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Could a Technocracy be Better than Democracy? - Page 28

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lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
September 13 2011 19:27 GMT
#541
On September 14 2011 04:12 tech information wrote:
No Technocracy is anti-New World Order and corporate elite interests. There are not enough resources in the world to sustain such a large population. Only in North America, with 52% of the world's resources and only 15% of the population can a high standard of living be maintained. I suggest you read the article GLOBALONEY FANTASY by Wilton Ivie one of the most respected Technocrats.


According to Wilton

"let us demonstrate that we have the capacity to operate our own area—the North American Continent. Let us first provide freedom from want and fear for North Americans and demonstrate its feasibility within our own area."

Translation: Fuck the world until we know that we are truly happy and perfect.

Since it's impossible to be truly free of desires (want) and fear, this is akin to saying "Fuck the world forever"

Hmm.... Sounds pretty crazy to me. Was he a former pageant contestant who kept saying his dream was world peace?

What's his expertise again...

Oh right! Spiders. If I want to know how to deal with global economies resource management, I ask Spiderman. Oh wait--that's the democrating way of thinking isn't it?

How do technocrats work? Oh right, they say fuck you to people without a PhD on the subject trying to make decisions for them. So Wilton must have gotten a big middle finger when he published this-

"by Wilton Ivie one of the most respected Technocrats." -tech information

Oh right. Hypocrisy. People only need to be experts in the field they're talking about--unless you already like them then they count. Oh wait! Isn't this the problem I've been talking about since I joined this discussion?

Oh that sucks. Sorry dude. I didn't mean for you to prove me right.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
September 13 2011 19:29 GMT
#542
On September 14 2011 04:27 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2011 04:18 tech information wrote:
If Technocracy Technate design is not adopted population to resources will have to balance out through war, famine, and population depletion. That is the New World Order's credit-debit scheme. That will entail social fascism, like it has during the whole of human history. Still think Technocracy is not important?


What if the technate is perhaps a ruse perpertrated by the upper enclaves of the Illuminati order, comrade? Perhaps it in itself is just a ruse in instituting the facist enterprises, by giving us the illusions of two opposition choices that are part of the greater scheme, the ensuing conflict serving as a vanishing mediator to ensure stable transition to the next phase of the plan?

I fear we have been deceived brother. Flee safe house 13.Flee while you still can!. The bee has entered the hive. I repeat the bee has entered the hive.


The Bee has entered the Hive?

[image loading]
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 13 2011 19:30 GMT
#543
"Technocracy is not a Price System in which it uses metrical measurement, not an economical theory of value."

Semantics. A distribution / energy credit scheme invovles a planning authority setting a number value (price) on goods and services.

You can argue that it is somehow different but it is not.

The planning authority sets the number based upon forecasted demand which corresponds to their production schedule in a manner set to avoid shortages.

Planned economies don't work. Even if they use a medium of exchange that is less useful than money.

JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 13 2011 19:33 GMT
#544
On September 14 2011 04:03 tech information wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2011 03:46 lorkac wrote:so people no longer had to take public transportation as much reducing the need to have more expensive trains. They did this by providing more autonomy to the public

Ok ever heard of Peak Oil? You are both completely insane and you are a stooge for Price System corporate interests.
[image loading]


Peak oil is a great example of why price systems work so well. As oil supply fails to meet demand prices rise. This incentivises producers to produce from previously uneconomic wells and develop new technologies for oil extraction. The rise in price also encourages users to become more efficient with their use of oil.

All the while the economy is free to function withough the disruptive effects of supply shortages.
tech information
Profile Joined August 2011
105 Posts
September 13 2011 19:38 GMT
#545
On September 14 2011 04:27 Half wrote:
What if the technate is perhaps a ruse perpertrated by the upper enclaves of the Illuminati order, comrade? Perhaps it in itself is just a ruse in instituting the facist enterprises, by giving us the illusions of two opposition choices that are part of the greater scheme, the ensuing conflict serving as a vanishing mediator to ensure stable transition to the next phase of the plan?


Martial Law conscripts men alone. That is fascism in the service of elite corporate interests. Total Conscription as it has been proposed by Howard Scott conscripts Men, Machines, Materials, and Money, with Service from All and Profits to None. There lies the distinction to remember when chaos sets in on the North American Continent.

