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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On March 28 2014 09:51 phyren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 06:12 Volband wrote:Aaaand I'm back. Some of you might still remember my utterly fascinating saga, but I'll make a summary of it anyway, because this is gonna be about the same girl. + Show Spoiler +We had 3 dates (we already knew each other for some years) plus a short meeting; kiss happened, but the last real date was fucked up, cuz despite I went out against my insecurities and inexperience and made reservations in a place (nothing fancy, but I'd never imagined I'd ever dare to do sth like that), she was engulfed with herself and her problems at home. I should've told her to make up her mind, and either continue this as a date, or meet with her girlfriend to discuss her overdramatized stuff, and then we can settle an other date if she's still interested. Howewer, I was a tool and I let myself dragged along. I found some of her gestures during our meetings mean and intimidating, but can’t really explain it to you, I just felt she made me look like an idiot, in a bad way. Later she gave me the silent treatment because she found some of the stuff I've said during our fb chat (!!!!!) offensive. I insisted to work it out, she kept the silent treatment going, I gave her an "ultimatum", but not in a demanding way, but rather in a "I'd like if it could work, buta t least give me a no" way. No replies, so I defriendd her on FB, deleted her phone number, regular stuff some guys do when they are hurt, lol. A month later she calls, but I'm a total dick; we agree on that she'll call me later on that night. I got drunk. She did not call. I got super drunk, got into a 1 vs many verbal fight on the street, got myself knocked out twice. Best day ever. I recently re-added her on facebook, it was shit knowing that I'm in an "I hate your gut!!" situation with someone I used to have good talks with, so I apologised for my part of douchebagery, and let it be. Howewer, she kept messaging me. I did not read much into it, I know she's social, but it reminded me why I like her, so I had this idea born in my mind, that eventually I'm gonna try to ask her out again, or just simply ask her where did I fuck up, so at least I'll know what not to do next when I'm in a dating process with someone. That's how I imagined it anyway, but my friends told me off, that the latter is quite retarded and won't benefit me much, and if I'm serious about the former, I should go for it asap, not set it for the summer, or whenever I'll feel more comfortable. So I asked her out (made it clear, that it is NOT a friendly meeting), and she said yes, depending how awkward it'll be after everything that happened. I have no idea what was going on between us the last time, let alone how could she say yes after all those things, especially if we consider how many inappropriate things I did, like asking if we are a couple after the first kiss, or buying a plush after just 3 dates for no particular reason - I just felt it is a nice thing to do. If she said yes (or sth along the lines of "lets give it a try") after all those things, it is a good sign, right? I mean, I pretty much showed all of my bad sides. The good thing is that I'm in no hurry now, the bad is that it is 3 hours plus to get there AND another 3 hours plus to get back, but it won't be a problem for a long time whether it works out (can sleep there) or not (no reason to go there to begin with). I just don't know how to go about it; we already had a walk, we got semi-drunk, and I ticked the "let's be a gentleman and reserve something" box as well. Should I even mention the past, or just pretend like nothing happened? Considering the date would start in the afternoon, and that I remember you guys saying that sex is HUGE determining whether a relationship of any kind could work, I should probably insist on meeting at her place (with some funny cover story, even though we both knew what I meant), get drunk (i.e. playing a game where everyone drinks a shot and can ask something from each other) and get it on. It’s straightforward and confident, but can be repelling as well imo. Again, I have no idea what goes on in her mind, whether she expects something gentle, or me finally saying „I’d bang you” – funnily enough, I never actually said it, not even when we were talking about sex in general. I know the only thing I’m not questioning here is my breathig sequence, but when I did stuff on my own, I just messed things up, and many advices I neglected turned out to be true. I feel like you are asking such a general plz help me question that it is difficult for anyone to give you specific advice. That said, some things I would recommend: 1. Do something that you enjoy. Take her out for something that you would enjoy regardless of her. People like to be around others who are happy, comfortable, and confident. Picking an activity that interests you will help you be those things as well as give you an easy topic for small talk. 2. Day dates are the hallmark of friendship. It's all well and good to meet up for coffee or go running or whatever when you are just getting to know each other, but when you have specifically invited a girl on a date make sure it goes through the evening/night. If you're starting in the afternoon, just know that you've got enough things to do together that you will be having fun into the evening. 3. Don't be overly fawning. Being nice and being a "nice guy" aren't really the same thing. Friends can call each other on their bullshit or make fun of each other. That doesn't mean you should mock her or insult her; the point is just that nonstop compliments does not make you "close" or "good". A practical example of this would be simply choosing the activity for your date. If you call beforehand and ask her what she wants to do, you're being a "nice guy" rather than nice. If you show up and tell her what you wanted to take her out to do and are open to her thoughts, then you're being nice. 4. You suggest playing a drinking game with "everyone." Presumably this means you're planning on taking her to some kind of public social situation. You also say that she is more than 3 hours away and you have no reason other than her to take you there. How do you plan on arranging this drinking group then? Inviting someone into a social situation with a bunch of people they don't know can be difficult for some people.
