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A Simple Math Problem? - Page 71

Forum Index > General Forum
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nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
April 08 2011 14:37 GMT
#1401
On April 08 2011 23:31 ztoa03 wrote:
As of the time of this post...the result of the first poll

288 [(1781)57%] and 2 [(1354)43%]

contradicts with the result of the third poll

1/(2*x) [(1415)68%] and (1/2)*x [(672)32%]


Right or wrong, it's common practise in a lot of places to see it as the first alternative when you are dealing with variables (x) but not if pure numbers. That's said, both problems are badly formated and any serious person would clarify with parentheses or some other mean.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
April 08 2011 14:41 GMT
#1402
On April 08 2011 23:31 ztoa03 wrote:
As of the time of this post...the result of the first poll

288 [(1781)57%] and 2 [(1354)43%]

contradicts with the result of the third poll

1/(2*x) [(1415)68%] and (1/2)*x [(672)32%]

Not necessarily because the first poll uses ÷ and the second poll uses / for division. It depends on what meaning people assign to these two signs. If they are identical, then the polls contradict each other. If they are not, they are fine. The thing is, ASCI notation of mathematic formulas is pretty unclear unless you add a whole bunch of brackets.

LaTeX this shit and be done with it.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
KlaCkoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1661 Posts
April 08 2011 14:41 GMT
#1403
My calculator makes the same interpretation of the notation as I do which is nice :p

1/2*3 = 1.5
1/2(3) = 0.166...

That's also how everyone I know i real life from students to lecturers would write it. (Yea 1/2(3) is obviously retarded but 1/2x is almost common.)

Voted 2, realise it's technically "wrong" but it's a misstake I am going to deliberately keep making since if I ever read 1/2x in real life odds are very big that the author indeed inteded to write 1/(2x)
"Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
Ssin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States88 Posts
April 08 2011 14:42 GMT
#1404
On April 08 2011 23:31 ztoa03 wrote:
As of the time of this post...the result of the first poll

288 [(1781)57%] and 2 [(1354)43%]

contradicts with the result of the third poll

1/(2*x) [(1415)68%] and (1/2)*x [(672)32%]


Honestly I believe that was the whole point of him starting this thread. Everyone who answers 288 should read 1/2x as (1/2)*x or (x/2), while everyone who votes as 1/2x = 1/(2x) would answer 2.

From a purely observational standpoint the question is intentionally left obscure. For those who are not vigilant in standing by mathematical rules, it is easy to see the question how you want to. Algebra is one of the hardest things to actually be consistent with without many, many years of practice, and this question is actually some proof of that.
Neo7
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States922 Posts
April 08 2011 14:43 GMT
#1405
Could it be safe to say that we could re-write the equestion as such:
48 × ½(9+3)

I mean, division is just multiplication using the reciprocal of the divisor. It also forces the previous explanation of using the distributive property to also receive the answer of 288.
It takes an idiot to do cool things.
NPF
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1635 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 14:47:05
April 08 2011 14:45 GMT
#1406
On April 08 2011 23:37 nihlon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 23:31 ztoa03 wrote:
As of the time of this post...the result of the first poll

288 [(1781)57%] and 2 [(1354)43%]

contradicts with the result of the third poll

1/(2*x) [(1415)68%] and (1/2)*x [(672)32%]


Right or wrong, it's common practise in a lot of places to see it as the first alternative when you are dealing with variables (x) but not if pure numbers. That's said, both problems are badly formated and any serious person would clarify with parentheses or some other mean.


I thought the whole point of the convention of PEDMAS (parenthese, exponent, division/multiplication (same priority), addition/substraction (same priority).

The whole point of the convention is clarity. The fact that most people aren't aware of the convention and have developped bad habits interprating certain situations is there fault. There is no error in his formating, it's just people are use to see a situation which is wrong, but due to habit they don't reflect that there view is wrong and there wrong interpratation of a wrong format happens to work for them since of some unknown code.

There is no fault in the writing, and I know of no other convention in mathematics beside PEDMAS. If there is a graduate math student *cough* Day[9]*cough* that could inform me that in some country there is a different convention I'd be glad to hear it. But if not I recognize that the global convention is PEDMAS and people just don't know it, or follow it to a T.
NPF
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1635 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 14:46:46
April 08 2011 14:46 GMT
#1407
delete this edit intodouble post
theSkareqro
Profile Joined June 2010
Singapore102 Posts
April 08 2011 14:47 GMT
#1408
48÷2(9+3)

iirc, bracket do not disappear even after solving
so it becomes

48÷2(12)

and as you guys mentioned BODMAS, bracket still has priority so,

48÷24 = 2

this is how my thought process is, tbh i doubted my own answer seeing so many people saying 288 but I'm adamant answer is 2
gaheris
Profile Joined October 2010
Ireland12 Posts
April 08 2011 14:48 GMT
#1409
In reality the answer is that that it is gibberish. Like a badly punctuated sentence there are multiple ways of "fixing it" with your own punctuation to make it make sense.
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3548 Posts
April 08 2011 14:49 GMT
#1410
The problem is stupid, because no one uses the division sign the problem used - it implies that the 2(9 + 3) is in brackets, even though its not.
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 14:53:38
April 08 2011 14:50 GMT
#1411
Bedmas

Brackets = the 9 + 3 = 12

Then it becomes 48 / 2 (12)

The 12 in the bracket is the same thing as 2 x 12

Division before multiplication.

