^^@wherebugsgo that's why i said it would have been best to ignore the protesters if the goal was to disperse them away from protesting, ever sense they pepper spayed women who were herded into a corner and that hit the Internet the protest grew, same thing happens when more video hits the Internet.
Flea Party, pure and simple. Think of the Tea Party, then opposite of what they believe, and there you go. Rapes, drug use, and anti-Semitism, and that is what you have, the debris of humanity.
Well we can tell he gets his information from cable tv who painted the tea party as a bunch of bigots even though that's just a small segment a vocal segment but small, just swap networks and now you have tea party finding the most horrendous people and putting them on camera.
On October 30 2011 15:53 semantics wrote: ^^@wherebugsgo that's why i said it would have been best to ignore the protesters if the goal was to disperse them away from protesting, ever sense they pepper spayed women who were herded into a corner and that hit the Internet the protest grew, same thing happens when more video hits the Internet.
Flea Party, pure and simple. Think of the Tea Party, then opposite of what they believe, and there you go. Rapes, drug use, and anti-Semitism, and that is what you have, the debris of humanity.
Well we can tell he gets his information from cable tv who painted the tea party as a bunch of bigots even though that's just a small segment a vocal segment but small, just swap networks and now you have tea party finding the most horrendous people and putting them on camera.
Probably some sort of fox news spam bot, crawling the web for OWS threads to poop in. Actually note how many detractors in this thread are single digit post counts, looks like this thread is among other things helping spread esports and team liquid to all new people.
On October 30 2011 15:53 semantics wrote: ^^@wherebugsgo that's why i said it would have been best to ignore the protesters if the goal was to disperse them away from protesting, ever sense they pepper spayed women who were herded into a corner and that hit the Internet the protest grew, same thing happens when more video hits the Internet.
Flea Party, pure and simple. Think of the Tea Party, then opposite of what they believe, and there you go. Rapes, drug use, and anti-Semitism, and that is what you have, the debris of humanity.
Well we can tell he gets his information from cable tv who painted the tea party as a bunch of bigots even though that's just a small segment a vocal segment but small, just swap networks and now you have tea party finding the most horrendous people and putting them on camera.
Yup, some of us actually discussed that tonight.
We think that if the police were smart about it they would've just simply not teargassed the protesters; most of them would've just become bored and gone home.
Instead, the numbers grew from something like 200 to 300 protesters to upwards of 600-700. Now the police are extra cautious, and for the most part, it's their own fault. The fact that they used force against the group gave the protesters more legitimacy and reason to protest. Some of tonight's speeches were made about police brutality, and in fact this movement isn't even necessarily about that. It's become more popular because of it, though.
Had the police exercised more restraint in their treatment of the protesters on Tuesday I don't think the movement would have strengthened like it did.
On October 30 2011 15:53 semantics wrote: ^^@wherebugsgo that's why i said it would have been best to ignore the protesters if the goal was to disperse them away from protesting, ever sense they pepper spayed women who were herded into a corner and that hit the Internet the protest grew, same thing happens when more video hits the Internet.
Flea Party, pure and simple. Think of the Tea Party, then opposite of what they believe, and there you go. Rapes, drug use, and anti-Semitism, and that is what you have, the debris of humanity.
Well we can tell he gets his information from cable tv who painted the tea party as a bunch of bigots even though that's just a small segment a vocal segment but small, just swap networks and now you have tea party finding the most horrendous people and putting them on camera.
Yup, some of us actually discussed that tonight.
We think that if the police were smart about it they would've just simply not teargassed the protesters; most of them would've just become bored and gone home.
Instead, the numbers grew from something like 200 to 300 protesters to upwards of 600-700. Now the police are extra cautious, and for the most part, it's their own fault. The fact that they used force against the group gave the protesters more legitimacy and reason to protest. Some of tonight's speeches were made about police brutality, and in fact this movement isn't even necessarily about that. It's become more popular because of it, though.