1. I like to buy new clothes or just simply window shopping in every single place, but somehow I can't vision it as the holy grail for me now.
4. Oh no, I would not take her out with my friends until we feel comfortable around each other. I meant the drinking game 1 on 1. I remember, I saw it on Lost when [spoiler alert!:D] Kate and Sawyer found a bunch of shots. They played this game, where they asked questions from each other, and they had to tell the truth or drink one. Or something like that, I can't remember exactly, but they drank and Kate cried. The point is, we get chilled, while at the same time, we can know more about each other, and not in a "what is your fav. colour" way. It sounds great, but the whole suggestion can come across as pushy ("lets drink at your place then possibly fuck").
My questions are general, but I think the whole situation of resuming dating is not that ordinary at all. I don't know what is the next step here, since she's not the innocent girl who needs 10 romantic dates to decide to finally advance things or not. We know a lot about eachother already, we walked around, we sat down and discussed stuff, we goofed around, we drank and enjoyed ourselves; really, all the basic stuff. I have to "win her", but I don't feel I can show much more to her on a social level (I'm the same guy as before, but less desperate), while if our intimacy level would have a progress bar, it'd sat around 5%.
A thing to note: she's kinda cold. She appreciates nice gestures (and admitted she did not really get much from his boyfriends), but it seems to scare her as well at the same time. You know, you kinda want to say awwww and hug her, but she built up a world for herself where things like that just doesn't happen with her on a romantic level.
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So basically youre saying that youre a) too insecure to be yourself, b) youre putting her up a pedestal and defending/rationalizing why she is being cold, and c) stating that her boyfriends were ignoring her.
Basically it boils down to not beeing needy, not being too nice, and being very forward. Sounds like youre overthinking way too much, trying too prove stuff way too hard, and while you think youre a complicated guy who has deep grounds, to me youre just a shallow guy who has no idea how the world works. And this last part is scary because you think you know stuff better than others.
Why am I saying this so harshly? Because you will probably respond very hard to what I just said. And if you want to succeed with her, you REALLY need to be able to have a clear head when you get criticism, and really not care about what you lose (since when persuing the goals that are most important to you, what you might lose is insignificant). You want to marry her and make lovely babies, you gotta be able to risk the "friendship". Being too needy/kind will just dig you deeper into her friendzone, which will sort of confuse her and push her away when you are trying to bed her.
So, dont overload her, dont come up with explanations because she probably doesnt care, and just be yourself. You dont have to prove anything, as she is contacting you.
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On March 28 2014 00:37 TOCHMY wrote:
General rule: don't date co-workers. Imagine stuff going sour and having to see her every day. That sucks. (EDIT: didn't see that monday was the last time you'll work together. So you can ignore this part of the post =] )
Some people are like that, they like to touch people they speak to or just generally be close to people. Safest route is to not take that as flirting. I mean, if she's like sitting next to you, touches your leg and looks deeply into your eyes while biting her lip, that's another matter...
That said, getting contact on a personal level isn't necessarily bad. I go out with my co-workers from time to time, to grab a beer and whatnot.
