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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On January 04 2013 19:29 Kyrillion wrote:
Since no one will bother reading the sources (I'd argue quoting psychological journals as a source does not hold value anyway), could you define "social skills" ? I know it's a fairly common expression, but I would be surprised to meet someone who could give me a simple definition of it, while also coherent with his ideas.
Social skills basically are the art of manipulation.
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^True but that's somewhat of a cynical way to put it.
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Russian Federation748 Posts
Well then they're a rarity.
And since we're at it, and people here seem fond of "studies", does anyone have some that support the idea that a difference of 30 IQ points makes communication very difficult between two persons ? I've heard it had been more or less proven.
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On January 05 2013 07:38 Kyrillion wrote:
Well then they're a rarity.
And since we're at it, and people here seem fond of "studies", does anyone have some that support the idea that a difference of 30 IQ points makes communication very difficult between two persons ? I've heard it had been more or less proven.
I have no idea if IQ plays a role, I suspect it can, but I know that I personally find it tedious to communicate with idiots because I have to dumb down my vocabulary and avoid any complicated topic, or anything important. I think it's not so much because they're not intelligent, but I suspect intelligence somewhat correlates with a person's willingness to be informed about, well, things.
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it's a cultural thing, not an IQ thing
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On January 05 2013 07:36 Saumure wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 19:29 Kyrillion wrote:
Since no one will bother reading the sources (I'd argue quoting psychological journals as a source does not hold value anyway), could you define "social skills" ? I know it's a fairly common expression, but I would be surprised to meet someone who could give me a simple definition of it, while also coherent with his ideas.
Social skills basically are the art of manipulation.
I think that more intelligent people tend to be more cynical and that often times socially it pays major dividends to not be cynical. Social interaction involves lots of hypocrisy and a cynic tends to reveal that too often for people's tastes.
Relevent:
http://hanson.gmu.edu/metacynic.html
http://neq1.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/social-skills-are-manipulation-skills/
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On January 05 2013 07:36 Saumure wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 19:29 Kyrillion wrote:
Since no one will bother reading the sources (I'd argue quoting psychological journals as a source does not hold value anyway), could you define "social skills" ? I know it's a fairly common expression, but I would be surprised to meet someone who could give me a simple definition of it, while also coherent with his ideas.
Social skills basically are the art of manipulation.
![[image loading]](http://files-cdn.formspring.me/photos/20120901/n50418d7f5973a.jpg)
this iq conversation is pretty funny too
User was warned for this post
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On January 05 2013 08:03 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:36 Saumure wrote:On January 04 2013 19:29 Kyrillion wrote:
Since no one will bother reading the sources (I'd argue quoting psychological journals as a source does not hold value anyway), could you define "social skills" ? I know it's a fairly common expression, but I would be surprised to meet someone who could give me a simple definition of it, while also coherent with his ideas.
Social skills basically are the art of manipulation. this iq conversation is pretty funny too
"Social" skills:
- Leading: putting yourself in a better position than others as they do not notice. Do not forget to take their credit.
- Managing: superficial work you do to get paid.
- Relating culturally: act like you give a damn about the others origin and stuff
- Relating with others : be nice to them so they do the work your boss wants them to do
- Communicating: act interested when others talk about themselves. Increase hypocrite attitude. Also, you can convince people that the crap you are selling is in fact good for example.
WTF is this discussion doing in the Dating topic ? :D :D
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Jesus Christ this shit is painful to read. The sheer amount of beta stories and guys like drowisimba who have just given up(intelligence is a curse?, lol ok dude) is actually really sad.
I never realized so many men were afraid of approaching women.
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You shouldn't be surprised that so many men are afraid of approaching women. There is a reason why the pickup community exists right? If more men had self-confidence and/or displayed alpha traits naturally, there would be no need for pickup. Why do you think there's such a huge emphasis on overcoming approach anxiety in the first place?
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On January 05 2013 08:38 SweetNJoshSauce wrote:
Jesus Christ this shit is painful to read. The sheer amount of beta stories and guys like drowisimba who have just given up(intelligence is a curse?, lol ok dude) is actually really sad.
I never realized so many men were afraid of approaching women.
Nerds having a harder time dating than your average joe.
Shocking.
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The thing is that doesn't have to be true. Being a nerd inherently doesn't make you less attractive. It's already established you can probably talk about anything when you first talk to a girl. As for long-term chemistry, it's about finding interests.
