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Keep it civil guys.
Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans.
The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows
- On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive.
- photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis
- confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. |
On May 02 2011 17:09 BeaSteR wrote:
I dont understand why the Muslim community would be mad about not giving Usama a proper islamic burial. When he was alive he wasn't regarded as a "real" muslim but when he's dead he must be given a proper burial, where's the logic in that?
I suspect it's to prevent adding further fuel to the fire of Islamic extremism. Do we really need to add more reasons for them to despise the U.S.?
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On May 02 2011 17:11 MasterFischer wrote:
Osama Bin laden was a tyrant and a murderer of civilian and military personnel ALL over the world.
Not just americans, europeans, but his "own" people, muslims, iraqis, pakistanis, irans and so on.
He was a global terrorist, a fantatic, with psychotic visions of how to carry forth the will of his deity and his terrorist people.
His death is a blessing to the world, all across the world. Nobody like him deserves to be left alive, simply because he will never stop trying to upset the peace, order and civility of the human world.
I don't find death and chaos funny, but I i take a particular joy in knowing this dangerous man, is finally no longer on this earth. Alas, the world might JUST be a little.. just a little, more safer, for many many people.
I agree mostly and also take joy in this event. In the long run this is important and will probably weaken the spirit of the current and soon to be terrorists. In the short run the attacks may intensify, so I hope the intelligence forces will stop any terrorist display of anger.
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On May 02 2011 17:03 Sernyl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 16:49 Angra wrote:On May 02 2011 16:46 Aurocaido wrote:On May 02 2011 16:44 Dakota wrote:On May 02 2011 16:36 Willes wrote:
celebrating the death of 1 person: look how dumb you guys are, propaganda victims Yea, I sure hope no one celebrated Hitler's death, since he was only one person >_> Please stop comparing Osama to Hitler, there is no comparision whatsoever. lol yea thousands of lives, who cares about them. it's nothing near as impressive as hundreds of thousands that hitler killed so the people who died to osama are totally less important The money wasted on war,the potential research that could of been done with those resources,the possibility of improving your educational system , the people you could of fed,cured,helped,sheltered, the number of lives lost in both wars and in the hunt for your "boogeyman" ...This might sound insensitive ,but the number of people Osama killed pales in comparison to that.Don't know if he knew this would happen or if it was a fluke, but, and this will sound insensitive again, it was highly efficient. This might be a terrible analogy,but it's like sending all of your marines into a choke that has 6 sieged up tanks and trying to get passed them without stim to kill a single unit. The other person is right, you can't compare Osama to Hitler, yet you're right aswell , human life is equally valuable no matter whom took it away or the quantity that was lost.Still,it's funny when people forget the innocent human lives lost on the other side because of "targeting errors" or so called "war casualties".
Exactly,but hey,why send rockets into space when you can send a few missiles into a desert for the same price?
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On May 02 2011 17:12 Gonozal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 17:10 SolHeiM wrote:On May 02 2011 17:10 Gonozal wrote:
by the way - which court said bin laden deserves the death?
i mean - thats the way it usually goes. You have to go to court and you will be punished. Were was Bin ladens lawsuit? What court? The President of the United States. That court. The POTUS is definitly no judge. Did you never ever heared of separation of powers ?
This wasn't a legal decision, he was the the leader of an organization that openly declared war on the United States. War. That made it a military situation. The military does not need to hold a trial before killing someone in a raid. If they had taken him prisoner they would have had to have had a trial, but going in with intent to kill him and not take him prisoner is also a choice at their disposal.
