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On June 29 2011 12:11 KhaosKreator wrote:my honest-to-god actual opinion: i think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals
Was it your religion that blessed you with such insightful moral standards?
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On June 29 2011 12:12 2l84that wrote:
Can't speak up for Jewish people there, but in Turkey we do stun animals (or at least allowed to stun animals, some prefer not to which I find quite stupid) before we kill them for religious purposes, can't see why Muslim people there would actually create a problem out of this.
This happens with all religious groups, any time that something is open for interpretation from their religious text, they seem to interpret it as the opposite of what the government/law/outsiders view. I swear it seems like religions enjoy being controversial and bringing negative views towards them so they can play the victim.
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On June 29 2011 12:14 Aurocaido wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 12:11 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:03 hoor3x wrote:
fuck animals my honest-to-god actual opinion: i think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals Was it your religion that blessed you with such insightful moral standards?
Sadly no, the religion that was taught to me taught me to respect and value the life of an animal. Now I only value animals in so far as it effects human begins.
Was it your lack of religion that taught you it was okay to kill other living beings because they aren't as smart as us?
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On June 29 2011 12:16 KhaosKreator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 12:14 Aurocaido wrote:On June 29 2011 12:11 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:03 hoor3x wrote:
fuck animals my honest-to-god actual opinion: i think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals Was it your religion that blessed you with such insightful moral standards? Sadly no, the religion that was taught to me taught me to respect and value the life of an animal. Now I only value animals in so far as it effects human begins. Was it your lack of religion that taught you it was okay to kill other living beings because they aren't as smart as us?
Now you are just assuming, I am a vegetarian... By your last reply is it not you who thinks living beings don't matter because they are not as smart as us?
"I think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals"
Lol?
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I think this is a stab at religion in general, because if they cared about animal welfare than more laws would be put in place handling farms where all varieties of meat are raised. I'm not sure if all of Europe corn feeds, but where animals are fed corn, conditions are terrible.
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On June 29 2011 12:19 Aurocaido wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 12:16 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:14 Aurocaido wrote:On June 29 2011 12:11 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:03 hoor3x wrote:
fuck animals my honest-to-god actual opinion: i think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals Was it your religion that blessed you with such insightful moral standards? Sadly no, the religion that was taught to me taught me to respect and value the life of an animal. Now I only value animals in so far as it effects human begins. Was it your lack of religion that taught you it was okay to kill other living beings because they aren't as smart as us? Now you are just assuming, I am a vegetarian... By your last reply is it not you who thinks living beings don't matter because they are not as smart as us? "I think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals" Lol?
If you're a vegetarian and not a vegan, my point is still valid.
You're taking advantage of poor, stupid, defenseless animals for your own personal gain.
You monster.
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On June 29 2011 12:21 LMPeaches wrote:
I think this is a stab at religion in general, because if they cared about animal welfare than more laws would be put in place handling farms where all varieties of meat are raised. I'm not sure if all of Europe corn feeds, but where animals are fed corn, conditions are terrible.
Yep. Like I said, living conditions are what determine humane conditions.
If you torture me for 20 years and then give me the lethal injection, that's not better than letting me live life in a comfortable situation for 20 years and then killing me by slitting my throat.
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On June 29 2011 12:26 KhaosKreator wrote:
If you're a vegetarian and not a vegan, my point is still valid.
You're taking advantage of poor, stupid, defenseless animals for your own personal gain.
You monster.
This subject surely brings out both the idiots and the openly immoral people. But why are they so often one and the same?
On June 29 2011 12:21 LMPeaches wrote:
I think this is a stab at religion in general, because if they cared about animal welfare than more laws would be put in place handling farms where all varieties of meat are raised. I'm not sure if all of Europe corn feeds, but where animals are fed corn, conditions are terrible.
Then why did they make an exception for religion and only religion in the first place?
PvdD is a party lead by a strongly christian animal activist. They animal activism is unusual logical when it comes to animal activists. Really surprising.
Only thing you can say is that the VVD, who recently have become a party that is both anti Muslim and anti science, takes a less pro Jewish position then they usually would just to be anti Muslim. But that's about it.
Also, not slaughtering without stunning is not allowed in most countries in Europe. The Netherlands was the exception because there is such a pro religious freedom tradition here even among stanch atheists.
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Cutting throats is ok in my books as far as killing things goes.
Unlike mutilating infants who will be kept alive, now that is truly disgusting.
