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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On March 26 2014 17:10 aTnClouD wrote:
If any of you mods would be so kind to tell me who wrote the message on top of the thread I would like to discuss with him. I believe it's sad how teamliquid fell so much into conformity and group thinking after the big influx of people SC2 brought and this thread in particular, which helped lots of people understand women and the male-female interaction, could definitely be handled better.
it's times like this that I really wish the TL+ filter post option was available for everyone so that we could all see Cloud's contributions to the understanding of women and the male-female interaction
Evo is the only person who reads pua stuff and doesn't sound like a robot designed to neg and flirt with committing sex crimes.
I, for one, applaud the Cloud Rule.
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Russian Federation52 Posts
I just got dumped after 8 months, 6 of them being long distance (we were supposed to live together starting this summer)
I was about to dump her tho, so I don't really feel sad, more "pissed" that I didn't get to dump first and now I look like a pityful dumpee 
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Have to say that I'm really unlucky or my related-to-girlz skill is like a low bronze player (no offense intended)..
I like Dota 2 THAT much, I even write a blog about it... met this girl by accident and she likes Dota 2 maybe more than me... comes out that's she is friendly and pretty but most of the time I chat to her the answer almost never goes beyond like... 4 words, sometimes just one emoticon...
I guess that even if I have "GOLD" y need more "EXP" ... need to leave the jungle and go to the lane I guess...
derp :p
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On March 26 2014 08:51 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 03:20 fishjie wrote:On March 24 2014 19:58 Grumbels wrote:
Just because there are red flags doesn't mean that you should be abandoning ship. I think that especially when you're younger it's not inexcusable to have insecurities and odd behavior relating to inexperience with dating. Maybe if you're 25 you wouldn't want to date an insecure 18 year old, but if you're 18 yourself then you're probably not in a position to feel like you're above such behavior. There are red flags you should take very seriously, especially if they're related to abuse and consent, but some of the reasons for shooting women down in this thread are kind of ridiculous. "don't get involved with women that play games", this from people that obsess about pua "game". life is short so time is your most valuable asset. the mentality going into any relationship should be to minimize risk of getting your heart stomped upon, because why waste valuable time getting hurt? girls playing games is a huge red flag that she doesn't care about your feelings at all. so better to end things early on instead of getting attached, only to get even more hurt further on down the line For me I would always pick the neurotic, insecure, "gameplaying" girl that I find very attractive over someone that seems more stable but that I feel less attraction for. (not to say I don't have red flags, but they're mostly just personality aspects that make me feel like they're not the right person for me)
Why do you assume that attractive girl and immature girl are mutually exclusive? why not just date someone who doesn't play games and is also attractive to you?
You can pick the neurotic, insecure, gameplaying girl if you just want a one night stand fine. Wrap it up and don't get attached/hurt later on down the road. But most people in this thread appear to be looking for relationships, not just to fool around.
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On March 27 2014 03:21 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 08:51 Grumbels wrote:On March 26 2014 03:20 fishjie wrote:On March 24 2014 19:58 Grumbels wrote:
Just because there are red flags doesn't mean that you should be abandoning ship. I think that especially when you're younger it's not inexcusable to have insecurities and odd behavior relating to inexperience with dating. Maybe if you're 25 you wouldn't want to date an insecure 18 year old, but if you're 18 yourself then you're probably not in a position to feel like you're above such behavior. There are red flags you should take very seriously, especially if they're related to abuse and consent, but some of the reasons for shooting women down in this thread are kind of ridiculous. "don't get involved with women that play games", this from people that obsess about pua "game". life is short so time is your most valuable asset. the mentality going into any relationship should be to minimize risk of getting your heart stomped upon, because why waste valuable time getting hurt? girls playing games is a huge red flag that she doesn't care about your feelings at all. so better to end things early on instead of getting attached, only to get even more hurt further on down the line For me I would always pick the neurotic, insecure, "gameplaying" girl that I find very attractive over someone that seems more stable but that I feel less attraction for. (not to say I don't have red flags, but they're mostly just personality aspects that make me feel like they're not the right person for me) Why do you assume that attractive girl and immature girl are mutually exclusive? why not just date someone who doesn't play games and is also attractive to you?
I didn't say it was mutually exclusive, but you don't choose whom you're attracted to.
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Despite two longterm relationships I have very little experience at chasing women.
Anyway I've been hanging out with a girl recently we met through a shared interest so I knew her a little bit already but never spoken to her before. Turns out we get on great and we've hung out a couple of times, conversation has always been funny banter with flirty overtones and lots of physical contact, (thighs touching, hand on back, hand on thigh sort of thing).