It's the limiting belief that being a nerd or intelligent is unattractive to girls that makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't realize that it's not the fact that they are nerdy or "too smart" but the fact that they believe that and act accordingly based on such a thought that makes them extremely unattractive. Honestly, if guys focused less on being attractive, and worked more on eliminating unattractive traits/behaviors in their lives, it would bring them a lot more success.
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On January 05 2013 08:46 generalyao wrote:
The thing is that doesn't have to be true. Being a nerd inherently doesn't make you less attractive. It's already established you can probably talk about anything when you first talk to a girl. As for long-term chemistry, it's about finding interests.
It's the limiting belief that being a nerd or intelligent is unattractive to girls that makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't realize that it's not the fact that they are nerdy or "too smart" but the fact that they believe that and act accordingly based on such a thought that makes them extremely unattractive. Honestly, if guys focused less on being attractive, and worked more on eliminating unattractive traits/behaviors in their lives, it would bring them a lot more success.
Exactly. People give up before they even start trying.
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On January 05 2013 07:38 Kyrillion wrote:
Well then they're a rarity.
And since we're at it, and people here seem fond of "studies", does anyone have some that support the idea that a difference of 30 IQ points makes communication very difficult between two persons ? I've heard it had been more or less proven.
I can only speak for myself. My IQ have been tested my Mensa, and I had around 130-140, and I haven't had any problems when it comes to communication with girls that have around 90-110. For me its more like the other way around, i have problems understanding those who have a higher education, and use those big words in their normal speech.
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On January 05 2013 08:46 generalyao wrote:
The thing is that doesn't have to be true. Being a nerd inherently doesn't make you less attractive. It's already established you can probably talk about anything when you first talk to a girl. As for long-term chemistry, it's about finding interests.
It's the limiting belief that being a nerd or intelligent is unattractive to girls that makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't realize that it's not the fact that they are nerdy or "too smart" but the fact that they believe that and act accordingly based on such a thought that makes them extremely unattractive. Honestly, if guys focused less on being attractive, and worked more on eliminating unattractive traits/behaviors in their lives, it would bring them a lot more success.
When working with people who try improving their dating life, you begin to notice that a lot of the time all the stuff like "I am too nerdy" / "I'm not good looking enough" / "I can't deliver that properly" / "I overthink too much" are just plain excuses for much bigger stuff.
Why? Because it's hard as fuck to admit that you're just scared to death that you get rejected. "Approach anxiety" in general is an awkward term because from my experience the actual approach isn't what causes anxiety. Most people are afraid of a highly negative reaction to their approach and being humiliated. If someone tends to find excuse after excuse but isn't happy with that state probably the best thing to do is to slowly but surely learn that women, or people in general, aren't that scary after all, ESPECIALLY if you don't treat any new person you meet similar to someone who has been in your life for years.
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On January 05 2013 07:36 Saumure wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 19:29 Kyrillion wrote:
Since no one will bother reading the sources (I'd argue quoting psychological journals as a source does not hold value anyway), could you define "social skills" ? I know it's a fairly common expression, but I would be surprised to meet someone who could give me a simple definition of it, while also coherent with his ideas.
Social skills basically are the art of manipulation.
I disagree. It is impossible to interact with any other human being without some kind of manipulation occuring. I don't see manipulation as the core of social skills, more as a necessary result. Simply put, the better your social skills, the more do you manipulate in tune with your actual intent.
To me, I'd define it as anything related to the communication between people. That's extremely broad on purpose, similar to e.g."survival skills" doesn't tell you whether we're talking about surviving in a city, european woods, a rain forest or iceland. Someone who is highly "socially skilled" is able to quickly adjust the way he communicates to his surroundings and easily deciphers the more complex situations where you have to communicate something that seems off to make the receiver understand your original intent.
Personally though I dislike the word "manipulation" in this context because the way we usually use it it implies intent. Pretty much none of the people posting on TL are actively trying to manipulate your thoughtprocesses Dr. Evil style but their posts, by the nature of communicating something, still manipulate others. It's just a byproduct of communication in general, but rarely used in that way.
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Yeah, I agree. Approach anxiety or "bitch butterflies" stems from the fear of rejection. This fear of rejection probably comes from a bad experience or a couple instances where they were too unnecessarily invested in the first place, and then they put too much pressure on themselves. I'll just drop some of my own opinions and advice and maybe some people will find it useful and applicable to their lives.