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On June 29 2011 12:26 KhaosKreator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 12:19 Aurocaido wrote:On June 29 2011 12:16 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:14 Aurocaido wrote:On June 29 2011 12:11 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:03 hoor3x wrote:
fuck animals my honest-to-god actual opinion: i think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals Was it your religion that blessed you with such insightful moral standards? Sadly no, the religion that was taught to me taught me to respect and value the life of an animal. Now I only value animals in so far as it effects human begins. Was it your lack of religion that taught you it was okay to kill other living beings because they aren't as smart as us? Now you are just assuming, I am a vegetarian... By your last reply is it not you who thinks living beings don't matter because they are not as smart as us? "I think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals" Lol? If you're a vegetarian and not a vegan, my point is still valid. You're taking advantage of poor, stupid, defenseless animals for your own personal gain. You monster.
Not quite, you said kill not take advantage of, your point actually is not valid. Don't you get embarrassed by some of the things you have said so far? I know its the internet, but still...
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On June 29 2011 12:33 Aurocaido wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 12:26 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:19 Aurocaido wrote:On June 29 2011 12:16 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:14 Aurocaido wrote:On June 29 2011 12:11 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:03 hoor3x wrote:
fuck animals my honest-to-god actual opinion: i think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals Was it your religion that blessed you with such insightful moral standards? Sadly no, the religion that was taught to me taught me to respect and value the life of an animal. Now I only value animals in so far as it effects human begins. Was it your lack of religion that taught you it was okay to kill other living beings because they aren't as smart as us? Now you are just assuming, I am a vegetarian... By your last reply is it not you who thinks living beings don't matter because they are not as smart as us? "I think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals" Lol? If you're a vegetarian and not a vegan, my point is still valid. You're taking advantage of poor, stupid, defenseless animals for your own personal gain. You monster. Not quite, you said kill not take advantage of, your point actually is not valid. Don't you get embarrassed by some of the things you have said so far? I know its the internet, but still...
Do you know what the dairy industry does with cows when they stop producing milk?
They kill them.
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On June 29 2011 12:16 KhaosKreator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 12:14 Aurocaido wrote:On June 29 2011 12:11 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:03 hoor3x wrote:
fuck animals my honest-to-god actual opinion: i think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals Was it your religion that blessed you with such insightful moral standards? Sadly no, the religion that was taught to me taught me to respect and value the life of an animal. Now I only value animals in so far as it effects human begins. Was it your lack of religion that taught you it was okay to kill other living beings because they aren't as smart as us?
Do computers feel pain you sick fuck?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 29 2011 13:35 blinken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 12:16 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:14 Aurocaido wrote:On June 29 2011 12:11 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 12:03 hoor3x wrote:
fuck animals my honest-to-god actual opinion: i think animals are just super complicated computers, so in reality i don't care either way. fuck animals Was it your religion that blessed you with such insightful moral standards? Sadly no, the religion that was taught to me taught me to respect and value the life of an animal. Now I only value animals in so far as it effects human begins. Was it your lack of religion that taught you it was okay to kill other living beings because they aren't as smart as us? Do computers feel pain you sick fuck?
How is killing an animal to eat being sick? are u a vegan or something?
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United States7483 Posts
On June 29 2011 11:58 KhaosKreator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 11:55 Nothingtosay wrote:On June 29 2011 11:49 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 11:31 Whitewing wrote:On June 29 2011 11:00 isM wrote:On June 29 2011 10:53 Whitewing wrote:The religions have no good reason to follow through on this, other than "lol tradition and religion." Animals not being tormented as they are being slaughtered is so far ahead of religious traditions in my book on the priority list that it's not even funny. Screw the religious traditions. Isn't the intolerance for others view's the same reason you guys dislike religion? This comes off as hypocritical to me, Halal/Kosher butchering is designed to virtually eliminate suffering from the animal. I cannot understand why people believe its okay to insert morals from only one side of an issue. No, the major reason most people dislike religion is that it's idiotic, poisonous, has no logical reason for it whatsoever, and it gets in the way of human development and progress. Religion for most is just a guide to a fulfilled life. Yes some people take it to extremes but you take anything to extremes and you are equally idiotic, poisonous and illogical. You cannot assume the views of a select few are matched by the masses either or you are no better than what you are trying to fight against. No, what I mean is, all religion, regardless of how extreme or inoffensive it might be, is idiotic. It's dumb to believe in something and base real life decisions on that belief when there is absolutely zero evidence to support that belief. You have zero reason to believe that living is "more good" than not living, and yet here you stand. Think of all the damage you're causing to the environment by existing! All that coal and oil you consume, and the trees you cut down to build your home, and the land you occupy that could be occupied by anything else. Unless, you don't value nature over yourself, of course. But you have no reason to value anything over anything else, so why would you? What idiots indeed, having values that are consistent with their belief system. Are you serious? no reason to think that being alive is better than being dead? As far as science goes being dead = game over and I don't think the vast majority of people want that. It's true that people don't want that! But science unfortunately doesn't care either way.  My point is that you can't apply "logic and science" to basic things like values. Your values have no logical basis. They wouldn't be values then, they would be facts.
