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On May 28 2011 02:41 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:32 travis wrote:
You're in the right when you try to stop a bunch of gang members from beating up some guy on the street, but when they knife you and you die - guess what - it may not have been a good idea Of course. You have to pick your battles. But don't you agree that in this particular case the pros outweights the cons? - On one side is the short term financial support and a few curse words from some religious fanatics vs - On the other hand is improving long term freedom of choice for the whole nation IMHO it's much closer to Rosa Sparks case than to go hand-to-hand with armed people.
Well that's another vast oversimplification/overstatement
On one side is the potential to be ostracized from your entire community (which may or may not be important to you... but having a relationship with your parents can be pretty handy)
On the other side is the potential to make a small dent in regards to improving freedom of choice for the nation. And I am sure that dent was small indeed, even with all the attention this got.
This isn't some kind of profoundly great oppression the kid was facing here... it was a minor contention.
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Reading the responses makes me sick.
He was fully in his right to protest and the fact that people said he should just have pretended to pray disgusts me.
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On May 28 2011 02:44 KoKoRo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:42 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:40 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:36 Joementum wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:04 KoKoRo wrote:
I couldn't finish reading this because the article is so biased in the beginning. I'm agnostic but holy shit atheists are just as bad as the people attacking this person. I liked the part where the counselor brought up that no other atheist/agnostic/other religious person has had a problem with it then the person writing the article brought up, "he's getting attacked for what he believed in." No, he's getting attacked because there is a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor place.
If the majority wants to prayer, they ARE in the right. Because one kid doesn't like it he was willing to report the situation to the state/government and have the entire thing locked down. What's more fucked up? The fact that an atheist, a solo person, is allowed to do this? Or the fact that a majority gets away with any of this? Personally I don't like atheists. They're a bunch of stuck up pricks who do shove their values down other peoples throats just as much as any other religious group. The ass hole could've just kept his mouth shut during prayer and not pray. Every time my school stopped class for '9/11 prayer to the lost' I just used that time to sleep for a minute. My uncle hates, literally will cause physical harm to me when nobody is looking, because I am not religious. This shit is common. We all have differences and deal with things differently. The only, ONLY, ONNNLLLYYYY thing this article brings up that's of any controversy is his parents kicking him out and disowning him.
The parents were over reacting to what their son did. But disowning him is going too far. Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check Ad hominem? Check Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Hey guys, 1 corporation wants to fuck over it's customers because their unethical. They're right because it's the law! Get the fuck over it. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then leave. You have no idea how much I'd rather not be living in America. On May 28 2011 02:36 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check
Ad hominem? Check
Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check
Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? People who don't want to pray? A single part of the religious groups called Atheism? Other religions who pray in separate ways? I want to know exactly why praying in school is/should be against the law. Kid's praying in school on their on volition is fine and legal, government, or school sponsored prayer promoting a certain religion certainly isn't, and if you can't see why then wow. So it's against the law for a school to say, "At this time we'd like everyone to pray." But it's not against the law for people to pray whenever they want in school or opt out of praying. Makes no sense to me. Now if they were directly forcing people to pray, as in, "If you don't pray you'll fail." I'd consider this law just in my own views. On May 28 2011 02:38 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check
Ad hominem? Check
Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check
Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? You can't be serious... You should stop editing what I say in quotes. Editing how, exactly? That's literally what you said and it says a lot. You obviously have no understanding of the world around you other than America = Christianity. I'm agnostic. I don't care how religion fares. I only care how the people in society fair for the time being. You edited what I say by neglecting the rest of what I said.
You're genuinely saying you cannot understand the reasoning behind why a state government should not show particular favour towards (conversely, discrimination against) any religion?
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On May 28 2011 02:47 Valashu wrote:
Reading the responses makes me sick.
He was fully in his right to protest and the fact that people said he should just have pretended to pray disgusts me.
And the people who are saying that are complete cowards.
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On May 28 2011 02:45 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:40 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:36 Joementum wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:04 KoKoRo wrote:
I couldn't finish reading this because the article is so biased in the beginning. I'm agnostic but holy shit atheists are just as bad as the people attacking this person. I liked the part where the counselor brought up that no other atheist/agnostic/other religious person has had a problem with it then the person writing the article brought up, "he's getting attacked for what he believed in." No, he's getting attacked because there is a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor place.
