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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! |
On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
isnt it strange to say ''u cant kill!!''
so someone kills and then he gets killed for killing
U get the idea?
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On July 24 2011 01:32 MaGic~PhiL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
isnt it strange to say ''u cant kill!!'' so someone kills and then he gets killed for killing U get the idea?
No stranger than saying, "You can't kidnap people and hold them against their will in your basement." Which is basically what jail is.
I'm generally against capital punishment because the possibility of mistakes (and that it's so expensive in the US). But I think it should be reserved for cases where there is absolutely no question the guy was a cold-blooded murdering asshole. Such people are not fit for society.
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On July 24 2011 00:23 Nausea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:19 MasterFischer wrote:On July 24 2011 00:09 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote:On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. do you seriously think the fear of death will stop sick minds to make their massacres? Perhaps not for some, but for the majority, yes, yes it will. I've read several accounts of serial killers and alike, who was afraid of dying, on deathrow, they really was fucking piss scared, just like they deserved to be. And did that stop them? no as you just said: "serial killers".. And this guy killing 90+ people isn't some, and it's this guy we're discussing.
As far as I know, there's no figures to prove that death penalty decreases the crime rate. If you search for info about it, you might even find the opposite statistical answer, proving it increases crime rate. But anyway those statistics are so small that's it's probably worth nothing trying to correlate the 2 things. It's (I think) just a political/philosophical decision based on each country's history, culture, religion and so on, but doesn't help reducing criminality (countries with the highest quality of life aren't those where death penalty is enforced - not that it proves much either). Still, a guy who just goes nuts most often probably doesn't care if there is or there isn't a death penalty at the end of the road (McVeigh knew and didn't care, the Virginia Tech guy was kind enough to take care of himself, and so on and so on.
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On July 24 2011 01:30 ZeGzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
Try to figure out the motives, whether or not he was alone, then have him executed.
As I understand it, Norway's justice system will allow this fucking idiot to be a free man again in 20 some years? So we should fall to his level and kill him? Why? It wont change anything.
One less killer to put into psychiatric care (trust me, the high security patients cost a shit load of tax money). It's not like he's ever going to contribute to the society in a useful manner after this.
It's pretty much this situation:
- Costing tax money
- Him being alive, allowing him to have a (however slight) chance to harm somebody else in his life.
vs
- Nothing
He's a mass murderer, stop being so damn sensitive.
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On July 23 2011 17:20 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 17:05 Provocateur wrote:
My deepest sympathies to the Norwegian people, I still can't understand that a single man can cause such a disaster. I feel gutted thinking about what happened in Utøya, they were just kids! Us swedes must show solidarity with our neighbours and provide any help that we can. I think Jens Stoltenberg's official statements have been brilliant, stating that this man cannot be victorious in changing the Norwegian society with fear and violence. He is allready victorious. Unfortunatly his identity was revealed, which ensures him a place in history. The police and "special forces" should have kept his name a secret and deleted all traces of his excistance. Then they should have thrown him in the deepest and darkest hole and kept him there until he would perish.
No, no, no. The victims and everyone affected by the disaster would probably not be able to gain any closure. If your son had been gunned down along with 90 other people, and you would never know who did it or why, you probably wouldnt have been able to move on.
No, he would win if we let this stop us any way. The only change we should make is to become more open, more freedom and more multicultural. But nobody really wins in these things. Lifes are lost and people suffer. The only winner is the one selling caskets.
My deepest condolances to everyone affected by this tragedy. I was fortunate to not have anyone dear to me hurt, but many many many people were not so lucky. I hope we can overcome and rise above.
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Maybe those people could work for society in some resocialice projects and speak to those who may start actions like this to prevent them from doing so.
Just one idea how they could help the society after doing something like this.
Argh damn im arguing again gonna closse TL now or i am one of the reasons this will go on forever 
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On July 24 2011 01:38 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:30 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
Try to figure out the motives, whether or not he was alone, then have him executed.
As I understand it, Norway's justice system will allow this fucking idiot to be a free man again in 20 some years? So we should fall to his level and kill him? Why? It wont change anything. One less killer to put into psychiatric care (trust me, the high security patients cost a shit load of tax money). It's not like he's ever going to contribute to the society in a useful manner after this. It's pretty much this situation: - Costing tax money - Him being alive, allowing him to have a (however slight) chance to harm somebody else in his life. vs - Nothing He's a mass murderer, stop being so damn sensitive.
We have had this discussion, your point is wrong. The facts tell another story as stated few pages before this and please, stop this discussion. Really. This thread is not about death sentence.
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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect!
