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On August 28 2013 09:30 r.Evo wrote: You pretty much said it yourself already besides one small mistake:
Well, fuck me, apparently this was a "date" just from my perspective and all my effort was for nothing. We went out three times and had good time in all of them and at the end she told me she really values my friendship and there's really no male friends that she felt this close and comfortable with, but she doesn't really think she would want it to go any further.
She considered you interesting, you were checking each other out, there was no sexual attraction from her side. Sorry to make it seem that simple but it really is that simple. You did stuff together, you had fun talking, you shared emotions, you did all the things friends do.
People who want to be rabbits (might) do those things as well but they also touch each other, they make ambiguous comments, they push and pull and they tease - they flirt. Those things accumulate until the only possible next step is a kiss and finally figuring out who's hutch it is for the night.
What you could do better next time? Stop worrying. "Making a move" is one of the most stupid things in the context of dating. You don't "make a move" when you're attracted to someone. Everything you do, say and think is a move. Whether that's playful teasing, thinking naughty while looking into her eyes for just a bit longer than it would be appropriate or boxing her / patting her on the head every chance you get is up to you. Show her that you like her with actions and be empathetic to whether she is enjoying it or not. Usually it's pretty obvious if she does.
You're there for the chase, you're there to screw her brain out and you're there to make her crazy about you. You're not there to be just another person in the universe that's cool to hang out with.
I'm torn by this statement. While I agree, you should be flirting, dropping hints, teasing in every situation, I still feel there's a difference between e.g. joking about what you would do to eachother and then doing something physical. Just like... Holding her, grabbing her hand, kissing her, taking the initiative...
For me it's easy to talk the talk... The moves for me takes courage... But then again... People are different
Well, durp, that's why I mentioned examples that involve action. It's more about the mindset - the very thought "Should I maybe put my arm around her?" is already a move. You already decided that you would really, really like to do it. "Now stop asking questions no one can answer and just do it. She'll tell you whether it was a bad idea or not."
On August 13 2013 07:09 Bleak wrote: A girl from college that I haven't seen for a long time called me and asked whether I wanted to go to a concert with her. I liked the band and wasn't in any relationships at that time, and I said yes. We went out, had dinner, and the concert was pretty good, I had good time. As we departed for the night, she said she'd like to spend more time together later on and she'll wait up for my call.
Now I am kind of eager to make that call because 1) I know her already so it's easier to form a connection 2) She's quite alright in terms of looks and she falls into my type and 3) I feel like I really need a relationship.
However, I really don't know what would be the best meet up location for a second date. A dinner and movie? Dinner and taking a walk, having a chat? A museum trip? I sort of feel like after our first "date" so to speak, the concert kind of set the bar high and I need to do something as great in terms of importance.
Is this just stupid line of thinking? I feel like she already likes me because if she didn't she wouldn't have called me up after a long time and if she had a bf she would go to the concert with him already. So to me it feels like all the signs are there. Now, how should I act?
Well, fuck me, apparently this was a "date" just from my perspective and all my effort was for nothing. We went out three times and had good time in all of them, but at the end she told me she really values my friendship and there's really no male friends that she felt this close and comfortable with, but she doesn't really think she would want it to go any further. She asked me what I think of her through texting, and I said I think we're pretty good friends and we know how to spend good time together, and if she wanted we could have been more than friends.
I don't really get it. I'm not and I wasn't that naive to think that just because someone called me up for a concert once, that doesn't have to mean they're into me. However, as we were leaving she basically said I'll wait the next move from you, I want to hear from you etc. If she hadn't said that I would have just treated the night as a time well spent watching a great rock band with a friend. After that we texted a lot, she said she wanted to meet, hang out and pretty much told me to pick time and place myself and she would just be fine with anything. To me that pretty much meant she's at least interested me in me a little bit.
So there are two (perhaps three?) possibilities, either I said or did something that changed her mind during our "dates" (so to speak, at least from my angle) which I really doubt, they all went fine and I didn't notice anything that made her uncomfortable or annoyed. Or, she wasn't into me the least bit all the time and all she wanted was someone to hang out with. A third possibility is that she just straight up changed her mind.