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On May 02 2011 17:02 FaZe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 16:35 travis wrote:"Durrr, you're trolling." Well thought out retort guys. I said nothing that isn't true. If his death brings more peace to the world then that's great but I am not going to celebrate someone's death, let alone the death of someone I didn't know. On May 02 2011 16:35 Angra wrote:On May 02 2011 16:29 diehilde wrote:On May 02 2011 16:26 ryanAnger wrote:On May 02 2011 16:22 travis wrote:On May 02 2011 16:08 ryanAnger wrote:On May 02 2011 16:05 Drewx wrote:
Wow crazy times we live in. These scenes from the States look crazy would never expect to see anything like that where I live. If Australia were put into the exact circumstances that the US is currently, the reaction would be exactly the same. We aren't monsters for celebrating the death of a monster. ppl are monsters for celebrating any man's death, if that's what they are actually celebrating he was born a child, he had a mother and father and hopes and dreams. he had challenges and successes and love and fear and hate. that's reality. he was just a man like you or me and now he is dead. You're a fool if you actually feel this way. Sure, he was a man, just like you and me, but that is where the similarities end. He was human, but there was no humanity about him. I celebrate his death because he deserved to die, and that is undeniable. with the same reasoning people in the middle east celebrated the death of the 9/11 victims. I guess the difference is they are wrong and you are right, isnt it? What if the people seen celebrating had family or friends who died in the 9/11 attacks? Shouldn't they be happy then that their family/friends' killer was brought to justice? Or should they just take it with a straight face and show no emotion whatsoever, even though they had personal connections to deaths from a terrorist attack? Maybe you're the one who's being insensitive by telling other people how they should be reacting when they could potentially have a HUGE emotional investment in this whole thing, husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, children, loved friends. Ever think about that? Those people would be celebrating in the name of revenge. And while that's common, it's definitely on the undesirable side when it comes to behavior. Anyways, most of these people were not that emotionally invested. He was undeniably evil. But what made him that way? Reflecting on his life, we should mourn for the hate and anger that people inflict on one another that cause these actions. If he was brought up in a 1st world, developed country - I'm sure his life would have gone differently. Instead of striving for understanding and compassion, we cheer the death of our enemies. It's self destructive.
If he was brought up in a 1st world developed country? He came from an extremely wealthy family. The man was a mass murderer. He is the one responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
I celebrate him being killed. Why? Because he deserved it. Because I know people who lost family in 9/11. They have told be they can sleep just a little bit easier knowing he has been killed. That right there is enough for me to celebrate because those people have gone through hell and they never deserved it. This man brought so much pain to millions of people. Him being killed helps relieve it just a tiny bit.
So before you criticize someone for celebrating his death, imagine your brother being killed along with 1000s of others because of this man. Wouldn't you be happy that the man responsible for it all has been brought to justice?
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On May 02 2011 17:10 Gonozal wrote:
by the way - which court said bin laden deserves the death?
i mean - thats the way it usually goes. You have to go to court and you will be punished. Were was Bin ladens lawsuit?
User was warned for this post
It's like if your sister, brother, father, mother, friends, etc, were murdered. After a decade, the murderer was brought justice. It's closure for us Americans in one sense because we know that the man who has haunted us for a decade is gone for good.
People have to realize that if America could have apprehended Bin Laden alive and brought him to America, it would have definitely been done like that. We did the same (although different significance) with Saddam Hussein who was given a trial.
However, realize this:
-No American soldier was killed in the raid of Bin Laden's compound.
-The Pakistan government was not aware of the military action of America.
-There was a fire fight.
-No civilian was killed in the raid.
-The operation lasted under a hour.
If you think that we could have accomplished every one of the above while capturing Bin Laden, that would have been more ideal. Make an example out of him, give him a trial, and then sentence him to a public death. However, it was highly unlikely. Especially since the Pakistan government would have gotten involved if we tried to 'kidnap' Bin Laden.
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On May 02 2011 17:06 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 17:03 Hypemeup wrote:
People celebrate the death of bin Laden?
Talk about being petty. So I'm going to murder say your father. Perhaps your sister as well. Are you saying you wouldn't be happy if I get executed for what I did? I'm not necessarily celebrating the death of Osama bin Laden, but I do love it that he got done by US military. And I definitely understand those who do celebrate because they were most likely directly affected by what happened on 9/11.
If you were only a really small part of the problem, as bin Laden was at this point, I would not really feel any achievement in you getting killed(10 years after the murder as well). People are celebrating what? The fact that they got their revenge?
The problem is still there and if anything this will cause a knee-jerk reaction from some of the extremists. But hey lets celebrate the fact that we managed to get our revenge!
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On May 02 2011 17:14 BeaSteR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 17:11 MasterFischer wrote:
Osama Bin laden was a tyrant and a murderer of civilian and military personnel ALL over the world.
Not just americans, europeans, but his "own" people, muslims, iraqis, pakistanis, irans and so on.
He was a global terrorist, a fantatic, with psychotic visions of how to carry forth the will of his deity and his terrorist people.
His death is a blessing to the world, all across the world. Nobody like him deserves to be left alive, simply because he will never stop trying to upset the peace, order and civility of the human world.
I don't find death and chaos funny, but I i take a particular joy in knowing this dangerous man, is finally no longer on this earth. Alas, the world might JUST be a little.. just a little, more safer, for many many people.
