if someone behaves like that towards someone of a similiar age, I wouldn't care if he got beaten up, but I would expect this guy, who's 66, to be able to ignore this asshat and just chuck him off the bus...
He's 3 times his size, AT LEAST. All I could think of watching that video is that I wanted to jump in and hit the busdriver over the head. You do NOT grab a 12 year old (or 15 year old whatever) by the throat because they called you a motherfucker.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 01 2005 22:27 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
just wondering..someone mentioned that when they were hit, they just grew more angrier. physical punishment seemed to work for me, but if physical punishment doesn't work for some kids like that one on the bus, what do we do to make them human? ~_~
Treat them like humans.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 02 2005 01:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
K more insight from the inc-god-ontrol:
1. cod apparently you were the only one to struggle with my post, result in Washington public education, i dont blame you, it will pass.
2. You guys act like their was a serene bus ride, and a child made a boo boo on the rules, so the bus driver grabs his throat and slaps him. Try, TRY TRY to visualize the world i paint for you. The bus driver is alone, out numbered and to old to physically handle a bus of hoodlums. One kid REFUSES to comply with the bus drivers request to OBEY THE LAW and buckle. The other kids begin to chime in and escalate the situation (watch the video). The bus driver repeatedly asks the child to comply, using verbal requests. The bus driver than PHONES THE COPS typically the gravest punishment a kid can receive (in their mind). The kids continue to escalate in movement and disobedience, tension mounts. The bus driver decides words are not working and moves to the back of the bus (this is in hind site a mistake, he shouold have waited for the cops, however moving to confront the kid isnt wrong in itself it was simply unnecessary) to confront the antagonizer. A kid he cannot see jumps out of his seat behind him and shouts "HEY MOTHER FUCKER" i dont know how many nerds here have been in an actual chaotic/fighting situation but when someone behind you shouts "Hey mother fucker" its never to share pringles. The bus driver (66 fucking years old, hes from the vietnam era where people didnt listen unless their was a gun in their face) snaps. He is outnumbered, he is frustrated and he is risking losing complete control of a bus of kids w ho have already displayed they lack any care for rules. He grabs the kid by his throat (one of the most powerful submission moves possible) and slaps the kid. He could have choked him had he wanted to inflict actual pain, he could have closed fist punched the kid and knocked his face in, instead he uses complete submission moves, slap to daze and throat grab to force surrender. Once the kid was subdued and began crying like a bitch, he released and backed off. Was the kid hurt? No more than a brotherly fight. This wasnt a situation in which thought out and meditated responses were engaged, this was a heat of the moment decision that a 66 year old man did, i believe he was fine to do as he did.
The next time your old, your bones creak and you cant get a boner. Remember this, if you are outnumbered by younger and out of control kids, what will u do? If one jumps up behind you and makes a threatening scream, you going to turn around and ask him to please sit down? Or you going to pre emptively pacify a situation that could escalate to god knows what.
That kid would have sat his arse down had he looked at him the wrong way, couldn't you fucking tell that -_-?
And you say he's 66 so he's entitled to that kind of shit, I say he's 66 so he's not entitled to that kind of shit. It would have been faaaaaaaar more effective to just get out (the bus wasn't moving ffs), waited for the people that CAN handle this to arrive.
Not only would this a) make the other kids pissed at the one behaving like an idiot because now they'll get in trouble for being late + will be boooooooored until whoever gets there and might get in trouble with their parents and b) he would keep his job.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 02 2005 03:05 labcoated wrote:
i think it depends how young you use violence. if you use it early enough they could learn to respect you later and not realize why. using it on an adult obviously would just have the effect Drone says.
besides, parental respect isn't the same as literal respect anyways is it? it's like parental love. it is just assumed. it's taboo not to have. you have it as long as you are willing to pretend to. it's not a feeling and it's not earned. so in that way, violence is consistent with this still. i can't even imagine what life would be like if i actually did feel love and respect for my parents -- or worse, if they had earned it.