Thank you 
Weather forecast predicts that it will get pretty warm next week. I guess I´ll just ask her out for ice cream, not very original but why not?
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On March 28 2014 07:36 Volband wrote:
Trying to plan every move is not exceptionlly just for her, would've been the same with someone else.
If she wants to have sex with me, we don't need any alcohol, obviously, it's just for making me more comfortable and relaxed. "Be the best version of yourself", I've been told, but for that I need some help bringing down some walls which otherwise make me stiff in such a situation (aka date, not sex). I don't mean super-drunk, even a shot could be just fine. I feel like I can't win here; If I insist on anything that involves alcohol, I'm shallow, but if I do something nice and thoughtful, I'm just the good guy who gives out plushes, and would like to cuddle you, which is nice and all, but not the biggest turn on.
I honestly don't know about my chances; not rejecting me after all of this can mean many things, from me having actually a good shot with her, to her just being unnecessarily nice to me. I wouldn't even be shocked if it would fall through, but if I've learned anything during my past months, it is to never assume you already lost.
I want to go out with her again because I genuenly like her. I doubt we could have a serious relationship (though I tend to daydream about it, but I remain rational), but since I got more confident, I found her all the more attractive, because I really dig her personality. I'd also like her to be my first; recently I haven't felt the urge to lose it with just anyone. Maybe I shouldn't make a big deal out of it, but I'd like to remember it wit at least some fondness.
Ok here's what I'd recommend for planning. Before you go out with her, come up with some fun activities the two of you can do together where you can interact and enjoy each other's company. Something like meet up for dinner, grab some drinks at a bar afterward, and then something active like bowling/pool/mini golf, versus something passive such as seeing a movie. Figure out all the logistics and the general timeline. Once you've got all that figured out, turn the analytical part of your brain off. You want to switch to a fun easy going mode. Since you already know what you're going to be doing, you can now just relax and enjoy the night.
Most importantly BE YOURSELF. Are you clingy, needy, and insecure around your friends? I'd hope not. So don't be clingy, needy, and insecure around a girl. Just be yourself. If she doesn't like you for who you are, then its not meant to be. Move on. I'd recommend moving on anyway since it didn't work out the first time around, and why are you pursuing a failed relationship? But if she wants to see you again, well go for it, but don't put too much hope into it. Have dates with other women lined up.
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On March 29 2014 00:25 Slayers_Red.Cracker wrote:
So basically youre saying that youre a) too insecure to be yourself, b) youre putting her up a pedestal and defending/rationalizing why she is being cold, and c) stating that her boyfriends were ignoring her.
Basically it boils down to not beeing needy, not being too nice, and being very forward. Sounds like youre overthinking way too much, trying too prove stuff way too hard, and while you think youre a complicated guy who has deep grounds, to me youre just a shallow guy who has no idea how the world works. And this last part is scary because you think you know stuff better than others.
Why am I saying this so harshly? Because you will probably respond very hard to what I just said. And if you want to succeed with her, you REALLY need to be able to have a clear head when you get criticism, and really not care about what you lose (since when persuing the goals that are most important to you, what you might lose is insignificant). You want to marry her and make lovely babies, you gotta be able to risk the "friendship". Being too needy/kind will just dig you deeper into her friendzone, which will sort of confuse her and push her away when you are trying to bed her.
So, dont overload her, dont come up with explanations because she probably doesnt care, and just be yourself. You dont have to prove anything, as she is contacting you.
And what if being myself is being too kind? When I was being nice with her it was just because I wanted to be nice with her, nothing more, nothing less.
To be honest, if I was being VERY forward and VERY myself, I'd just tell her that I really like her, I find her attractive and I think we should finally woohoo; we've been dancig around it far too long. We know each other much better than the regular dating couple, who just met a week ago or so. ... this would lead me to suggest anything at her place, and this is me not overthinking, just going headstrong at this,
If I overthink it; how would it come across to her? She just agreed to give it another try and let's hope it won't be awkward, and my first suggestion is this. And I could go on and on and on with the overthinking part. I'm definetly shallow here and it's most probably because I don't put trust in my better judgement when it comes to this.
