EPTcould try out e-cigs if you're really that concerned.
personally i don't smoke cigarettes (although i enjoy hookah from time to time), generally only weed, but i think most anti smoking laws are pretty stupid.
Smoking Ban in NYC - Page 14
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
could try out e-cigs if you're really that concerned. personally i don't smoke cigarettes (although i enjoy hookah from time to time), generally only weed, but i think most anti smoking laws are pretty stupid. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On May 24 2011 10:07 fush wrote: Effect of Secondhand Smoke on Occupancy of Nicotinic Acetylcholine Receptors in Brain. Brody AL, Mandelkern MA, London ED, Khan A, Kozman D, Costello MR, Vellios EE, Archie MM, Bascom R, Mukhin AG. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21536968 Cigarette smoking saturates brain alpha 4 beta 2 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. Brody AL, Mandelkern MA, London ED, Olmstead RE, Farahi J, Scheibal D, Jou J, Allen V, Tiongson E, Chefer SI, Koren AO, Mukhin AG. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16894067 can't help you if you don't have access to papers, but you asked for the evidence. the 2nd paper shows that 1 puff of cigarette smoke can occupy receptors in your brain (and likely elsewhere, since nicotinic receptors bind nicotine with very high affinity around the body) for 3 hours. On May 24 2011 10:06 mordk wrote: You should read the posts quoted... but anyways... just pulled out of my ass: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440792/ http://www.bmj.com/content/315/7114/980.abstract http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/111/20/2684 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1440-1843.2003.00453.x/full It took me less than a minute to find these four... all in respectable publications, and just a VERY small sample of the INSANE amounts of evidence available. Of course you can't just take these and instantly interpretate them as truth. However, the point stands, there IS scientific evidence, lots of it. One more thing, cigarette effects are cumulative, which means if people smoke in my environment, even for small amounts of time, through the years I will be progressively damaged by it. I don't know what you define as "short term exposure", but it doesn't really matter. A little every day for many years is likely to cause me tons of trouble. i understand that any harm done will be done over time of exposure. how outdoor SHS effects the body can be measured, what i want to know how much amount over time is fatal? cigarette isn't the only source of heart disease and other various illnesses. if a person who has never had a cigarette dies of lung cancer, SHS can be a factor but it wont be the only one. if someone in fine health is really worried about being effected by outdoor SHS, with respect, i think that person needs to set his health priorities straight. in my opinion, this ban has more to do with people fearing illnesses related to cigarettes and annoyance of the smell. +littering not supported by real danger. i support this ban out of courtesy, not because of its potential to kill. edit: i'll read the papers after work. | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
On May 24 2011 06:07 scatmango2 wrote: This is really a tough call. The smoker should have the right to smoke wherever he pleases. However the non-smoker should be allowed a smoke-free environment. It's just a pile of fuck I tells ya. Maybe make an alternate universe for no smoking? | ||
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juked
United States691 Posts
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On May 24 2011 10:46 jinorazi wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 24 2011 10:07 fush wrote: Effect of Secondhand Smoke on Occupancy of Nicotinic Acetylcholine Receptors in Brain. Brody AL, Mandelkern MA, London ED, Khan A, Kozman D, Costello MR, Vellios EE, Archie MM, Bascom R, Mukhin AG. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21536968 Cigarette smoking saturates brain alpha 4 beta 2 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. Brody AL, Mandelkern MA, London ED, Olmstead RE, Farahi J, Scheibal D, Jou J, Allen V, Tiongson E, Chefer SI, Koren AO, Mukhin AG. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16894067 can't help you if you don't have access to papers, but you asked for the evidence. the 2nd paper shows that 1 puff of cigarette smoke can occupy receptors in your brain (and likely elsewhere, since nicotinic receptors bind nicotine with very high affinity around the body) for 3 hours. On May 24 2011 10:06 mordk wrote: You should read the posts quoted... but anyways... just pulled out of my ass: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440792/ http://www.bmj.com/content/315/7114/980.abstract http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/111/20/2684 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1440-1843.2003.00453.x/full It took me less than a minute to find these four... all in respectable publications, and just a VERY small sample of the INSANE amounts of evidence available. Of course you can't just take these and