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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On May 28 2013 06:30 xicoo wrote:
why would you ask her to do something more romantic? you just ask her for dinner, in a romantic setting and she will get the signal for sure, if she doesn´t want to have a sexual relationship with you and says yes to the dinner and doesn´t avoid you at dinner and when you make a move she says no, well my friend she problably is not that nice of a person..
Well, you don't need to repeat the 'let's do something romantic' line, but something that's appropriate for the situation, I just meant that as a generic type of line.
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On May 28 2013 02:55 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 21:33 r.Evo wrote:On May 27 2013 20:20 Grumbels wrote:On May 27 2013 19:35 r.Evo wrote:
If that "standard friendly cheery self" seems to be an issue for you (aka you can keep up conversations well, think things go fine but don't do anything flirty/sexual enough) feel free to try some of the following:
-Don't masturbate for a week or so before the date.
-When you're at the date, picture her naked and what it would be like to make out with her/have sex with her. Use your potentially raging boner as your brain. Even if you might be too nervous/afraid to escalate, your inner caveman will know the drill.
Some kind of potential "What are you thinking about?" gets answered among the lines of "You don't want to know" while holding eye contact and thinking dirty things. Suddenly things are easier than you could have imagined them. But what about self-respect? I surely hope someone is able to accept and respect himself as a sexual human being, without that it's hardly possible to enter a sexual relationship. I don't think it's a good idea to use some technique to pursue a woman that you would be embarrassed to admit to her in case you're successful. If you're not, then more power to you, but personally I would find it creepy to do an exercise in fantasizing having sex with someone. If someone wants to escalate a relationship he can just ask her (e.g. "do you want to do something more romantic next time?" and then take her out for dinner)
Just because you're ashamed of your sexuality, doesn't mean that everyone else is. Most normal people would not be embarrassed to admit that they sexually fantasized about someone else, and most normal people would not find it creepy that they were the object of sexual fantasy.
Also, why are you still giving bad advice when we've already established that you're a forever alone white knight?
On May 28 2013 06:03 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 04:27 r.Evo wrote:On May 28 2013 02:55 Grumbels wrote:On May 27 2013 21:33 r.Evo wrote:On May 27 2013 20:20 Grumbels wrote:On May 27 2013 19:35 r.Evo wrote:
If that "standard friendly cheery self" seems to be an issue for you (aka you can keep up conversations well, think things go fine but don't do anything flirty/sexual enough) feel free to try some of the following:
-Don't masturbate for a week or so before the date.
-When you're at the date, picture her naked and what it would be like to make out with her/have sex with her. Use your potentially raging boner as your brain. Even if you might be too nervous/afraid to escalate, your inner caveman will know the drill.
Some kind of potential "What are you thinking about?" gets answered among the lines of "You don't want to know" while holding eye contact and thinking dirty things. Suddenly things are easier than you could have imagined them. But what about self-respect? I surely hope someone is able to accept and respect himself as a sexual human being, without that it's hardly possible to enter a sexual relationship. I don't think it's a good idea to use some technique to pursue a woman that you would be embarrassed to admit to her in case you're successful. If you're not, then more power to you, but personally I would find it creepy to do an exercise in fantasizing having sex with someone. If someone wants to escalate a relationship he can just ask her (e.g. "do you want to do something more romantic next time?" and then take her out for dinner) How often has just being friendly at a date or two and then asking "do you want to do something more romantic next time" worked out for you? How often has it turned some kind of "wow, I want more from that woman" into a sexual relationship? Do you ask whether she wants to kiss you as well? How does that work out?(*) =P You don't escalate a situation to be more physical by asking her about it. In cases like this you look at what the person in question is missing and look at how you can help him get it. If he'd have said that he's too forward and women perceive that as creepy my first suggestion would have been to go whack off two times before the date. Now that I think about it, it's pretty sad to perceive "go accept that you're horny for that girl and be honest about it" as a "creepy technique". Welp. (*) Irony aside, what really matters is: "Has it worked often enough in different situations and can you teach it to someone else so that it works consistently for him as well?" If you think some elaborate scheme to deprive yourself of sex, while trying to program yourself to constantly fantasize about it, is a healthy way to prepare for escalating a relationship and is not at all creepy then I can't help you.
