EPTGender disparity in E-sports - Page 3
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
No woman doesn't have it easy, it's pretty fucking hard, something most of you guys would learn if you had a girlfriend that was a gamer. If there was enough woman around that they weren't special then we wouldn't have this discussion, but topics like this make for a fucking bad invitation to esports for woman. You're only fueling your own stupid fire. Not to mention that 90% of all games sexualize woman or make for pisspoor "hero models" (things you want to identify with, say why we guys love certain game characters whilst everyone hates every male Final Fantasy character after FF7.) I do however admit that people like Kelly Milkies ruin it alot for the rest of womankind (my girlfriend hates her) because she's a class A example of : Not performing well enough, and when all else fails and nobody cares/likes you still, then do what most woman do; Expose yourself and make yourself into a sexual object... showing us that once again girls are here to be "pretty" and not just be who the fuck ever they want to be. So if you complain on people like Kelly Milkies, then yeah I agree. But stop making it sound like every woman is a manhating succubus. On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters. Show me scientific proof please. Not saying you're wrong, but saying it like you are just sounds so 1910. | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Sylverin
United States480 Posts
On July 15 2011 11:00 SonicTitan wrote: Sexism isn't the main reason women don't compete at high levels. Women just don't like to compete. That said, sexism does exist, and it goes BOTH ways, and BOTH sexes have a responsibility to stop it. I shortened this to avoid needless space waste hes on the first page folks. I agree with about 99% of what you said, however, I do believe women like competition maybe not as much as men but we wouldn't have girl leagues if they didn't. Other than that QFT and well said. | ||
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anycolourfloyd
Australia524 Posts
2) relates to 1. newbies are often scorned and made fun of. look at the lindsey sporrer 'fanclub'. a lot of the stuff in there just blatantly disrespects her. yeah she's completely new to starcraft but fucks sake, give the lass a chance. 3) females just aren't treated equally. either people are slobbering over them or they're the topic of just completely tasteless discussions. there are probably more females than we realise simply because they're unwilling to admit that they're female, so they don't have to deal with that sort of shit. will it ever change? maybe not. | ||
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Keldrath
United States449 Posts
that and women typically by nature arent really into competitive things, they are more about social and cooperative stuff which is why the largest amount of girl gamers in the world are mmorpg gamers. | ||
Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:25 anycolourfloyd wrote:+ Show Spoiler + 1) heaps of people on the internet are just flat dickheads. it's an outlet for the side of human nature that unfortunately exists. look at 4chan. revolting. females seem less inclined to tolerate this. 2) relates to 1. newbies are often scorned and made fun of. look at the lindsey sporrer 'fanclub'. a lot of the stuff in there just blatantly disrespects her. yeah she's completely new to starcraft but fucks sake, give the lass a chance. 3) females just aren't treated equally. either people are slobbering over them or they're the topic of just completely tasteless discussions. there are probably more females than we realise simply because they're unwilling to admit that they're female, so they don't have to deal with that sort of shit. will it ever change? maybe not. I hope you're wrong here. A little offtopic but you sir have an awesome username... | ||
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Aruno
New Zealand748 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:27 Keldrath wrote: theres no discrimination going on, its just simply a supply issue, there arent enough females out there trying to break in to pro gaming compared to the amount of males. that and women typically by nature arent really into competitive things, they are more about social and cooperative stuff which is why the largest amount of girl gamers in the world are mmorpg gamers. Are you saying we need to build additional pylons? | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On July 15 2011 11:54 NeverGG wrote: (Before people tear me a new one for giving my opinion please temember that I'm allowed to have one in the same way that you are allowed to have yours.) I got my ass handed to me, called a ton of names etc for saying that I felt as though KellyMilkies photoshoot wasn't beneficial to the image of women in esports as more than sex objects. At the time I had to wonder if the reaction would have been the same if I myself was attractive. I got called judgemental, narrow-minded and prudish just because I couldn't fathom why anyone wanting respect/to be judged upon something deeper than their aesthetic values would do a shoot like that. Perhaps Kelly had other objectives in mind, but since I don't know her personally and could only go by this article/her photos I don't know/care what her motivations were. It has been more of an uphill struggle for me to gain respect/get my work out there in certain respects. I've not even got a fanclub despite two years of photo shoots, projects and other work for TL. I feel as though I would have one if I was as attractive as Ms. Sporrer (and probably also if I was still more active on TL.) I did get a lot of comments during my active time on TL, and made a few friends which was nice. My worst experience actually came working with foreign esports 'journalists' a couple of years back. I found that the majority of them sucked up to the cute game booth girls at the event I was working at, and yet acted very condescendingly to me, or simply ignored me. I even had one person whom I specifically went out of my way to stop work to meet, and whom ditched me to chat to cute Korean girls instead. However, in the Korean scene I haven't felt that kind of negativity/lack of interest due to my lack of 'hotness.' It's probably got something to do with the language barrier as well, but I've found the Korean staff far more welcoming than some of the male foreign fans/staff