On March 29 2014 03:02 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 07:36 Volband wrote:
Trying to plan every move is not exceptionlly just for her, would've been the same with someone else.
If she wants to have sex with me, we don't need any alcohol, obviously, it's just for making me more comfortable and relaxed. "Be the best version of yourself", I've been told, but for that I need some help bringing down some walls which otherwise make me stiff in such a situation (aka date, not sex). I don't mean super-drunk, even a shot could be just fine. I feel like I can't win here; If I insist on anything that involves alcohol, I'm shallow, but if I do something nice and thoughtful, I'm just the good guy who gives out plushes, and would like to cuddle you, which is nice and all, but not the biggest turn on.
I honestly don't know about my chances; not rejecting me after all of this can mean many things, from me having actually a good shot with her, to her just being unnecessarily nice to me. I wouldn't even be shocked if it would fall through, but if I've learned anything during my past months, it is to never assume you already lost.
I want to go out with her again because I genuenly like her. I doubt we could have a serious relationship (though I tend to daydream about it, but I remain rational), but since I got more confident, I found her all the more attractive, because I really dig her personality. I'd also like her to be my first; recently I haven't felt the urge to lose it with just anyone. Maybe I shouldn't make a big deal out of it, but I'd like to remember it wit at least some fondness. Ok here's what I'd recommend for planning. Before you go out with her, come up with some fun activities the two of you can do together where you can interact and enjoy each other's company. Something like meet up for dinner, grab some drinks at a bar afterward, and then something active like bowling/pool/mini golf, versus something passive such as seeing a movie. Figure out all the logistics and the general timeline. Once you've got all that figured out, turn the analytical part of your brain off. You want to switch to a fun easy going mode. Since you already know what you're going to be doing, you can now just relax and enjoy the night. Most importantly BE YOURSELF. Are you clingy, needy, and insecure around your friends? I'd hope not. So don't be clingy, needy, and insecure around a girl. Just be yourself. If she doesn't like you for who you are, then its not meant to be. Move on. I'd recommend moving on anyway since it didn't work out the first time around, and why are you pursuing a failed relationship? But if she wants to see you again, well go for it, but don't put too much hope into it. Have dates with other women lined up.
Well, the only reason I like this suggestion is that because if I'm being myself I really can't say to me later things like "argh, I should've done that!". If I fail, it's all on me, and not on something well-schemed.
Howewer, I still remember the "be the STRONG yourself", which is somewhat different.
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On March 29 2014 03:16 Volband wrote:
Well, the only reason I like this suggestion is that because if I'm being myself I really can't say to me later things like "argh, I should've done that!". If I fail, it's all on me, and not on something well-schemed.
Howewer, I still remember the "be the STRONG yourself", which is somewhat different.
Exactly, if it doesn't work out, view everything as a learning experience. Its not that you weren't good enough, its just that you weren't really compatible. Frame it in a way so that you don't become a wretched mess afterward. Every date should be an opportunity to learn how to banter, how to be comfortable in your own skin, and how to show a girl a good time. It is also a learning opportunity to learn what kind of girl you're most compatible with, which won't come until you've gone on many dates with many different women.Which is why you should have more than one date lined up. From your post it sounds like you're putting all your eggs into one basket and are completely smitten with this girl which is ridiculous because you were never a couple.
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The shortest advice I'd have to give Volband is: Relax dude.
You're just too invested and stressed in this.
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On March 28 2014 01:44 Bongy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 19:05 ThunderGod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2014 05:13 ThunderGod wrote:
Despite two longterm relationships I have very little experience at chasing women.
Anyway I've been hanging out with a girl recently we met through a shared interest so I knew her a little bit already but never spoken to her before. Turns out we get on great and we've hung out a couple of times, conversation has always been funny banter with flirty overtones and lots of physical contact, (thighs touching, hand on back, hand on thigh sort of thing).