In other words, you don't actually have an argument, so you instead resort to logically fallacious shaming tactics like calling things you don't agree with creepy.
On May 28 2013 06:48 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:30 xicoo wrote:
why would you ask her to do something more romantic? you just ask her for dinner, in a romantic setting and she will get the signal for sure, if she doesn´t want to have a sexual relationship with you and says yes to the dinner and doesn´t avoid you at dinner and when you make a move she says no, well my friend she problably is not that nice of a person.. Well, you don't need to repeat the 'let's do something romantic' line, but something that's appropriate for the situation, I just meant that as a generic type of line.
It's a type of line used by the socially awkward, involuntarily celibate white knights, and loser provider types.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 28 2013 03:00 Recognizable wrote:
So, I was studying for my exam in the school's library and this girl I've randomly talked to once came to me and we started to talk. Anyway, I asked for her phone number and she gave it to me. However, I have this idea that she might have a boyfriend, because I've seen her with a guy. Just ask her out and see what she says?
Whether she has a boyfriend or not is irrelevant.
If she gives you her number, then she is probably interested, and if she does have a boyfriend, then they will probably break up, go on a "break", or start an open relationship if she decides you're a better prospect.
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I feel like there's a pretty huge disconnect going on between certain posters with respect to giving advice on relationships that will actually stand a chance of lasting versus getting laid.
Pretty huge difference. Certain basic principles like appearing confident, not being dead boring etc. etc. apply to both, but some of the other ploys discussed in this thread are very firmly geared at getting laid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. It's also true that the two incidentally overlap from time to time (e.g. you can seduce some random girl and it turns out she's your soulmate or something) but it's not exactly a sure thing, or even likely.
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On May 28 2013 09:21 Shiori wrote:
I feel like there's a pretty huge disconnect going on between certain posters with respect to giving advice on relationships that will actually stand a chance of lasting versus getting laid.
Pretty huge difference. Certain basic principles like appearing confident, not being dead boring etc. etc. apply to both, but some of the other ploys discussed in this thread are very firmly geared at getting laid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. It's also true that the two incidentally overlap from time to time (e.g. you can seduce some random girl and it turns out she's your soulmate or something) but it's not exactly a sure thing, or even likely.
Seducing a girl who turns out to be your "soulmate" as opposed to what? How else exactly do you propose to find and end up with your "soulmate", except by attracting them in the first place?
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On May 28 2013 09:24 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:21 Shiori wrote:
I feel like there's a pretty huge disconnect going on between certain posters with respect to giving advice on relationships that will actually stand a chance of lasting versus getting laid.
Pretty huge difference. Certain basic principles like appearing confident, not being dead boring etc. etc. apply to both, but some of the other ploys discussed in this thread are very firmly geared at getting laid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. It's also true that the two incidentally overlap from time to time (e.g. you can seduce some random girl and it turns out she's your soulmate or something) but it's not exactly a sure thing, or even likely. Seducing a girl who turns out to be your "soulmate" as opposed to what? How else exactly do you propose to find and end up with your "soulmate", except by attracting them in the first place?
Probably by putting yourself out there honestly and talking to females like you would talk to any other human being. If you have to rely on pre-fabricated conversations or tricks to get girls interested in you, there are bigger problems afoot in your real personality. It's obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship beyond casual sex. You're sort of taking what I said out of context. I meant seducing in the narrowest sense, and I meant "random girl" in the narrowest sense: that is, you're essentially pua-ing some girl who you basically think is pretty on the grounds that she is pretty; no consideration of personality is relevant because the primary aim is to get laid. What I'm saying is that this mindset is essentially wrongheaded for someone who is looking for a meaningful relationship because there's no real depth to the initial pursuit. It could work out, but chances are if you go in looking for hotness + sex and nothing else, you're going to be wading through a lot of shit before you find anyone worth staying with. It's like playing the lottery, more or less. I'm not really referring to anyone in particular, either. There have just been a few examples of this in this thread that I've noticed.
