|
Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
On November 21 2015 00:36 Yuljan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 00:19 Redox wrote:On November 20 2015 20:00 zeo wrote:On November 20 2015 07:30 xDaunt wrote:
The EU needs to grow some balls and take care of its own problems. If the refugee crisis stemming from the Syrian Civil War is such a big problem, then they should do something about it. Funny how if they didn't feel they had the need to do something in the first place there wouldn't even be a refugee problem now. Lol wat? First off what did the EU do in Syria? And how would not doing that whatever have achieved the impossible and stopped the Syrian civil war? Not arming islamic rebels/bribing army units would have helped end this civil war pretty quickly.
You got any sources for that? What I read about was mainly Turkish, then Saudi and Qatar support. Then later US. Some British intelligence involvement with arms coming from Libya, and that was 2 and half years after it started. Most EU countries were and are very much against any arms shipments to Syrian rebels.
Apart from that it is extremely naive to believe that this civil war could so easily be stopped. With the general tensions in the region it is almost impossible to imagine that a Sunni majority would peacefully continue to accept being dominated by a Shia (or Alawi) minority and that they could not get hold of any weapons.
|
On November 21 2015 00:46 AngryMag wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 00:36 Yuljan wrote:On November 21 2015 00:19 Redox wrote:On November 20 2015 20:00 zeo wrote:On November 20 2015 07:30 xDaunt wrote:
The EU needs to grow some balls and take care of its own problems. If the refugee crisis stemming from the Syrian Civil War is such a big problem, then they should do something about it. Funny how if they didn't feel they had the need to do something in the first place there wouldn't even be a refugee problem now. Lol wat? First off what did the EU do in Syria? And how would not doing that whatever have achieved the impossible and stopped the Syrian civil war? Not arming islamic rebels/bribing army units would have helped end this civil war pretty quickly. I vividly remember our great media presenting us the FSA as moderate rebels who need and deserve western support. They quickly changed their tune after a liveleak video of the FSA commander Chalid al Hamad popped up in which he cut out the heart of a dead regime soldier and ate it under frantic allah akbaring of his men. This made them stop their propaganda for around a year, unfortunately the damage was done by then, the nutjobs were armed and ready to turn Syria into rubble. Nowadays we are back at the same fairytale. In our media the FSA are the moderates again. They eventually got a bit more media savy by now.and don't put videos of their crazyness on the internet for everybody to see.
Well you just have to learn to deal with it.. this are the new moderates:
Syrian Democratic Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces
New Syrian Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Syrian_Army
|
On November 21 2015 01:03 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 00:36 Yuljan wrote:On November 21 2015 00:19 Redox wrote:On November 20 2015 20:00 zeo wrote:On November 20 2015 07:30 xDaunt wrote:
The EU needs to grow some balls and take care of its own problems. If the refugee crisis stemming from the Syrian Civil War is such a big problem, then they should do something about it. Funny how if they didn't feel they had the need to do something in the first place there wouldn't even be a refugee problem now. Lol wat? First off what did the EU do in Syria? And how would not doing that whatever have achieved the impossible and stopped the Syrian civil war? Not arming islamic rebels/bribing army units would have helped end this civil war pretty quickly. You got any sources for that? What I read about was mainly Turkish, then Saudi and Oman support. Then later US. Some British intelligence involvement with arms coming from Libya, and that was 2 and half years after it started. Most EU countries were and are very much against any arms shipments to Syrian rebels. Apart from that it is extremely naive to believe that this civil war could so easily be stopped. With the general tensions in the region it is almost impossible to imagine that a Sunni majority would peacefully continue to accept being dominated by a Shia (or Alawi) minority and that they could not get hold of any weapons.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/waffenlieferungen-nach-syrien-die-rebellen-ruesten-auf-a-907689.html in German.
The major responsibility falls to the US of course but please do not pretend that the EU is all innocent especially after the mess France and Italy created in Lybia.
Btw wait and see how our new Peshmerga friends will rule their country in ten years. I still remember a few videos were they beat a girl to death with 40 people for dating a sunni boy. They will surely become the pillar of freedom and democracy in the middle east  .