If the majority wants to prayer, they ARE in the right. Because one kid doesn't like it he was willing to report the situation to the state/government and have the entire thing locked down. What's more fucked up? The fact that an atheist, a solo person, is allowed to do this? Or the fact that a majority gets away with any of this? Personally I don't like atheists. They're a bunch of stuck up pricks who do shove their values down other peoples throats just as much as any other religious group. The ass hole could've just kept his mouth shut during prayer and not pray. Every time my school stopped class for '9/11 prayer to the lost' I just used that time to sleep for a minute. My uncle hates, literally will cause physical harm to me when nobody is looking, because I am not religious. This shit is common. We all have differences and deal with things differently. The only, ONLY, ONNNLLLYYYY thing this article brings up that's of any controversy is his parents kicking him out and disowning him.
The parents were over reacting to what their son did. But disowning him is going too far. Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check Ad hominem? Check Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Hey guys, 1 corporation wants to fuck over it's customers because their unethical. They're right because it's the law! Get the fuck over it. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then leave. You have no idea how much I'd rather not be living in America. On May 28 2011 02:36 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:04 KoKoRo wrote:
I couldn't finish reading this because the article is so biased in the beginning. I'm agnostic but holy shit atheists are just as bad as the people attacking this person. I liked the part where the counselor brought up that no other atheist/agnostic/other religious person has had a problem with it then the person writing the article brought up, "he's getting attacked for what he believed in." No, he's getting attacked because there is a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor place.
If the majority wants to prayer, they ARE in the right. Because one kid doesn't like it he was willing to report the situation to the state/government and have the entire thing locked down. What's more fucked up? The fact that an atheist, a solo person, is allowed to do this? Or the fact that a majority gets away with any of this? Personally I don't like atheists. They're a bunch of stuck up pricks who do shove their values down other peoples throats just as much as any other religious group. The ass hole could've just kept his mouth shut during prayer and not pray. Every time my school stopped class for '9/11 prayer to the lost' I just used that time to sleep for a minute. My uncle hates, literally will cause physical harm to me when nobody is looking, because I am not religious. This shit is common. We all have differences and deal with things differently. The only, ONLY, ONNNLLLYYYY thing this article brings up that's of any controversy is his parents kicking him out and disowning him.
The parents were over reacting to what their son did. But disowning him is going too far. Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check Ad hominem? Check Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? People who don't want to pray? A single part of the religious groups called Atheism? Other religions who pray in separate ways? I want to know exactly why praying in school is/should be against the law. Kid's praying in school on their on volition is fine and legal, government, or school sponsored prayer promoting a certain religion certainly isn't, and if you can't see why then wow. So it's against the law for a school to say, "At this time we'd like everyone to pray." But it's not against the law for people to pray whenever they want in school or opt out of praying. Makes no sense to me. Now if they were directly forcing people to pray, as in, "If you don't pray you'll fail." I'd consider this law just in my own views. On May 28 2011 02:38 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:04 KoKoRo wrote:
I couldn't finish reading this because the article is so biased in the beginning. I'm agnostic but holy shit atheists are just as bad as the people attacking this person. I liked the part where the counselor brought up that no other atheist/agnostic/other religious person has had a problem with it then the person writing the article brought up, "he's getting attacked for what he believed in." No, he's getting attacked because there is a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor place.
If the majority wants to prayer, they ARE in the right. Because one kid doesn't like it he was willing to report the situation to the state/government and have the entire thing locked down. What's more fucked up? The fact that an atheist, a solo person, is allowed to do this? Or the fact that a majority gets away with any of this? Personally I don't like atheists. They're a bunch of stuck up pricks who do shove their values down other peoples throats just as much as any other religious group. The ass hole could've just kept his mouth shut during prayer and not pray. Every time my school stopped class for '9/11 prayer to the lost' I just used that time to sleep for a minute. My uncle hates, literally will cause physical harm to me when nobody is looking, because I am not religious. This shit is common. We all have differences and deal with things differently. The only, ONLY, ONNNLLLYYYY thing this article brings up that's of any controversy is his parents kicking him out and disowning him.