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Fucking idiots everywhere...
The weird thing is that even with the current level of security checks and anti terrorist measures things like this still happen...
what can you do...
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On July 24 2011 01:36 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:32 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
isnt it strange to say ''u cant kill!!'' so someone kills and then he gets killed for killing U get the idea? No stranger than saying, "You can't kidnap people and hold them against their will in your basement." Which is basically what jail is. I'm generally against capital punishment because the possibility of mistakes (and that it's so expensive in the US). But I think it should be reserved for cases where there is absolutely no question the guy was a cold-blooded murdering asshole. Such people are not fit for society.
Exactly my point. If there's even the slightest chance of someone being innocent, give them a long prison sentence instead. But for total psychopaths like this guy, that are guilty beyond any doubt, just save the society some money and put him to sleep. He's never going to be able to function in our world, so it's either prison (or psychiatric care) for life, or death penalty.
One costs money, the other doesn't. One takes up a slot in the prison/psychiatric care system that could be used for someone who is less fucked up, who actually has a chance of ever function in the society, the other doesn't. Either way, he's not going to amount to anything good in his life.
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On July 24 2011 01:41 CCow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:38 zodde wrote:On July 24 2011 01:30 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
Try to figure out the motives, whether or not he was alone, then have him executed.
As I understand it, Norway's justice system will allow this fucking idiot to be a free man again in 20 some years? So we should fall to his level and kill him? Why? It wont change anything. One less killer to put into psychiatric care (trust me, the high security patients cost a shit load of tax money). It's not like he's ever going to contribute to the society in a useful manner after this. It's pretty much this situation: - Costing tax money - Him being alive, allowing him to have a (however slight) chance to harm somebody else in his life. vs - Nothing He's a mass murderer, stop being so damn sensitive. We have had this discussion, your point is wrong. The facts tell another story as stated few pages before this and please, stop this discussion. Really. This thread is not about death sentence.
Honestly, discussions about his punishment should be part of the thread. Desire for justice is a natural human reaction to any tragedy, and it's healthy to express it.
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On July 24 2011 01:38 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:30 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
Try to figure out the motives, whether or not he was alone, then have him executed.
As I understand it, Norway's justice system will allow this fucking idiot to be a free man again in 20 some years? So we should fall to his level and kill him? Why? It wont change anything. One less killer to put into psychiatric care (trust me, the high security patients cost a shit load of tax money). It's not like he's ever going to contribute to the society in a useful manner after this. It's pretty much this situation: - Costing tax money - Him being alive, allowing him to have a (however slight) chance to harm somebody else in his life. vs - Nothing He's a mass murderer, stop being so damn sensitive.
Apparently the court costs (which is different when seeking death penalty) and the killing process cost substancially more than keeping them alive. Someone said 70% more earlier on.
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On July 23 2011 23:53 VanGarde wrote:There are not enough or good enough words to put any of this in its rightful perspective. I can only convey my and many of my countrymen's sentiment today through this picture. ![[image loading]](http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/250334_10150249191227198_532647197_7669642_2408272_s.jpg)
Nice picture. Thanks.
So proud to see how the country is handling it, and especially the PM, he's a rock.
I can't remember the last time I started crying -- must be when my father died 6 years ago, but it's simply impossible for me to hold back the tears today.
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On July 24 2011 01:36 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:32 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
isnt it strange to say ''u cant kill!!'' so someone kills and then he gets killed for killing U get the idea? No stranger than saying, "You can't kidnap people and hold them against their will in your basement." Which is basically what jail is. I'm generally against capital punishment because the possibility of mistakes (and that it's so expensive in the US). But I think it should be reserved for cases where there is absolutely no question the guy was a cold-blooded murdering asshole. Such people are not fit for society.
if u can tell me any other treatment for criminals than to put them in jail. tell me
it is a moderate way to keep them away from society. killing is not
So please dont compare it? T_T
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On July 24 2011 01:44 zodde wrote:
Exactly my point. If there's even the slightest chance of someone being innocent, give them a long prison sentence instead. But for total psychopaths like this guy, that are guilty beyond any doubt, just save the society some money and put him to sleep. He's never going to be able to function in our world, so it's either prison (or psychiatric care) for life, or death penalty.
One costs money, the other doesn't. One takes up a slot in the prison/psychiatric care system that could be used for someone who is less fucked up, who actually has a chance of ever function in the society, the other doesn't. Either way, he's not going to amount to anything good in his life.
Your point doesn't get better if you just keep on repeating it.
Your point is more than arguable and you sole argument is WRONG.
PLUS this thread is not about this AT ALL.