The civil war could have been stopped like always with overwhelming force by the regime and lots of dead civilians but since our politicians are living in some kind of dreamworld they are not ready to make the hard unpopular choices.
|
On November 21 2015 05:44 Yuljan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 01:03 Redox wrote:On November 21 2015 00:36 Yuljan wrote:On November 21 2015 00:19 Redox wrote:On November 20 2015 20:00 zeo wrote:On November 20 2015 07:30 xDaunt wrote:
The EU needs to grow some balls and take care of its own problems. If the refugee crisis stemming from the Syrian Civil War is such a big problem, then they should do something about it. Funny how if they didn't feel they had the need to do something in the first place there wouldn't even be a refugee problem now. Lol wat? First off what did the EU do in Syria? And how would not doing that whatever have achieved the impossible and stopped the Syrian civil war? Not arming islamic rebels/bribing army units would have helped end this civil war pretty quickly. You got any sources for that? What I read about was mainly Turkish, then Saudi and Oman support. Then later US. Some British intelligence involvement with arms coming from Libya, and that was 2 and half years after it started. Most EU countries were and are very much against any arms shipments to Syrian rebels. Apart from that it is extremely naive to believe that this civil war could so easily be stopped. With the general tensions in the region it is almost impossible to imagine that a Sunni majority would peacefully continue to accept being dominated by a Shia (or Alawi) minority and that they could not get hold of any weapons. http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/waffenlieferungen-nach-syrien-die-rebellen-ruesten-auf-a-907689.html in German. The major responsibility falls to the US of course but please do not pretend that the EU is all innocent especially after the mess France and Italy created in Lybia. Btw wait and see how our new Peshmerga friends will rule their country in ten years. I still remember a few videos were they beat a girl to death with 40 people for dating a sunni boy. They will surely become the pillar of freedom and democracy in the middle east . The civil war could have been stopped like always with overwhelming force by the regime and lots of dead civilians but since our politicians are living in some kind of dreamworld they are not ready to make the hard unpopular choices.
Well your source says that there will be no weapons from Germany and that Qatar and SA have already begun shipping weapons and then US will probably follow. So pretty much just what I have been saying.
Your Peshmerga sentence makes no sense. Girls being beaten happens in that region in any case and has nothing to do with foreign weapon supplies.
And to me your idea about the regime pacifying the rebels sounds more naive to me than what usually comes from our politicians. Just look at the timeline of the war, when weapon help for rebels started and in what a bad situation SAA was already then. Or maybe look at Iraq how the government despite massive foreign support is not able to end the Sunni rebellion although the Sunni are even a minority there in contrast to Syria.
|
On November 21 2015 05:50 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 05:44 Yuljan wrote:On November 21 2015 01:03 Redox wrote:On November 21 2015 00:36 Yuljan wrote:On November 21 2015 00:19 Redox wrote:On November 20 2015 20:00 zeo wrote:On November 20 2015 07:30 xDaunt wrote:
The EU needs to grow some balls and take care of its own problems. If the refugee crisis stemming from the Syrian Civil War is such a big problem, then they should do something about it. Funny how if they didn't feel they had the need to do something in the first place there wouldn't even be a refugee problem now. Lol wat? First off what did the EU do in Syria? And how would not doing that whatever have achieved the impossible and stopped the Syrian civil war? Not arming islamic rebels/bribing army units would have helped end this civil war pretty quickly. You got any sources for that? What I read about was mainly Turkish, then Saudi and Oman support. Then later US. Some British intelligence involvement with arms coming from Libya, and that was 2 and half years after it started. Most EU countries were and are very much against any arms shipments to Syrian rebels. Apart from that it is extremely naive to believe that this civil war could so easily be stopped. With the general tensions in the region it is almost impossible to imagine that a Sunni majority would peacefully continue to accept being dominated by a Shia (or Alawi) minority and that they could not get hold of any weapons. http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/waffenlieferungen-nach-syrien-die-rebellen-ruesten-auf-a-907689.html in German. The major responsibility falls to the US of course but please do not pretend that the EU is all innocent especially after the mess France and Italy created in Lybia. Btw wait and see how our new Peshmerga friends will rule their country in ten years. I still remember a few videos were they beat a girl to death with 40 people for dating a sunni boy. They will surely become the pillar of freedom and democracy in the middle east . The civil war could have been stopped like always with overwhelming force by the regime and lots of dead civilians but since our politicians are living in some kind of dreamworld they are not ready to make the hard unpopular choices. Well your source says that there will be no weapons from Germany and that Qatar and SA have already begun shipping weapons and then US will probably follow. So pretty much just what I have been saying. Your Peshmerga sentence makes no sense. Girls being beaten happens in that region in any case and has nothing to do with foreign weapon supplies. And to me your idea about the regime pacifying the rebels sounds more naive to me than what usually comes from our politicians. Just look at the timeline of the war, when weapon help for rebels started and in what a bad situation SAA was already then. Or maybe look at Iraq how the government despite massive foreign support is not able to end the Sunni rebellion although the Sunni are even a minority there in contrast to Syria.