EDIT: I was being facetious with "soulmate," in case it wasn't clear.
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On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:24 sunprince wrote:On May 28 2013 09:21 Shiori wrote:
I feel like there's a pretty huge disconnect going on between certain posters with respect to giving advice on relationships that will actually stand a chance of lasting versus getting laid.
Pretty huge difference. Certain basic principles like appearing confident, not being dead boring etc. etc. apply to both, but some of the other ploys discussed in this thread are very firmly geared at getting laid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. It's also true that the two incidentally overlap from time to time (e.g. you can seduce some random girl and it turns out she's your soulmate or something) but it's not exactly a sure thing, or even likely. Seducing a girl who turns out to be your "soulmate" as opposed to what? How else exactly do you propose to find and end up with your "soulmate", except by attracting them in the first place? Probably by putting yourself out there honestly and talking to females like you would talk to any other human being
The whole point is to develop social skills, and otherwise increase your attractiveness, so that putting yourself out there honestly means that you will be attractive.
On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:
If you have to rely on pre-fabricated conversations or tricks to get girls interested in you, there are bigger problems afoot in your real personality.
"If you have to rely on pre-fabricated build orders, there are bigger problems afoot in your real StarCraft skills."
Do you see the problem with this logic, and why beginners might want to follow build orders at first?
On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:
It's obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship beyond casual sex. You're sort of taking what I said out of context. I meant seducing in the narrowest sense, and I meant "random girl" in the narrowest sense: that is, you're essentially pua-ing some girl who you basically think is pretty on the grounds that she is pretty; no consideration of personality is relevant because the primary aim is to get laid. I'm not really referring to anyone in particular, either. There have just been a few examples of this in this thread that I've noticed.
You contradicted yourself here. If it is obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship, then you're not actually seducing a girl based on merely whether she is pretty, since it typically takes longer than 5 minutes to seduce a girl.
Unless of course, what you're saying is that men shouldn't approach women on the basis of their appearance, which itself makes no sense since you have little knowledge of their other traits until you actually approach them.
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On May 28 2013 09:35 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:On May 28 2013 09:24 sunprince wrote:On May 28 2013 09:21 Shiori wrote:
I feel like there's a pretty huge disconnect going on between certain posters with respect to giving advice on relationships that will actually stand a chance of lasting versus getting laid.
Pretty huge difference. Certain basic principles like appearing confident, not being dead boring etc. etc. apply to both, but some of the other ploys discussed in this thread are very firmly geared at getting laid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. It's also true that the two incidentally overlap from time to time (e.g. you can seduce some random girl and it turns out she's your soulmate or something) but it's not exactly a sure thing, or even likely. Seducing a girl who turns out to be your "soulmate" as opposed to what? How else exactly do you propose to find and end up with your "soulmate", except by attracting them in the first place? Probably by putting yourself out there honestly and talking to females like you would talk to any other human being The whole point is to develop social skills, and otherwise increase your attractiveness, so that putting yourself out there honestly means that you will be attractive. Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:
If you have to rely on pre-fabricated conversations or tricks to get girls interested in you, there are bigger problems afoot in your real personality. "If you have to rely on pre-fabricated build orders, there are bigger problems afoot in your real StarCraft skills." Do you see the problem with this logic, and why beginners might want to follow build orders at first? Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:
It's obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship beyond casual sex. You're sort of taking what I said out of context. I meant seducing in the narrowest sense, and I meant "random girl" in the narrowest sense: that is, you're essentially pua-ing some girl who you basically think is pretty on the grounds that she is pretty; no consideration of personality is relevant because the primary aim is to get laid. I'm not really referring to anyone in particular, either. There have just been a few examples of this in this thread that I've noticed. You contradicted yourself here. If it is obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship, then you're not actually seducing a girl based on merely whether she is pretty, since it typically takes longer than 5 minutes to seduce a girl. Unless of course, what you're saying is that men shouldn't approach women on the basis of their appearance, which itself makes no sense since you have little knowledge of their other traits until you actually approach them.