Anyway I had her over at my place for the first time last night. Things were going well, plenty of touching and laughing and I am semi snuggling her on the bed. She has really impressive breasts and she kept deliberately rearranging herself on the bed so I would have a good view down her top. So signs are looking good. Anyway I see her lick her lips so decide to go in for the kiss. It's not something I would have done naturally as I'm pretty shy with that sort of thing but my problem has been not making a move in the past and everything I've read on here suggests that when things get to this point I need to make a move before I get friend-zoned :/
Anyway I lean in for the kiss and I see her eyes widen in surprise and she shies away. So I mega awkwardly pulled back and kind of kissed her forehead a little bit on the way out. After maybe 10 seconds of me feeling really bad/awkward I manage to start the conversation again but a minute later she says she has to go home now so obviously I've fucked up.
Am I just terrible at reading body language or is she just super flirty/touchy and wasn't expecting anything to happen? I know she is normally shy/introverted around people she doesn't know well.
The last bit is I'm driving her home and we are talking a bit but with no real spark. It's a bit too obvious to ignore the whole thing happened so I decide to feel out the waters and say lightly "Sorry if I was being too cosy" and she says "nah it's fine" but it felt like just a polite courtesy and she couldn't wait to get out of the car.
I know I shouldn't let it bother me but I slept like shit last night and feeling a bit nauseous. What's my next step? I was thinking just leave it up to her as the ball is now in her court but I will see her again at our shared interest tonight.
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On March 26 2014 15:21 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 10:01 Chocolate wrote:On March 26 2014 08:51 Grumbels wrote:On March 26 2014 03:20 fishjie wrote:On March 24 2014 19:58 Grumbels wrote:
Just because there are red flags doesn't mean that you should be abandoning ship. I think that especially when you're younger it's not inexcusable to have insecurities and odd behavior relating to inexperience with dating. Maybe if you're 25 you wouldn't want to date an insecure 18 year old, but if you're 18 yourself then you're probably not in a position to feel like you're above such behavior. There are red flags you should take very seriously, especially if they're related to abuse and consent, but some of the reasons for shooting women down in this thread are kind of ridiculous. "don't get involved with women that play games", this from people that obsess about pua "game". life is short so time is your most valuable asset. the mentality going into any relationship should be to minimize risk of getting your heart stomped upon, because why waste valuable time getting hurt? girls playing games is a huge red flag that she doesn't care about your feelings at all. so better to end things early on instead of getting attached, only to get even more hurt further on down the line For me I would always pick the neurotic, insecure, "gameplaying" girl that I find very attractive over someone that seems more stable but that I feel less attraction for. (not to say I don't have red flags, but they're mostly just personality aspects that make me feel like they're not the right person for me) Well it turns out she was just busy (according to her) so I don't even know if she was playing games. Anyway I think you are right, there really is no reason for me, especially at my age, to try to avoid game playing girls, especially when they are just trying to figure out relationships too. And yeah, I do find her very attractive There is no "too busy" for a person who is really attracted to someone else. If she doesn't make time for you then you aren't very important to her.
Yeah I know. The thing is, it kind of makes sense because she used to text me a lot during her spring break, and now her school is starting again. She says she has finals soon, which I think is bull because they aren't until early May (I am weird enough that I looked the dates up online for her school), and I can't ever remember studying for anything more than a week before it, personally... You are probably right, but I still think there's no harm in still talking to her. It's not as if I am completely shutting myself off from other girls in real life
On March 26 2014 15:59 IgnE wrote:
He hasn't even kissed the girl yet. There's a difference between being clingy and seeing if she's interested. If she won't even go out with him then she's not interested.