Way to pick whatever sentence you like. Do a quick google search if you would like later articles. The consensus from the western + sunni countries (incl. Germany!) = give weapons/aid. Here is a list: http://usuncut.com/world/syrian-refugees-to-weapons/. Probably not accurate since its written by a pro refugee nutjob but should be enough to refute your claim that only the US/arabs sent weapons.
Please specify next time if the EU only consists of Germany. Peshmerga is the same as the rest and again as previously with the "moderate" rebels people dont realize that we are creating another enemy that will destabilize the region even more. Seems like the propaganda machine is working pretty well on you though but I dont expect much critical thinking from Germans given the pro refugee crowd overhere.
Also funny thing is that you compare the situation to iraq. That is the prime example of western involvement creating armed insurrections.
A highly armed sunni minority pretty much ruled iraq without any threatening rebellions until and outside force destroyed the army and armed the shiite population that forced the (heavily armed) sunnis into a corner.
Now we have a shiite sect (alawite) minority controlling a sunni majority through a loyal army and the sunni population is getting armed by foreign states. If they did not get the arms the rebellion would have failed.
The only reason the rebellion even started was because the sunnis counted on foreign support as they had seen in lybia.
|
On November 21 2015 01:03 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 00:36 Yuljan wrote:On November 21 2015 00:19 Redox wrote:On November 20 2015 20:00 zeo wrote:On November 20 2015 07:30 xDaunt wrote:
The EU needs to grow some balls and take care of its own problems. If the refugee crisis stemming from the Syrian Civil War is such a big problem, then they should do something about it. Funny how if they didn't feel they had the need to do something in the first place there wouldn't even be a refugee problem now. Lol wat? First off what did the EU do in Syria? And how would not doing that whatever have achieved the impossible and stopped the Syrian civil war? Not arming islamic rebels/bribing army units would have helped end this civil war pretty quickly. You got any sources for that? What I read about was mainly Turkish, then Saudi and Qatar support. Then later US. Some British intelligence involvement with arms coming from Libya, and that was 2 and half years after it started. Most EU countries were and are very much against any arms shipments to Syrian rebels. Apart from that it is extremely naive to believe that this civil war could so easily be stopped. With the general tensions in the region it is almost impossible to imagine that a Sunni majority would peacefully continue to accept being dominated by a Shia (or Alawi) minority and that they could not get hold of any weapons.
![[image loading]](http://s12.postimg.org/lfu81f2fx/gfdpng.png)
Jesus, where do you think Turkey get those weapons to arm soontobeisis guys. Sultan played a gateway role as he is doing now with the refugee crisis.
|
Turkey just shot down a Russian jet. O_O
|
On November 24 2015 17:51 heliusx wrote:
Turkey just shot down a Russian jet. O_O
Yup, seems like those two aren't gonna be friends in the next days. Let's hope it doesn't escalate.
|
Turkish fighter jets shot down a warplane near the Syrian border after it violated Turkey's airspace on Tuesday, a Turkish military official said, but the nationality of the downed aircraft was not immediately clear.
Both Russia and its ally, Syria's government, have carried out strikes in the area. A Syrian military source said the reported downing was being investigated and Russia’s defense ministry was not immediately available for comment.
Turkish F16s warned the jet over the airspace violations before shooting it down, the military official told Reuters.
Footage from private broadcaster Haberturk TV showed a warplane going down in flames in a woodland area, a long plume of smoke trailing behind it. The plane went down in area known by Turks as "Turkmen Mountain" in northern Syria near the Turkish border, Haberturk said.
Separate footage from Turkey's Anadolu Agency showed two pilots parachuting out of the jet before it crashed.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights monitoring group said the warplane crashed in a mountainous area in the northern countryside of Latakia province and it was not immediately clear whether it was an aircraft from the Russian or Syrian air force.
The fate of the crew was unknown, the Observatory said, adding that there had been aerial bombardment in the area earlier, where pro-government forces have been battling insurgents on the ground.
Turkey called this week for a U.N. Security Council meeting to discuss attacks on Turkmens in neighboring Syria, and last week Ankara summoned the Russian ambassador to protest the bombing of their villages.
Ankara has traditionally expressed solidarity with Syrian Turkmens, who are Syrians of Turkish descent.
Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has spoken with the chief of military staff and the foreign minister about the developments on the Syrian border, the prime minister's office said in a statement, without mentioning the downed jet.