48/2(12)
24(12)

288

EZPZ, grade 12 highschool student

Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
pileopoop
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada317 Posts
April 08 2011 14:50 GMT
#1412
On April 08 2011 23:47 theSkareqro wrote:
48÷2(9+3)

iirc, bracket do not disappear even after solving
so it becomes

48÷2(12)

and as you guys mentioned BODMAS, bracket still has priority so,

48÷24 = 2

this is how my thought process is, tbh i doubted my own answer seeing so many people saying 288 but I'm adamant answer is 2


inside the bracket man, not outside
Arnstein
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway3381 Posts
April 08 2011 14:51 GMT
#1413
Why is 10^0 = 1? I just don't understand it. :S
rsol in response to the dragoon voice being heard in SCII: dragoon ai reaches new lows: wanders into wrong game
Ferocious Falcon
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia16 Posts
April 08 2011 14:55 GMT
#1414
Becuase if you have 10^5 and divide it by 10^5 you would get 1 still which would be 10^0
Espelz
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany833 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 14:58:02
April 08 2011 14:56 GMT
#1415
On April 08 2011 23:51 Arnstein wrote:
Why is 10^0 = 1? I just don't understand it. :S


Its basically per definition. There is not much to understand beside that it makes a lot of sense to define it that way

If you want to have an explanation WHY it makes sense, just tell me to do so, i´d have to look up quite some stuff to write it in english, so I´m not that motivated to do so when theres a possibility than nobody cares anyway

Edith : post above me is quite a good argument / a good way to understand it.
"Its not over till Fantasy gg´s" - Sayle
Arnstein
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway3381 Posts
April 08 2011 14:59 GMT
#1416
It's okay, I can ask a professor at my university

However, if anyone wants to help me, I would really appreciate it if someone could explain how to do "New definitions 2" on Khan Academy. There's no video to explain it :S I don't even understand the signs
rsol in response to the dragoon voice being heard in SCII: dragoon ai reaches new lows: wanders into wrong game
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
April 08 2011 15:01 GMT
#1417
On April 08 2011 22:44 lofung wrote:
this is a horribly defined question. as a math major i refuse to answer until further clarifaction.


I guess after 70 pages somebody has finally won the thread
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
puttputt
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada240 Posts
April 08 2011 15:01 GMT
#1418
The best part of this thread are the people that are so convinced that the answer is 2.
from saskatchewan? saskgamers.com
Krallin
Profile Joined July 2010
France431 Posts
April 08 2011 15:03 GMT
#1419
On April 08 2011 23:51 Arnstein wrote:
Why is 10^0 = 1? I just don't understand it. :S


Basically because a integer power is a multiplication and the neutral element for the multiplication is 1.
Or because 10^0 = exp(0*ln(10))=exp(0)=1, if you use real power definitions.

More troubling is 0^0's definition, but that is another debate : D
Vorenius
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark1979 Posts
April 08 2011 15:05 GMT
#1420
On April 08 2011 23:45 NPF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 23:37 nihlon wrote:
On April 08 2011 23:31 ztoa03 wrote:
As of the time of this post...the result of the first poll

288 [(1781)57%] and 2 [(1354)43%]

contradicts with the result of the third poll

1/(2*x) [(1415)68%] and (1/2)*x [(672)32%]


Right or wrong, it's common practise in a lot of places to see it as the first alternative when you are dealing with variables (x) but not if pure numbers. That's said, both problems are badly formated and any serious person would clarify with parentheses or some other mean.


I thought the whole point of the convention of PEDMAS (parenthese, exponent, division/multiplication (same priority), addition/substraction (same priority).

The whole point of the convention is clarity. The fact that most people aren't aware of the convention and have developped bad habits interprating certain situations is there fault. There is no error in his formating, it's just people are use to see a situation which is wrong, but due to habit they don't reflect that there view is wrong and there wrong interpratation of a wrong format happens to work for them since of some unknown code.

There is no fault in the writing, and I know of no other convention in mathematics beside PEDMAS. If there is a graduate math student *cough* Day[9]*cough* that could inform me that in some country there is a different convention I'd be glad to hear it. But if not I recognize that the global convention is PEDMAS and people just don't know it, or follow it to a T.

Berkeley professor of mathmatics Hung-Hsi Wu disagrees with you:
"designed to trap an unsuspecting person by phrasing it in terms of a set of unreasonably convoluted rules"

This is a case of bad notation. In fact no one in their right mind would ever use the symbol "÷" for anything (I had to copy it from the OP since I have no clue how to make one)


But all that aside, it seems many people got it wrong for complete all reasons. There seems to be a trend of NAs assuming division takes priority over multiplication. I'll assume it has to with that PEDMAS thing. Where I'm from we were just taught the order of operations without any silly mnemonic and that worked out just fine. Especially since PEDMAS is kinda flawed since it's P>E>(DM)>(AS) and not P>E>D>M>A>S
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