God dammit, I can't go out with her right now because she lives too far away for the time being. It's not as if she isn't attracted to me, sheesh. She has gone over in detail what she would like to do irl
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On March 27 2014 05:18 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 15:21 IgnE wrote:On March 26 2014 10:01 Chocolate wrote:On March 26 2014 08:51 Grumbels wrote:On March 26 2014 03:20 fishjie wrote:On March 24 2014 19:58 Grumbels wrote:
Just because there are red flags doesn't mean that you should be abandoning ship. I think that especially when you're younger it's not inexcusable to have insecurities and odd behavior relating to inexperience with dating. Maybe if you're 25 you wouldn't want to date an insecure 18 year old, but if you're 18 yourself then you're probably not in a position to feel like you're above such behavior. There are red flags you should take very seriously, especially if they're related to abuse and consent, but some of the reasons for shooting women down in this thread are kind of ridiculous. "don't get involved with women that play games", this from people that obsess about pua "game". life is short so time is your most valuable asset. the mentality going into any relationship should be to minimize risk of getting your heart stomped upon, because why waste valuable time getting hurt? girls playing games is a huge red flag that she doesn't care about your feelings at all. so better to end things early on instead of getting attached, only to get even more hurt further on down the line For me I would always pick the neurotic, insecure, "gameplaying" girl that I find very attractive over someone that seems more stable but that I feel less attraction for. (not to say I don't have red flags, but they're mostly just personality aspects that make me feel like they're not the right person for me) Well it turns out she was just busy (according to her) so I don't even know if she was playing games. Anyway I think you are right, there really is no reason for me, especially at my age, to try to avoid game playing girls, especially when they are just trying to figure out relationships too. And yeah, I do find her very attractive There is no "too busy" for a person who is really attracted to someone else. If she doesn't make time for you then you aren't very important to her. Yeah I know. The thing is, it kind of makes sense because she used to text me a lot during her spring break, and now her school is starting again. She says she has finals soon, which I think is bull because they aren't until early May (I am weird enough that I looked the dates up online for her school), and I can't ever remember studying for anything more than a week before it, personally... You are probably right, but I still think there's no harm in still talking to her. It's not as if I am completely shutting myself off from other girls in real life Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 15:59 IgnE wrote:
He hasn't even kissed the girl yet. There's a difference between being clingy and seeing if she's interested. If she won't even go out with him then she's not interested. God dammit, I can't go out with her right now because she lives too far away for the time being. It's not as if she isn't attracted to me, sheesh. She has gone over in detail what she would like to do irl
I really don't think that's something you should do. I used to be exactly like that, playing internet detective scrutinizing every statement (I think I learned valuable skills during that time  ), and what for? People give nonsense justifications for why they didn't do X all the time, often they don't even know exactly why they didn't themselves. It's not really fair for them to be under so much pressure, they're not under oath talking to you in court. I think you just need to build up trust and comfort and then eventually she'll be more honest with you. (or not, but confronting them doesn't help either way) From what you describe it does seem like there might be something wrong, but if she tells you she's attracted to you and you're attracted to her then you could possibly just continue as usual and then time will tell, I guess?
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2014 05:13 ThunderGod wrote:
Despite two longterm relationships I have very little experience at chasing women.
Anyway I've been hanging out with a girl recently we met through a shared interest so I knew her a little bit already but never spoken to her before. Turns out we get on great and we've hung out a couple of times, conversation has always been funny banter with flirty overtones and lots of physical contact, (thighs touching, hand on back, hand on thigh sort of thing).
Anyway I had her over at my place for the first time last night. Things were going well, plenty of touching and laughing and I am semi snuggling her on the bed. She has really impressive breasts and she kept deliberately rearranging herself on the bed so I would have a good view down her top. So signs are looking good. Anyway I see her lick her lips so decide to go in for the kiss. It's not something I would have done naturally as I'm pretty shy with that sort of thing but my problem has been not making a move in the past and everything I've read on here suggests that when things get to this point I need to make a move before I get friend-zoned :/
Anyway I lean in for the kiss and I see her eyes widen in surprise and she shies away. So I mega awkwardly pulled back and kind of kissed her forehead a little bit on the way out. After maybe 10 seconds of me feeling really bad/awkward I manage to start the conversation again but a minute later she says she has to go home now so obviously I've fucked up.
Am I just terrible at reading body language or is she just super flirty/touchy and wasn't expecting anything to happen? I know she is normally shy/introverted around people she doesn't know well.
The last bit is I'm driving her home and we are talking a bit but with no real spark. It's a bit too obvious to ignore the whole thing happened so I decide to feel out the waters and say lightly "Sorry if I was being too cosy" and she says "nah it's fine" but it felt like just a polite courtesy and she couldn't wait to get out of the car.
I know I shouldn't let it bother me but I slept like shit last night and feeling a bit nauseous. What's my next step? I was thinking just leave it up to her as the ball is now in her court but I will see her again at our shared interest tonight.
Well I was hoping to get some advice but I don't think it matters. She was completely frozen towards me, wouldn't catch my eye or speak to me. I must have misjudged the whole situation pretty badly. Guess I have ruined the start of a good friendship also. Doesn't really feel worth it for not being Mr Nice Guy for once. Considering I see her every week is there any way I can salvage this so that's it's not super awkward between us now?