The big problem is many guys have the wrong mindset, and sometimes they have to be shown that. Why is the mentality of most guys, "what can I do to get this girl to like me?" They don't even know the girl yet, so the girl should have to qualify to him also and prove that she's worth his time. Plus, they don't realize that rejection isn't that big a deal until they experience it themselves and see that their world hasn't ended. It's pompous to expect that you will succeed every time. However, it's also bitching out if the man doesn't make the move. It's the man's job to make the move, and up to the girl to accept or reject it. I used to hate that fact, but that was just another limiting assumption I used to hold. It is what it is. As a man, you deal with what you are given, and you act accordingly true to your intentions.
Honestly, even though it isn't a good way to look at it, it kind of is like one big game with its own set of rules. If you are stuck in a low league like bronze or silver (for those who play SC2) or stuck in a low elo (for those who play league), a big part of the reason why is your fault too. Yeah, you can blame those cheesing n00bs or crappy retard teammates, but that won't change your situation. You still suck and until you acknowledge it and try to do something about it, you'll end up nowhere. It's like poker, no one wants to hear your bad beat stories, we all have our own experiences. There's no pity, just man up.
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On January 05 2013 09:43 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:36 Saumure wrote:On January 04 2013 19:29 Kyrillion wrote:
Since no one will bother reading the sources (I'd argue quoting psychological journals as a source does not hold value anyway), could you define "social skills" ? I know it's a fairly common expression, but I would be surprised to meet someone who could give me a simple definition of it, while also coherent with his ideas.
Social skills basically are the art of manipulation. I disagree. It is impossible to interact with any other human being without some kind of manipulation occuring. I don't see manipulation as the core of social skills, more as a necessary result. Simply put, the better your social skills, the more do you manipulate in tune with your actual intent. To me, I'd define it as anything related to the communication between people. That's extremely broad on purpose, similar to e.g."survival skills" doesn't tell you whether we're talking about surviving in a city, european woods, a rain forest or iceland. Someone who is highly "socially skilled" is able to quickly adjust the way he communicates to his surroundings and easily deciphers the more complex situations where you have to communicate something that seems off to make the receiver understand your original intent. Personally though I dislike the word "manipulation" in this context because the way we usually use it it implies intent. Pretty much none of the people posting on TL are actively trying to manipulate your thoughtprocesses Dr. Evil style but their posts, by the nature of communicating something, still manipulate others. It's just a byproduct of communication in general, but rarely used in that way.
I don't disagree with either of you, that's why I said his definition was a bit cynical. I dislike the term manipulation because it has a negative/evil connotation attached to it. People who are socially adept are not bad or evil, they just know how to communicate effectively. I'll just draw an extremely extreme example, and even if you're not religious or athiest, bear with me. For example, Jesus Christ has tons of social skills and was pretty alpha. Don't hate the player, hate the game if you're angry.
I just want to clarify this so people don't misconstrue "social skills being the art of manipulation." It is not necessarily negative. Sure there are evil people out there who are socially adept, but that's on the person. I agree with Evo saying how being socially adept allows you to manipulate in tune with your actual intent. Too many guys try to find sneaky and clever ways to go "indirect" and try to trick the girl into liking them. That's just creepy. Doing this shows a lack of social awareness and you are acting with deceptive intentions. To those who think this way, try approaching a girl and saying something along the lines of "Hi, I saw you and thought you were really cute and had to come say hi. My name's ____" Guaranteed you'll have much more success than with some weird clever line and routine that you came up that'll make their panties drop by saying it. If you're calm and honest, and genuinely (or at least give the impression of) want to get to know her, she'll be flattered. If you're trying to get into her pants through your "subtle genius", girls can see through that shit and will be turned off.
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On October 09 2011 16:05 PulseKane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 15:56 Probe1 wrote:
Single on purpose. Last relationship was 7 months of good to eh to holy shit i'm out of here. Would rather not be in a committed relationship at this point.
Except to Esports. bro, i'm with you there. threesome with esports?
Hey, I'm here for the gangbang.
Name the film and become respected forever by me.
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So I see most posts are about blablablaba but not actually talking about your recent dating experiences. Or did I get the title of this thread wrongly ? I was just refreshing this to read about some interesting stories.
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EPT