Had the police exercised more restraint in their treatment of the protesters on Tuesday I don't think the movement would have strengthened like it did.
Maybe the police are deliberately doing it to attract more attention to the movement and help it grow.
On October 27 2011 10:12 HellRoxYa wrote: What is with everyone saying that "the problem" is with the output (ie. that you're spending too much). Sure, that might be true. That doesn't mean there can't be a problem at the other end as well. It's by far the worst rebuttal of raising taxes one can come up with yet it's regurgitated like it's some kind of golden answer. It's a great way to avoid a debate, and to not have to formulate real arguments, but then again, what are you doing in this thread?
Edit: And as far as my personal opinion on these matters go. Taxes are awesome. I love Sweden and the Swedish system. Did I mention we're doing incredibly well? We're doing incredibly well. In pretty much all measureable areas. But you go ahead and cut spending and don't raise taxes. (You probably need to do both, I'd start by throwing the military away)
too many people think of the cops and authority as "corrupt and power hungry" the VAST majority of the time this is completely incorrect. there are corrupt and power hungry people, but most of the people that i went to school with and now work with as a police officer simply want to protect people and serve the greater good. as long as the goalless idiots of the occupy wallstreet movement don't break any laws, you can do what you want. as soon as you cross the line into the violent or law breaking category we will take action. plain and simple.
-Clean up your fucking trash. The places are getting kinda messy. -Have those toilets cleaned more than once a day -Don't throw shit at police or they will act back (People throwing even empty water bottle like wtf comon) -Remember not every single police officer hates you so don't hate them. -Oragnize a list of 'demands' not just saying 'stop corp. greed' etc
On October 30 2011 18:06 FryktSkyene wrote: I went to one today just to obvserve.
To anyone participating in OWS, please.
-Clean up your fucking trash. The places are getting kinda messy. -Have those toilets cleaned more than once a day -Don't throw shit at police or they will act back (People throwing even empty water bottle like wtf comon) -Remember not every single police officer hates you so don't hate them. -Oragnize a list of 'demands' not just saying 'stop corp. greed' etc
And GL ^_^
The fact that a movement like that lacks discipline is kind of logical. Seriously, that's not a big deal. If they last, they will eventually learn to organize spontaneously.
I am not sure that they should organize a list of demand. I would say that paradoxically they probably better not, since that would be the end of the movement's radicalism.
What this movement is achieving (or can achieve) is to change people's mind about the current state of global capitalism, not to get this or that demand to politicians. They are "repolitizating" what is becoming a post-politic society, to use the words of someone I really like. And they are doing it very well.
That's a much bigger and much more important task.
Very strange that the US seems to be the only place on the planet where this holds true. In Europe states like France only have the central government and not even states and it seems to work out for them. I believe this is an untrue and dogmatic statement spread by those who profit from privatizing the job the government does aka corporate America. Because the state does not look for profit privatizing is an enormous opportunity for corporations to take over the functions of the state and charge you way more. In my humble opinion things like the water supply, police force etc. are just fine in the hand of the state. Because those are goods and services every citizen needs so funding them via taxes is fine because all pay and all need them. (And there is no variety with water/electricity/health care [all deserve and want the best health care in case you need it] while there is plenty when it comes to food, or cars, or computers and in this case corporations can cater to the different needs of the people)
anyway it is funny that europe is in crisis because of the failures of government finances but it all works fine i guess... well as long as you think that brussels and paris will be very happy... berlin maybe not so much
First of all the USA is in a much bigger crisis on the debt area, the "real" debt it has is much higher than the "official non-real debt".
But now about Europe, it has little to do with the government finances. Greece was weak, but this situation was made 100x worse by banks and some evil (greek) people who have a lot of money.