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On March 27 2014 19:05 ThunderGod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2014 05:13 ThunderGod wrote:
Despite two longterm relationships I have very little experience at chasing women.
Anyway I've been hanging out with a girl recently we met through a shared interest so I knew her a little bit already but never spoken to her before. Turns out we get on great and we've hung out a couple of times, conversation has always been funny banter with flirty overtones and lots of physical contact, (thighs touching, hand on back, hand on thigh sort of thing).
Anyway I had her over at my place for the first time last night. Things were going well, plenty of touching and laughing and I am semi snuggling her on the bed. She has really impressive breasts and she kept deliberately rearranging herself on the bed so I would have a good view down her top. So signs are looking good. Anyway I see her lick her lips so decide to go in for the kiss. It's not something I would have done naturally as I'm pretty shy with that sort of thing but my problem has been not making a move in the past and everything I've read on here suggests that when things get to this point I need to make a move before I get friend-zoned :/
Anyway I lean in for the kiss and I see her eyes widen in surprise and she shies away. So I mega awkwardly pulled back and kind of kissed her forehead a little bit on the way out. After maybe 10 seconds of me feeling really bad/awkward I manage to start the conversation again but a minute later she says she has to go home now so obviously I've fucked up.
Am I just terrible at reading body language or is she just super flirty/touchy and wasn't expecting anything to happen? I know she is normally shy/introverted around people she doesn't know well.
The last bit is I'm driving her home and we are talking a bit but with no real spark. It's a bit too obvious to ignore the whole thing happened so I decide to feel out the waters and say lightly "Sorry if I was being too cosy" and she says "nah it's fine" but it felt like just a polite courtesy and she couldn't wait to get out of the car.
I know I shouldn't let it bother me but I slept like shit last night and feeling a bit nauseous. What's my next step? I was thinking just leave it up to her as the ball is now in her court but I will see her again at our shared interest tonight. Well I was hoping to get some advice but I don't think it matters. She was completely frozen towards me, wouldn't catch my eye or speak to me. I must have misjudged the whole situation pretty badly. Guess I have ruined the start of a good friendship also. Doesn't really feel worth it for not being Mr Nice Guy for once. Considering I see her every week is there any way I can salvage this so that's it's not super awkward between us now?
It could have gone wrong for a number of reasons, it's hard to gauge without seeing. Chances are you made your move in an insecure way (which creeps women out), and you panicked when she did not reciprocate the kiss. If she turns her head when you kiss her (which happens, even with girls who want to be kissed) just kiss her on the neck, then try to kiss her again. If she doesn't reciprocate again, kiss her again on the neck, give her some time and try again after a few minutes when tension is building up again. Being insecure and shy is a big turn off, and at this point the least painful course of action for you is to take the experience and forget about her.
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About two weeks ago the company I´m working for - aside from my study in economics - hired a new employee and she´s pretty... fine. I´ve had the pleasure to work with her from monday until today, now I was wondering if it would be a good idea to get contact on a "more personal basis" ?
When we worked together she seemed to have lots of fun and it occured to me that she went for physical closeness (touched me multiple times without a reason, sat right next to me and touched me) although I do not want to overvalue that because I do not know if she´s just a very open-minded person and always behaves like that.
Monday will be the next and for the time beeing last time we will work together ... Could you give me any advice?
There are just a few additional things that go through my head:
- She´s 28 and "already" has a son. (I´m 25)
- How do you attract such a girl without seeming like just another guy that tries to hit on her?
- I am a person that needs time to "warm up" with other people. That means it usually takes some time before I accept them/talk to them... I hope that this did not put a spoke in my way. I feel like most of the time I´ve been cool, calm and collected. You know... trying to be the "cool" guy^^
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General rule: don't date co-workers. Imagine stuff going sour and having to see her every day. That sucks. (EDIT: didn't see that monday was the last time you'll work together. So you can ignore this part of the post =] )
Some people are like that, they like to touch people they speak to or just generally be close to people. Safest route is to not take that as flirting. I mean, if she's like sitting next to you, touches your leg and looks deeply into your eyes while biting her lip, that's another matter...
That said, getting contact on a personal level isn't necessarily bad. I go out with my co-workers from time to time, to grab a beer and whatnot.
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On March 27 2014 19:05 ThunderGod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2014 05:13 ThunderGod wrote:
Despite two longterm relationships I have very little experience at chasing women.