instantly interpretate them as truth. However, the point stands, there IS scientific evidence, lots of it. One more thing, cigarette effects are cumulative, which means if people smoke in my environment, even for small amounts of time, through the years I will be progressively damaged by it. I don't know what you define as "short term exposure", but it doesn't really matter. A little every day for many years is likely to cause me tons of trouble. i understand that any harm done will be done over time of exposure. how outdoor SHS effects the body can be measured, what i want to know how much amount over time is fatal? cigarette isn't the only source of heart disease and other various illnesses. if a person who has never had a cigarette dies of lung cancer, SHS can be a factor but it wont be the only one. if someone in fine health is really worried about being effected by outdoor SHS, with respect, i think that person needs to set his health priorities straight. in my opinion, this ban has more to do with people fearing illnesses related to cigarettes and annoyance of the smell. not supported by real danger. i support this ban out of courtesy, not because of its potential to kill. You need to understand that relationship doesn't always relate to causality. A huge majority of diseases are multi-factorial, and when a person dies of, say, a heart attack, you can't just say "oh.. he died because he smoked" or "because he was fat", it's a confluence of many physiopathological factors that lead to disease, in most cases. This doesn't mean that those risk factors shouldn't be managed, from both an individual and communitary point of view. I will agree that currently, evidence is insufficient to label environmental SHS as a risk factor for many of the diseases associated with tobacco smoking. I believe (as in, haven't read enough to be completely certain) that there's strong evidence supporting higher complications, increased rates of hospitalization, and decrease in quality of life in the case of asthmatic patients exposed to environmental SHS. Evidence is pretty solid in the case of children's respiratory diseases as well. I think more studies need to (and will) be performed to make a completely unbiased judgement of the matter, however, in my opinion, the likelihood of the damage being relevant, even if not for everyone, makes it enough to be bannable. | ||
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Alethios
New Zealand2765 Posts
People kicked up a bit of a fuss at the time, but now all the smokers just take a 30 second walk to the street instead of smoking in the communal areas. Great idea. | ||
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PlaGuE_R
France1151 Posts
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inamorato
United States263 Posts
This is fucking absurd. I love how they claim 50,000 people die from second hand smoke yearly. The only smoke that is carcinogenic is the inhaled smoke and the smoke that comes directly off of the burning cigarette. No one ingests the smoke that comes off of a cigarette when you are outdoors. I remember when smoking in a hospital was legal. The only possible upside to this is making self righteous assholes feel even better about themselves, and possibly cutting down on litter. But its NYC. Do you really think NYC is ever going to be free of litter or significantly improved because of a smoking ban? It's the dirtiest city in all of the world. I think the legislature//government needs to direct their attention to more pertinent issues aside from smoking, and the war on drugs. just stop if you have no idea what you're talking about. nicotine is the main psychoactive drug in cigarettes and a recent study shows second hand smoke causes activation of 20% of all brain nicotinic receptors in a non-smoker. What the fuck are you talking about? When anywhere did I say anything that nicotine isn't addictive? I think you were just quoting me walking around with your "Recent Study Results" in your holster waiting to bust your data out to impress the readers of TL because your response is completely irrelevant to what I said. You probably aren't even aware of what second hand smoke is. I bet you overheard your parents have a discussion about the NYC Ban and you came on to share your newly acquired statistics about nicotine. This is where the adults like to discuss. Why don't you go to 4chan with your kid shit. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On May 24 2011 11:06 PlaGuE_R wrote: secondhand smoke in NYC cause 50,000 deaths a year? no mate, that's the exhaust shit you inhale every day from the million cars and trucks going about in front of your face...but keep deluding yourself. I'm pretty sure that data is for the entire United States. CDC says only 49,400 deaths per year in the United States attributable to SHS, counting heart disease and lung cancer. So yeah. He's exaggerating. | ||
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deadhead42o
United States6 Posts