Basically, a bunch of banks and "investors" bought a ton of greek bonds, speculated against them which made interest on the bonds go up and then they started cashing in. This happened for quite a while until greece couldn't pay anymore, and then the crisis started. Every euro that goes to greece goes directly to those banks and investors. Did you hear about the 200bn (bn? 200.000 million, not sure if this is bn) that is owned by those greek investors and is stored in swiss banks?
So again we are paying money to banks and investors, who did something they knew would fail, and they knew we would bail them out. Just like 2008! Starting to see a pattern? This is the behavior that is normal, and this is what needs to stop. The entire financial/political/monetary system needs to be reformed. No more speculation. No more buying politicians. No more brainwashing people with commercials and false promises and no more keeping them stupid. No more stock markets. No more interest. No more corporations being evil and destroying the planet and people. No more debt slavery.
That might sound radical, but it's exactly what we need.
" The anarchists in the circle made what seemed, at the time, an insanely ambitious proposal. Why not let them operate exactly like this committee: by consensus." ... According to conventional wisdom this shouldn’t be possible, but it is happening — in much the same way that other inexplicable phenomena like love, revolution, or life itself (from the perspective of, say, particle physics) happen. ... that participants know they can instantly stop a deliberation dead in its tracks[...]means they rarely do it. It also means that a compromise on minor points becomes easier; the process toward creative synthesis is really the essence of the thing. In the end, it matters less how a final decision is reached...provided everyone was able to play a part in helping to shape and reshape it.
" The anarchists in the circle made what seemed, at the time, an insanely ambitious proposal. Why not let them operate exactly like this committee: by consensus." ... According to conventional wisdom this shouldn’t be possible, but it is happening — in much the same way that other inexplicable phenomena like love, revolution, or life itself (from the perspective of, say, particle physics) happen. ... that participants know they can instantly stop a deliberation dead in its tracks[...]means they rarely do it. It also means that a compromise on minor points becomes easier; the process toward creative synthesis is really the essence of the thing. In the end, it matters less how a final decision is reached...provided everyone was able to play a part in helping to shape and reshape it.
IS this whole website a troll?
What's so stupid about it? Ok, with people like the republican party it's impossible, they don't even want to accept proposals who are 100% on their line, just because it wasn't theirs. But with real people, who are really trying to solve problems? Why not? In a decentralized way bottom-up it's very interesting.
" The anarchists in the circle made what seemed, at the time, an insanely ambitious proposal. Why not let them operate exactly like this committee: by consensus." ... According to conventional wisdom this shouldn’t be possible, but it is happening — in much the same way that other inexplicable phenomena like love, revolution, or life itself (from the perspective of, say, particle physics) happen. ... that participants know they can instantly stop a deliberation dead in its tracks[...]means they rarely do it. It also means that a compromise on minor points becomes easier; the process toward creative synthesis is really the essence of the thing. In the end, it matters less how a final decision is reached...provided everyone was able to play a part in helping to shape and reshape it.
IS this whole website a troll?
Seems heavily influenced by continental philosophy; the second paragrapher is very Lacan / Badiou like and the creative synthesis sounds very Deleuzian. I find what they say very interesting.
A few times during his presidency, Obama has quoted FDR: "make me do it", or "go out and make me do it". Wonder if his Wall Street puppetmasters will actually let him. I find it hard to believe that a President that spies on left wing peace activist groups will do much of anything besides fill jail cells.
The splintered Left always seems to finally get organized in this country when there is a Democrat in the White House letting them down. Last time it was progressives getting behind Nader after 8 years of Clinton.
Organizing the Left is like trying to gather a last march of the Ents lol.
On October 30 2011 15:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Better job opportunities and wealth distribution would also be nice, particularly as the middle class is essentially getting destroyed while the rich continually get richer.
You guys really have no clue what the hell you are suggesting and what the result will actually be.
wealth redistribution =/= more job opportunities =/= helping middle class.
30 million people in India are added to the middle class every year. Americans will never accept the fact that they aren't worth as much on the global market as they think they do.
EPT