I don't get any of it, she has a group of really close girl buddies of her that she could have called up to spend time with, so why call me? Am I seriously the only person around her that might have wanted to go to a rock concert with her, or have dinner, or chat? She could call her coworkers, her closer friends, hell even his own dad who's basically a diehard fan of the band we went to watch. Should I really believe this? Not saying men and women can be either friends or lovers and not both, but still, she must have been pretty desperate to get anyone to spend time with if she has to call someone she hasn't heard or seen for over a year.
I have been sort of respectful in opening up myself and my feelings to her because as I said, we only went out for three times and honestly I wasn't exactly sure she really liked me apart from her liking spending time with me so I sort of hesitated to make a move. I have been thinking for a way to say it, but we just kept chatting for freaking hours about pretty much everything that I couldn't really find the space to bring up the issue without breaking that nice aura and connection. Maybe she wanted me to be more assertive about my feelings for her, so when I stayed respectful she herself was disappointed and that changed her mind? I must admit, I haven't been specifically thinking about dating her myself, maybe I was interested in the idea that someone was interested in me, rather than specifically her, however as I said she really falls into my type and was one of the girls I find attractive in our class, and I wasn't in a relationship for some time and so I thought hell, maybe I give it a shot and see what happens. We spent really good time together, she was happy, smiling, having fun, laughing at my jokes etc. all through the time we were together.
Help me TL, did I read the signs wrong, or did I make a mistake?
Girls are really different and hard to figure out. Had I been in your place, I'd expect she thought it was for dating intentions. You say you didn't really open up much and hesitated to make any moves. Maybe a more aggresive move could had made a difference? Hard to tell by now, I know... But without knowing you or her better, my best advice is horrible:
Bitches be cray-cray, guurlfriend
But being aggressive about it to me felt like I might scare her off and make her uncomfortable. I didn't really want to do that that was the reason for me to wait and observe. I didn't wanna move super fast from the first couple dates before I was sure she was really interested in me.
When she agreed to go out for a third time I thought yea I think she likes me and I am pretty damn sure only a blind and deaf person wouldn't notice my interest in her through my actions and body language etc. Did I really have to say I find you attractive bla bla openly and explicitly? Don't actions speak louder than words? I prepared a gift in the form of a music CD for her by myself, thinking because she likes rock music, she might enjoy it. I kept texting her and asking how her week/day went. I made it pretty clear multiple times that I really like spending time with her and continue to do so if she also desires to. All these things to me seem like should be enough to show I'm interested in her, and shouldn't really require a huge fucking road sign saying "HEY, I'M INTERESTED IN YOU, YOU KNOW?". I'm sure she must have got the idea too. Yet if she really saw it, and she herself sort of wanted to initiate the date in the first place (if she really saw it as a date, anyway) then that should make her content that this guy is interested in me.
Oh well, I guess she really did wanted to be friends. Kind of nice, maybe I just overshot and read all the signs to be something else...
You weren't afraid of her being uncomfortable. You didn't want to wait and observe. You were afraid of her rejecting you because you're into her.
Asking how her day was or buying her gifts like this isn't building any kind of sexual tension. Why would she care about your emotional interest when it comes to a relationship? Friends already invest in each other emotionally. What friends, usually, don't do is invest in each other sexually. That's what you missed completely.
On August 28 2013 06:23 Mentalizor wrote: So... an update on my date with my best friend:
I showed up with food and started cooking for us while we were drinking wine. It was nice, but not really that romantic. I got cold feet about making any moves... However, when it got past 2am in the morning, I laid my head in her lap, her fingers running through my hair, I start to collect some courage anyway... Then of course... She starts yawning... I yawn aswell, and she yawns yet again - like twice in 10secs... Me: It's late Her: Yeah... Me: Want to sleep?... I could need some myself, so I'll just head on home Her: No need for that
It wasn't much... but enough for me to sit up and just go for it... We kiss for a solid 30minutes and end up going to her bedroom and well... Excellent ending on a good night
Next morning we walk around her appartment for like 2 hours talking about what now... Agreeing (again) it was just fun, and we were both in positions that allowed us to do stupid things (wine/heartbreaks/etc)... Not sure if we're awkward now. We text a lotshe thinks about me all the time still - and she's visiting sunday for a lazySEX sunday with moviesSEX... Not sure what to expectLOTS OF SEX. Wont make any movesYou probably won't need to.
