|
On May 30 2011 05:08 D10 wrote:
Krav Maga is not useless, but its a falacy to think its anything else than a couple of self defense mannouvers, in a fight, the BJJ guy would sub the Krav Maga guy 9 out of 10 times
In a fight? A fight with zero rules? A fight isn't staged around rules.. Krav Maga allows the fighter to use and do anything: bottles, daggers, kicks to the groin, eye-gouging, biting etc etc. Fighting is not about submitting someone, fighting is about being the person able to stand up and walk away (while the other person is either unconcious or dead of course). Krav Maga is created for that kind of situations.
Competition != reality. Far from it. Krav Maga is not trained as a sport. It's trained by military specialists all over the world and it's goal is to be as destructive as possible.
To all BJJ practitioners: is there a BJJ style that is purely martial and has an answer to attacks from multiple people? Most stuff on BJJ focusses so hard on ground fighting that I'm having a hard time taking it seriously from a purely martial point of view, mainly because of the focus on going to the ground ASAP (which is plain stupid when there is more than one attacker).
EDIT: I'm an avid Aikido practitioner, though not too fond of the overly esotheric side of the art. Mainly interested in the martial side of it.
|
Muay thai boran for 9 years now. But I do not compete , quite risky XD. Just train hardchore.
|
Kyokushin Kaikan Karate, it's pretty tough but there is nothing better to evacuate pressure and to be all chilled out.
Osu!!
|
On May 30 2011 06:12 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 05:08 D10 wrote:
Krav Maga is not useless, but its a falacy to think its anything else than a couple of self defense mannouvers, in a fight, the BJJ guy would sub the Krav Maga guy 9 out of 10 times In a fight? A fight with zero rules? A fight isn't staged around rules.. Krav Maga allows the fighter to use and do anything: bottles, daggers, kicks to the groin, eye-gouging, biting etc etc. Fighting is not about submitting someone, fighting is about being the person able to stand up and walk away. Competition != reality. Far from it. Krav Maga is not trained as a sport. It's trained by military specialists all over the world and it's goal is to be as destructive as possible.
This. Also BJJ has little capacity to defeat multiple opponents. Not to dog on it, I would lose easily to a BJJ practitioner. But Krav is no sport, not for a casual bar fight or fight between friends.
|
Did Judo from about the time I was 4-5. Started MMA a few years ago and had a few fights but didn't think it was for me but I really, really, really loved boxing and started doing it competitively for the last 3-4 years.
|
I would choose MMA with some dirty techniques over krav maga any time.. i think the sparring and competition aspects which could be utilized in MMA matches are much better preparation for real combat than learning krav maga moves only..
my friends who are in army and are taught some military combat moves totally sucked when we did sparring (with almost no rules) because they couldnt implement anything.. just my experience
To all BJJ practitioners: is there a BJJ style that is purely martial and has an answer to attacks from multiple people
there are techniques in BJJ which focus on dirty real combats and self-defense (these are mostly from japanese jiu jitsu) but it depends on the school how much it incorporates them into training process.
|
On May 30 2011 06:30 sTromSK wrote:I would choose MMA with some dirty techniques over krav maga any time.. i think the sparring and competition aspects which could be utilized in MMA matches are much better preparation for real combat than learning krav maga moves only.. my friends who are in army and are taught some military combat moves totally sucked when we did sparring (with almost no rules) because they couldnt implement anything.. just my experience Show nested quote +To all BJJ practitioners: is there a BJJ style that is purely martial and has an answer to attacks from multiple people there are techniques in BJJ which focus on dirty real combats and self-defense (these are mostly from japanese jiu jitsu) but it depends on the school how much it incorporates them into training process.
How long did they spend working on their techniques? Krav is also designed to be taught pretty quickly I thought? If you're experienced and a boss, it'd be hard for them to compete.
|
Sambo for like 5 years on and off. MMA every day for the past 3.5 years. Boxing and MT for like 3 years now. Done a lot of BJJ and greco-roman as well. MMA is my life.
Massive shout out to all BJJ practitioners! It's human chess at it's finest and I've met some of the most humble guys in my life from it.
|
On May 30 2011 06:30 sTromSK wrote:I would choose MMA with some dirty techniques over krav maga any time.. i think the sparring and competition aspects which could be utilized in MMA matches are much better preparation for real combat than learning krav maga moves only.. my friends who are in army and are taught some military combat moves totally sucked when we did sparring (with almost no rules) because they couldnt implement anything.. just my experience Show nested quote +To all BJJ practitioners: is there a BJJ style that is purely martial and has an answer to attacks from multiple people there are techniques in BJJ which focus on dirty real combats and self-defense (these are mostly from japanese jiu jitsu) but it depends on the school how much it incorporates them into training process.
