• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:53
CEST 10:53
KST 17:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll0Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension1Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [Guide] MyStarcraft [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 500 users

Student gets ostracized for refusing to pray - Page 92

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 90 91 92
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-06 02:02:42
June 06 2011 02:02 GMT
#1821
On June 06 2011 09:08 Fourn wrote:
The kid did not deserve that, but he is still an asshole.

What kind of dick knowingly ruins a tradition like that? It really does seem like he was just trying to get himself attention and be an asshole. I applaud the previous atheists of that school who didn't try to pull a stunt like this. Prayer at graduation doesn't affect him in anyway and he should just put up with it because (based on atheist beliefs) they're just thinking thoughts in their head to a God that doesn't exist.

He is an ignorant little prick, but that doesn't justify what happened to him. The world would be a much better place if people like him were not in it and the same goes for the people who are treating him like this. If he could have just accepted the fact that there are people in this world with different beliefs then him, then he would be happily living with his parents right now, but insteade had to make a big deal out of nothing.

It isn't like the school was doing a ritual sacrifice at graduation, it was just a helpless little prayer.
What is the big fuckin deal?


I find him to be quite courageous. I would knowingly ruin a tradition like that, too, if given the chance, as a matter of integrity. Traditions based on illegal actions should hold no special place in society. Tradition for the sake of tradition has been debunked so many times in this thread I think I'd be wasting my time to honor that with a response.

Prayer at graduation not only affects him, it affects people all over the country. As you continue to endorse illegal behavior, it will grow and more people will have it forced on them.

By the way, I don't see how not allowing school endorsed prayer affects you. You can still pray in silence, no one is stopping you. There are no thought police. Wow, I love how that argument can turn right around on you.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
Gorguts
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada254 Posts
June 06 2011 02:44 GMT
#1822
Religion needs to go away already.
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-06 14:54:48
June 06 2011 14:51 GMT
#1823
On June 06 2011 09:55 MozzarellaL wrote:
Nothing in the OP suggests the prayer was school sponsored, only that the prayer was traditionally held at graduations. What if, in recognition of this tradition, the student council put together the schedule and planning for graduation (as may be the case in many high schools across the country), and the student council implemented a student-led prayer?

It is entirely student-initiated and student-led. Is is unconstitutional? The school district has nothing to do with it, nor the superintendent, nor the principal, nor the teachers. They could all be atheists. There's no facts in the OP to suggest this wasn't the case.

http://www.nonprophetsradio.com/nonprophets.xml
According to an online radio show discussion on "The Non Prophets" with Damon Fowler (he is introduced 3mins in) the school originally did cave into pressure with a "moment of silence" to replace prayer, but instead decided to go ahead with the prayer anyways. There was discussion on the school's graduation Facebook page about whether or not they were going to do the Lord's Prayer after the controversy and if you see the graduation ceremony there clearly is a Lord's Prayer with Jesus being mentioned. It is called a "moment of silence" but it definitely is not.

Also according to lawyers they talked to it doesn't matter if students do it. It is at a school sponsored event and the student speakers are mouthpieces for the school. My example would be if a student used the morning announcements to do a morning prayer, if the school staff had nothing to do with it the school should still be held responsible if they allow it.

Lord's Prayer at the Graduation
Cyba
Profile Joined June 2010
Romania221 Posts
June 06 2011 15:02 GMT
#1824
You do realize that's all just some lawyer mumbo jumbo, fact that it will be treated as sponsored because they used some shit they already had doesn't mean that you as an independent individual can't see that it has nothing to do with funds. Fact that it's illegal purely because of some interpretable bs, doesn't mean it's morally wrong.
I'm not evil, I'm just good lookin
MozzarellaL
Profile Joined November 2010
United States822 Posts
June 06 2011 15:06 GMT
#1825
The consistent and incorrect use of the word 'illegal' rankles me more than this guy's treatment at the hands of his neighbors. It isn't fucking illegal. It isn't a fucking crime, nor are there punishable fines for a school to institute a school prayer, so stop saying that it is illegal.
aristarchus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States652 Posts
June 06 2011 15:11 GMT
#1826
On June 07 2011 00:06 MozzarellaL wrote:
The consistent and incorrect use of the word 'illegal' rankles me more than this guy's treatment at the hands of his neighbors. It isn't fucking illegal. It isn't a fucking crime, nor are there punishable fines for a school to institute a school prayer, so stop saying that it is illegal.