Anyway I've been hanging out with a girl recently we met through a shared interest so I knew her a little bit already but never spoken to her before. Turns out we get on great and we've hung out a couple of times, conversation has always been funny banter with flirty overtones and lots of physical contact, (thighs touching, hand on back, hand on thigh sort of thing).
Anyway I had her over at my place for the first time last night. Things were going well, plenty of touching and laughing and I am semi snuggling her on the bed. She has really impressive breasts and she kept deliberately rearranging herself on the bed so I would have a good view down her top. So signs are looking good. Anyway I see her lick her lips so decide to go in for the kiss. It's not something I would have done naturally as I'm pretty shy with that sort of thing but my problem has been not making a move in the past and everything I've read on here suggests that when things get to this point I need to make a move before I get friend-zoned :/
Anyway I lean in for the kiss and I see her eyes widen in surprise and she shies away. So I mega awkwardly pulled back and kind of kissed her forehead a little bit on the way out. After maybe 10 seconds of me feeling really bad/awkward I manage to start the conversation again but a minute later she says she has to go home now so obviously I've fucked up.
Am I just terrible at reading body language or is she just super flirty/touchy and wasn't expecting anything to happen? I know she is normally shy/introverted around people she doesn't know well.
The last bit is I'm driving her home and we are talking a bit but with no real spark. It's a bit too obvious to ignore the whole thing happened so I decide to feel out the waters and say lightly "Sorry if I was being too cosy" and she says "nah it's fine" but it felt like just a polite courtesy and she couldn't wait to get out of the car.
I know I shouldn't let it bother me but I slept like shit last night and feeling a bit nauseous. What's my next step? I was thinking just leave it up to her as the ball is now in her court but I will see her again at our shared interest tonight. Well I was hoping to get some advice but I don't think it matters. She was completely frozen towards me, wouldn't catch my eye or speak to me. I must have misjudged the whole situation pretty badly. Guess I have ruined the start of a good friendship also. Doesn't really feel worth it for not being Mr Nice Guy for once. Considering I see her every week is there any way I can salvage this so that's it's not super awkward between us now?
Just talk with her about the situation and continue accordingly based on the response. No reason to be immature and ignore her just 'cause she's ignoring you. But go into the conversation with the aim to salvage a friend and then you can always steer towards a closer relationship depending on the outcome and future engagements.
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Aaaand I'm back. Some of you might still remember my utterly fascinating saga, but I'll make a summary of it anyway, because this is gonna be about the same girl.
+ Show Spoiler +We had 3 dates (we already knew each other for some years) plus a short meeting; kiss happened, but the last real date was fucked up, cuz despite I went out against my insecurities and inexperience and made reservations in a place (nothing fancy, but I'd never imagined I'd ever dare to do sth like that), she was engulfed with herself and her problems at home. I should've told her to make up her mind, and either continue this as a date, or meet with her girlfriend to discuss her overdramatized stuff, and then we can settle an other date if she's still interested. Howewer, I was a tool and I let myself dragged along. I found some of her gestures during our meetings mean and intimidating, but can’t really explain it to you, I just felt she made me look like an idiot, in a bad way. Later she gave me the silent treatment because she found some of the stuff I've said during our fb chat (!!!!!) offensive. I insisted to work it out, she kept the silent treatment going, I gave her an "ultimatum", but not in a demanding way, but rather in a "I'd like if it could work, buta t least give me a no" way. No replies, so I defriendd her on FB, deleted her phone number, regular stuff some guys do when they are hurt, lol. A month later she calls, but I'm a total dick; we agree on that she'll call me later on that night. I got drunk. She did not call. I got super drunk, got into a 1 vs many verbal fight on the street, got myself knocked out twice. Best day ever.
I recently re-added her on facebook, it was shit knowing that I'm in an "I hate your gut!!" situation with someone I used to have good talks with, so I apologised for my part of douchebagery, and let it be. Howewer, she kept messaging me. I did not read much into it, I know she's social, but it reminded me why I like her, so I had this idea born in my mind, that eventually I'm gonna try to ask her out again, or just simply ask her where did I fuck up, so at least I'll know what not to do next when I'm in a dating process with someone. That's how I imagined it anyway, but my friends told me off, that the latter is quite retarded and won't benefit me much, and if I'm serious about the former, I should go for it asap, not set it for the summer, or whenever I'll feel more comfortable. So I asked her out (made it clear, that it is NOT a friendly meeting), and she said yes, depending how awkward it'll be after everything that happened.