Was fun - I'm glad it happened... Most likely wont happen again though
Translation in bold.
Geeh, thanks for the translation, buddy... I'm really not sure though... I mean... After all the talking and texting we've agreed to not become a thing... Even though she could be my type, I don't think I would match her dreamguy (I'm tall, dark, but not muscular at all - she wants a tall, blonde, beefhead) - and I don't want to risk our friendship for some rebound sex.
And again... all the texting, we've agreed to go back to being just friends... While I was visiting her sunday, we kept talking about how stupid it would be for us to end up together - yet we did later on without her backing out. So I can't know for sure, what she's thinking... But I don't think it's sexsexsex
You should be mindful that such a situation can develop to whatever the hell you want it to develop. Considering that you're trying to avoid making a decision you should probably figure out what exactly you want in the first place.
That Bob Ross quote doesn't really discourage me from wanting to try something, when you put it like that
I mean... I actually WOULD love to get a girl like her. After all, she's my best friend and I've known her for 8 years... There's a reason I love to hang out with her. She's funny, insightful, honest, loyal and pretty as hell... So if it could turn into whatever the fuck I wanted, I'd love for it to turn into something relationshippy... but I feel it's too risky to push us in that direction... Especially without knowing her intentions/thoughts on the matter. What she tells me is leaning towards being friends. But then again so is what I am telling her. But clearly we don't always act according to our words in this matter.
Haha. Bob Ross always wins!
Obviously no one here will be able to tell you what exactly would happen if you guys would make it into a relationship. No one can tell you whether it will end in horrible heartbreak and never talking again or whether you'd be best buddies afterwards just like before.
What I can tell you however is this: -You guys go along well and like each other on a probably deeper level than most other people. There is rapport, there is comfort. -You're sexually attracted to each other.
...the only thing that's missing for a relationship quite frankly is sex on a regular basis. You're already past being "just buddies" by figuring out that there is sexual tension between you (assuming it wasn't totally aweful, you never know =P).
Coincidently saying one thing and doing the other is among the strongest push & pulls you can do. "I'm not sure if this is a good idea" -> kiss being a prime example. To me from experience such a situation only boils down to whether one side is willing to make that step or not. Escalating things from the friendzone was always one of my favorite things to do and from your description so far it seems so incredibly smooth that I can only assume she had that thought for a while.
e: In case you want to keep going towards that direction make sure to tell her a relationship would be a bad idea because you don't like her hair color and she doesn't like yours!
Hmm, for me being the guy, I'd say the sex was an above average experience - however, haven been in a relationship earlier for nearly 8 years, I know I didn't do my best performance. But I didn't really feel comfortable bursting out a ton of more advanced moves. So I just went with what felt right in the situation. I don't think she think it was awefull at all, but still... Not nearly perfect... And sure, we've kissed a few times now - and slept together once, but I'm still not really sure if she's that sexually attracted - I mean... to go any further than we already did...
And yeah, we do go back a long way... And what amazes me is she still wanted to do it knowing all my flaws - and knowing about me knowing her own flaws - but... All that could easilly vanish if I tried going all in on a "want to date?" if she is on a whole other page in her book...
And yeah... We did the "not a good idea" --> kiss... And I'm afraid you're right. Something wont happen unless someone acts. And knowing her - it would have to be me... putting me in a horrible place...