[image loading]


"So it has come about that Technocracy, in the full blaze of world publicity, will experience attempted exploitation by those with whom it has, and can have, nothing in common. The politicians and debt merchants of the day will be moved to employ Technocracy as one of the cornerstones of a new political state; they may even go so far that, under the color of Technocracy, an institutional fascism will be introduced as one of the dictatorial prerequisites of the incoming president. This and many other efforts will be made to utilize the work which Technocracy so quietly initiated, but we, ourselves, will consistently maintain the position from which we started--that you cannot continue to do certain things on this Continent; that people and times have changed, and that any decisive moves toward readjustment must be the responsibility of those who control the policies of this country." - Howard Scott's Hotel Pierre Address

[image loading]
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-13 19:40:57
September 13 2011 19:40 GMT
#546
I fear Techinformation may be an enemy agent Lorkac. He proposes we willingly submit to centralized dictatorships in order to resist centralized dictatorships. I am offended that the enemy thinks we are so easy to deceive.

Still. A sleeper agent. There tactics are growing more clever by the day.
Too Busy to Troll!
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 13 2011 20:00 GMT
#547
On September 14 2011 04:38 tech information wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2011 04:27 Half wrote:
What if the technate is perhaps a ruse perpertrated by the upper enclaves of the Illuminati order, comrade? Perhaps it in itself is just a ruse in instituting the facist enterprises, by giving us the illusions of two opposition choices that are part of the greater scheme, the ensuing conflict serving as a vanishing mediator to ensure stable transition to the next phase of the plan?


Martial Law conscripts men alone. That is fascism in the service of elite corporate interests. Total Conscription as it has been proposed by Howard Scott conscripts Men, Machines, Materials, and Money, with Service from All and Profits to None. There lies the distinction to remember when chaos sets in on the North American Continent.

[image loading]


"So it has come about that Technocracy, in the full blaze of world publicity, will experience attempted exploitation by those with whom it has, and can have, nothing in common. The politicians and debt merchants of the day will be moved to employ Technocracy as one of the cornerstones of a new political state; they may even go so far that, under the color of Technocracy, an institutional fascism will be introduced as one of the dictatorial prerequisites of the incoming president. This and many other efforts will be made to utilize the work which Technocracy so quietly initiated, but we, ourselves, will consistently maintain the position from which we started--that you cannot continue to do certain things on this Continent; that people and times have changed, and that any decisive moves toward readjustment must be the responsibility of those who control the policies of this country." - Howard Scott's Hotel Pierre Address

[image loading]


Please explain how such a system would handle ..

The Free Rider Problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem

Tragedy of the Commons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_tragedy_of_the_commons

Shortages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortages

lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
September 13 2011 20:10 GMT
#548
On September 14 2011 04:40 Half wrote:
I fear Techinformation may be an enemy agent Lorkac. He proposes we willingly submit to centralized dictatorships in order to resist centralized dictatorships. I am offended that the enemy thinks we are so easy to deceive.

Still. A sleeper agent. There tactics are growing more clever by the day.


The awesome is too much for me to take! lololololol
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
tech information
Profile Joined August 2011
105 Posts
September 13 2011 20:18 GMT
#549
On September 14 2011 04:40 Half wrote: He proposes we willingly submit to centralized dictatorships in order to resist centralized dictatorships.


Would a Technate be a dictatorship of engineers?

You just love to be brow-beaten don't you. Do you think, with all the installed horsepower we have on this continent, that any individual or group of individuals can dictate the physical operation of that equipment? In other words, you change the laws of mechanics, of physics, of chemistry, at will? Why heavens, wake up... It's the degradation of energy, on this Continent, into use forms and services, and it's those physical laws which dictate, not the individual. Technocracy is proposing a production and distribution of abundance to everyone. On four hours a day, four days a week, for twenty years of service. See if you can match that under your Democrats or Republicans.

How are we ensured of a Technate, and not a dictatorship, if we should have Total Conscription?

Dictatorship in this technological day and age, would still be a decision by opinion, wether it's the opinion of one or a hundred million; what do you do, you just count noses, in the case of the dictatorship it's one nose... In the case of a hundred and forty million it's more noses... Both are stupid. If you change the economic system, to where no individual can acquire economic power, where no individual is permitted the private ownership of public property, but every individual is guaranteed the private ownership of private property. Quite a little difference. Most people wouldn't like that though, because you wouldn't be able to control the production of wheat, or cotton, or coal, or oil, or anything else. That would be public property. In other words you could raise roses if you enjoyed roses, your own books in your home, etc, but you couldn't control the economic processes of this Continent. If there is no private ownership, and there is no political representation, but there is a governance of function, you can't have dictatorship, because for the first time in history, those who would originate must also execute it. Congress, the Senate, never did that in history. They only legislate, and then let the poor sap out here try to operate it.

Still. A sleeper agent. There tactics are growing more clever by the day.


No... They are retarded. Though maybe not as much as you guys. Charlatans and fools are guiding our destiny.

Howard Scott Question and Answer on Technocracy Radio Part 1
Howard Scott Question and Answer on Technocracy Radio Part 2

[image loading]
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
September 13 2011 20:22 GMT
#550
If you change the economic system, to where no individual can acquire economic power, where no individual is permitted the private ownership of public property, but every individual is guaranteed the private ownership of private property.