Anyway I had her over at my place for the first time last night. Things were going well, plenty of touching and laughing and I am semi snuggling her on the bed. She has really impressive breasts and she kept deliberately rearranging herself on the bed so I would have a good view down her top. So signs are looking good. Anyway I see her lick her lips so decide to go in for the kiss. It's not something I would have done naturally as I'm pretty shy with that sort of thing but my problem has been not making a move in the past and everything I've read on here suggests that when things get to this point I need to make a move before I get friend-zoned :/
Anyway I lean in for the kiss and I see her eyes widen in surprise and she shies away. So I mega awkwardly pulled back and kind of kissed her forehead a little bit on the way out. After maybe 10 seconds of me feeling really bad/awkward I manage to start the conversation again but a minute later she says she has to go home now so obviously I've fucked up.
Am I just terrible at reading body language or is she just super flirty/touchy and wasn't expecting anything to happen? I know she is normally shy/introverted around people she doesn't know well.
The last bit is I'm driving her home and we are talking a bit but with no real spark. It's a bit too obvious to ignore the whole thing happened so I decide to feel out the waters and say lightly "Sorry if I was being too cosy" and she says "nah it's fine" but it felt like just a polite courtesy and she couldn't wait to get out of the car.
I know I shouldn't let it bother me but I slept like shit last night and feeling a bit nauseous. What's my next step? I was thinking just leave it up to her as the ball is now in her court but I will see her again at our shared interest tonight. Well I was hoping to get some advice but I don't think it matters. She was completely frozen towards me, wouldn't catch my eye or speak to me. I must have misjudged the whole situation pretty badly. Guess I have ruined the start of a good friendship also. Doesn't really feel worth it for not being Mr Nice Guy for once. Considering I see her every week is there any way I can salvage this so that's it's not super awkward between us now? Just talk with her about the situation and continue accordingly based on the response. No reason to be immature and ignore her just 'cause she's ignoring you. But go into the conversation with the aim to salvage a friend and then you can always steer towards a closer relationship depending on the outcome and future engagements.
Well I texted her acknowledging the rejection and saying that I respect that and that I still think she's cool if she wants to hang out in future. Anyway 24 hours and no response so I guess I'll just forget about this whole thing and hope she doesn't spread nasty rumours about me through my social circle although I really don't feel I have done anything too wrong?
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Dont worry about social circles. And you havent done anything "wrong". Sure as a human being that has the ability to learn you can always do stuff "better" but unless you got a time-machine, you should just move on. You made a move, which makes you a boss. Sure it might have been awkward but in my mind youre the winner.
And dont be afraid to show your friends your feelings and emotions on this matter. Being ignored while you want to fix stuff is fucking horrible. Ive been there a long time ago and it was a very long and painful road. But accepting and daring to show my emotions helped me move on. Back then it sort of was a festering mixture of anger, disappointment, loneliness and affection. And the longer I tried to defend her, the more difficult it became to hold myself together. Sure I understand the girl, and Im still on her side rationally, but in these matters its not about what others think, its about what you yourself feel and experience.
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On March 29 2014 19:01 Slayers_Red.Cracker wrote:
Dont worry about social circles. And you havent done anything "wrong". Sure as a human being that has the ability to learn you can always do stuff "better" but unless you got a time-machine, you should just move on. You made a move, which makes you a boss. Sure it might have been awkward but in my mind youre the winner.
And dont be afraid to show your friends your feelings and emotions on this matter. Being ignored while you want to fix stuff is fucking horrible. Ive been there a long time ago and it was a very long and painful road. But accepting and daring to show my emotions helped me move on. Back then it sort of was a festering mixture of anger, disappointment, loneliness and affection. And the longer I tried to defend her, the more difficult it became to hold myself together. Sure I understand the girl, and Im still on her side rationally, but in these matters its not about what others think, its about what you yourself feel and experience.
I agree with this a lot. You were afraid to do something and you did it anyway. That makes you a winner. Do it 10 more times and you will be progressively more confident and more competent. That's how your results skyrocket, and it applies to anything.
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On March 29 2014 14:59 rezoacken wrote:
The shortest advice I'd have to give Volband is: Relax dude.
You're just too invested and stressed in this.