First paragraph is more or less agreeable, and is in line with what I stated to begin with (i.e. the idea of increasing your confidence, being interesting etc. etc. are good things). What I'm taking issue with is the notion that you're going to find any lasting success by, for lack of a better phrase, faking it or spouting fabricated lines.
Which brings us to your second point: actually, no, there's nothing wrong with that logic at all. It's absolutely true that if you're solely relying on fabricated build orders, you're not going to be winning any GSLs. There is so much more to success in the game than just memorizing some build, and it's nonsense to pretend otherwise. Now, the second part of your sentence is more reasonable: yes, it's understandable that beginners would want to use tried-and-true phrases to get their feet wet. My only distinction has been that while these tried-and-true phrases might make a woman interested in you, they will not make up for the deficiencies of character which generally lurk under the surface of people who are so terribly awkward that they require such phrases.
I'm not sure if your last paragraph is deliberate snarkiness (which would be ironic because of the very obvious hyperbole in my initial claim) or just an attempt at sophistry.
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On May 28 2013 09:45 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:35 sunprince wrote:On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:On May 28 2013 09:24 sunprince wrote:On May 28 2013 09:21 Shiori wrote:
I feel like there's a pretty huge disconnect going on between certain posters with respect to giving advice on relationships that will actually stand a chance of lasting versus getting laid.
Pretty huge difference. Certain basic principles like appearing confident, not being dead boring etc. etc. apply to both, but some of the other ploys discussed in this thread are very firmly geared at getting laid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. It's also true that the two incidentally overlap from time to time (e.g. you can seduce some random girl and it turns out she's your soulmate or something) but it's not exactly a sure thing, or even likely. Seducing a girl who turns out to be your "soulmate" as opposed to what? How else exactly do you propose to find and end up with your "soulmate", except by attracting them in the first place? Probably by putting yourself out there honestly and talking to females like you would talk to any other human being The whole point is to develop social skills, and otherwise increase your attractiveness, so that putting yourself out there honestly means that you will be attractive. On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:
If you have to rely on pre-fabricated conversations or tricks to get girls interested in you, there are bigger problems afoot in your real personality. "If you have to rely on pre-fabricated build orders, there are bigger problems afoot in your real StarCraft skills." Do you see the problem with this logic, and why beginners might want to follow build orders at first? On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:
It's obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship beyond casual sex. You're sort of taking what I said out of context. I meant seducing in the narrowest sense, and I meant "random girl" in the narrowest sense: that is, you're essentially pua-ing some girl who you basically think is pretty on the grounds that she is pretty; no consideration of personality is relevant because the primary aim is to get laid. I'm not really referring to anyone in particular, either. There have just been a few examples of this in this thread that I've noticed. You contradicted yourself here. If it is obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship, then you're not actually seducing a girl based on merely whether she is pretty, since it typically takes longer than 5 minutes to seduce a girl. Unless of course, what you're saying is that men shouldn't approach women on the basis of their appearance, which itself makes no sense since you have little knowledge of their other traits until you actually approach them. First paragraph is more or less agreeable, and is in line with what I stated to begin with (i.e. the idea of increasing your confidence, being interesting etc. etc. are good things). What I'm taking issue with is the notion that you're going to find any lasting success by, for lack of a better phrase, faking it or spouting fabricated lines. Which brings us to your second point: actually, no, there's nothing wrong with that logic at all. It's absolutely true that if you're solely relying on fabricated build orders, you're not going to be winning any GSLs. There is so much more to success in the game than just memorizing some build, and it's nonsense to pretend otherwise. Now, the second part of your sentence is more reasonable: yes, it's understandable that beginners would want to use tried-and-true phrases to get their feet wet. My only distinction has been that while these tried-and-true phrases might make a woman interested in you, they will not make up for the deficiencies of character which generally lurk under the surface of people who are so terribly awkward that they require such phrases.
