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Frieder
Italy231 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:48 giuocob wrote: America has been the site of many, many scientific and academic discoveries in its history, far more than any other country. no. Add.: America is no country. User was warned for this post | ||
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yeeyeeyee
2 Posts
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BlackFlag
499 Posts
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fant0m
964 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:45 paralleluniverse wrote: I'm not from America, but I've heard a lot about how much the American public school system sucks, both from Americans and others. However, this has always struck me as paradoxical, because America has the best universities in the world -- by far. Nearly all of the top ranked universities are American. No other country is even *remotely* close. How is it possible for America to, allegedly, have such horribly bad and ineffective schools, while having the best universities in the world? To add to this, countries like Singapore, China, Korea, and most Asian countries, are generally consider to have the best schools in the world, with the highest level of school achievements measured by standardized language, math, and science scores, yet none of these countries have a university worth a damn, I think none these even have a university ranked in the top 20. Anyone want to shred some light on this seeming paradox? University rankings are done in the US. I wouldn't put too much stock in "international" university rankings. Also American universities actively recruit a LOT of foreign talent/students, especially at the graduate level, which is what really matters. Don't forget the "snowball" effect. Talent will go where other talent already is. And future prestige winners will go where the current prestige already is. | ||
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TS-Rupbar
Sweden1089 Posts
I guess that apart from the very top, schools in developed countries are kind of the same no matter the system. Also, I don't pay anything at all to attend my university in Sweden. Only living expenses. EDIT: I think people pay too much attention to "prestige". Also, I don't think that you learn significantly better by cramming shit into your head, which is what matters on standardized test scores. For example, I've learned English mostly by surfing TL, listening to music and reading books in English. Still, I was a lot better at English than many other students who crammed. Then I can only think of all the international people I've meet. They don't seem any better than me at the things we specialize in because they went to a more prestigious high school or university before they came to my class. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On September 24 2011 16:59 Kaitlin wrote: Universities have to compete against each other for students. Public high schools and below don't. That is all. At the top, it's absolutely the other way around for university. | ||
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gullberg
Sweden1301 Posts
On September 24 2011 18:38 TS-Rupbar wrote: I spent a semester at University of Vermont, UVM, an Ivy League public school. It wasn't better than my public university in Sweden... Maybe the teachers were a bit better, but that's it. Not the facilities etc. My university in Sweden, Linnaeus University in Växjö, is not considered a prestigious university at all apart from maybe the school of economics. I'm in the humanities. I guess that apart from the very top, schools in developed countries are kind of the same no matter the system. Also, I don't pay anything at all to attend my university in Sweden. Only living expenses. What there's a uni in Växjö? Didn't know :O | ||
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Detwiler
United States239 Posts
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
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Frieder
Italy231 Posts
On September 24 2011 17:07 Frieder wrote: no. Add.: America is no country. User was warned for this post I was wanred, because I say the truth? America is no country, this is a fact. Also the statement "America has been the site of many, many scientific and academic discoveries in its history, far more than any other country." is not true. a) America is no country. b) Propably with "America" the US were ment. But nevertheless this statement is false, he didn't bring any arguments. | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
1. school level is pretty bad. 2. universities select a lot; but the level is still not that high. 3. Actually level is high at research level, and post graduate/PhD. when you are post graduate, you are in the top students. + The US takes students from all around the world (the brain drain), and therefore benefits from other good educational systems, in Europe and Asia. 4. US universities have a lot of money. But that also means that the fee is high (usually between 20 000 dollars and 30 000 dollars a year.) In comparison, UK is around 6000/10 000; and France about 500 euros. In other words, the US system remains a privilege of the rich. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