*edit* just realized that i have no idea if people use the word square out side of where i live. It mean cigarette if anyone doesn't know. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On May 24 2011 11:14 deadhead42o wrote: ima non tobacco smoker, but enough of my friends smoke tobacco that i dont really care either way, dosent bother me if some one is smoking a square next to me. *edit* just realized that i have no idea if people use the word square out side of where i live. It mean cigarette if anyone doesn't know. Interesting, to me it means 'self righteous non smoker'. + Show Spoiler + j/k guys, before 90% of the people in this thread jump down my throat Seriously though, I can see the arguments for both sides, and since it doesn't affect me I can happily accept it as a fine idea. If it did affect me though... Here smoking was banned in indoor public areas and workplaces which is ok, but if it was banned in certain public places...I dunno, I'd be pretty pissed. It's not like I go around breathing smoke into people's faces, I just like to have the odd fag sat in the park with friends or on a bench outside the pub. | ||
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WarMonkey0
United States7 Posts
Once a society gets over a critical mass of anti-smoking people, then it's only a matter of time until cigarettes are banned completely, so you better quit now  lol.Marijuana on the other hand will be legal in US in less than 10 years. Quite an interesting world we live in | ||
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Zealotdriver
United States1557 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Spyfire242
United States715 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7579 Posts
I think if even one person can be helped to avoid a disease then its worth it. As a smoker, I've always felt bad when non-smokers or kids walk within my bubble, I think that this law basically enforces my conscience. I think it is a great idea but still not the governments job or right. Get our schools up to par, get the economy balanced, worry about unemployment and problems that can help our youth. | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On May 24 2011 11:28 The KY wrote: Interesting, to me it means 'self righteous non smoker'. + Show Spoiler + j/k guys, before 90% of the people in this thread jump down my throat Seriously though, I can see the arguments for both sides, and since it doesn't affect me I can happily accept it as a fine idea. If it did affect me though... Here smoking was banned in indoor public areas and workplaces which is ok, but if it was banned in certain public places...I dunno, I'd be pretty pissed. It's not like I go around breathing smoke into people's faces, I just like to have the odd fag sat in the park with friends or on a bench outside the pub. you're responsible person but other people aren't. now that we're getting a much better idea of the harmful effects of cigarette smoking and shs not just for its broad spectrum health effects but also - and probably more importantly - on the developmental effects on children (which seems to me a primary concern when talking about parks, beaches, and recreational areas in the article), this ban isn't exactly outrageous. it's not that they're banning smoking altogether - hopefully we'll get to a point in the near future where no one has to "ban" anything, but rather people will eventually just stop. | ||
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
So much smoker hate in here too, its crazy. Its almost as crazy as anti-marijuana views. They are logical arguments, but they use an intense amount of hyperbole to make small things like catching a wiff of weed to be like getting hit in the face with a hammer. Ignorance is bliss nonsmokers  ps- i dont smoke ciggs just bud | ||
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Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:12 Surrealz wrote: this is hilarious, smoke disperses so fast outdoors that this is just laughable. Kinda have to agree with this. The second hand smoke studies people have been posting are almost all irrelevant because almost all of them are based on subjects in confined places with constant smoking around them. I don't think a law is needed here. Smokers just need to respect the wishes of non-smokers while smoking in public. Sometimes that means not having a smoke and sometimes it just means holding your cigarette in the other hand while you pass someone by. | ||
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Spyfire242
United States715 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:12 Surrealz wrote: this is hilarious, smoke disperses so fast outdoors that this is just laughable. Also, if you are saying that cigarettes are filthy litter, please stop bring f'kin water bottles to the park too then. Also do not bring any wrappers or packaged foods with you. So much smoker hate in here too, its crazy. Its almost as crazy as anti-marijuana views. They are logical arguments, but they use an intense amount of hyperbole to make small things like catching a wiff of weed to be like getting hit in the face with a hammer. Ignorance is bliss nonsmokers ps- i dont smoke ciggs just bud So crazy to hate something that kills tens of thousands of people each year, marijuana is different, its way less lethal. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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