I've met. As for the issue of girls not gaming. That's simply not true. I'm an avid gamer myself (I love survival horror and RPGs), but since I'm drawn towards games that are not multiplayer my gaming experiences are largely kept to myself. I do know plenty of foreign girls who do game (in the same way as myself, or using online games/multiplayer stuff etc.) I have found that there's a weird categorization that seems to happen with certain guys who are also into gaming/geek hobbies. Hot girls who are geeks are considered to be positive things, but unattractive girls are sometimes labeled losers/freaks for the same hobbies their 'hot' counterparts share. It'd be nice to feel as though we could be judged upon talent, motivation and achievements first instead of looks. I don't see that happening any time soon though. Honestly, I'd love to see what would happen if a girl who isn't considered 'hot' went pro and was good at what she did. It'd definitely be a good gauge of which (male) members of TL are judging us on more than our faces/bodies. (Aka. Who is worth being friends with.) On July 10 2011 13:11 obesechicken13 wrote: This is the Based on some far away glimpses of memories in a birthday and kitten blog, I didn't think you were that bad looking. I should say "I didn't think you were bad looking" and remove the that... but it's just the way I talk. +1 to the never looks good. God I just want to slap you. Shut up about thinking yourself unnatractive. You don't want that kind of attention. | ||
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anycolourfloyd
Australia524 Posts
unfortunately i have a very cynical view of the internet, thanks to 4chan. the anonymity fuels all the disgusting elements of humanity that you don't come across as often in real life. | ||
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matjlav
Germany2435 Posts
On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters. Tell me women don't have the dexterity for Starcraft after seeing that... | ||
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Disquiet
Australia628 Posts
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Herculix
United States946 Posts
female-only tournaments are good for females because they get their shit pushed in in unigender tournaments and they lose confidence as they see no females ever in a unigender tournament. there's no law put in place to stop females from joining unigender tournaments, just skill to stop them from getting far like everyone else. if winning a tournament gives them the confidence to try to get to the top, it's good. as far as what i want to do with women in esports, it's not up to me or any guy. they have the opportunity to win, it's not being held from them. they have the opportunity to play 12 hours a day for a long time to get really good, it's not being held from them. it's up to WOMEN to represent themselves as something worth respecting, or they get none, the same way that people who post in strat forum 'i'm rank 1 diamond in my league and here's my build' get no respect. and anyways, i can't speak for SlayerS_Eve because she's just one of many players trying to train to get better and win, but somebody like Lindsey Sporrer is doing good for our community by being connected to a different culture in our world but embracing esports and not being shy to tell people about it. ok, she's hot, so what? she's basically a professional hot girl, she's a model/actress. those are the kind of people who do what she did at NASL. that's a great thing that someone like her comes and tries to be involved in our community of her own accord (wanting to go to MLG, etc) and if you think she has to be a pro to be contributing to the scene, ask yourself what you're doing to help the scene and if you think that tops Lindsey. you probably don't do shit but post on TL and watch tournaments like most people. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters. In terms of athletic sports I'm willing to agree but to suggest that women cannot be as good as men with a mouse and keyboard is just sexist. I'm confident if as many women devoted as many hours to this game as men do, they would enjoy similar levels of success. Alot of women just aren't as attracted to the competitive world of gaming as men are and the few that are get stigmatized as 'attention whores' or 'tomboys'. The handful of female sc players I do know are talented for the amount of time they've invested in the game and it's a shame there aren't more. | ||
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SirKibbleX
United States479 Posts
That said, show us a girl who plays Starcraft as well as top male players do and we'll talk. What needs clarifying is why most women are so disinterested in competitive pursuits. | ||
NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:45 obesechicken13 wrote: God I just want to slap you. Shut up about thinking yourself unnatractive. You don't want that kind of attention. Oow. Actually, I'd like to be attractive. It beats feeling ugly all the time. However, I am not (I had this sentiment drilled into me from a young age by a lot of people), and regardless of what anyone says it does affect how guys treat me. Luckily, I'm currently friends with a few guys who can look past that issue so we can hang out and generally have a fun time related to our hobbies. | ||
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lizzard_warish
589 Posts
Also who gives a shit? | ||
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tbrown47
United States1235 Posts
On July 15 2011 13:00 NeverGG wrote: Oow. Actually, I'd like to be attractive. It beats feeling ugly all the time. However, I am not (I had this sentiment drilled into me from a young age by a lot of people), and regardless of what anyone says it does affect how guys treat me. Luckily, I'm currently friends with a few guys who can look past that issue so we can hang out and generally have a fun time related to our hobbies. you are making me sad never :[ id be friends with you i like rpgs and survival horrors edit: ps its my fucking birthday in 40 minutes | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:46 matjlav wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD6xMyuZls0 Tell me women don't have the dexterity for Starcraft after seeing that... Anyone can have the dexterity for 300+ apm, question is, why aren't there more girls interested in joining the pro scene? | ||
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