Yes, you can, and yes, I do. All the time. You do to, at least to some degree, everyone does. It's just a question of degree, and how many of their values are determined this way. The fact that you actually think this way shows you have no understanding of what logic, reason, and science actually are, and don't understand what a value is.
I shall enlighten you:
A value is something that you hold to have worth, merit, and importance. Since your values are based in some form of reasoning on your part, the obvious question is why you hold those things as valuable to you. On the one hand, we have made up ideas like religion, and on the other we have actual scientific reasoning and logical conclusions based on reasonable arguments constructed from facts and evidence.
In other words, values should be derived from facts, data, and evidence. If they aren't, you have absolutely no good reason to hold those values.
Everyone has some logic or reasoning behind some of their values at the least, even if they aren't consciously aware of it. But all values should be based on this, not just some.
Since the religious traditions of any group have no basis in fact, data, or evidence, there is no good reason to hold those values, meaning respecting them is pointless and potentially harmful.
So yeah, put the animals to sleep before you butcher them.
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On June 29 2011 15:02 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 11:58 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 11:55 Nothingtosay wrote:On June 29 2011 11:49 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 11:31 Whitewing wrote:On June 29 2011 11:00 isM wrote:On June 29 2011 10:53 Whitewing wrote:The religions have no good reason to follow through on this, other than "lol tradition and religion." Animals not being tormented as they are being slaughtered is so far ahead of religious traditions in my book on the priority list that it's not even funny. Screw the religious traditions. Isn't the intolerance for others view's the same reason you guys dislike religion? This comes off as hypocritical to me, Halal/Kosher butchering is designed to virtually eliminate suffering from the animal. I cannot understand why people believe its okay to insert morals from only one side of an issue. No, the major reason most people dislike religion is that it's idiotic, poisonous, has no logical reason for it whatsoever, and it gets in the way of human development and progress. Religion for most is just a guide to a fulfilled life. Yes some people take it to extremes but you take anything to extremes and you are equally idiotic, poisonous and illogical. You cannot assume the views of a select few are matched by the masses either or you are no better than what you are trying to fight against. No, what I mean is, all religion, regardless of how extreme or inoffensive it might be, is idiotic. It's dumb to believe in something and base real life decisions on that belief when there is absolutely zero evidence to support that belief. You have zero reason to believe that living is "more good" than not living, and yet here you stand. Think of all the damage you're causing to the environment by existing! All that coal and oil you consume, and the trees you cut down to build your home, and the land you occupy that could be occupied by anything else. Unless, you don't value nature over yourself, of course. But you have no reason to value anything over anything else, so why would you? What idiots indeed, having values that are consistent with their belief system. Are you serious? no reason to think that being alive is better than being dead? As far as science goes being dead = game over and I don't think the vast majority of people want that. It's true that people don't want that! But science unfortunately doesn't care either way. My point is that you can't apply "logic and science" to basic things like values. Your values have no logical basis. They wouldn't be values then, they would be facts. Yes, you can, and yes, I do. All the time. The fact that you actually think this way shows you have no understanding of what logic, reason, and science actually are, and don't understand what a value is. I shall enlighten you: A value is something that you hold to have worth, merit, and importance. Since your values are based in some form of reasoning on your part, the obvious question is why you hold those things as valuable to you. On the one hand, we have made up ideas like religion, and on the other we have actual scientific reasoning and logical conclusions based on reasonable arguments constructed from facts and evidence. In other words, values should be derived from facts, data, and evidence. If they aren't, you have absolutely no good reason to hold those values. Since the religious traditions of any group have no basis in fact, data, or evidence, there is no good reason to hold those values, meaning respecting them is pointless and potentially harmful. So yeah, put the animals to sleep before you butcher them.
Your logic leaded us to colonization, slavery and genocide. Please think before talking about disrespecting traditions and religions of other people because it doesn't fit your point of view.