How do you figure that would turn out? It's actually true... I'm into brunettes - she's blonde - and as mentioned likewise the other way... But can't figure how that would help me make a move later on?
lol, the hair comment was more of a side thing. The idea is simply that you tell her that you don't want a relationship and give a silly explanation for it. Enjoy seeing her argue in favor of it. =P
You don't go "all in by asking her for a date". If you really want to escalate things further here's your gameplan: Be a bit more teasy/flirty (e.g. like the above) than usual and when you're watching a movie together you cuddle. I'm sure you can work from there.
2-3 times later she'll ask you whether you're dating or not. Alternatively she will give you something that makes it clear she isn't interested. Just do what couples do without making a big deal out of it, the "official" rest will come by itself. Look at it as having great fun with an awesome friend of yours. It's your job to escalate sexually, it's her job to get you in a relationship so to speak.
Obviously you're still the only person to figure this out for yourself but for the love of god don't ask her if she wants to date unless you want her to panic and be completely rational about everything. Rationality rarely forms relationships. I think it kind of comes down to how you as a person deals with these kind of things. For me, personally, I could still bite myself much much more for things I didn't do than for things I did do but that turned out badly. Go take some time and figure that portion out on your own.
5 or 10 years down the road would you feel worse about never having given this a try or would it feel worse to have lost a friendship over having given it a try? If either feels horrible, you have made your choice already. If you still feel unsure start calculating your odds and work from there. =P
Hmmm... considering she's visiting this sunday for some movies, I guess she wouldn't mind cuddling up. But really not sure how to move on from there. I don't want a friendship where we keep on telling eachother we shouldn't do anything - yet we do when we're alone...
I think you're hitting the nail right on the head with your rationality statement... And I'm a guy who really digs rationality and straight conversations... I guess I have to let this one be dictated by actions and hints rather than a straight question...
Honestly, I'm a lot more worried about losing the friendship than I am for not trying to dive into this... So... I probably should realize my subconscious decision and back out?
On a side note... We have a ton of mutual friends and she asked me to keep it secret to them... I don't mind doing so - but I wonder if I should read anything into this?
It sounds like she is equally unsure of what she wants.
It sounds to me like youd prefer a relationship, but because of the risk involved you'd rather just maintain the friendship. You both seem to be going through the same process so either decide what you want and start doing that or talk to her and decide that way.
Some people are better at face to face interaction (reading body language, cues, etc) and some operate better when they have time to think a bit. Looks like you should just avoid non-direct contact if you can.
Chances are you are overthinking things and as a result your responses become forced and strange, instead of a natural conversation.
I never quite figured out why the sexual urge of men and women differ so much. And I never have figured out the whole Venus and Mars thing. I have never figured out why men think with their head and women with their heart.
FOR EXAMPLE:
One evening last week, my girlfriend and I were getting into bed. Well, the passion starts to heat up, and she eventually says, ‘I don’t feel like it, I just want you to hold me – I said, ‘WHAT??!! What was that?!’ So she says the words that every boyfriend on the planet dreads to hear…
‘You’re just not in touch with my emotional needs as a woman enough for me to satisfy your physical needs as a man.’
She responded to my puzzled look by saying, ‘Can’t you just love me for who I am and not what I do for you in the bedroom?’
Realizing that nothing was going to happen that night, I went to sleep.
The very next day I opted to take the day off of work to spend time with her. We went out to a nice lunch and then went shopping at a big, big unnamed department store. I walked around with her while she tried on several different very expensive outfit s. She couldn’t decide which one to take, so I told her we’d just buy them all. She wanted new shoes to compliment her new clothes, so I said, ‘Lets get a pair for each outfit.’
We went on to the jewelry department where she picked out a pair of diamond earrings. Let me tell you… she was so excited. She must have thought I was one wave short of a shipwreck. I started to think she was testing me because she asked for a tennis bracelet when she doesn’t even know how to play tennis
I think I threw her for a loop when I said, ‘That’s fine, honey.’ She was almost nearing sexual satisfaction from all of the excitement. Smiling with excited anticipation, she finally said, ‘I think this is all dear, let’s go to the cashier.’