The parents were over reacting to what their son did. But disowning him is going too far. Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check Ad hominem? Check Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? You can't be serious... You should stop editing what I say in quotes. Because a public official for the school isn't suppose to support one religion over the other, and waste class time with that nonsense, have you ever heard of a constitution? Separation of church and state? Do you seriously not see any repercussions in supporting one kid's religious views in a class and spitting on the others? Yes that won't cause problems.
It seems to me that the only problems that come up are from a small minority. Like this case, it's just another Atheism vs Christianity article. As far as I'm aware Atheist start most of the problems and Christians just antagonize/finish it.
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On May 28 2011 02:48 KoKoRo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:45 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:40 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:36 Joementum wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:04 KoKoRo wrote:
I couldn't finish reading this because the article is so biased in the beginning. I'm agnostic but holy shit atheists are just as bad as the people attacking this person. I liked the part where the counselor brought up that no other atheist/agnostic/other religious person has had a problem with it then the person writing the article brought up, "he's getting attacked for what he believed in." No, he's getting attacked because there is a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor place.
If the majority wants to prayer, they ARE in the right. Because one kid doesn't like it he was willing to report the situation to the state/government and have the entire thing locked down. What's more fucked up? The fact that an atheist, a solo person, is allowed to do this? Or the fact that a majority gets away with any of this? Personally I don't like atheists. They're a bunch of stuck up pricks who do shove their values down other peoples throats just as much as any other religious group. The ass hole could've just kept his mouth shut during prayer and not pray. Every time my school stopped class for '9/11 prayer to the lost' I just used that time to sleep for a minute. My uncle hates, literally will cause physical harm to me when nobody is looking, because I am not religious. This shit is common. We all have differences and deal with things differently. The only, ONLY, ONNNLLLYYYY thing this article brings up that's of any controversy is his parents kicking him out and disowning him.
The parents were over reacting to what their son did. But disowning him is going too far. Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check Ad hominem? Check Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Hey guys, 1 corporation wants to fuck over it's customers because their unethical. They're right because it's the law! Get the fuck over it. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then leave. You have no idea how much I'd rather not be living in America. On May 28 2011 02:36 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check
Ad hominem? Check
Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check
Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? People who don't want to pray? A single part of the religious groups called Atheism? Other religions who pray in separate ways? I want to know exactly why praying in school is/should be against the law. Kid's praying in school on their on volition is fine and legal, government, or school sponsored prayer promoting a certain religion certainly isn't, and if you can't see why then wow. So it's against the law for a school to say, "At this time we'd like everyone to pray." But it's not against the law for people to pray whenever they want in school or opt out of praying. Makes no sense to me. Now if they were directly forcing people to pray, as in, "If you don't pray you'll fail." I'd consider this law just in my own views. On May 28 2011 02:38 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check
Ad hominem? Check
Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check
Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? You can't be serious... You should stop editing what I say in quotes. Because a public official for the school isn't suppose to support one religion over the other, and waste class time with that nonsense, have you ever heard of a constitution? Separation of church and state? Do you seriously not see any repercussions in supporting one kid's religious views in a class and spitting on the others? Yes that won't cause problems. It seems to me that the only problems that come up are from a small minority. Like this case, it's just another Atheism vs Christianity article. As far as I'm aware Atheist start most of the problems and Christians just antagonize/finish it.
There wouldn't be any problems if Christians weren't constantly shoving their views down our throats in places that they shouldn't be, such as in school. It makes sense, doesn't it? You don't just pray in a ceremony at school because you believe everyone's a Christian. It doesn't work that way. Either, you get everyone to agree, don't do it as a school function, or let the students that want to pray do it individually.
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On May 28 2011 02:47 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:44 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:42 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:40 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:36 Joementum wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:04 KoKoRo wrote:
I couldn't finish reading this because the article is so biased in the beginning. I'm agnostic but holy shit atheists are just as bad as the people attacking this person. I liked the part where the counselor brought up that no other atheist/agnostic/other religious person has had a problem with it then the person writing the article brought up, "he's getting attacked for what he believed in." No, he's getting attacked because there is a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor place.