Thing is, MMA takes a while to become good at (I'm not fond of it but I will admit that it is quite technical). Krav Maga is made so people can actually learn it from an instruction booklet in a matter of weeks. It's made to be both easy to learn and lethally effective. There's a huge focus on physical conditioning. People who train in Krav Maga don't train for the same reasons others train MMA. You cannot spend a few years training soldiers in MMA while most combat is done with rifles.. That's a huge waste of time and resources.
Combat is more than dirty tricks.. It's about disabling an attacker as quickly and effectively as possible. Preferably in one attack. There's no time for jabbing... Every second wasted is one you could get overwhelmed by your opponent's friends.
MMA is made for a competitive environment, Krav Maga is geared to soldiers.
Have you got any videos about that more martial BJJ? I'm actually really curious about it.
|
For the love of god I hope this doesn't turn in to a one martial art vs the other.
Or the famous MMA vs Krav Maga.
Or even do you think Fedor could beat Bruce Lee?
Can we just stick to BJJ please.
|
i dont want to generalize too much.. it always depends on each person and his ability to use particular martial art in a fight..
but 5 years of active training of MMA gives you more fighting experience than 5 years of training krav maga without sparring
the art i dont like very much is WT, its philosophy of being extremely efficient is great but it totally falls on the training methods and the art itself. You just cant learn "how to defend a takedown" when there is no wrestler in the gym who could actually take someone down and you cant knockout a boxer because youve never fought one.. (extreme examples but you get the point) WT and Krav Maga can prepare you mentally and you can have the advantage of knowing what to do and can really surprise even more skilled oponnent but if you dont manage to do it you will have a hard time..
in competitions you utilize only those techniques which really work and can win you the match, master them against an oponnent who actively tries to defend and counterattack..
|
On May 30 2011 06:42 Dr.Lettuce wrote:
For the love of god I hope this doesn't turn in to a one martial art vs the other.
Or the famous MMA vs Krav Maga.
Or even do you think Fedor could beat Bruce Lee?
Can we just stick to BJJ please.
If you read the posts, it's not about X vs Y.
We are merely highlighting the different origins of Krav Maga and MMA, and indirectly why it's useless comparing them.
|
Thing is, MMA takes a while to become good at (I'm not fond of it but I will admit that it is quite technical). Krav Maga is made so people can actually learn it from an instruction booklet in a matter of weeks. It's made to be both easy to learn and lethally effective. There's a huge focus on physical conditioning. People who train in Krav Maga don't train for the same reasons others train MMA. You cannot spend a few years training soldiers in MMA while most combat is done with rifles.. That's a huge waste of time and resources.
I agree with this
|
On May 30 2011 03:17 RA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 01:14 FallDownMarigold wrote:
BJJ and MMA club at school. Did BJJ officially at a gym for one summer, got a couple stripes on my white belt, lol. Belts mean a lot more in BJJ. Should take about 1-2 yrs to advance from white to blue if you are actually at a legit place with a legit instructor. Should take 10+ to get black if you devote yourself to it.
You know someone's full of shit when they tell you they got their blue belt 5 weeks in, or that they'll "be getting a black belt" in a "couple years" with BJJ. It's not like TKD where 12 year olds run around in black belts - I think that's good. Much more realistic and meaningful. There's also a major teaching component involved. It's not all about how many moves you know, how well you compete. It's also about how well you teach others. First of all, why do you need to insult TKD. Secondly, you really know alot about it juding by your last lines... /sarcasm Btw, for your knowledge, ITF is full contact. P.S. Kids in black belts is a rare thing, and those who have them have great technique and knowledge at that age. Imagine them at your age. P.P.S. Both vids are cool, but you have to train these things seriously for years and have a mindset to do it/risk your own life (and possibly not just yours) in such situation. Thing is - learning something like this from a vid is a naive, casual attitude which will land you in trouble. And doing something against a gun as a usual trainee... suicide.
?
1) Not insulting TKD. Best friend is 21 yrs old, third degree black belt in TKD. Been to many of his practices to watch and also to spar/grapple. Also have been to his competitions. I know about full contact sparring events, point sparring, etc. He has also taught me techniques.