I could hardly contain myself when I blurted out, ‘No honey, I don’t feel like it.’ Her face just went completely blank as her jaw dropped with a baffled, ‘WHAT?’
I then said, ‘Honey! I just want you to HOLD this stuff for a while. You’re just not in touch with my financial needs as a man enough for me to satisfy your shopping needs as a woman.’
And just when she had this look like she was going to kill me, I added, ‘Why can’t you just love me for who I am and not for the things I buy you?’
Apparently I’m not having sex tonight either….but at least that bitch knows I’m smarter than her.
--
This story isn't mine, but it's good enough for this thread.
That story sounds super fake, someone who has the balls for that kind of move in the 2nd situation can't be someone who handles the 1st situation so horribly.
I've had some rather bullshit luck the last few years. The latest one kissed me (not me kissing her...) on the first date. It went longer than she'd planned, so she said, and she said she really liked me going so far as to ask me out for a second date! Turns out, she took about half a week and then starting doing the "Ignore him til he goes away" tactic.
This is a recurring theme. I mean come on, if you don't like the guy don't make out with him. Don't make those kind of moves, don't tell him you like him and for gods sake don't fucking text him for a week after asking how his day was. Just tell him to fuck off...bitches.
If I knew where she lived, I'd lay a log on her doorstep that left a nice corn stain.
It's alright though! I've decided it's time to be more constructive. I feel like hiring hookers/escorts is far better: Think about the opportunity/cost! for 200/hour or whatever you get assured sex and no bullshit. This is compared to, say, 7 first dates where all you get is bullshit and no sex.
Then again....I think there is a real opportunity for a youtube series. Hiring hookers for their "time" (in calgary, alberta it's legal to fuck for money but not legal to plan for it or talk about it) but using that time for them to do manual labor on film. Like fixing drywall holes, laying tile or moving a heavy rock to one place, then back again.
On August 29 2013 18:31 Ponera wrote: I've had some rather bullshit luck the last few years. The latest one kissed me (not me kissing her...) on the first date. It went longer than she'd planned, so she said, and she said she really liked me going so far as to ask me out for a second date! Turns out, she took about half a week and then starting doing the "Ignore him til he goes away" tactic.
This is a recurring theme. I mean come on, if you don't like the guy don't make out with him. Don't make those kind of moves, don't tell him you like him and for gods sake don't fucking text him for a week after asking how his day was. Just tell him to fuck off...bitches.
If I knew where she lived, I'd lay a log on her doorstep that left a nice corn stain.
It's alright though! I've decided it's time to be more constructive. I feel like hiring hookers/escorts is far better: Think about the opportunity/cost! for 200/hour or whatever you get assured sex and no bullshit. This is compared to, say, 7 first dates where all you get is bullshit and no sex.
Then again....I think there is a real opportunity for a youtube series. Hiring hookers for their "time" (in calgary, alberta it's legal to fuck for money but not legal to plan for it or talk about it) but using that time for them to do manual labor on film. Like fixing drywall holes, laying tile or moving a heavy rock to one place, then back again.
I've found my purpose, and the female's purpose.
Man that was some sad reading! I think your model of women and how sex works is severely flawed.
I went to party last night - she wasn't invited, so whenever I had time, I would text her. At one point I send her a message easilly understood as a booty call (which was however not what I was going for), and I get a shitstorm as a reply. > cantdealwith.gif So since I went to a party on a wednesday no trains/busses could get me home, and I had a 1hour+ walk in the middle of the night. Send her a wall-of-text... She calls me at 5am and we talk straight for an hour. We'll go back to just being friends. We both treasure the friendship a ton and when misunderstanding a text can become a problem, then it probably wouldn't be good to try anything else.
She's still visiting for a lazy sunday with movies - and asked if I wanted to go dancing friday... So we'll try to just be friends again
On August 29 2013 20:28 Mentalizor wrote: Okay, final update on me and my friend.