I have no idea what was going on between us the last time, let alone how could she say yes after all those things, especially if we consider how many inappropriate things I did, like asking if we are a couple after the first kiss, or buying a plush after just 3 dates for no particular reason - I just felt it is a nice thing to do. If she said yes (or sth along the lines of "lets give it a try") after all those things, it is a good sign, right? I mean, I pretty much showed all of my bad sides.
The good thing is that I'm in no hurry now, the bad is that it is 3 hours plus to get there AND another 3 hours plus to get back, but it won't be a problem for a long time whether it works out (can sleep there) or not (no reason to go there to begin with). I just don't know how to go about it; we already had a walk, we got semi-drunk, and I ticked the "let's be a gentleman and reserve something" box as well. Should I even mention the past, or just pretend like nothing happened?
Considering the date would start in the afternoon, and that I remember you guys saying that sex is HUGE determining whether a relationship of any kind could work, I should probably insist on meeting at her place (with some funny cover story, even though we both knew what I meant), get drunk (i.e. playing a game where everyone drinks a shot and can ask something from each other) and get it on. It’s straightforward and confident, but can be repelling as well imo. Again, I have no idea what goes on in her mind, whether she expects something gentle, or me finally saying „I’d bang you” – funnily enough, I never actually said it, not even when we were talking about sex in general.
I know the only thing I’m not questioning here is my breathig sequence, but when I did stuff on my own, I just messed things up, and many advices I neglected turned out to be true.
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Stop planning every little move and go hang out with her. If something happens it happens. But if ypu have to think about every little move, its not as fun and go find someone else imho.
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On March 28 2014 06:12 Volband wrote:Aaaand I'm back. Some of you might still remember my utterly fascinating saga, but I'll make a summary of it anyway, because this is gonna be about the same girl. + Show Spoiler +We had 3 dates (we already knew each other for some years) plus a short meeting; kiss happened, but the last real date was fucked up, cuz despite I went out against my insecurities and inexperience and made reservations in a place (nothing fancy, but I'd never imagined I'd ever dare to do sth like that), she was engulfed with herself and her problems at home. I should've told her to make up her mind, and either continue this as a date, or meet with her girlfriend to discuss her overdramatized stuff, and then we can settle an other date if she's still interested. Howewer, I was a tool and I let myself dragged along. I found some of her gestures during our meetings mean and intimidating, but can’t really explain it to you, I just felt she made me look like an idiot, in a bad way. Later she gave me the silent treatment because she found some of the stuff I've said during our fb chat (!!!!!) offensive. I insisted to work it out, she kept the silent treatment going, I gave her an "ultimatum", but not in a demanding way, but rather in a "I'd like if it could work, buta t least give me a no" way. No replies, so I defriendd her on FB, deleted her phone number, regular stuff some guys do when they are hurt, lol. A month later she calls, but I'm a total dick; we agree on that she'll call me later on that night. I got drunk. She did not call. I got super drunk, got into a 1 vs many verbal fight on the street, got myself knocked out twice. Best day ever. I recently re-added her on facebook, it was shit knowing that I'm in an "I hate your gut!!" situation with someone I used to have good talks with, so I apologised for my part of douchebagery, and let it be. Howewer, she kept messaging me. I did not read much into it, I know she's social, but it reminded me why I like her, so I had this idea born in my mind, that eventually I'm gonna try to ask her out again, or just simply ask her where did I fuck up, so at least I'll know what not to do next when I'm in a dating process with someone. That's how I imagined it anyway, but my friends told me off, that the latter is quite retarded and won't benefit me much, and if I'm serious about the former, I should go for it asap, not set it for the summer, or whenever I'll feel more comfortable. So I asked her out (made it clear, that it is NOT a friendly meeting), and she said yes, depending how awkward it'll be after everything that happened. I have no idea what was going on between us the last time, let alone how could she say yes after all those things, especially if we consider how many inappropriate things I did, like asking if we are a couple after the first kiss, or buying a plush after just 3 dates for no particular reason - I just felt it is a nice thing to do. If she said yes (or sth along the lines of "lets give it a try") after all those things, it is a good sign, right? I mean, I pretty much showed all of my bad sides. The good thing is that I'm in no hurry now, the bad is that it is 3 hours plus to get there AND another 3 hours plus to get back, but it won't be a problem for a long time whether it works out (can sleep there) or not (no reason to go there to begin with). I just don't know how to go about it; we already had a walk, we got semi-drunk, and I ticked the "let's be a gentleman and reserve something" box as well. Should I even mention the past, or just pretend like nothing happened? Considering the date would start in the afternoon, and that I remember you guys saying that sex is HUGE determining whether a relationship of any kind could work, I should probably insist on meeting at her place (with some funny cover story, even though we both knew what I meant), get drunk (i.e. playing a game where everyone drinks a shot and can ask something from each other) and get it on. It’s straightforward and confident, but can be repelling as well imo. Again, I have no idea what goes on in her mind, whether she expects something gentle, or me finally saying „I’d bang you” – funnily enough, I never actually said it, not even when we were talking about sex in general. I know the only thing I’m not questioning here is my breathig sequence, but when I did stuff on my own, I just messed things up, and many advices I neglected turned out to be true.
