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A Simple Math Problem? - Page 58

Forum Index > General Forum
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chonkyfire
Profile Joined December 2010
United States451 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 06:58:06
April 08 2011 06:57 GMT
#1141
Simplify 16 ÷ 2[8 – 3(4 – 2)] + 1.


The confusing part in the above calculation is how "16 divided by 2[2] + 1" (in the line marked with the double-star) becomes "16 divided by 4 + 1", instead of "8 times by 2 + 1". That's because, even though multiplication and division are at the same level (so the left-to-right rule should apply), parentheses outrank division, so the first 2 goes with the [2], rather than with the "16 divided by". That is, multiplication that is indicated by placement against parentheses (or brackets, etc) is "stronger" than "regular" multiplication. Typesetting the entire problem in a graphing calculator verifies this hierarchy:


Just when I thought that I saw I ghost, I realized that it was the endo smoke
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
April 08 2011 06:57 GMT
#1142
On April 08 2011 15:55 Annoying wrote:
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm

check example 5 and it's explanation!

thread?



Note that different software will process this differently; even different models of Texas Instruments graphing calculators will process this differently.


Like has been said much earlier.... it's a matter of semantics. Both are completely legitimate answers depending on the standard being used. A lot of computer programs use the technically wrong answers, which is why when you program you tend to abuse parentheticals...
Annoying
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada34 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 06:59:06
April 08 2011 06:58 GMT
#1143
yup it's time 288 ppl start backing down, or at least stop acting almighty in here
Cutlery
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway565 Posts
April 08 2011 06:58 GMT
#1144
On April 08 2011 15:55 Annoying wrote:
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm

check example 5 and it's explanation!

thread?


This problem has proper brackets and isn't written ambiguously. Had the OP written 48*(9+3) ÷ 2, any ambiguety, and hence any attempt to have a little fun, would be lost.
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
April 08 2011 06:58 GMT
#1145
On April 08 2011 15:55 Akari Takai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 15:54 mcc wrote:
On April 08 2011 15:47 BluePanther wrote:
On April 08 2011 15:45 Robstickle wrote:
Out of curiosity.

How would most people here interpret 3^3^3?

Is it 3^27 or 27^3?


27^3


Not that there's any difference...

?? 3^27 >>>>>>> 27^3


Exactly.

27^3 = 27*27*27 = 19,683
3^27 = 3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3.....*3*3 = 7,625,597,484,987

HUUUUUUUUUUGE difference.


Yes, I've made it clear I made a mistake... sheesh. some poeple don't let that die, do they?
Brandish
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States339 Posts
April 08 2011 06:58 GMT
#1146
clearly, there are two types of people in this world.
288, and 2
KobeLobster
Profile Joined November 2010
70 Posts
April 08 2011 06:59 GMT
#1147
If you just do the brackets first (like always) you get
48/2x12=?
By convention, you do multiplication/division (since they are basically reciprocals) from left to right giving 288.

You need to move left to right because without it, it will just be pure chaos.

Ex: 40/5x10/2
Going left to right gives 40. Going in some random order yields some different number. So hence everyone should follow convention.
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
April 08 2011 06:59 GMT
#1148
On April 08 2011 15:58 Brandish wrote:
clearly, there are two types of people in this world.
288, and 2


clearly, there are 10 types of people in this world.
288, and 2
GizmoPT
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal3040 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 07:01:02
April 08 2011 07:00 GMT
#1149
On April 08 2011 15:57 chonkyfire wrote:
Simplify 16 ÷ 2[8 – 3(4 – 2)] + 1.


Show nested quote +
The confusing part in the above calculation is how "16 divided by 2[2] + 1" (in the line marked with the double-star) becomes "16 divided by 4 + 1", instead of "8 times by 2 + 1". That's because, even though multiplication and division are at the same level (so the left-to-right rule should apply), parentheses outrank division, so the first 2 goes with the [2], rather than with the "16 divided by". That is, multiplication that is indicated by placement against parentheses (or brackets, etc) is "stronger" than "regular" multiplication. Typesetting the entire problem in a graphing calculator verifies this hierarchy:




for me its 5
Snipers Promod & Micro Arena Creator in SC2 Arcade - Portuguese Community Admin for SC2, HotS and Overwatch - Ex-Portugal SC2 Team Manager, Ex- Copenhagen Wolves and Grow uP Gaming Manager in SC2. Just Playing games now!
Annoying
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada34 Posts
April 08 2011 07:00 GMT
#1150
On April 08 2011 15:58 Cutlery wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 15:55 Annoying wrote:
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm

check example 5 and it's explanation!

thread?


This problem has proper brackets and isn't written ambiguously. Had the OP written 48*(9+3) ÷ 2, any ambiguety, and hence any attempt to have a little fun, would be lost.