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If animals are going to be slaughtered for us to eat. I believe it should be done in the most humaine way possible to minimise pain and suffering to the animal. Sure killing animals is bad because you're killing a living creature but their meat provides us with sustinance that we need, so the slaughter of animals is needed if we are to be as healthy and develop as we can/should be.
If we are going to slaughter animals as required for our dietary needs, it should be done the best way possible. Just beacuse someone will only eat meat because of the way it's slaughtered is silly. I will eat meat regardless of how it is killed but in theory we should avoid all of the bad ways and only do the best way possible. It's the right thing to do.
You could argue that I can't make a statement that stunning animals before slaughter is the right way to do it. If there are any other ways or the halall way is the most viable that cause less pain we should adopt them only.
In the debate of how animals are slaughtered. The most humaine way should be the only way. All other ways are worse and should be avoided regardless of peoples feelings. The animals feelings are all that matter. They're the ones that are being killed because meat on a plate is exactly the same regardless of the slaughter process. The debate should be what is the best way to slaughter animals, find it out and then put it into practice.
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United States7483 Posts
On June 29 2011 15:13 Samhax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 15:02 Whitewing wrote:On June 29 2011 11:58 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 11:55 Nothingtosay wrote:On June 29 2011 11:49 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 11:31 Whitewing wrote:On June 29 2011 11:00 isM wrote:On June 29 2011 10:53 Whitewing wrote:The religions have no good reason to follow through on this, other than "lol tradition and religion." Animals not being tormented as they are being slaughtered is so far ahead of religious traditions in my book on the priority list that it's not even funny. Screw the religious traditions. Isn't the intolerance for others view's the same reason you guys dislike religion? This comes off as hypocritical to me, Halal/Kosher butchering is designed to virtually eliminate suffering from the animal. I cannot understand why people believe its okay to insert morals from only one side of an issue. No, the major reason most people dislike religion is that it's idiotic, poisonous, has no logical reason for it whatsoever, and it gets in the way of human development and progress. Religion for most is just a guide to a fulfilled life. Yes some people take it to extremes but you take anything to extremes and you are equally idiotic, poisonous and illogical. You cannot assume the views of a select few are matched by the masses either or you are no better than what you are trying to fight against. No, what I mean is, all religion, regardless of how extreme or inoffensive it might be, is idiotic. It's dumb to believe in something and base real life decisions on that belief when there is absolutely zero evidence to support that belief. You have zero reason to believe that living is "more good" than not living, and yet here you stand. Think of all the damage you're causing to the environment by existing! All that coal and oil you consume, and the trees you cut down to build your home, and the land you occupy that could be occupied by anything else. Unless, you don't value nature over yourself, of course. But you have no reason to value anything over anything else, so why would you? What idiots indeed, having values that are consistent with their belief system. Are you serious? no reason to think that being alive is better than being dead? As far as science goes being dead = game over and I don't think the vast majority of people want that. It's true that people don't want that! But science unfortunately doesn't care either way. My point is that you can't apply "logic and science" to basic things like values. Your values have no logical basis. They wouldn't be values then, they would be facts. Yes, you can, and yes, I do. All the time. The fact that you actually think this way shows you have no understanding of what logic, reason, and science actually are, and don't understand what a value is. I shall enlighten you: A value is something that you hold to have worth, merit, and importance. Since your values are based in some form of reasoning on your part, the obvious question is why you hold those things as valuable to you. On the one hand, we have made up ideas like religion, and on the other we have actual scientific reasoning and logical conclusions based on reasonable arguments constructed from facts and evidence. In other words, values should be derived from facts, data, and evidence. If they aren't, you have absolutely no good reason to hold those values. Since the religious traditions of any group have no basis in fact, data, or evidence, there is no good reason to hold those values, meaning respecting them is pointless and potentially harmful. So yeah, put the animals to sleep before you butcher them. Your logic leaded us to colonization, slavery and genocide. Please think before talking about traditions and religion.
You just jumped to a completely invalid conclusion, which is a poor use of logic. I never said using logic poorly was better than religion, I just said religion is bad. Further, the people responsible for slavery and genocide had no interest in doing the right thing or making the best decisions when determining their values.
The statement "Religious values are bad because there have no good reasons to support those values" is not logically equivalent to "Evil cannot happen if religion is gone." I have no idea how you managed to make that jump.