If the majority wants to prayer, they ARE in the right. Because one kid doesn't like it he was willing to report the situation to the state/government and have the entire thing locked down. What's more fucked up? The fact that an atheist, a solo person, is allowed to do this? Or the fact that a majority gets away with any of this? Personally I don't like atheists. They're a bunch of stuck up pricks who do shove their values down other peoples throats just as much as any other religious group. The ass hole could've just kept his mouth shut during prayer and not pray. Every time my school stopped class for '9/11 prayer to the lost' I just used that time to sleep for a minute. My uncle hates, literally will cause physical harm to me when nobody is looking, because I am not religious. This shit is common. We all have differences and deal with things differently. The only, ONLY, ONNNLLLYYYY thing this article brings up that's of any controversy is his parents kicking him out and disowning him.
The parents were over reacting to what their son did. But disowning him is going too far. Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check Ad hominem? Check Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Hey guys, 1 corporation wants to fuck over it's customers because their unethical. They're right because it's the law! Get the fuck over it. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then leave. You have no idea how much I'd rather not be living in America. On May 28 2011 02:36 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works.
Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? People who don't want to pray? A single part of the religious groups called Atheism? Other religions who pray in separate ways? I want to know exactly why praying in school is/should be against the law. Kid's praying in school on their on volition is fine and legal, government, or school sponsored prayer promoting a certain religion certainly isn't, and if you can't see why then wow. So it's against the law for a school to say, "At this time we'd like everyone to pray." But it's not against the law for people to pray whenever they want in school or opt out of praying. Makes no sense to me. Now if they were directly forcing people to pray, as in, "If you don't pray you'll fail." I'd consider this law just in my own views. On May 28 2011 02:38 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works.
Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? You can't be serious... You should stop editing what I say in quotes. Editing how, exactly? That's literally what you said and it says a lot. You obviously have no understanding of the world around you other than America = Christianity. I'm agnostic. I don't care how religion fares. I only care how the people in society fair for the time being. You edited what I say by neglecting the rest of what I said. You're genuinely saying you cannot understand the reasoning behind why a state government should not show particular favour towards (conversely, discrimination against) any religion?
I'm saying I do not understand why people have a problem with it. Since basically as much as Atheists want to believe they're not a religion, they still follow the same guidelines as a religion and start problems for those who want to be part of a religion. I just don't understand why it's fair to have this happen.
And as far as Separation of State and Church is concerned, wasn't it started because of Darwinism? That's be Religion vs Science.
On May 28 2011 02:49 Joementum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:48 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:45 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:40 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:36 Joementum wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:04 KoKoRo wrote:
I couldn't finish reading this because the article is so biased in the beginning. I'm agnostic but holy shit atheists are just as bad as the people attacking this person. I liked the part where the counselor brought up that no other atheist/agnostic/other religious person has had a problem with it then the person writing the article brought up, "he's getting attacked for what he believed in." No, he's getting attacked because there is a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor place.
If the majority wants to prayer, they ARE in the right. Because one kid doesn't like it he was willing to report the situation to the state/government and have the entire thing locked down. What's more fucked up? The fact that an atheist, a solo person, is allowed to do this? Or the fact that a majority gets away with any of this? Personally I don't like atheists. They're a bunch of stuck up pricks who do shove their values down other peoples throats just as much as any other religious group. The ass hole could've just kept his mouth shut during prayer and not pray. Every time my school stopped class for '9/11 prayer to the lost' I just used that time to sleep for a minute. My uncle hates, literally will cause physical harm to me when nobody is looking, because I am not religious. This shit is common. We all have differences and deal with things differently. The only, ONLY, ONNNLLLYYYY thing this article brings up that's of any controversy is his parents kicking him out and disowning him.
The parents were over reacting to what their son did. But disowning him is going too far. Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check Ad hominem? Check Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Hey guys, 1 corporation wants to fuck over it's customers because their unethical. They're right because it's the law! Get the fuck over it. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then leave. You have no idea how much I'd rather not be living in America. On May 28 2011 02:36 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works.
Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? People who don't want to pray? A single part of the religious groups called Atheism? Other religions who pray in separate ways? I want to know exactly why praying in school is/should be against the law. Kid's praying in school on their on volition is fine and legal, government, or school sponsored prayer promoting a certain religion certainly isn't, and if you can't see why then wow. So it's against the law for a school to say, "At this time we'd like everyone to pray." But it's not against the law for people to pray whenever they want in school or opt out of praying. Makes no sense to me. Now if they were directly forcing people to pray, as in, "If you don't pray you'll fail." I'd consider this law just in my own views. On May 28 2011 02:38 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works.
Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? You can't be serious... You should stop editing what I say in quotes. Because a public official for the school isn't suppose to support one religion over the other, and waste class time with that nonsense, have you ever heard of a constitution? Separation of church and state? Do you seriously not see any repercussions in supporting one kid's religious views in a class and spitting on the others? Yes that won't cause problems. It seems to me that the only problems that come up are from a small minority. Like this case, it's just another Atheism vs Christianity article. As far as I'm aware Atheist start most of the problems and Christians just antagonize/finish it. There wouldn't be any problems if Christians weren't constantly shoving their views down our throats in places that they shouldn't be, such as in school. It makes sense, doesn't it? You don't just pray in a ceremony at school because you believe everyone's a Christian. It doesn't work that way. Either, you get everyone to agree, don't do it as a school function, or let the students that want to pray do it individually.
I'm not happy with Atheists who seem to think they're in the right because they believe there is no God. I'm agnostic because a Christian came to me and sad he didn't agree with the fact I didn't believe in God. I told him why I didn't believe in him and why I would not and he opened my eyes that it's possible that there is a God and he why was raised to believe there is. Atheists were shoving the fact that there isn't a God down my throat ever since I discovered the internet. I don't agree completely with the Christian view of there being God and he IS around or he did create everything in 7 days. But I'm not against the idea if he/one does exist and they created everything. While Science proves a lot of things about religion wrong, who's to say the force that set it all in motion wasn't some deity? Some things just can't be explained, like how the particles(I don't actually know what caused the big bang  ) got there in the first place, and until they are we will know how things came to be.
I'm actually quite fond of the multiple universe theory.
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On May 28 2011 02:48 KoKoRo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:45 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:40 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:36 Joementum wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:04 KoKoRo wrote:
I couldn't finish reading this because the article is so biased in the beginning. I'm agnostic but holy shit atheists are just as bad as the people attacking this person. I liked the part where the counselor brought up that no other atheist/agnostic/other religious person has had a problem with it then the person writing the article brought up, "he's getting attacked for what he believed in." No, he's getting attacked because there is a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor place.
If the majority wants to prayer, they ARE in the right. Because one kid doesn't like it he was willing to report the situation to the state/government and have the entire thing locked down. What's more fucked up? The fact that an atheist, a solo person, is allowed to do this? Or the fact that a majority gets away with any of this? Personally I don't like atheists. They're a bunch of stuck up pricks who do shove their values down other peoples throats just as much as any other religious group. The ass hole could've just kept his mouth shut during prayer and not pray. Every time my school stopped class for '9/11 prayer to the lost' I just used that time to sleep for a minute. My uncle hates, literally will cause physical harm to me when nobody is looking, because I am not religious. This shit is common. We all have differences and deal with things differently. The only, ONLY, ONNNLLLYYYY thing this article brings up that's of any controversy is his parents kicking him out and disowning him.