University rankings are done in the US. I wouldn't put too much stock in "international" university rankings. Also American universities actively recruit a LOT of foreign talent/students, especially at the graduate level, which is what really matters. Don't forget the "snowball" effect. Talent will go where other talent already is. And future prestige winners will go where the current prestige already is. *sigh* Don't forget that saying something plausible with no proof does not mean the plausibility actually is proof. University rankings, wherever they are done, at the highest level, are not biased in favor of one country or another. European universities in particular have the prestige, the money, and the powerful alumni to fend for themselves against scurrilous rankings. Don't forget as well that you contradict yourself, if most of the best the talent is here, if it causes a snowball effect bringing more talent in, then why would it be plausible to think the ratings are wrong? I was wanred, because I say the truth? America is no country, this is a fact. Also the statement "America has been the site of many, many scientific and academic discoveries in its history, far more than any other country." is not true. a) America is no country. b) Propably with "America" the US were ment. But nevertheless this statement is false, he didn't bring any arguments. Despite what people on the internet may tell you, "America" is a perfectly acceptable way to refer to the "United States of America." Also talking about individual countries making scientific discoveries in this day and age is absurd. It hasn't been like that for over 100 years. Except when it comes to discoveries made through military research and development and even then countries in the West have largely cooperated, for 70 years. | ||
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Truedot
444 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:45 paralleluniverse wrote: I'm not from America, but I've heard a lot about how much the American public school system sucks, both from Americans and others. However, this has always struck me as paradoxical, because America has the best universities in the world -- by far. Nearly all of the top ranked universities are American. No other country is even *remotely* close. How is it possible for America to, allegedly, have such horribly bad and ineffective schools, while having the best universities in the world? To add to this, countries like Singapore, China, Korea, and most Asian countries, are generally consider to have the best schools in the world, with the highest level of school achievements measured by standardized language, math, and science scores, yet none of these countries have a university worth a damn, I think none these even have a university ranked in the top 20. Anyone want to shred some light on this seeming paradox? "america", Actually called "THE UNITED STATES of america", since america includes north and south, and since they are collectively called "The Americas", is 26th in math worldwide. find the movie "waiting for superman". all your questions on "united states" education will be answered. | ||
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kakaman
United States1576 Posts
On September 24 2011 18:38 TS-Rupbar wrote: I spent a semester at University of Vermont, UVM, an Ivy League public school. It wasn't better than my public university in Sweden... Maybe the teachers were a bit better, but that's it. Not the facilities etc. My university in Sweden, Linnaeus University in Växjö, is not considered a prestigious university at all apart from maybe the school of economics. I'm in the humanities. I guess that apart from the very top, schools in developed countries are kind of the same no matter the system. Also, I don't pay anything at all to attend my university in Sweden. Only living expenses. EDIT: I think people pay too much attention to "prestige". Also, I don't think that you learn significantly better by cramming shit into your head, which is what matters on standardized test scores. For example, I've learned English mostly by surfing TL, listening to music and reading books in English. Still, I was a lot better at English than many other students who crammed. Then I can only think of all the international people I've meet. They don't seem any better than me at the things we specialize in because they went to a more prestigious high school or university before they came to my class. LOL get out of here. University of Vermont is known as a top party school, definitely not Ivy League. As many have said, America is comprised of the best top tier education, but pretty lackluster education from the middle down. One thing I do think helps overall personal development from the American system is how you can enter college undeclared and really discover what your passions are, to get the most out of your education. Compare that to the British system, where you declare what you study even before you enter university. I think this type of freedom breeds ingenuity, which in turn helps our country develop new companies/technologies. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On September 24 2011 23:54 kakaman wrote: LOL get out of here. University of Vermont is known as a top party school, definitely not Ivy League. As many have said, America is comprised of the best top tier education, but pretty lackluster education from the middle down. One thing I do think helps overall personal development from the American system is how you can enter college undeclared and really discover what your passions are, to get the most out of your education. Compare that to the British system, where you declare what you study even before you enter university. I think this type of freedom breeds ingenuity, which in turn helps our country develop new companies/technologies. Do some research before you make posts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy | ||
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kakaman
United States1576 Posts