2) Point about belts was to emphasize that I like the relative simplicity of BJJ belt rankings compared with what I feel is superfluous in TKD. White -> blue -> purple -> brown -> black. I prefer that to TKD full rainbow + degrees of ranks. You aren't allowed to complain about my personal preference/opinion about that. It's my personal taste, not yours. It's not an insult to TKD and I find it funny that you think such a thing. I prefer BJJ belt system to TKD belt system. End of story.
3) Not sure how high level your TKD school is, but my aforementioned friend's has plenty of young kids with black belts. He's had his since around 6th or 7th grade, maybe before. Cho's TKD, perhaps you've heard of him - he's one of the few true masters of TKD. It's one of his schools.
4) Regarding my "last lines", BJJ does heavily emphasize the teaching side of the sport, at least in a non-MMA, more art-oriented driven gym.
|
On May 30 2011 06:45 sTromSK wrote:
i dont want to generalize too much.. it always depends on each person and his ability to use particular martial art in a fight..
but 5 years of active training of MMA gives you more fighting experience than 5 years of training krav maga without sparring
the art i dont like very much is WT, its philosophy of being extremely efficient is great but it totally falls on the training methods and the art itself. You just cant learn "how to defend a takedown" when there is no wrestler in the gym who could actually take someone down and you cant knockout a boxer because youve never fought one.. (extreme examples but you get the point) WT and Krav Maga can prepare you mentally and you can have the advantage of knowing what to do and can really surprise even more skilled oponnent but if you dont manage to do it you will have a hard time..
in competitions you utilize only those techniques which really work and can win you the match, master them against an oponnent who actively tries to defend and counterattack..
Stop thinking in terms of competition when mentioning Krav Maga. It's not made for that. It's not made for takedowns, it's made for KILLING.
There's a huge difference in mindset between competition martial arts, or fighting sports, and, well, battlefield martial arts.
I've said it before, comparing the two is rather useless because of the different contexts they were founded in.
EDIT: it's kind of hard to spar in an art that actually has you lethally harm the attacker. It wouldn't be much fun, would it? 
|
On May 30 2011 06:42 Dr.Lettuce wrote:
For the love of god I hope this doesn't turn in to a one martial art vs the other.
Or the famous MMA vs Krav Maga.
Or even do you think Fedor could beat Bruce Lee?
Can we just stick to BJJ please.
or whatever your MA of choice is 
|
On May 30 2011 06:49 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 06:45 sTromSK wrote:
i dont want to generalize too much.. it always depends on each person and his ability to use particular martial art in a fight..
but 5 years of active training of MMA gives you more fighting experience than 5 years of training krav maga without sparring
the art i dont like very much is WT, its philosophy of being extremely efficient is great but it totally falls on the training methods and the art itself. You just cant learn "how to defend a takedown" when there is no wrestler in the gym who could actually take someone down and you cant knockout a boxer because youve never fought one.. (extreme examples but you get the point) WT and Krav Maga can prepare you mentally and you can have the advantage of knowing what to do and can really surprise even more skilled oponnent but if you dont manage to do it you will have a hard time..
in competitions you utilize only those techniques which really work and can win you the match, master them against an oponnent who actively tries to defend and counterattack.. Stop thinking in terms of competition when mentioning Krav Maga. It's not made for that. It's not made for takedowns, it's made for KILLING.
I was talking about what I think can prepare you better for the killing.. if you didnt break someones arm in the sparring (or forced the person to tap) the odds are you aint doing it against someone who actually defended this kind of attack many times before (similiar with other techniques). Therefore the killing isnt that simple..
of course there is a reason krav maga is taught in armies all over the world, was already mentioned. Context Im talking about is a little bit different
|
Taekwondo for 2 years, changed to Wingchun a few months ago, however I'm not sure if it's for me. There's very little sparring (at least at the start), it's not very athletic (at least in my club) and doesn't really train you to take hits, altho ur arms and fist do get tougher from all the bare-knuckled training we do. Might be trying Muay Thai later on. I love martial arts, always wanted to do it as a child but never found a good opportunity to
|
Have you got any videos about that more martial BJJ? I'm actually really curious about it.
BJJ Self Defense Techniques - Royce and Charles Gracie - check this book, you will get the idea..
|
Doing goju ryu karate myself. Hopefully advancing to 7th kyu on Tuesday. Wish me luck!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