Yes, it is illegal. It is a violation of the constitution. The supreme court has been very clear about this. The normal thing for the court to do in this case is issue an injunction requiring that the practice be stopped. They don't normally issue fines. But if you refuse to obey the injunction there are very much fines and other punishments that can be used. In fact, the idea that one branch of government would willfully ignore the rulings of the supreme court is potentially worse than a normal crime, since it calls into question the reliability of the government itself. In some ways it's more equivalent to a coup than a normal crime.
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-06 15:21:40
June 06 2011 15:14 GMT
#1827
On June 07 2011 00:06 MozzarellaL wrote:
The consistent and incorrect use of the word 'illegal' rankles me more than this guy's treatment at the hands of his neighbors. It isn't fucking illegal. It isn't a fucking crime, nor are there punishable fines for a school to institute a school prayer, so stop saying that it is illegal.

And listening to the discussion there are schools that do go to court over this issue and are found to be violating the law. Don't know the cases specifically at the moment, but if you're really questioning whether they exist I'm sure I could find them. On the other hand if you think it shouldn't be illegal well that's another discussion, though one that has been repeated in this thread.

In the prayer at football games case it was found unconstitutional even if led by a student.
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=12727
adun12345
Profile Joined May 2011
United States198 Posts
June 07 2011 20:13 GMT
#1828
An absolutely shameful response from his community. That sort of behavior is entirely unacceptable, no matter what you think on the prayer question.

As for prayer in schools - Constitutionally, you can't have a prayer (even student-led) as a component of a school-sponsored activity (football game, graduation ceremony, etc.). If a group of students wish to gather for themselves and hold a prayer session before, during, or after the event, then that's their right, but even speaking as a believer and a prayerful one at that, prayer has no place in a public school graduation ceremony.
Husnan
Profile Joined November 2010
France298 Posts
June 07 2011 20:51 GMT
#1829
On June 08 2011 05:13 adun12345 wrote:
An absolutely shameful response from his community. That sort of behavior is entirely unacceptable, no matter what you think on the prayer question.

As for prayer in schools - Constitutionally, you can't have a prayer (even student-led) as a component of a school-sponsored activity (football game, graduation ceremony, etc.). If a group of students wish to gather for themselves and hold a prayer session before, during, or after the event, then that's their right, but even speaking as a believer and a prayerful one at that, prayer has no place in a public school graduation ceremony.


At first, I misread your first sentence, and thought you wrote "An absolutely shameful response from THIS community".

I have to say I agree with both versions.
You see what happens, Larry? You see what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass?
Prev 1 90 91 92
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 222
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2465
PianO 597
Stork 249
BeSt 139
Leta 55
Shine 28
JulyZerg 20
Noble 20
Bale 14
Dota 2
ODPixel568
monkeys_forever568
XcaliburYe429
League of Legends
JimRising 565
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K837
shoxiejesuss248
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King161
Westballz20
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor131
Other Games
summit1g9247
ceh9691
Fuzer 244
SortOf154
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4716
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH336
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2177
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling107
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
2h 7m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
WardiTV European League
1d 7h
ShoWTimE vs sebesdes
Percival vs NightPhoenix
Shameless vs Nicoract
Krystianer vs Scarlett
ByuN vs uThermal
Harstem vs HeRoMaRinE
PiGosaur Monday
1d 15h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.