I agree mostly and also take joy in this event. In the long run this is important and will probably weaken the spirit of the current and soon to be terrorists. In the short run the attacks may intensify, so I hope the intelligence forces will stop any terrorist display of anger.
if you really think that this is somehow important in the long run and will weaken the spirit of terrorists you are naive beyond words.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Also, I think in many cases we in the U.S. aren't celebrating the death of a man, we are celebrating closure.
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On May 02 2011 16:29 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 16:27 FireSA wrote:
I love the naivety that is people posting not to celebrate a person's death. People are celebrating the death of not only the person, but also what the person represents. Furthermore it is truly difficult not to be overjoyed when an individual who has caused mass murder, and is likely to persist in orchestrating such instances, is killed, especially in a firefight in which he participated. Don't be idiots, really, that is like being told off for celebrating the death of Hitler. There are people out there who find every human life to be sacred. And while they might be for one dying so that others may live, they wouldn't be "overjoyed" about it.
What you have just referred to is the idea of "sacrifice". What everyone is celebrating is not "sacrifice". It is removal of the primary direct cause of death. You're saying that there is only "sacrifice", which is false. Let me explain.
Your example leans more towards this analogy. If there was a person with a deadly contagious disease, we could kill the person and sacrifice his/her life in order for everyone else to survive. This would indeed make people sad and would not be a case where people should be "overjoyed" about it, though some may be, because the disease will not claim more lives. However, this is not the case with the Osama Bin Laden case.
The Bin Laden case is more of this analogy. He was the deadly disease, and we found a cure that would stop the deaths of innocents. Some people died as we tried to cure them, but now that we have, it's a reason to celebrate.
You may say that I am actually treating Bin Laden as not human. Though it is not really related to the current argument, in my opinion, Bin Laden lost his humanhood the moment he decided that terrorism and the murders of innocent civilians and non-combatants were justifiable to achieve his cause. I believe that when a man/woman slaughters innocents, that man/woman (e.g. Bin Laden, Hussein, or Hitler, or a serial murderer on the street) has forfeited their "humanity".
You also said (in a different post) that Bin Laden had a mother and father, dreams and hopes, etc. So what? Every animal in this world has a birth as well. A man is not defined by what he is born with, but rather by the CHOICES that he makes in his life. Without those choices, he is merely an an animal, having a mother and father.
And though you're apparently trying to sound high-minded by holding this lofty argument, it does little to explain your actual stance. So... do you in fact think that the death of Hitler was not celebration-worthy? Did you think that the death of Saddam Hussein should not have been celebrated by the millions who suffered under his rule?
If you think they are NOT celebration-worthy, then I personally would not want to talk/meet with you, because that means you value their lives as human lives, though they did not value others' lives as human lives. I would actually pity you in a way.
If you think they ARE celebration-worthy, then you are clear cut a hypocrite. I don't think I need to explain why.
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On May 02 2011 17:15 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 17:02 FaZe wrote:On May 02 2011 16:35 travis wrote:"Durrr, you're trolling." Well thought out retort guys. I said nothing that isn't true. If his death brings more peace to the world then that's great but I am not going to celebrate someone's death, let alone the death of someone I didn't know. On May 02 2011 16:35 Angra wrote:On May 02 2011 16:29 diehilde wrote:On May 02 2011 16:26 ryanAnger wrote:On May 02 2011 16:22 travis wrote:On May 02 2011 16:08 ryanAnger wrote:On May 02 2011 16:05 Drewx wrote:
Wow crazy times we live in. These scenes from the States look crazy would never expect to see anything like that where I live. If Australia were put into the exact circumstances that the US is currently, the reaction would be exactly the same. We aren't monsters for celebrating the death of a monster. ppl are monsters for celebrating any man's death, if that's what they are actually celebrating he was born a child, he had a mother and father and hopes and dreams. he had challenges and successes and love and fear and hate. that's reality. he was just a man like you or me and now he is dead. You're a fool if you actually feel this way. Sure, he was a man, just like you and me, but that is where the similarities end. He was human, but there was no humanity about him. I celebrate his death because he deserved to die, and that is undeniable. with the same reasoning people in the middle east celebrated the death of the 9/11 victims. I guess the difference is they are wrong and you are right, isnt it? What if the people seen celebrating had family or friends who died in the 9/11 attacks? Shouldn't they be happy then that their family/friends' killer was brought to justice? Or should they just take it with a straight face and show no emotion whatsoever, even though they had personal connections to deaths from a terrorist attack? Maybe you're the one who's being insensitive by telling other people how they should be reacting when they could potentially have a HUGE emotional investment in this whole thing, husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, children, loved friends. Ever think about that? Those people would be celebrating in the name of revenge. And while that's common, it's definitely on the undesirable side when it comes to behavior. Anyways, most of these people were not that emotionally invested. He was undeniably evil. But what made him that way? Reflecting on his life, we should mourn for the hate and anger that people inflict on one another that cause these actions. If he was brought up in a 1st world, developed country - I'm sure his life would have gone differently. Instead of striving for understanding and compassion, we cheer the death of our enemies. It's self destructive. If he was brought up in a 1st world developed country? He came from an extremely wealthy family. The man was a mass murderer. He is the one responsible for the 9/11 attacks. I celebrate him being killed. Why? Because he deserved it. Because I know people who lost family in 9/11. They have told be they can sleep just a little bit easier knowing he has been killed. That right there is enough for me to celebrate because those people have gone through hell and they never deserved it. This man brought so much pain to millions of people. Him being killed helps relieve it just a tiny bit. So before you criticize someone for celebrating his death, imagine your brother being killed along with 1000s of others because of this man. Wouldn't you be happy that the man responsible for it all has been brought to justice?