I am indeed, but now that I'm drunk as fuvvvvkkk, I asked her if she wants go to a "disco-party" with me. Note, I've never been to any clubs before. Note:probably she neither.
Note: I have no idea what im doing, but I'm listening to my (drunk) self. Fuck
Note: i should never drink. ever. unessshe simehow says yes. then im a gebious. fuck
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He seems like a good cautionary tale of what not to do.
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What not to think, as well.
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On March 30 2014 07:17 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 14:59 rezoacken wrote:
The shortest advice I'd have to give Volband is: Relax dude.
You're just too invested and stressed in this. I am indeed, but now that I'm drunk as fuvvvvkkk, I asked her if she wants go to a "disco-party" with me. Note, I've never been to any clubs before. Note:probably she neither. Note: I have no idea what im doing, but I'm listening to my (drunk) self. Fuck Note: i should never drink. ever. unessshe simehow says yes. then im a gebious. fuck
I'm gonna hold onto this.
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On March 30 2014 07:17 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 14:59 rezoacken wrote:
The shortest advice I'd have to give Volband is: Relax dude.
You're just too invested and stressed in this. I am indeed, but now that I'm drunk as fuvvvvkkk, I asked her if she wants go to a "disco-party" with me. Note, I've never been to any clubs before. Note:probably she neither. Note: I have no idea what im doing, but I'm listening to my (drunk) self. Fuck Note: i should never drink. ever. unessshe simehow says yes. then im a gebious. fuck
I hate this guy. At least he was smart enough to invite her in written form, and reading it back now, it doesn't seem drunk/desperate. God, I hope she says no, otherwise I'm fucked, haha.
On a COMPLETELY UNRELATED note, should I go out of my comfort zone to meet new people, girls, or it's a bad idea? As I said, I'm not a club guy, and I fear not enjoying myself.
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No stay in your comfort zone forever. You seem very satisfied and happy with yourself.
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On March 30 2014 17:04 Slayers_Red.Cracker wrote:
No stay in your comfort zone forever. You seem very satisfied and happy with yourself.
Edit: could just add a constructive note. I learned how to club. Generally it its awkward because yoy never do it. I just went with the right people and after 10 minutes they told me to chill the fuck out, not talk to anyone but them and just dance. After some time I think I just forgot about my surroundings and it was actually enjoyable. Met some girls while clubbing but they were never the goal.
Moral of the story: sometimes you avoid stuff because it makes you feel awkward. But you should give certain things a chance. Sure you can look at others and see what they are doing, which is okay, bit in the end you should just go with your own flow.
Tips for clubbing: dont look at your feet while dancing, and just move on the rhytm. Also steal dancemoves from other people. If someone does something cool just ask him/her to show you, and dont follow people around all night. Also make it a rule that you never stand still. And dont pay attention to other people unless they come up to you or when youre copying their moves. Also never buy other people drinks unless they also buy you. All boils down to you having a good time.
(Writing from my android so dont pay attention to typos. Also noticed I misclicked the edit button in previous post)
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Netherlands6175 Posts
So there is this new show on DSTV called 'Ninety Days to Wed'. Basically a reality tv show about people who meet online or whilst visiting another country and they start dating internationally. One partner gets a 'fiance VISA' which lasts ninety days, and flies over to the other. They then have 90 days before the VISA expires to decide whether they want to wed or not. Episode 3 of S1 is coming on just now. I have watched a few previews and am fairly intrigued by this, so I think I am going to watch. It is a pretty interesting concept.
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My coworkers told me about that show when I started talking about how I was going to be importing my fiance. Some of the things they told me about the featured couples were alarming - like some of the women were very clearly not into the dudes and it seemed like they were just doing it to get into the US.
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Netherlands6175 Posts
On March 31 2014 01:38 Calanthe wrote:
My coworkers told me about that show when I started talking about how I was going to be importing my fiance. Some of the things they told me about the featured couples were alarming - like some of the women were very clearly not into the dudes and it seemed like they were just doing it to get into the US.
Yeah, the previews are talking about that too, and some of the girls being 'mail-order brides' D: It is just starting.
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EPT