Of course it's possible for people to make bad decisions and do wrong and evil things, or hold no decent values without religion. What's your point? It is possible for non-religious things to be bad too, I never said ONLY religion is bad. People are capable of doing evil deeds with and without religion. The important thing, is that when you are trying to do the right thing (which the events you describe were not, although what's wrong with the idea of colonization? Some turned out badly, but there's nothing wrong with the concept itself), that you do it for good reasons, or else you might easily wind up doing the wrong thing.
Read, think, then post.
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On June 29 2011 15:18 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 15:13 Samhax wrote:On June 29 2011 15:02 Whitewing wrote:On June 29 2011 11:58 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 11:55 Nothingtosay wrote:On June 29 2011 11:49 KhaosKreator wrote:On June 29 2011 11:31 Whitewing wrote:On June 29 2011 11:00 isM wrote:On June 29 2011 10:53 Whitewing wrote:The religions have no good reason to follow through on this, other than "lol tradition and religion." Animals not being tormented as they are being slaughtered is so far ahead of religious traditions in my book on the priority list that it's not even funny. Screw the religious traditions. Isn't the intolerance for others view's the same reason you guys dislike religion? This comes off as hypocritical to me, Halal/Kosher butchering is designed to virtually eliminate suffering from the animal. I cannot understand why people believe its okay to insert morals from only one side of an issue. No, the major reason most people dislike religion is that it's idiotic, poisonous, has no logical reason for it whatsoever, and it gets in the way of human development and progress. Religion for most is just a guide to a fulfilled life. Yes some people take it to extremes but you take anything to extremes and you are equally idiotic, poisonous and illogical. You cannot assume the views of a select few are matched by the masses either or you are no better than what you are trying to fight against. No, what I mean is, all religion, regardless of how extreme or inoffensive it might be, is idiotic. It's dumb to believe in something and base real life decisions on that belief when there is absolutely zero evidence to support that belief. You have zero reason to believe that living is "more good" than not living, and yet here you stand. Think of all the damage you're causing to the environment by existing! All that coal and oil you consume, and the trees you cut down to build your home, and the land you occupy that could be occupied by anything else. Unless, you don't value nature over yourself, of course. But you have no reason to value anything over anything else, so why would you? What idiots indeed, having values that are consistent with their belief system. Are you serious? no reason to think that being alive is better than being dead? As far as science goes being dead = game over and I don't think the vast majority of people want that. It's true that people don't want that! But science unfortunately doesn't care either way. My point is that you can't apply "logic and science" to basic things like values. Your values have no logical basis. They wouldn't be values then, they would be facts. Yes, you can, and yes, I do. All the time. The fact that you actually think this way shows you have no understanding of what logic, reason, and science actually are, and don't understand what a value is. I shall enlighten you: A value is something that you hold to have worth, merit, and importance. Since your values are based in some form of reasoning on your part, the obvious question is why you hold those things as valuable to you. On the one hand, we have made up ideas like religion, and on the other we have actual scientific reasoning and logical conclusions based on reasonable arguments constructed from facts and evidence. In other words, values should be derived from facts, data, and evidence. If they aren't, you have absolutely no good reason to hold those values. Since the religious traditions of any group have no basis in fact, data, or evidence, there is no good reason to hold those values, meaning respecting them is pointless and potentially harmful. So yeah, put the animals to sleep before you butcher them. Your logic leaded us to colonization, slavery and genocide. Please think before talking about traditions and religion. You just jumped to a completely invalid conclusion, which is a poor use of logic. I never said using logic poorly was better than religion, I just said religion is bad. Of course it's possible for people to make bad decisions and do wrong and evil things, or hold no decent values without religion. What's your point? It is possible for non-religious things to be bad too, I never said ONLY religion is bad. People are capable of doing evil deeds with and without religion. The important thing, is that when you are trying to do the right thing (which the events you describe were not, although what's wrong with the idea of colonization? Some turned out badly, but there's nothing wrong with the concept itself), that you do it for good reasons, or else you might easily wind up doing the wrong thing. Read, think, then post.
You said we shouldn't respect traditions and religion of other people because of science, evidence, bla bla bla. Do you know why Europeans countries did colonize Africa, India, etc. Because they weren't respecting other cultures, other traditions and other religions, for them it was dumb people with dumb culture, and white people were going to learn them how to think and how to live. And you think exactly like this people.
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Aren't religion threads banned on TL?
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On June 29 2011 15:33 johanngrunt wrote:
Aren't religion threads banned on TL?
It's not stricto sensu a religion thread 
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