Killing Bin Laden would not bring my brother back to life. Nothing would change and I would not feel joy.
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Sigh, I feel a shit storm incoming. You can't kill the leader of a terrorist organization without there being repercussions. I hope I'm wrong.
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Actually just a national state can declare war. So osama bin laden couldnt do that at all.
And where is the problem with the court? I mean for that you got the tribunal in Den Haag and so on.
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On May 02 2011 17:16 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 17:14 BeaSteR wrote:On May 02 2011 17:11 MasterFischer wrote:
Osama Bin laden was a tyrant and a murderer of civilian and military personnel ALL over the world.
Not just americans, europeans, but his "own" people, muslims, iraqis, pakistanis, irans and so on.
He was a global terrorist, a fantatic, with psychotic visions of how to carry forth the will of his deity and his terrorist people.
His death is a blessing to the world, all across the world. Nobody like him deserves to be left alive, simply because he will never stop trying to upset the peace, order and civility of the human world.
I don't find death and chaos funny, but I i take a particular joy in knowing this dangerous man, is finally no longer on this earth. Alas, the world might JUST be a little.. just a little, more safer, for many many people.
I agree mostly and also take joy in this event. In the long run this is important and will probably weaken the spirit of the current and soon to be terrorists. In the short run the attacks may intensify, so I hope the intelligence forces will stop any terrorist display of anger. if you really think that this is somehow important in the long run and will weaken the spirit of terrorists you are naive beyond words.
This event obviously has impact on the world community and recruiting new terrorists will probably be harder. You seem to be sad Osama is dead, you little troll 
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On May 02 2011 17:17 Aurocaido wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 17:15 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 02 2011 17:02 FaZe wrote:On May 02 2011 16:35 travis wrote:"Durrr, you're trolling." Well thought out retort guys. I said nothing that isn't true. If his death brings more peace to the world then that's great but I am not going to celebrate someone's death, let alone the death of someone I didn't know. On May 02 2011 16:35 Angra wrote:On May 02 2011 16:29 diehilde wrote:On May 02 2011 16:26 ryanAnger wrote:On May 02 2011 16:22 travis wrote:On May 02 2011 16:08 ryanAnger wrote:On May 02 2011 16:05 Drewx wrote:
Wow crazy times we live in. These scenes from the States look crazy would never expect to see anything like that where I live. If Australia were put into the exact circumstances that the US is currently, the reaction would be exactly the same. We aren't monsters for celebrating the death of a monster. ppl are monsters for celebrating any man's death, if that's what they are actually celebrating he was born a child, he had a mother and father and hopes and dreams. he had challenges and successes and love and fear and hate. that's reality. he was just a man like you or me and now he is dead. You're a fool if you actually feel this way. Sure, he was a man, just like you and me, but that is where the similarities end. He was human, but there was no humanity about him. I celebrate his death because he deserved to die, and that is undeniable. with the same reasoning people in the middle east celebrated the death of the 9/11 victims. I guess the difference is they are wrong and you are right, isnt it? What if the people seen celebrating had family or friends who died in the 9/11 attacks? Shouldn't they be happy then that their family/friends' killer was brought to justice? Or should they just take it with a straight face and show no emotion whatsoever, even though they had personal connections to deaths from a terrorist attack? Maybe you're the one who's being insensitive by telling other people how they should be reacting when they could potentially have a HUGE emotional investment in this whole thing, husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, children, loved friends. Ever think about that? Those people would be celebrating in the name of revenge. And while that's common, it's definitely on the undesirable side when it comes to behavior. Anyways, most of these people were not that emotionally invested. He was undeniably evil. But what made him that way? Reflecting on his life, we should mourn for the hate and anger that people inflict on one another that cause these actions. If he was brought up in a 1st world, developed country - I'm sure his life would have gone differently. Instead of striving for understanding and compassion, we cheer the death of our enemies. It's self destructive. If he was brought up in a 1st world developed country? He came from an extremely wealthy family. The man was a mass murderer. He is the one responsible for the 9/11 attacks. I celebrate him being killed. Why? Because he deserved it. Because I know people who lost family in 9/11. They have told be they can sleep just a little bit easier knowing he has been killed. That right there is enough for me to celebrate because those people have gone through hell and they never deserved it. This man brought so much pain to millions of people. Him being killed helps relieve it just a tiny bit. So before you criticize someone for celebrating his death, imagine your brother being killed along with 1000s of others because of this man. Wouldn't you be happy that the man responsible for it all has been brought to justice? Killing Bin Laden would not bring my brother back to life. Nothing would change and I would not feel joy.
