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Active: 618 users

Banning halal/kosher butchering - Page 20

Forum Index > General Forum
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Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 36 Next All
Oldboysctv
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada58 Posts
June 29 2011 01:09 GMT
#381
my opinion is that regardless of whether i think it is right or not, that is their religious belief, and i dont see anything wrong with them wanting to keep their beliefs, just as people respond and say that it shouldnt be allowed and being behind this law, you wanting them to lean towards your own beliefs. what if it was the other way around? and the majority of people wanted the jewish way and people wanted to put a law to only allow it.

point is, they kill their own food, they arent usually killing them by the 1000's they kill what they need or for some religious reason. almost all of north america doesnt even kill their own food or even plant it, they buy it from a grocery store. so instead of just jumping up and being right against it, maybe take a wider view of the whole thing and see that you yourself really have no experience or proper perspective on the whole matter.
There will always be better and worse players then yourself
sorrowptoss
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1431 Posts
June 29 2011 01:13 GMT
#382
TL debates get really touchy when it's intertwined with people's values/personnalities.
Diks
Profile Joined January 2010
Belgium1880 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 01:14:17
June 29 2011 01:13 GMT
#383
This kind of thread always hurt my little heart.
The human > animals make me want to puke on the keyboard of the guy who wrote this.
I don't agree at all about this one; human = animals. We are different but not better.

You are comparing men and animals with men standards. Of course animals don't know mathematic, alphabet and stuff, but can you fly ? can breath underwater ? can you communicate with pheromones ? How well can you understand body language ? can you sense an entire place without looking at it ?

Animals are fantastic, if you doubt about it, maybe you didn't study them enough.
I love every animals on this planet, my least favourite being the human.

Great power lead to great stupidity in that realm
pissingwildly
Profile Joined June 2011
12 Posts
June 29 2011 01:16 GMT
#384
On June 29 2011 09:41 Zetter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 09:36 BlackJack wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:24 Zetter wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:16 BlackJack wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:07 Zetter wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:06 BlackJack wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:01 Destro wrote:
On June 29 2011 07:50 smallerk wrote:
Just knowing that 180 people think we should kill animals by slitting their throat cold blood style, just because of religion. THAT SHIT MAKES ME SAD(and rage)


180 people believe in freedom.


180 people believe in the freedom to kill animals by slitting their throat cold blood style just because of religion*


Humans > Animals

Therefore

Religious tradition > Animal life


Humans > Animals

Therefore

New England Patriots > Miami Dolphins

Interesting.. I possess the ability to write down logical fallacies as well


It would be interesting, if my conclusion was a logical fallacy.

But to make it more specific, I could also say:

Humans > Animals

Therefore

Eternal Life of a human > Fleshly life of an animal


I could see that being used a moral argument for Muslims/Jews toward Halal/Kosher. However our laws aren't made by organized religion so a superstition about eternal life isn't a very compelling argument for a secularist.


By the means of freedom of religion, the government is obligated to guarantee religious fulfillment to each and everyone of it's citizens.


That's absolutely false and you know it. Not only is it impossible to guarantee anything like that, it's thoroughly dangerous to entertain that as a policy. The freedom to practice your religion does not include any freedom to ignore the consequences of your actions. If any practice, religious or not, causes the undue suffering of unwilling participants, then no government will defend it. There are very few exceptions to this and they are only exceptions because they have existed longer than the states themselves. If you ask me they will all be banned in the next few decades but that's neither here nor there.
derp
chuigo
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia93 Posts
June 29 2011 01:25 GMT
#385
How can a goat fear a knife if it is completely unaware as to what a fucking knife is?
Ridiculisk
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia191 Posts
June 29 2011 01:29 GMT
#386
The law needs to be changed, It's inhumane, archaic and outdated.

There is absolutly no reason why the animals can't be rendered unconscience first.