On September 24 2011 23:58 Amber[LighT] wrote: Do some research before you make posts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy Just because they are known as a "Public Ivy" doesn't mean these schools are actually good. Also, that list was made in 1985, things have changed since then. Here's a more recent list: Here’s the complete list of Princeton Review’s top party schools for 2012: 1. Ohio University, Athens, Ohio 2. University of Georgia, Athens, Ga. 3. University of Mississippi, Oxford, Miss. 4. University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa 5. University of California Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara, Calif. 6. West Virginia University, Morgantown, W. Va. 7. Penn State University, University Park, Pa. 8. Florida State University, Tallahassee, Fla. 9. University of Florida, Gainesville, Fla. 10. University of Texas, Austin, Texas 11. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 12. Syracuse University, Syracuse, N.Y. 13. Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, La. 14. University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, Wis. 15. DePauw University, Greencastle, Ind. 16. Indiana University, Bloomington, Ind. 17. Arizona State University, Tempe, Ariz. 18. University of Maryland, College Park, Md. 19. University of Vermont, Burlington, Vt. 20. University of South Carolina, Columbia, S.C. | ||
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RosaParksStoleMySeat
Japan926 Posts
American universities are great because they are largely untouched by the public. By that I mean we do not have legislation on what we should teach in them, how it should be taught, or in what language it should be taught--American university professors choose their own reading material, teach how they want, and say what they want in class. They teach knowing that there is no standardized test for students to pass (except in rare cases like pre-med courses), and they can therefore experiment more with less conventional teaching techniques. American junior high and high school teachers, however, are handcuffed in the classroom. No Child Left Behind (more like No Child Left Untested/No Child Left Educated) is a perfect example as to why; teachers have been forced to teach the material for the test. How do you teach for the test? You teach for the test by explaining the material precisely as it is. You don't ask students to engage in any critical thinking; you cover your ass. Teachers, in fear for their jobs, cannot use modern pedagogical approaches now. They default back into traditional methodologies because that makes them unaccountable for student failure. Ironically, this leads to actually poorer results. Students are thought of as tabula rasas--blank slates--and teachers banks of knowledge to be passed onto them. The problem with this methodology is American society is not nearly competitive enough to get students to study enough to actually learn something from this. It works in Japan and Korea because economic success in these countries depends entirely on your entrance to a top rate university, which depends entirely on your ability to retain a large amount of what you learned in class. Actual application? Psh. Never thought of. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On September 25 2011 00:07 kakaman wrote: Just because they are known as a "Public Ivy" doesn't mean these schools are actually good. Also, that list was made in 1985, things have changed since then. Here's a more recent list: Here’s the complete list of Princeton Review’s top party schools for 2012: 1. Ohio University, Athens, Ohio 2. University of Georgia, Athens, Ga. 3. University of Mississippi, Oxford, Miss. 4. University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa 5. University of California Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara, Calif. 6. West Virginia University, Morgantown, W. Va. 7. Penn State University, University Park, Pa. 8. Florida State University, Tallahassee, Fla. 9. University of Florida, Gainesville, Fla. 10. University of Texas, Austin, Texas 11. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 12. Syracuse University, Syracuse, N.Y. 13. Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, La. 14. University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, Wis. 15. DePauw University, Greencastle, Ind. 16. Indiana University, Bloomington, Ind. 17. Arizona State University, Tempe, Ariz. 18. University of Maryland, College Park, Md. 19. University of Vermont, Burlington, Vt. 20. University of South Carolina, Columbia, S.C. Moll, who earned his Master of Divinity degree from Yale University in 1959,[3] was an admissions officer at Yale, and the director of admissions at Bowdoin College, University of California, Santa Cruz, and Vassar College.[3][4][5] He traveled the nation examining higher education and in particular, identified eight public institutions (the same as the number of Ivy League members) which he thought had the look and feel of an Ivy League university. In addition to academic excellence, other factors considered by Moll include visual appearance, age, and school traditions as well as certain other Ivy League characteristics. You have an incredible inability to read. If Harvard became a listed party school would you think they don't deserve to be a good school anymore as well? | ||
micronesia
United States24690 Posts
On September 24 2011 23:48 Truedot wrote: find the movie "waiting for superman". all your questions on "united states" education will be answered. I wish people would stop saying stuff like this in this thread. I already explained earlier that Waiting for Superman does a poor job of indicating the actual problems with public education in the US, and is highly biased. | ||
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
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