[image loading]

Comrade!
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
Effay
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States153 Posts
September 13 2011 20:27 GMT
#551
This thread is fucking hilarious
Obsession: The weak minded's name for dedication
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
September 13 2011 20:28 GMT
#552
Comrade!


It's not even that, it's some kind of weird proto-Marxist proto-Capitalist hybrid.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
tech information
Profile Joined August 2011
105 Posts
September 13 2011 20:59 GMT
#553
What is the fundamental difference between a planned social economy and the system you advocate?

Well we had a "planned social economy" under Roosevelt. Now, of course, we are proceeding from the organized planned economy to designed anarchy, under Truman. What do you mean by planned economy. There never was one in this country. Can't have a blueprint for national housing, you've all got to build your own little rathole. Oh you've all got modern, soundproof, air-conditioned houses? You live in them, do you? You can afford them can you? Ah. Not unless your running a racket ...or own a bank. Theres quite a difference, under Technocracy, for the first time in history, the social history of man, the contract of citizenship in this country would guarantee your economic security. So long as you remained a citizen. You have no guarantee today of your economic security whatsoever. You do have the freedom to work, the freedom to pursue it, but you have no guarantee you're going to get anything. Why you even have to buy an insurance policy ...so you're worth more dead than you are alive! Under a Technate there would be no insurance policy, because every citizen under his contract of citizenship would be guaranteed against disease, accidents, old age, or disability. Without exception! Of race, creed, kind or color. And only citizens could live and work in this country. Understand that, under a Technate. Visitors from foreign countries would be the guests of this Continent, but no one would be permitted to live and work here, except citizens. They must be citizens.

How closely are you connected, or associated, with Communism?

In Russia, the only so-called example of a government supposedly operating under Communist principles, they have state banks, savings accounts, bank deposits, the state corporations have stock, the stock is deposited in the state bank, they have bonds, like you buy here, government bonds, in other words it's a Price System, in Russia, exactly as it is here, with one difference. Here it is privately owned, and there it is state-owned. The Russians have collectif farms, the collective farms average 2500 acres each. And each worker on the collective farm has a little plot of ground, little house, little shed, he also, besides working as an employee of the state collective farms, raises a few pigs and chickens and vegetables, and sells over to the private trader. Either to the collective, or in the outside market. Now 2500 acres, with our technological equipment, that's alright for Communist Russia, but for heaven's sake let's get a technological design. Technocracy's agro-technological units are 25 miles by 25 miles. 400000 acres in a unit. What the hell have we got to immitate Russia for? No we're not deprecating the Russians... Communism is sufficiently radical and revolutionary for the whole world. They still have alternatives in Europe. There is no alternative on this Continent. Either you have a technological organisation and a redesign of all production and distribution of all social functioning on this Continent or you have chaos. We of Technocracy consider Communism so far to the right that it's bourgeois. If you're going to have social change on this Continent, don't imitate anyplace else. Let's develop our own. We don't have to borrow from anyplace else on the globe. We've got the ability here, we've got the technological knownledge, we've got the technological equipment. The only thing we lack, is the will to accomplish it. So let's develop a strategy that is as unidirectional for this country and this Continent, as the Russian strategy is for Russia.


[image loading]

Technocracy Radio

[image loading]

PS... keep laughing, just don't say nobody warned you.

JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 13 2011 21:08 GMT
#554
"Do you think, with all the installed horsepower we have on this continent, that any individual or group of individuals can dictate the physical operation of that equipment? In other words, you change the laws of mechanics, of physics, of chemistry, at will? Why heavens, wake up... It's the degradation of energy, on this Continent, into use forms and services, and it's those physical laws which dictate, not the individual. "

WHAT? This makes no sense. Machines can be used in various ways to produce various products.

"Technocracy is proposing a production and distribution of abundance to everyone."

How? Through the magic power of mad science?

"If you change the economic system, to where no individual can acquire economic power, where no individual is permitted the private ownership of public property, but every individual is guaranteed the private ownership of private property. Quite a little difference. Most people wouldn't like that though, because you wouldn't be able to control the production of wheat, or cotton, or coal, or oil, or anything else. That would be public property. In other words you could raise roses if you enjoyed roses, your own books in your home, etc"

Oh great, we'll have farmers growing roses instead of food. Great plan bro. Should work as well as other attempts at confiscation of private property into the hands of government expers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward
tech information
Profile Joined August 2011
105 Posts
September 13 2011 21:11 GMT
#555
you must be running a racket or own a bank
tech information
Profile Joined August 2011
105 Posts
September 13 2011 21:15 GMT
#556
in any case you are a Price System flunky and a stooge for corporate interests. Not to mention a retard.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 13 2011 21:19 GMT
#557
"Now 2500 acres, with our technological equipment, that's alright for Communist Russia, but for heaven's sake let's get a technological design. Technocracy's agro-technological units are 25 miles by 25 miles. 400000 acres in a unit."