I agree with you. I think it's worth pointing out that build orders will only get you so far, but at the same time, I also think it's reasonable to provide build orders to beginners looking for basic advice (while also sharing the bigger concepts crucial for more advanced success).
On May 28 2013 09:45 Shiori wrote:
I'm not sure if your last paragraph is deliberate snarkiness (which would be ironic because of the very obvious hyperbole in my initial claim) or just an attempt at sophistry.
No, I was actually just unable to determine the point you made in the part I was responding to, since it appears to either have a logical error, or otherwise self-contradicts.
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On May 28 2013 09:51 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:45 Shiori wrote:On May 28 2013 09:35 sunprince wrote:On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:On May 28 2013 09:24 sunprince wrote:On May 28 2013 09:21 Shiori wrote:
I feel like there's a pretty huge disconnect going on between certain posters with respect to giving advice on relationships that will actually stand a chance of lasting versus getting laid.
Pretty huge difference. Certain basic principles like appearing confident, not being dead boring etc. etc. apply to both, but some of the other ploys discussed in this thread are very firmly geared at getting laid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. It's also true that the two incidentally overlap from time to time (e.g. you can seduce some random girl and it turns out she's your soulmate or something) but it's not exactly a sure thing, or even likely. Seducing a girl who turns out to be your "soulmate" as opposed to what? How else exactly do you propose to find and end up with your "soulmate", except by attracting them in the first place? Probably by putting yourself out there honestly and talking to females like you would talk to any other human being The whole point is to develop social skills, and otherwise increase your attractiveness, so that putting yourself out there honestly means that you will be attractive. On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:
If you have to rely on pre-fabricated conversations or tricks to get girls interested in you, there are bigger problems afoot in your real personality. "If you have to rely on pre-fabricated build orders, there are bigger problems afoot in your real StarCraft skills." Do you see the problem with this logic, and why beginners might want to follow build orders at first? On May 28 2013 09:30 Shiori wrote:
It's obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship beyond casual sex. You're sort of taking what I said out of context. I meant seducing in the narrowest sense, and I meant "random girl" in the narrowest sense: that is, you're essentially pua-ing some girl who you basically think is pretty on the grounds that she is pretty; no consideration of personality is relevant because the primary aim is to get laid. I'm not really referring to anyone in particular, either. There have just been a few examples of this in this thread that I've noticed. You contradicted yourself here. If it is obvious within 5 minutes of conversation whether there would be any merit to a serious relationship, then you're not actually seducing a girl based on merely whether she is pretty, since it typically takes longer than 5 minutes to seduce a girl. Unless of course, what you're saying is that men shouldn't approach women on the basis of their appearance, which itself makes no sense since you have little knowledge of their other traits until you actually approach them. First paragraph is more or less agreeable, and is in line with what I stated to begin with (i.e. the idea of increasing your confidence, being interesting etc. etc. are good things). What I'm taking issue with is the notion that you're going to find any lasting success by, for lack of a better phrase, faking it or spouting fabricated lines. Which brings us to your second point: actually, no, there's nothing wrong with that logic at all. It's absolutely true that if you're solely relying on fabricated build orders, you're not going to be winning any GSLs. There is so much more to success in the game than just memorizing some build, and it's nonsense to pretend otherwise. Now, the second part of your sentence is more reasonable: yes, it's understandable that beginners would want to use tried-and-true phrases to get their feet wet. My only distinction has been that while these tried-and-true phrases might make a woman interested in you, they will not make up for the deficiencies of character which generally lurk under the surface of people who are so terribly awkward that they require such phrases. I agree with you. I think it's worth pointing out that build orders will only get you so far, but at the same time, I also think it's reasonable to provide build orders to beginners looking for basic advice (while also sharing the bigger concepts crucial for more advanced success). ]
Sounds good to me.