He has ordered the foreign ministry to consult with NATO, the United Nations and related countries on the latest developments, his office said.
www.reuters.com
The warplane shot down by Turkey near the Syrian border on Tuesday was a Russian-made SU-24, Turkish presidential sources said, adding it was downed in line with Turkey's rules of engagement after violating Ankara's airspace.
President Tayyip Erdogan has been briefed by the head of the military and will talk to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, the sources said.
Russia's defense ministry said the downed fighter jet was Russian and did not violate Turkish airspace, the RIA news agency reported.
www.reuters.com
For some sources about it.
|
The question now is how will Russia respond? They cant resolve to only talking, that will make them look weak. And one thing Putin cant afford is looking weak. I am actually very curious what course of action will Russians take. Lets hope we wont enter escalation spiral.
|
On November 24 2015 18:57 Silvanel wrote:
The question now is how will Russia respond? They cant resolve to only talking, that will make them look weak. And one thing Putin cant afford is looking weak. I am actually very curious what course of action will Russians take. Lets hope we wont enter escalation spiral.
They're probably just going to ignore it. I doubt Russia can afford to let this kind of conflict escalate with Turkey, especially since the pilots made it out alive and since the warplane did trespass into Turkish airspace (which has happened plenty of times and Turkey probably had enough of those shenanigans).
|
We'll see how this plays out since Turkey is part of NATO. It's not like nobody expected this, curious what will happen to the pilots as they managed to eject.
|
It was bound to happen with Russia's history of challenging airspace. I'm mostly surprised Turkey actually pulled the trigger.
And yes I think any response from Russia will be symbolic at best.
|
On November 21 2015 03:51 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 00:46 AngryMag wrote:On November 21 2015 00:36 Yuljan wrote:On November 21 2015 00:19 Redox wrote:On November 20 2015 20:00 zeo wrote:On November 20 2015 07:30 xDaunt wrote:
The EU needs to grow some balls and take care of its own problems. If the refugee crisis stemming from the Syrian Civil War is such a big problem, then they should do something about it. Funny how if they didn't feel they had the need to do something in the first place there wouldn't even be a refugee problem now. Lol wat? First off what did the EU do in Syria? And how would not doing that whatever have achieved the impossible and stopped the Syrian civil war? Not arming islamic rebels/bribing army units would have helped end this civil war pretty quickly. I vividly remember our great media presenting us the FSA as moderate rebels who need and deserve western support. They quickly changed their tune after a liveleak video of the FSA commander Chalid al Hamad popped up in which he cut out the heart of a dead regime soldier and ate it under frantic allah akbaring of his men. This made them stop their propaganda for around a year, unfortunately the damage was done by then, the nutjobs were armed and ready to turn Syria into rubble. Nowadays we are back at the same fairytale. In our media the FSA are the moderates again. They eventually got a bit more media savy by now.and don't put videos of their crazyness on the internet for everybody to see. Well you just have to learn to deal with it.. this are the new moderates: Syrian Democratic Forceshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_ForcesNew Syrian Armyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Syrian_Army
Trying to keep track of new groups or existing groups is impossible, SDF are an alliance of groups while the NSA and NSF are smaller units that operate within SDF. Beyond convoluted.
|
Turkey is nuts. Even if the Russian plane entered Turkish airspace - which we don't know - shooting it down is a gross overreaction and intentional escalation. Are they trying to start a world war?
|
On November 24 2015 19:47 Scorch wrote:
Turkey is nuts. Even if the Russian plane entered Turkish airspace - which we don't know - shooting it down is a gross overreaction and intentional escalation. Are they trying to start a world war?
Russia has been violating others airspace for years, it was only a matter of time until someone had enough and actually shot them down. Which, if they actually did violate is entirely justified.
|
On November 24 2015 19:47 Scorch wrote:
Turkey is nuts. Even if the Russian plane entered Turkish airspace - which we don't know - shooting it down is a gross overreaction and intentional escalation. Are they trying to start a world war?
If the plane has been identified as a Russian plane on a mission to Syria before being taken down, yes. Turkey claims to have shot an unidentified fighter/bomber that wasn't responding to identification requests, in Turkish territory, coming from a Syrian border where Turkey is technically already engaged in the conflict (supporting Turkish populations in Syria).
There is room for interpretation both ways, but shooting those planes is what air patrolls are designed to do (well ... that and preventing them from entering in the first place because of air patrolls).
|
|
|
What the hell? Why shoot it down? They had 2 F-16s chasing it.
|
World War III is trending... That should help calm things down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