Sounds like there was a lot of drama in the past, so instead of overthinking this (which you are), why not ask yourself, why do you want to go out with her again? It doesn't sound like there'd be a high chance of success given that it didn't work out last time you tried. Also the whole "ply her with alcohol until you can get in her pants" sounds creepy given that this is the first date after a long hiatus. Nothing wrong with getting drunk and having sex, but if a guy brings up booze in that manner the girl can see right through what you're trying to do. And if you go about it the wrong way, its going to come off as mega creepy. Its another matter altogether if the girl brings up booze and says she wants to drink with you back at her place. In that case, your plan has a much higher chance of success
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What are you guys thoughts on "massage" parlors? Fronts for prostitutes perhaps? Found one on backpage.com i was told about, googled the number, turns out its a legit establishment. Do you think they just do massages there or are they actually basically bending the rules to put out?
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Trying to plan every move is not exceptionlly just for her, would've been the same with someone else.
If she wants to have sex with me, we don't need any alcohol, obviously, it's just for making me more comfortable and relaxed. "Be the best version of yourself", I've been told, but for that I need some help bringing down some walls which otherwise make me stiff in such a situation (aka date, not sex). I don't mean super-drunk, even a shot could be just fine. I feel like I can't win here; If I insist on anything that involves alcohol, I'm shallow, but if I do something nice and thoughtful, I'm just the good guy who gives out plushes, and would like to cuddle you, which is nice and all, but not the biggest turn on.
I honestly don't know about my chances; not rejecting me after all of this can mean many things, from me having actually a good shot with her, to her just being unnecessarily nice to me. I wouldn't even be shocked if it would fall through, but if I've learned anything during my past months, it is to never assume you already lost.
I want to go out with her again because I genuenly like her. I doubt we could have a serious relationship (though I tend to daydream about it, but I remain rational), but since I got more confident, I found her all the more attractive, because I really dig her personality. I'd also like her to be my first; recently I haven't felt the urge to lose it with just anyone. Maybe I shouldn't make a big deal out of it, but I'd like to remember it wit at least some fondness.
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On March 28 2014 07:01 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
Stop planning every little move and go hang out with her. If something happens it happens. But if ypu have to think about every little move, its not as fun and go find someone else imho.
Don't plan every single move bur rather have a good general plan to follow.
Do everything at YOUR pace. 95% of the time, a girl would rather be w/ a man that can lead the conversation and activities than a person who just compliments her w/ those needy looks. Also control your enthusiasm, have just enough energy to be in control but not too much so that she thinks that you are desperate.
A good thing about being men is that we can act our way into sexual circumstances (and not exactly based on our looks, although it helps but not nearly as much if the genders are reversed) whereas it is much less possible for a girl as her attraction is mostly based upon her appearance. But that also means that as men, we have much more burdens in life and thus statistically die earlier.
To the footnote above: some PUA techniques work great but those advices are very hard to find. Every man's style, body type, personality, experience, etc. are different so what may work for one person might not necessarily work for another person. But you have to somewhat imitate what worked for others in getting your wanted results. So you gotta to filter out the "phoney" advices from PUA people as most of them hires actresses to plan out their routine just to scam people out there. However if you learn just a bit of body languages, you can distinguish the fake people from the real ones pretty quickly. What I want to say is that yes they are some extremely rip off relationship advices out there from PUAs but there are still some useful ones too.