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On May 28 2013 09:08 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:55 Grumbels wrote:On May 27 2013 21:33 r.Evo wrote:On May 27 2013 20:20 Grumbels wrote:On May 27 2013 19:35 r.Evo wrote:
If that "standard friendly cheery self" seems to be an issue for you (aka you can keep up conversations well, think things go fine but don't do anything flirty/sexual enough) feel free to try some of the following:
-Don't masturbate for a week or so before the date.
-When you're at the date, picture her naked and what it would be like to make out with her/have sex with her. Use your potentially raging boner as your brain. Even if you might be too nervous/afraid to escalate, your inner caveman will know the drill.
Some kind of potential "What are you thinking about?" gets answered among the lines of "You don't want to know" while holding eye contact and thinking dirty things. Suddenly things are easier than you could have imagined them. But what about self-respect? I surely hope someone is able to accept and respect himself as a sexual human being, without that it's hardly possible to enter a sexual relationship. I don't think it's a good idea to use some technique to pursue a woman that you would be embarrassed to admit to her in case you're successful. If you're not, then more power to you, but personally I would find it creepy to do an exercise in fantasizing having sex with someone. If someone wants to escalate a relationship he can just ask her (e.g. "do you want to do something more romantic next time?" and then take her out for dinner) Just because you're ashamed of your sexuality, doesn't mean that everyone else is. Most normal people would not be embarrassed to admit that they sexually fantasized about someone else, and most normal people would not find it creepy that they were the object of sexual fantasy. Also, why are you still giving bad advice when we've already established that you're a forever alone white knight? Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:03 Grumbels wrote:On May 28 2013 04:27 r.Evo wrote:On May 28 2013 02:55 Grumbels wrote:On May 27 2013 21:33 r.Evo wrote:On May 27 2013 20:20 Grumbels wrote:On May 27 2013 19:35 r.Evo wrote:
If that "standard friendly cheery self" seems to be an issue for you (aka you can keep up conversations well, think things go fine but don't do anything flirty/sexual enough) feel free to try some of the following:
-Don't masturbate for a week or so before the date.
-When you're at the date, picture her naked and what it would be like to make out with her/have sex with her. Use your potentially raging boner as your brain. Even if you might be too nervous/afraid to escalate, your inner caveman will know the drill.
Some kind of potential "What are you thinking about?" gets answered among the lines of "You don't want to know" while holding eye contact and thinking dirty things. Suddenly things are easier than you could have imagined them. But what about self-respect? I surely hope someone is able to accept and respect himself as a sexual human being, without that it's hardly possible to enter a sexual relationship. I don't think it's a good idea to use some technique to pursue a woman that you would be embarrassed to admit to her in case you're successful. If you're not, then more power to you, but personally I would find it creepy to do an exercise in fantasizing having sex with someone. If someone wants to escalate a relationship he can just ask her (e.g. "do you want to do something more romantic next time?" and then take her out for dinner) How often has just being friendly at a date or two and then asking "do you want to do something more romantic next time" worked out for you? How often has it turned some kind of "wow, I want more from that woman" into a sexual relationship? Do you ask whether she wants to kiss you as well? How does that work out?(*) =P You don't escalate a situation to be more physical by asking her about it. In cases like this you look at what the person in question is missing and look at how you can help him get it. If he'd have said that he's too forward and women perceive that as creepy my first suggestion would have been to go whack off two times before the date. Now that I think about it, it's pretty sad to perceive "go accept that you're horny for that girl and be honest about it" as a "creepy technique". Welp. (*) Irony aside, what really matters is: "Has it worked often enough in different situations and can you teach it to someone else so that it works consistently for him as well?" If you think some elaborate scheme to deprive yourself of sex, while trying to program yourself to constantly fantasize about it, is a healthy way to prepare for escalating a relationship and is not at all creepy then I can't help you. In other words, you don't actually have an argument, so you instead resort to logically fallacious shaming tactics like calling things you don't agree with creepy. Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:48 Grumbels wrote:On May 28 2013 06:30 xicoo wrote:
why would you ask her to do something more romantic? you just ask her for dinner, in a romantic setting and she will get the signal for sure, if she doesn´t want to have a sexual relationship with you and says yes to the dinner and doesn´t avoid you at dinner and when you make a move she says no, well my friend she problably is not that nice of a person.. Well, you don't need to repeat the 'let's do something romantic' line, but something that's appropriate for the situation, I just meant that as a generic type of line. It's a type of line used by the socially awkward, involuntarily celibate white knights, and loser provider types.