Could you please, please stop it?
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On July 24 2011 01:44 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:36 domovoi wrote:On July 24 2011 01:32 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
isnt it strange to say ''u cant kill!!'' so someone kills and then he gets killed for killing U get the idea? No stranger than saying, "You can't kidnap people and hold them against their will in your basement." Which is basically what jail is. I'm generally against capital punishment because the possibility of mistakes (and that it's so expensive in the US). But I think it should be reserved for cases where there is absolutely no question the guy was a cold-blooded murdering asshole. Such people are not fit for society. Exactly my point. If there's even the slightest chance of someone being innocent, give them a long prison sentence instead. But for total psychopaths like this guy, that are guilty beyond any doubt, just save the society some money and put him to sleep. He's never going to be able to function in our world, so it's either prison (or psychiatric care) for life, or death penalty. One costs money, the other doesn't. One takes up a slot in the prison/psychiatric care system that could be used for someone who is less fucked up, who actually has a chance of ever function in the society, the other doesn't. Either way, he's not going to amount to anything good in his life.
First of all you have to make it legal to carry out a death sentance in Norway which in itself costs more than keeping him alive. Then you have to pay for all the equipment and new staff.
It is NOT for free.
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On July 24 2011 01:45 Phenny wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:38 zodde wrote:On July 24 2011 01:30 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
Try to figure out the motives, whether or not he was alone, then have him executed.
As I understand it, Norway's justice system will allow this fucking idiot to be a free man again in 20 some years? So we should fall to his level and kill him? Why? It wont change anything. One less killer to put into psychiatric care (trust me, the high security patients cost a shit load of tax money). It's not like he's ever going to contribute to the society in a useful manner after this. It's pretty much this situation: - Costing tax money - Him being alive, allowing him to have a (however slight) chance to harm somebody else in his life. vs - Nothing He's a mass murderer, stop being so damn sensitive. Apparently the court costs (which is different when seeking death penalty) and the killing process cost substancially more than keeping them alive. Someone said 70% more earlier on.
Yes, the lengthy appeals process is to ensure absolutely nothing went wrong in his conviction. But if you raise the standard of proof to something like "beyond any doubt whatsoever," it's sensible to reduce the amount of appeals. Anyway, that's the American system. It's hard to say how Norwegians would implement it.
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On July 24 2011 01:45 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:41 CCow wrote:On July 24 2011 01:38 zodde wrote:On July 24 2011 01:30 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 24 2011 01:28 zodde wrote:
I get how that people are against death penalty in general. But in a case like this I really don't understand their reasoning. There is absolutely no chance that he's innocent, and he just killed 90ish innocent people. How has he earned the right to live?
Try to figure out the motives, whether or not he was alone, then have him executed.
As I understand it, Norway's justice system will allow this fucking idiot to be a free man again in 20 some years? So we should fall to his level and kill him? Why? It wont change anything. One less killer to put into psychiatric care (trust me, the high security patients cost a shit load of tax money). It's not like he's ever going to contribute to the society in a useful manner after this. It's pretty much this situation: - Costing tax money - Him being alive, allowing him to have a (however slight) chance to harm somebody else in his life. vs - Nothing He's a mass murderer, stop being so damn sensitive. We have had this discussion, your point is wrong. The facts tell another story as stated few pages before this and please, stop this discussion. Really. This thread is not about death sentence. Honestly, discussions about his punishment should be part of the thread. Desire for justice is a natural human reaction to any tragedy, and it's healthy to express it.
Discussing to change something Norwegians believes in and have believed in for a long long time. Is what being discussed here
Also Death penalty versus non death penalty (this is not related at all). Many are discussing what costs the most, how can you call this related? they should be banned for ruining this topic, and what they are discussing is clearly off topic for the events in Norway yesterday(which is supposed to be the discussion here) :\
Although I can agree with you that discussing how he should be punished is OK, theese discussions have gone way to far, and are not really related anymore, much like all the gun talk in the last thread. Yes what gun he uses is related, but when you start to argue over what gun can do what damage etc. It's taken to far, and is not related anymore
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Can't believe this thread is still dereailing into a death penalty discussion.
Death penalty is non-existant in Europe, not really more to say about that, if you feel that is wrong create your own damn thread.
Condolences to Norway and anyone affected by this.
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On July 24 2011 01:46 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
if u can tell me any other treatment for criminals than to put them in jail. tell me
it is a moderate way to keep them away from society. killing is not
So please dont compare it? T_T
You are biased by the status quo of your own society. Ask yourself why it's even necessary to jail criminals. Why not just fine them?
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EPT