TAhackdZ.379 - Sc2sea.com Article Writer
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16984 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 01:32:28
June 29 2011 01:32 GMT
#387
On June 29 2011 09:41 Zetter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 09:36 BlackJack wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:24 Zetter wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:16 BlackJack wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:07 Zetter wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:06 BlackJack wrote:
On June 29 2011 09:01 Destro wrote:
On June 29 2011 07:50 smallerk wrote:
Just knowing that 180 people think we should kill animals by slitting their throat cold blood style, just because of religion. THAT SHIT MAKES ME SAD(and rage)


180 people believe in freedom.


180 people believe in the freedom to kill animals by slitting their throat cold blood style just because of religion*


Humans > Animals

Therefore

Religious tradition > Animal life


Humans > Animals

Therefore

New England Patriots > Miami Dolphins

Interesting.. I possess the ability to write down logical fallacies as well


It would be interesting, if my conclusion was a logical fallacy.

But to make it more specific, I could also say:

Humans > Animals

Therefore

Eternal Life of a human > Fleshly life of an animal


I could see that being used a moral argument for Muslims/Jews toward Halal/Kosher. However our laws aren't made by organized religion so a superstition about eternal life isn't a very compelling argument for a secularist.


By the means of freedom of religion, the government is obligated to guarantee religious fulfillment to each and everyone of it's citizens.


Let's pretend that my religion requires me to slaughter twenty Christians in my lifetime. Does the government have an obligation to help me in my quest? Who is the government to judge whether my religion is worthy of its consideration? Is it by sheer number? Because ten thousand people in the UK are registered as Jedis on the census.
Moderator
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
June 29 2011 01:37 GMT
#388
I love Halal food -______________________-
This is going to cause a riot regardless of it being morally right though
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 02:14:48
June 29 2011 01:45 GMT
#389
Personally, I feel human religious rights > animal rights when dealing with law. But legislating morality has become the standard, look at the drug/prostitution laws. Even Mormons and Muslims who practice polygamy are hindered by laws that are based on christian morality even though it is interfering with their religious norms.
:)
isM
Profile Joined September 2010
United States735 Posts
June 29 2011 01:50 GMT
#390
Isn't the intolerance for others view's the same reason you guys dislike religion? This comes off as hypocritical to me, Halal/Kosher butchering is designed to virtually eliminate suffering from the animal. I cannot understand why people believe its okay to insert morals from only one side of an issue.
Loose lips sink ships
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 01:54:41
June 29 2011 01:53 GMT
#391
The religions have no good reason to follow through on this, other than "lol tradition and religion." Animals not being tormented as they are being slaughtered is so far ahead of religious traditions in my book on the priority list that it's not even funny.

Screw the religious traditions.

Isn't the intolerance for others view's the same reason you guys dislike religion? This comes off as hypocritical to me, Halal/Kosher butchering is designed to virtually eliminate suffering from the animal. I cannot understand why people believe its okay to insert morals from only one side of an issue.


No, the major reason most people dislike religion is that it's idiotic, poisonous, has no logical reason for it whatsoever, and it gets in the way of human development and progress.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Hekisui
Profile Joined May 2011
195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 02:00:58
June 29 2011 01:57 GMT
#392
On June 29 2011 10:50 isM wrote:
Isn't the intolerance for others view's the same reason you guys dislike religion? This comes off as hypocritical to me, Halal/Kosher butchering is designed to virtually eliminate suffering from the animal. I cannot understand why people believe its okay to insert morals from only one side of an issue.


That shows just how self-defeating this religious dogma is. If halal and kosher butchering were designed to eliminate animal suffering in a stone age time, then now when that practice is the most cruel one available and more modern alternatives are available, what is the problem? Why is self defeating religious dogma that actually does the opposite of what it is supposed to do more important than animal rights?
If halal and kosher practices are so important and this is indeed the spirit behind them, why don't they change the dogma and the religious texts?

This is just the age old problem of religion. It is completely out of touch with reality. You are saying they are actually sinning against their imaginary god by sticking to the letter of their of the religious texts while accusing the rest of society, who are shocked and disgusted by their practices, that they are forced to sin against their imaginary god.
And then there are the animals that suffer needlessly. Ridiculing the suffering of animals is no different that ridiculing the suffering of humans.