Didn't TL ban you for obsessively calling me a white knight loser in many previous posts? Please find a different hobby.
Something being creepy is subjective, but that doesn't make it not a valid argument. If a person you are trying to seduce finds one of your actions creepy then you probably did something wrong, I hope you don't confront them to claim that it's all in their heads and they're being illogical.
And there is a difference between dating for temporary fun and looking for a partner, which isn't always explicitly mentioned in this thread, but which is quite relevant. If you tell them to approach it like a 'game', with build orders, then I wouldn't call that appropriate advice since a potential girlfriend probably isn't too happy about being objectified this way. I always think some of the pick-up strains you're fond of would only work on women I don't want to date (or at least, if it did work they would hopefully be upset when they found out) and I suspect that must be true for many more people (but who knows).
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My only distinction has been that while these tried-and-true phrases might make a woman interested in you, they will not make up for the deficiencies of character which generally lurk under the surface of people who are so terribly awkward that they require such phrases.
You just found the probably two biggest "different" approaches when it comes to dating advice.
a) "Fake it till you make it" - in a nutshell meaning that you should learn a couple of phrases, learn some basic "logical" approaches and get experience.
b) Find (usually non-dating related) ways to improve your character, build self-confidence around women, a happy life for yourself and the dating stuff will solve itself with that new experience.
The idea behind both is the same, specifically for someone who is the "terribly socially awkward" type: If you suck at social skills you need to do things you haven't done before, you have to build new experiences and eventually those new experiences will gift you a new view on things that results in confidence. That's why "just be confident" doesn't work since it gives no starting point at all. "Being good at seducing women" is just a social skill like any other.
If you learn certain phrases with the intent that they will do the trick for you in the long run to make you a more attractive person, then you're not understanding the concept behind it. Think of them as training wheels to gather experience you otherwise would have been unable to make because you had no clue where to start in the first place. That's where all those small tricks are golden.
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On May 28 2013 03:06 xicoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 03:00 Recognizable wrote:
So, I was studying for my exam in the school's library and this girl I've randomly talked to once came to me and we started to talk. Anyway, I asked for her phone number and she gave it to me. However, I have this idea that she might have a boyfriend, because I've seen her with a guy. Just ask her out and see what she says? If she has a boyfriend and aproaches you like this, their relationship is problably already over despite being together (in case she has a bf), just ask her out what is wrong with that.
Last night we texted with each other till 2 AM altough she had to be up early for school. If that's not a signal that she likes me I don't know what is.
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On May 28 2013 22:29 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 03:06 xicoo wrote:On May 28 2013 03:00 Recognizable wrote:
So, I was studying for my exam in the school's library and this girl I've randomly talked to once came to me and we started to talk. Anyway, I asked for her phone number and she gave it to me. However, I have this idea that she might have a boyfriend, because I've seen her with a guy. Just ask her out and see what she says? If she has a boyfriend and aproaches you like this, their relationship is problably already over despite being together (in case she has a bf), just ask her out what is wrong with that. Last night we texted with each other till 2 AM altough she had to be up early for school. If that's not a signal that she likes me I don't know what is.