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On March 28 2014 06:12 Volband wrote:Aaaand I'm back. Some of you might still remember my utterly fascinating saga, but I'll make a summary of it anyway, because this is gonna be about the same girl. + Show Spoiler +We had 3 dates (we already knew each other for some years) plus a short meeting; kiss happened, but the last real date was fucked up, cuz despite I went out against my insecurities and inexperience and made reservations in a place (nothing fancy, but I'd never imagined I'd ever dare to do sth like that), she was engulfed with herself and her problems at home. I should've told her to make up her mind, and either continue this as a date, or meet with her girlfriend to discuss her overdramatized stuff, and then we can settle an other date if she's still interested. Howewer, I was a tool and I let myself dragged along. I found some of her gestures during our meetings mean and intimidating, but can’t really explain it to you, I just felt she made me look like an idiot, in a bad way. Later she gave me the silent treatment because she found some of the stuff I've said during our fb chat (!!!!!) offensive. I insisted to work it out, she kept the silent treatment going, I gave her an "ultimatum", but not in a demanding way, but rather in a "I'd like if it could work, buta t least give me a no" way. No replies, so I defriendd her on FB, deleted her phone number, regular stuff some guys do when they are hurt, lol. A month later she calls, but I'm a total dick; we agree on that she'll call me later on that night. I got drunk. She did not call. I got super drunk, got into a 1 vs many verbal fight on the street, got myself knocked out twice. Best day ever. I recently re-added her on facebook, it was shit knowing that I'm in an "I hate your gut!!" situation with someone I used to have good talks with, so I apologised for my part of douchebagery, and let it be. Howewer, she kept messaging me. I did not read much into it, I know she's social, but it reminded me why I like her, so I had this idea born in my mind, that eventually I'm gonna try to ask her out again, or just simply ask her where did I fuck up, so at least I'll know what not to do next when I'm in a dating process with someone. That's how I imagined it anyway, but my friends told me off, that the latter is quite retarded and won't benefit me much, and if I'm serious about the former, I should go for it asap, not set it for the summer, or whenever I'll feel more comfortable. So I asked her out (made it clear, that it is NOT a friendly meeting), and she said yes, depending how awkward it'll be after everything that happened. I have no idea what was going on between us the last time, let alone how could she say yes after all those things, especially if we consider how many inappropriate things I did, like asking if we are a couple after the first kiss, or buying a plush after just 3 dates for no particular reason - I just felt it is a nice thing to do. If she said yes (or sth along the lines of "lets give it a try") after all those things, it is a good sign, right? I mean, I pretty much showed all of my bad sides. The good thing is that I'm in no hurry now, the bad is that it is 3 hours plus to get there AND another 3 hours plus to get back, but it won't be a problem for a long time whether it works out (can sleep there) or not (no reason to go there to begin with). I just don't know how to go about it; we already had a walk, we got semi-drunk, and I ticked the "let's be a gentleman and reserve something" box as well. Should I even mention the past, or just pretend like nothing happened? Considering the date would start in the afternoon, and that I remember you guys saying that sex is HUGE determining whether a relationship of any kind could work, I should probably insist on meeting at her place (with some funny cover story, even though we both knew what I meant), get drunk (i.e. playing a game where everyone drinks a shot and can ask something from each other) and get it on. It’s straightforward and confident, but can be repelling as well imo. Again, I have no idea what goes on in her mind, whether she expects something gentle, or me finally saying „I’d bang you” – funnily enough, I never actually said it, not even when we were talking about sex in general. I know the only thing I’m not questioning here is my breathig sequence, but when I did stuff on my own, I just messed things up, and many advices I neglected turned out to be true.
I feel like you are asking such a general plz help me question that it is difficult for anyone to give you specific advice. That said, some things I would recommend:
1. Do something that you enjoy. Take her out for something that you would enjoy regardless of her. People like to be around others who are happy, comfortable, and confident. Picking an activity that interests you will help you be those things as well as give you an easy topic for small talk.
2. Day dates are the hallmark of friendship. It's all well and good to meet up for coffee or go running or whatever when you are just getting to know each other, but when you have specifically invited a girl on a date make sure it goes through the evening/night. If you're starting in the afternoon, just know that you've got enough things to do together that you will be having fun into the evening.
3. Don't be overly fawning. Being nice and being a "nice guy" aren't really the same thing. Friends can call each other on their bullshit or make fun of each other. That doesn't mean you should mock her or insult her; the point is just that nonstop compliments does not make you "close" or "good". A practical example of this would be simply choosing the activity for your date. If you call beforehand and ask her what she wants to do, you're being a "nice guy" rather than nice. If you show up and tell her what you wanted to take her out to do and are open to her thoughts, then you're being nice.
4. You suggest playing a drinking game with "everyone." Presumably this means you're planning on taking her to some kind of public social situation. You also say that she is more than 3 hours away and you have no reason other than her to take you there. How do you plan on arranging this drinking group then? Inviting someone into a social situation with a bunch of people they don't know can be difficult for some people.
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EPT