How many times can one be wrong on a single issue? I can't fathom how it is theoretically possible.
isM
Profile Joined September 2010
United States735 Posts
June 29 2011 02:00 GMT
#393
On June 29 2011 10:53 Whitewing wrote:
The religions have no good reason to follow through on this, other than "lol tradition and religion." Animals not being tormented as they are being slaughtered is so far ahead of religious traditions in my book on the priority list that it's not even funny.

Screw the religious traditions.

Show nested quote +
Isn't the intolerance for others view's the same reason you guys dislike religion? This comes off as hypocritical to me, Halal/Kosher butchering is designed to virtually eliminate suffering from the animal. I cannot understand why people believe its okay to insert morals from only one side of an issue.


No, the major reason most people dislike religion is that it's idiotic, poisonous, has no logical reason for it whatsoever, and it gets in the way of human development and progress.


Religion for most is just a guide to a fulfilled life. Yes some people take it to extremes but you take anything to extremes and you are equally idiotic, poisonous and illogical. You cannot assume the views of a select few are matched by the masses either or you are no better than what you are trying to fight against.
Loose lips sink ships
blah_blah
Profile Joined April 2011
346 Posts
June 29 2011 02:12 GMT
#394
On June 28 2011 23:11 Vashalgrim wrote:And that law would seem to be prohibiting the free exercise of someone's religious belief. Does the Dutch constitution have a similar clause?


This may be shocking to you, but not all countries were founded by religious zealots fleeing persecution and hence do not provide the same protection for religious practices.
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13005 Posts
June 29 2011 02:13 GMT
#395
There's a good expose recently done by an Australian current affairs program on this issue. It raised a lot of ire in Australia and recently led to an export ban with Indonesia.

It's well worth a watch if you have the time. No specifically related to the issue of Halal, but looks more at the issue of live exports.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110530/cattle/

**Beware it's a little disturbing though if you're a pro animal rights person.

"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Shaok
Profile Joined October 2010
297 Posts
June 29 2011 02:19 GMT
#396
Neither. Where is the 3rd option. We are eating the Animal. If there is a heaven or hell it most likely won't remember this "pain" that happened during its life. Also, the rituals and practices of a religion have no effect on the actual animal in reality so that point is also moot.
Olinim
Profile Joined March 2011
4044 Posts
June 29 2011 02:20 GMT
#397
The religious should not get any special treatment in regards to the law. They are free to exercise their right to freedom of religion but it does not make them immune to the law if their religion's teachings violate the law. The question in the op is what is worth more, their traditions or animal rights, and in this case it should be "What are their traditions worth in regards to the law?" The answer is nothing.
isM
Profile Joined September 2010
United States735 Posts
June 29 2011 02:20 GMT
#398
On June 29 2011 11:12 blah_blah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 23:11 Vashalgrim wrote:And that law would seem to be prohibiting the free exercise of someone's religious belief. Does the Dutch constitution have a similar clause?


This may be shocking to you, but not all countries were founded by religious zealots fleeing persecution and hence do not provide the same protection for religious practices.



That is weird to me because I don't seem to remember the Pilgrims being the ones who wrote the United States Constitution, silly me.
Loose lips sink ships
Hynda
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden2226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 02:23:17
June 29 2011 02:21 GMT
#399
Since it's at most a matter of miliseconds of pain we are talking about when cuting an animals, if it actually was a practice that was cruel to the animal there might have been a point in it, but it's not. Who says the panic the animal feels when being forced unconcious isn't worse?

And anyone that gets upset by this, you really don't want to know how the animals are treated before they go to slaughter, a knife in your neck is the least of your issue. No, not even your precious "We totally treat our meat right"-seal helps, there are cases every single day showing that the way to make profit is to treat your animals like garbage. Perhaps you should focus on fixing the 3 years of complete misery before you complain about miliseconds worth of pain -.-

And no I'm not religious in the slightest but it seems like as soon as people bring the subject up people lose their heads and any means of thinking rationally.
Aurocaido
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada288 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 02:34:57
June 29 2011 02:23 GMT
#400
Religion and the thousand year old traditions that go with it have outlived there usefulness. Unethical practices or laws that stem from religion have no place in a modern world. And neither does religion for that matter.

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