Yeah, fuck. Let me take my words back.
We were talking about movies and I went like: "Hey, let's see that one together."
Her: "Yeah! Sounds like fun"
Her: "But I'll have to ask my boyfriend"
Motherfu.......
I kind of still want to go, she's way too cool :/
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United States43035 Posts
As a rule people follow patterns. If she cheats on her boyfriend now she'll cheat on you later. I mean sure, maybe you're so unique and special that you'll change her and break the pattern and that explains why she did something so against her nature in the first place. But you're not.
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Hihi TL!
So, I'm still not sold on the whole "Asking to strangers on the Internet about personal stuff" but TL is full of fine gentlemen so I'm gonna give it a try 
Here's the story: a while back (like last October / November, can't quite remember) I met this girl at a friend's party. We start to talk a bit and to flirt, albeit very lightly but I still felt there was some potential. Night unfortunately ends there and nothing happens. I kinda forget about her, I think I learn that she is going to the Netherlands to finish her studies.
Fast forward to two weeks ago, same friend, same party, the girl is back to France for the weekend. This time, things are a bit more serious, a lot more contact between us, kisses, etc. Problem is, at the end of the evening we were both very very drunk and when we woke up in the morning, she didn't seem to remember everything (or she was faking it, no idea...).
Two more problems: she is going back to the Netherlands the following day for 2 more months and apparently, she has a boyfriend there (or maybe that's not that important, I assume their relationship is going to end as soon as she leaves definitely).
It's now been two weeks where I haven't done anything but I've been thinking about it a bit two much for my liking. Doesn't seem like a very complicated situation to handle but I guess my judgement is clouded^^.
So, what should be my next move ?
- Wait for her to come back and to meet her again, and see where it goes?
- Get her phone and call her? Not too sure about that, I'm definitely not your typical awkward nerd but I'm still rather shy and if she is busy or high, it's going to be terrible...
- Get her email and send her something maybe? (and no, I don"t have Facebook or any of that crap).
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On May 29 2013 03:20 KwarK wrote:
As a rule people follow patterns. If she cheats on her boyfriend now she'll cheat on you later. I mean sure, maybe you're so unique and special that you'll change her and break the pattern and that explains why she did something so against her nature in the first place. But you're not.
There is no other person with the same genetic code as mine so I am special fuck you!
No, you are right. I'm sad
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On May 29 2013 03:20 KwarK wrote:
As a rule people follow patterns. If she cheats on her boyfriend now she'll cheat on you later. I mean sure, maybe you're so unique and special that you'll change her and break the pattern and that explains why she did something so against her nature in the first place. But you're not.
She didnt cheat on her boyfriend yet, if she likes another guy ofc she will cheat, the right thing would be to break up before getting another dude, but girls don´t like to be alone and then cheatting happens..
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Netherlands6187 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:30 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 03:20 KwarK wrote:
As a rule people follow patterns. If she cheats on her boyfriend now she'll cheat on you later. I mean sure, maybe you're so unique and special that you'll change her and break the pattern and that explains why she did something so against her nature in the first place. But you're not. There is no other person with the same genetic code as mine so I am special fuck you! No, you are right. I'm sad
I feel really bad about it, but you made me laugh! I'm sorry though, I guess girls can be like that sometimes, keeping their options open even when they shouldn't have options. Guys do it too, so I don't know why I am saying that, I think it is bedtime.
Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that at least you now know she does have a boyfriend and that she is interested in you, so you may stand a future chance. If not you can always move on, as hard as it may be. Good luck, keep us updated with how it goes!
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I like makig people laugh so don't apologize Frankly, once the absurdity of the situation hit me I laughed as well.
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EPT