Why is this better? Ever hear of diseconomies of scale?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseconomy_of_scale

lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
September 13 2011 21:20 GMT
#558
On September 14 2011 05:59 tech information wrote:
What is the fundamental difference between a planned social economy and the system you advocate?

Well we had a "planned social economy" under Roosevelt. Now, of course, we are proceeding from the organized planned economy to designed anarchy, under Truman. What do you mean by planned economy. There never was one in this country. Can't have a blueprint for national housing, you've all got to build your own little rathole. Oh you've all got modern, soundproof, air-conditioned houses? You live in them, do you? You can afford them can you? Ah. Not unless your running a racket ...or own a bank. Theres quite a difference, under Technocracy, for the first time in history, the social history of man, the contract of citizenship in this country would guarantee your economic security. So long as you remained a citizen. You have no guarantee today of your economic security whatsoever. You do have the freedom to work, the freedom to pursue it, but you have no guarantee you're going to get anything. Why you even have to buy an insurance policy ...so you're worth more dead than you are alive! Under a Technate there would be no insurance policy, because every citizen under his contract of citizenship would be guaranteed against disease, accidents, old age, or disability. Without exception! Of race, creed, kind or color. And only citizens could live and work in this country. Understand that, under a Technate. Visitors from foreign countries would be the guests of this Continent, but no one would be permitted to live and work here, except citizens. They must be citizens.

How closely are you connected, or associated, with Communism?

In Russia, the only so-called example of a government supposedly operating under Communist principles, they have state banks, savings accounts, bank deposits, the state corporations have stock, the stock is deposited in the state bank, they have bonds, like you buy here, government bonds, in other words it's a Price System, in Russia, exactly as it is here, with one difference. Here it is privately owned, and there it is state-owned. The Russians have collectif farms, the collective farms average 2500 acres each. And each worker on the collective farm has a little plot of ground, little house, little shed, he also, besides working as an employee of the state collective farms, raises a few pigs and chickens and vegetables, and sells over to the private trader. Either to the collective, or in the outside market. Now 2500 acres, with our technological equipment, that's alright for Communist Russia, but for heaven's sake let's get a technological design. Technocracy's agro-technological units are 25 miles by 25 miles. 400000 acres in a unit. What the hell have we got to immitate Russia for? No we're not deprecating the Russians... Communism is sufficiently radical and revolutionary for the whole world. They still have alternatives in Europe. There is no alternative on this Continent. Either you have a technological organisation and a redesign of all production and distribution of all social functioning on this Continent or you have chaos. We of Technocracy consider Communism so far to the right that it's bourgeois. If you're going to have social change on this Continent, don't imitate anyplace else. Let's develop our own. We don't have to borrow from anyplace else on the globe. We've got the ability here, we've got the technological knownledge, we've got the technological equipment. The only thing we lack, is the will to accomplish it. So let's develop a strategy that is as unidirectional for this country and this Continent, as the Russian strategy is for Russia.


[image loading]

Technocracy Radio

[image loading]

PS... keep laughing, just don't say nobody warned you.



This is the TLDR version.

Technocracy is not Socialistic because their specific reforms are not exactly the same as other socialist nations.

You see, Technocracy has the government give people property while Price Systems have banks give people property. The two are very different because banks are evil and government is good. Government will not have greedy people in it because only banks gave greedy people in it. What's the worse that could happen?

It's also not like communism because in communism they called their paper money while we technocrats call their paper certificates. Those are very different because certificates have howard's signature in it which looks cool and you can share it with your grand kids. Although you can't buy a 747 with it, because where would you park it?

Check.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 13 2011 21:24 GMT
#559
On September 14 2011 06:15 tech information wrote:
in any case you are a Price System flunky and a stooge for corporate interests. Not to mention a retard.


U mad bro?

P.S. I like your cake. I bet that was an awsome party. Lots of really attractive girls showed up no doubt.
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
September 13 2011 21:33 GMT
#560
On September 14 2011 06:15 tech information wrote:
in any case you are a Price System flunky and a stooge for corporate interests. Not to mention a retard.


Yes. People who finds flaws in your system are obviously the enemy. You should round them up and make sure they never have any influence on others. Only smart people are allowed power, not people you consider a retard. How about you set up a camp where you can put everyone that is not to your liking, and then keep them there in order for them to not influence the populace with their Price System opinions. That would ensure the safety of the fatherland!

[image loading]
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
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