Is this one of your famous sarcastic posts  ?
I hope it is.
|
eh i know i said i wouldnt post here but i need to say this. physical abuser doesnt teach shit.
when i was younger and misbehaved my mom would hit me, pull hair, ect. same with step dad, one time i broke out in a fight with him i got my arm and leg cut up. physical violence isnt the answer. trust me i still live at home cause im still a "kid" (17) but i want to get out of here so fucking bad. its funny tho, how my parents are fucking cowards. when i was younger theyd hit me for being bad, cause they know i couldnt/wouldnt do anything back. now when im older i do something bad (like the time i pulled a knife on my step dad for threatening me) they always are like "GO AWAY, DROP IT OR ELSE WERE CALLING THE COPS ON YOU!!". so yah, physical violence really wants to work, i mean it was used on me and im "so well behaved". all it made me wanted to do is kill them both.
on the other hand, my grandmother used a respectful way of teaching, she used to sit me down and explain to me what i did was wrong and why i shouldnt do it, she never put a hand on me, and always showed she cared alot for me and until the day she died i had the utmost respect and care for her, heck i woulda pretty much did anything for her. my mom/step dad on the other hand (like i said) id like to see shot.
|
Physical violence without a proper procedure would never work in child upbringing. For example, If you're to cane your child you should properly explain what he/she did wrong and why they deserve it. Moreover bare hands are not recommeneded, My parents used to hit me with a ruler on the palm when I was really young, and when I got a bit older, it was my calf with a stick.
Of course punching your child in the face out of the frustration is not a sensible thing to do, but desciplined punishement will do him good.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 02 2005 06:11 WildCard wrote:
eh i know i said i wouldnt post here but i need to say this. physical abuser doesnt teach shit.
when i was younger and misbehaved my mom would hit me, pull hair, ect. same with step dad, one time i broke out in a fight with him i got my arm and leg cut up. physical violence isnt the answer. trust me i still live at home cause im still a "kid" (17) but i want to get out of here so fucking bad. its funny tho, how my parents are fucking cowards. when i was younger theyd hit me for being bad, cause they know i couldnt/wouldnt do anything back. now when im older i do something bad (like the time i pulled a knife on my step dad for threatening me) they always are like "GO AWAY, DROP IT OR ELSE WERE CALLING THE COPS ON YOU!!". so yah, physical violence really wants to work, i mean it was used on me and im "so well behaved". all it made me wanted to do is kill them both.
They are cowards for not fighting you when you pull out a fucking knife? They sound like horrible people but most people in the world would react that way to a knife +_+
on the other hand, my grandmother used a respectful way of teaching, she used to sit me down and explain to me what i did was wrong and why i shouldnt do it, she never put a hand on me, and always showed she cared alot for me and until the day she died i had the utmost respect and care for her, heck i woulda pretty much did anything for her. my mom/step dad on the other hand (like i said) id like to see shot.
Sounds rough -_-;;
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 02 2005 06:53 1tym wrote:
Physical violence without a proper procedure would never work in child upbringing. For example, If you're to cane your child you should properly explain what he/she did wrong and why they deserve it. Moreover bare hands are not recommeneded, My parents used to hit me with a ruler on the palm when I was really young, and when I got a bit older, it was my calf with a stick.
Of course punching your child in the face out of the frustration is not a sensible thing to do, but desciplined punishement will do him good.
...
Hitting someone in a 'discipined' way, to me, sounds so incredibly degrading and humiliating.
How would you like it if someone did this to you as an adult?
-_-
|
Notice I said 'child upbringing'? Someone doing this to me as an adult is totally inappropriate. Whatever you do, you gotta do it out of love not anger..
|
those kids have some serious issues and imo it's obvious their parents have failed (doesn't mean it's their fault - some things are unavoidable). I don't mind it so much what that bus driver did, it was hardly damaging anyway and I think they need to be taught some manners anyway.
|
Norway28665 Posts
you should treat children with the same kind of respect you'd treat an adult
that's how you teach them to be respectful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