The parents were over reacting to what their son did. But disowning him is going too far. Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check Ad hominem? Check Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Hey guys, 1 corporation wants to fuck over it's customers because their unethical. They're right because it's the law! Get the fuck over it. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then leave. You have no idea how much I'd rather not be living in America. On May 28 2011 02:36 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check
Ad hominem? Check
Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check
Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? People who don't want to pray? A single part of the religious groups called Atheism? Other religions who pray in separate ways? I want to know exactly why praying in school is/should be against the law. Kid's praying in school on their on volition is fine and legal, government, or school sponsored prayer promoting a certain religion certainly isn't, and if you can't see why then wow. So it's against the law for a school to say, "At this time we'd like everyone to pray." But it's not against the law for people to pray whenever they want in school or opt out of praying. Makes no sense to me. Now if they were directly forcing people to pray, as in, "If you don't pray you'll fail." I'd consider this law just in my own views. On May 28 2011 02:38 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check
Ad hominem? Check
Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check
Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? You can't be serious... You should stop editing what I say in quotes. Because a public official for the school isn't suppose to support one religion over the other, and waste class time with that nonsense, have you ever heard of a constitution? Separation of church and state? Do you seriously not see any repercussions in supporting one kid's religious views in a class and spitting on the others? Yes that won't cause problems. It seems to me that the only problems that come up are from a small minority. Like this case, it's just another Atheism vs Christianity article. As far as I'm aware Atheist start most of the problems and Christians just antagonize/finish it.
It's called freedom of religion, and people should not have to take part in religious ceremonies that they don't have to. Saying a prayer during a graduation ceremony counts as a public, state institution giving specific favour, and bias, to Christianity.
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On May 28 2011 02:52 KoKoRo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:47 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:44 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:42 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:40 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:36 Joementum wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check
Ad hominem? Check
Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check
Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Hey guys, 1 corporation wants to fuck over it's customers because their unethical. They're right because it's the law! Get the fuck over it. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then leave. You have no idea how much I'd rather not be living in America. On May 28 2011 02:36 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:
[quote]
You forgot how the prayer was illegal ?
Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? People who don't want to pray? A single part of the religious groups called Atheism? Other religions who pray in separate ways? I want to know exactly why praying in school is/should be against the law. Kid's praying in school on their on volition is fine and legal, government, or school sponsored prayer promoting a certain religion certainly isn't, and if you can't see why then wow. So it's against the law for a school to say, "At this time we'd like everyone to pray." But it's not against the law for people to pray whenever they want in school or opt out of praying. Makes no sense to me. Now if they were directly forcing people to pray, as in, "If you don't pray you'll fail." I'd consider this law just in my own views. On May 28 2011 02:38 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:
[quote]
You forgot how the prayer was illegal ?
Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? You can't be serious... You should stop editing what I say in quotes. Editing how, exactly? That's literally what you said and it says a lot. You obviously have no understanding of the world around you other than America = Christianity. I'm agnostic. I don't care how religion fares. I only care how the people in society fair for the time being. You edited what I say by neglecting the rest of what I said. You're genuinely saying you cannot understand the reasoning behind why a state government should not show particular favour towards (conversely, discrimination against) any religion? I'm saying I do not understand why people have a problem with it. Since basically as much as Atheists want to believe they're not a religion, they still follow the same guidelines as a religion and start problems for those who want to be part of a religion. I just don't understand why it's fair to have this happen. And as far as Separation of State and Church is concerned, wasn't it started because of Darwinism? That's be Religion vs Science.
What the hell...? Also you don't need to be an Atheist to realize the negative repercussions of government endorsed religion, just not terribly deluded.
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On May 28 2011 02:52 KoKoRo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:47 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:44 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:42 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:40 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:36 Joementum wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:On May 28 2011 02:10 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:06 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
Sweeping generalization of an entire group of people? Check
Ad hominem? Check
Objection to a kid reporting a clear violation of the law and constitution? Check
Complete fail? Check Sweeping Generalization because it's true. Funny how that works. Objecting because he was willing to cause problems for a lot of people. Causing problems for the whole is definitely in the wrong in my views. You forgot how the prayer was illegal ? Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Hey guys, 1 corporation wants to fuck over it's customers because their unethical. They're right because it's the law! Get the fuck over it. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then leave. You have no idea how much I'd rather not be living in America. On May 28 2011 02:36 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:
[quote]
You forgot how the prayer was illegal ?
Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? People who don't want to pray? A single part of the religious groups called Atheism? Other religions who pray in separate ways? I want to know exactly why praying in school is/should be against the law. Kid's praying in school on their on volition is fine and legal, government, or school sponsored prayer promoting a certain religion certainly isn't, and if you can't see why then wow. So it's against the law for a school to say, "At this time we'd like everyone to pray." But it's not against the law for people to pray whenever they want in school or opt out of praying. Makes no sense to me. Now if they were directly forcing people to pray, as in, "If you don't pray you'll fail." I'd consider this law just in my own views. On May 28 2011 02:38 Bibdy wrote:On May 28 2011 02:33 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Olinim wrote:On May 28 2011 02:27 KoKoRo wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 mcc wrote:
[quote]
You forgot how the prayer was illegal ?
Hey guys, 1 person wants to cause problems for a lot of people. He's right because it's the law. That's America. Prayer in school causes problems, that's why there is a law against it. For who exactly? You can't be serious... You should stop editing what I say in quotes. Editing how, exactly? That's literally what you said and it says a lot. You obviously have no understanding of the world around you other than America = Christianity. I'm agnostic. I don't care how religion fares. I only care how the people in society fair for the time being. You edited what I say by neglecting the rest of what I said. You're genuinely saying you cannot understand the reasoning behind why a state government should not show particular favour towards (conversely, discrimination against) any religion? I'm saying I do not understand why people have a problem with it. Since basically as much as Atheists want to believe they're not a religion, they still follow the same guidelines as a religion and start problems for those who want to be part of a religion. I just don't understand why it's fair to have this happen. And as far as Separation of State and Church is concerned, wasn't it started because of Darwinism? That's be Religion vs Science.
What? The First Amendment was written in the 1700s, while Darwin wasn't born until the 1800s.
They have a problem with it because it's not right. It infringes upon their freedoms. Just because you might just keep your mouth shut and mumble the words until its over, doesn't mean everyone else is willing to. The same freedoms that Christians have, to practice their beliefs without interference from the state, should apply to everybody.
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they still follow the same guidelines as a religion
They talk to people who aren't there, give money to people who say they talk to people who aren't there, and base all their life decisions on a book that was written by a man 2000 years ago?
No, no I think you might actually be horribly incorrect, sir.
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On May 28 2011 02:48 KoKoRo wrote:
It seems to me that the only problems that come up are from a small minority. Like this case, it's just another Atheism vs Christianity article. As far as I'm aware Atheist start most of the problems and Christians just antagonize/finish it.
What?!? It's like "if only them blacks didn't protest everything would be alright."
Having a goverment institution pushing one form of religion is BAD. How hard is that to understand? Even as an agnostic you should be able to understand that. Just read about what we did to Native Americans attempting to civilize by destroying their culture and replacing it with ours which included religion. The way Native Americans use religion is very different then the way white Americans used it. This school is doing the same expect in a much less extreme manner, but it still is promoting one group over another ostracizing atheists, some agnostics and other religions.
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Okay, seriously guys, the thread isn't about agnosticism and atheism and such.
And why are people debating so hard that it's okay for prayer to be in schools? It's not hard to do some research on the history of prayer in schools and why we have laws against it. Things like the Edgerton Bible Case and Engel v. Vitale offers very good reasons why we do not allow school-sanctioned prayer.
Prayer in School: Not okay.
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On May 28 2011 03:02 DoubleReed wrote:Okay, seriously guys, the thread isn't about agnosticism and atheism and such. And why are people debating so hard that it's okay for prayer to be in schools? It's not hard to do some research on the history of prayer in schools and why we have laws against it. Things like the Edgerton Bible Case and Engel v. Vitale offers very good reasons why we do not allow school-sanctioned prayer in schools. Prayer in School: Not okay.
Seriously. The fact that anyone can argue against this is actually a bit depressing :-/
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On May 28 2011 02:54 DamnCats wrote:They talk to people who aren't there, give money to people who say they talk to people who aren't there, and base all their life decisions on a book that was written by a man 2000 years ago? No, no I think you might actually be horribly incorrect, sir.
That's not what a religion guideline is at all. The money they give obviously goes to maintaining the Church which would otherwise decay over time.