I went to party last night - she wasn't invited, so whenever I had time, I would text her. At one point I send her a message easilly understood as a booty call (which was however not what I was going for), and I get a shitstorm as a reply. > cantdealwith.gif So since I went to a party on a wednesday no trains/busses could get me home, and I had a 1hour+ walk in the middle of the night. Send her a wall-of-text... She calls me at 5am and we talk straight for an hour. We'll go back to just being friends. We both treasure the friendship a ton and when misunderstanding a text can become a problem, then it probably wouldn't be good to try anything else.
She's still visiting for a lazy sunday with movies - and asked if I wanted to go dancing friday... So we'll try to just be friends again
Will you be OK with being confronted with her having sex with someone else? Maybe a mutual friend? Will she?
On August 29 2013 20:28 Mentalizor wrote: Okay, final update on me and my friend.
I went to party last night - she wasn't invited, so whenever I had time, I would text her. At one point I send her a message easilly understood as a booty call (which was however not what I was going for), and I get a shitstorm as a reply. > cantdealwith.gif So since I went to a party on a wednesday no trains/busses could get me home, and I had a 1hour+ walk in the middle of the night. Send her a wall-of-text... She calls me at 5am and we talk straight for an hour. We'll go back to just being friends. We both treasure the friendship a ton and when misunderstanding a text can become a problem, then it probably wouldn't be good to try anything else.
She's still visiting for a lazy sunday with movies - and asked if I wanted to go dancing friday... So we'll try to just be friends again
you might have that ugly feeling when she finds someone to flirt.. you are clearly too attached to her ..
On August 29 2013 18:31 Ponera wrote: I've had some rather bullshit luck the last few years. The latest one kissed me (not me kissing her...) on the first date. It went longer than she'd planned, so she said, and she said she really liked me going so far as to ask me out for a second date! Turns out, she took about half a week and then starting doing the "Ignore him til he goes away" tactic.
This is a recurring theme. I mean come on, if you don't like the guy don't make out with him. Don't make those kind of moves, don't tell him you like him and for gods sake don't fucking text him for a week after asking how his day was. Just tell him to fuck off...bitches.
If I knew where she lived, I'd lay a log on her doorstep that left a nice corn stain.
It's alright though! I've decided it's time to be more constructive. I feel like hiring hookers/escorts is far better: Think about the opportunity/cost! for 200/hour or whatever you get assured sex and no bullshit. This is compared to, say, 7 first dates where all you get is bullshit and no sex.
Then again....I think there is a real opportunity for a youtube series. Hiring hookers for their "time" (in calgary, alberta it's legal to fuck for money but not legal to plan for it or talk about it) but using that time for them to do manual labor on film. Like fixing drywall holes, laying tile or moving a heavy rock to one place, then back again.
I've found my purpose, and the female's purpose.
That's stuck up Calgary bitches for you. I don't even go out in Calgary anymore, and if I do it's to the den. Edmonton has the better quality people, although Calgary sluts can be super hot.
What would you guys recommend as an alternative to inviting girls home either after a date or after a few dates?
On August 29 2013 16:49 r.Evo wrote: That story sounds super fake, someone who has the balls for that kind of move in the 2nd situation can't be someone who handles the 1st situation so horribly.
Definitely fake, I've heard it multiple times before not to mention the ridiculousness of it.
On August 29 2013 22:05 Najda wrote: What would you guys recommend as an alternative to inviting girls home either after a date or after a few dates?
Invite yourself to her home? Not sure what you're asking.
@Mentalizor: Told you you shouldn't verbalize it. =P
I can't bring girls home since I'm at my parents for another year and don't even have my own room. It's fine to just suggest we go to her place instead?
Few days ago I went on a long hike in the middle of the night with a chick and other people we didn't know. We looked at the stars, could see the milky way galaxy and shooting stars. We talked lying down with faces very close and looking into each other's eyes.
She said she wanted to do more activities with me. I asked her out for dinner and she said yes.
Then out of nowhere I get a text asking if another guy friend can join for dinner. I called her and asked wtf is up, and she said she had a boyfriend.
So in a few minutes I'm going to go to this awkward dinner and pretend to have a good time.
EPT