Then you are different from most people, in that most people have a sense of closure and happiness when the murderer of their loved ones is brought to justice. Get off your high horse.
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On May 02 2011 17:18 eLiE wrote:
Sigh, I feel a shit storm incoming. You can't kill the leader of a terrorist organization without there being repercussions. I hope I'm wrong.
You are way too paranoid.
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Btw, the image of dead Bin Laden is a few years old photoshop, please don't circulate it around as a proof of his death, please.
Proof:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On May 02 2011 16:38 DeepElemBlues wrote:
we can physically impose our will on terrorists far better than they can on us, their only hope is to hide and attack at their time and place of choosing. if we compromise their ability to hide, who cares how many recruits they get? a few horrible humiliating pants-shitting defeats would be the best way to take care of them, no one will want to join up then.
People don't join a terrorist group because they want to "win" in the short run, they join it because they belive in a greater goal and are willing do die for it. The NATO has been in Afghanistan for 10 years now, but the security situation there hasn't improved at all.
This is not because they haven't killed enough "terrorists"(I wouldn't consider all Taliban terrorists, but that's another story.), it's because for every terrorist they kill, there are like 5 16-year olds joining them. The main reason for that aren't even religious beliefs, it's just them growing up in an environment of violence and poverty.
There is also no denying that their anger against the USA is justified to some degree. The vast majority of the people in the arab-region is against terrorist acts, but they strongly disagree with America's foreign policy. And how can you blame them, with the US backing up corrupt regimes like the one of Mubarak or the Saudis? Bin Laden was a respected figure in many arab countries, not because of his acts of terror, but because he said things other arab leaders, who were supported by the US, didn't dare to say.
As long as the US (and the rest of the western world) doesn't work on this issues and actually starts caring about the people in those regions, islamic terrorism won't disappear by just using more force, it will only grow stronger.
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No big deal in my eyes, just another terrorist dead.
It won't change anything.
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On May 02 2011 17:10 Ownos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 16:59 Electric.Jesus wrote:
My first thought was: "The guy had it coming". You can't mess with the US and hope to get away with it. However, all the talk about "justice" made me vomit. Some people tend to forget that it was the US who trained and armed Osama and his cronies in the first place.
I can really understand the people who lost their loved ones in the 9/11 attacks being happy now. On the other hand, why do so many Americans consider assasination just? Isn't one of the core principles that made the US a great country a fair legal system? I would have loved to see Bin Laden before a court and receive a fair trial (the outcome of which would have been a life long sentence, at least), just so the US can prove that they are morally superior to a bunch of terrorists.
I also cannot help but think that Bin Ladens death will be utilized for propaganda on both sides. The US version will be: "Look how great and powerful the US is". The Al-quaeda version will be:"Osama is now a holy martyr, lets blow stuff up in his name, and take revenge on the bloody infidels". Nothing's gonna change, the bloodshed will go on. The US did that to help fight the Soviets. Love how people like you conveniently leave that out and try to play it off as if the US government helped fund Al-Queda.
But would you not agree that the US expoert terrorism (the words of the CIA red cell report, not mine) and that it sometimes comes back to bite them? Also I never said they funded Al-quaeda, merely that they provided Osama with the military and tactical knowledge he used to murder innocent civilians. On a side note, were there not reports that the US indeirectly funded Al-quaeda since they recived money from the Pakistani government which they - in turn - received from the US (ironically, fo fight terrorism)?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vqwlJ.png)