The 2 problems seem very similar to me.
Kar98
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia924 Posts
April 08 2011 07:00 GMT
#1151
I've always been taught to do the parenthesis first and I got 2. It's written poorly and I can see why people think different
Cutlery
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway565 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 07:04:03
April 08 2011 07:02 GMT
#1152
actually just nvm. ive had enough
duk3
Profile Joined September 2010
United States807 Posts
April 08 2011 07:04 GMT
#1153
The problems can be interpreted in various ways, leading to all answers being essentially correct.
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
April 08 2011 07:04 GMT
#1154
Oops I did it wrong, should certainly be 288. The parentheses only take priority if it's around the parts in question, in this case the 2 and the 9+3.
In front of the parentheses there's implicitly a multiplication sign.

However, the interpreted answer is more a question of laziness than correctness.

I would read the 1/2x as 1/(2x), because I'm lazy and I don't want to write 1/(2x). I wouldn't do this for the first example, first of all because the division operator ÷ is used very clearly as a binary operator of divide object on left (subject to order of operations) by object on right. Therefore, I would assume we are using very precise operational syntax/logic on the numbers, so the parentheses would strongly suggest multiplication.
In other words, ÷ means we can't be lazy.

Whereas / is seen more as a fraction. Even moreso when we're using variables, since we technically we would have to write * before every variable, and it would be a huge hassle to write out 1 / ( 2 * x ). You could argue parentheses have the laziness exception, but it's nowhere near as bad as with variables.
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
April 08 2011 07:04 GMT
#1155
On April 08 2011 15:51 chonkyfire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 15:50 BluePanther wrote:
On April 08 2011 15:49 chonkyfire wrote:
On April 08 2011 15:47 BluePanther wrote:
On April 08 2011 15:46 chonkyfire wrote:
On April 08 2011 15:43 BluePanther wrote:
It's both, depending on the notation standard you are using.

Basic algebra rules will give 288.

Basic computer languages will give 2.

Was that clear enough?



wouldn't the correct way to express it in algebra be

48/2(9+3)=

48/2(12)=

48/24=2

???


no, it's strict order of operations, and therefore 288.


yeah strict order

2(12) comes before 48/2 in 48/2(12)

P for... parenthesis


i'm pretty sure parenthesis refers to whats INSIDE parenthesis.



I really don't know anymore.

if 2(9+3)=24 then 2 is apart of the parenthesis.

If you do 18 + 6 = 24


Both answers are correct in some notation. Basically depends if you think OP expression is 48/(2*(9+3)) or (48/2)*(9+3). And contrary to what some will tell you you can choose freely as OP did not specify notation. (48/2)*(9+3) you get in standard notation , whereas 48/(2*(9+3)) in more informal notation.
chonkyfire
Profile Joined December 2010
United States451 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 07:06:12
April 08 2011 07:05 GMT
#1156
On April 08 2011 16:04 duk3 wrote:
The problems can be interpreted in various ways, leading to all answers being essentially correct.


I don't know.

I think the only correct way to look at it is

2(9+3) is always 24

48/2(9+3) = 48/24

so the question is meant to trick you and should always just be 48/24 =

Just when I thought that I saw I ghost, I realized that it was the endo smoke
Tommie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
China658 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 07:08:04
April 08 2011 07:06 GMT
#1157
It's just plain bad notation and its not a math problem. Its a calculation problem. If I were a teacher and someone would write down such an equation I would tell him to rewrite with more parenthesis so its more clear to the viewer. If you thinnk this is math you are dumb.
I am also wondering what all the people study. Studying to become a construction worker is not engineering/science.
Being a ho doesn't automatically make you "immoral" or a bad person, but it does make you a ho.
Daozzt
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1263 Posts
April 08 2011 07:07 GMT
#1158
It's beyond me how this thread has gone on for 58 pages, but after reading the past couple pages, it's pretty laughable.

I hope people realize that

48÷2(9+3)

is the same as

48 ÷ 2 * 12

No, the 2 being next to a ( does not mean it is "connected" to it.


The answer's 288. It's as clear as day, no ambiguity at all.
Annoying
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada34 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 07:09:04
April 08 2011 07:08 GMT
#1159
will link 1 more time for guy above.. last example, read the explanation and come again.

http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm

check out the nice drawing too
chonkyfire
Profile Joined December 2010
United States451 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 07:10:49
April 08 2011 07:08 GMT
#1160
On April 08 2011 16:07 Daozzt wrote:
It's beyond me how this thread has gone on for 58 pages, but after reading the past couple pages, it's pretty laughable.

I hope people realize that

48÷2(9+3)

is the same as

48 ÷ 2 * 12

No, the 2 being next to a ( does not mean it is "connected" to it.


The answer's 288. It's as clear as day, no ambiguity at all.



edit:nvm but i was getting at what's the difference between 2(9+3) and 9+3? If there the 2 isn't involved then it's 12, but 2(9+3) is always 24.

but it's not 288
Just when I thought that I saw I ghost, I realized that it was the endo smoke
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