As for talking to someone who isn't there and 'decision making'. Religions are following a BOOK OF GUIDELINES. Atheist choose not to follow that book and say, "I'll make them as I go and base them around the law." I dunno if you know this but most laws come from that Book made 2000 years ago.
Talking to someone who isn't there is totally optional for religion.
Tell me, how is Atheism not a religion.
On May 28 2011 02:56 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:48 KoKoRo wrote:
It seems to me that the only problems that come up are from a small minority. Like this case, it's just another Atheism vs Christianity article. As far as I'm aware Atheist start most of the problems and Christians just antagonize/finish it. What?!? It's like "if only them blacks didn't protest everything would be alright."
Majority(Blacks) vs Majority(Whites) =/= Minority(Atheism) vs Majority(Religion).
Having a goverment institution pushing one form of religion is BAD. How hard is that to understand? Even as an agnostic you should be able to understand that. Just read about what we did to Native Americans attempting to civilize by destroying their culture and replacing it with ours which included religion. The way Native Americans use religion is very different then the way white Americans used it. This school is doing the same expect in a much less extreme manner, but it still is promoting one group over another ostracizing atheists, some agnostics and other religions.
Ok, so you're saying it's a problem because 1 religion is harassing another religion. I understand your views.
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On May 28 2011 03:07 KoKoRo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:54 DamnCats wrote:they still follow the same guidelines as a religion They talk to people who aren't there, give money to people who say they talk to people who aren't there, and base all their life decisions on a book that was written by a man 2000 years ago? No, no I think you might actually be horribly incorrect, sir. That's not what a religion guideline is at all. The money they give obviously goes to maintaining the Church which would otherwise decay over time. As for talking to someone who isn't there and 'decision making'. Religions are following a BOOK OF GUIDELINES. Atheist choose not to follow that book and say, "I'll make them as I go and base them around the law." I dunno if you know this but most laws come from that Book made 2000 years ago. Talking to someone who isn't there is totally optional for religion. Tell me, how is Atheism not a religion. Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:56 BlackMagister wrote:On May 28 2011 02:48 KoKoRo wrote:
It seems to me that the only problems that come up are from a small minority. Like this case, it's just another Atheism vs Christianity article. As far as I'm aware Atheist start most of the problems and Christians just antagonize/finish it. What?!? It's like "if only them blacks didn't protest everything would be alright." Majority(Blacks) vs Majority(Whites) =/= Minority(Atheism) vs Majority(Religion). Show nested quote +
Having a goverment institution pushing one form of religion is BAD. How hard is that to understand? Even as an agnostic you should be able to understand that. Just read about what we did to Native Americans attempting to civilize by destroying their culture and replacing it with ours which included religion. The way Native Americans use religion is very different then the way white Americans used it. This school is doing the same expect in a much less extreme manner, but it still is promoting one group over another ostracizing atheists, some agnostics and other religions.
Ok, so you're saying it's a problem because 1 religion is harassing another religion. I understand your views.
Atheism is a religion in the same way not playing guitar is a hobby(its not). The only thing you can assume about me when I say I'm an atheist is that I lack a belief in deities. Atheism has no established dogma, no rules simply an absence of a belief, what you're basically saying is that a lack of a belief is a belief system which is freaking hilarious.
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Majority(Blacks) vs Majority(Whites) =/= Minority(Atheism) vs Majority(Religion).
Blacks are a minority... They are one of largest minority racially, but they are still a minority.
http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/
You can also still be a large population but be oppressed and hence considered a minority according to sociological study. Women for example are considered a minority
"Minority group means "singled our for unequal treatment."
It's also not just one religion harassing everyone not of their religion. They are promoting one view over another and believe me if this school did a Muslim prayer there would be a huge outcry. This is a Christian prayer.
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On May 28 2011 03:10 Olinim wrote:
Atheism is a religion in the same way not playing guitar is a hobby. The only thing you can assume about me when I say I'm an atheist is that I lack a belief in deities. Atheism has no established dogma, no rules, what you're basically saying is that a lack of a belief is a belief system which is freaking hilarious.
Opposite ends of the spectrum are still in the same spectrum.
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EPT
