On November 24 2015 21:59 Maenander wrote: From all accounts it seems like the Turkish military only waited for a chance to down a Russian fighter.
Let's be realistic, no other NATO country would have shot down a Russian plane over a minor violation like that.
Seems like Erdogan is not amused that all of his schemes for Syria went to hell.
In a way I think Putin and Erdogan are very much alike. Both strong leaders who are leading their country with a dictatorish streak. Its not about success or failure in Syria, its about intimidation and appearing strong. Russia has been pushing countries for years by violating airspace with fighters and bombers in northern Europe. They now tried to do it to someone who will not just sit back and be slightly annoyed. Turkey will hit back when confronted with a bully.
If England started to repeatedly flying bombers over Russia do you think Putin would ignore it or do you think he would shoot one down at some point as well?
You do know that violating air space is a tactic Turkey constantly uses right?
It's so common for them to enter our air space and our planes to lift off and intercept them that it doesn't even reach the news most of the time.
This event is beyond the normal framework of fighting against terrorism. Of course our military is doing heroic work against terrorism... But the loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way. Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey.
Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey. This is obvious. They are fighting terrorists in the northern areas around Latakia, where militants are located, mainly people who originated in Russia, and they were pursuing their direct duty, to make sure these people do not return to Russia. These are people who are clearly international terrorists.
Taking into account that we signed an agreement on deconflicting with the US, and as we know Turkey was among the ones that has joined the US coalition. Since Isis has such huge resources of hundreds of millions and billions of dollars coming from illicit oil sales, and they are protected by the armed forces of other states, then it’s clear why they are so brazen, why they are killing people, why they are carrying out terrorist attacks throughout the world including in the heart of Europe.
We will analyse everything, and today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations. We have always treated Turkey as a friendly state. I don’t know who was interested in what happened today, certainly not us. And instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours.
This event is beyond the normal framework of fighting against terrorism. Of course our military is doing heroic work against terrorism... But the loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way. Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey. Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey. This is obvious. They are fighting terrorists in the northern areas around Latakia, where militants are located, mainly people who originated in Russia, and they were pursuing their direct duty, to make sure these people do not return to Russia. These are people who are clearly international terrorists. Taking into account that we signed an agreement on deconflicting with the US, and as we know Turkey was among the ones that has joined the US coalition. Since Isis has such huge resources of hundreds of millions and billions of dollars coming from illicit oil sales, and they are protected by the armed forces of other states, then it’s clear why they are so brazen, why they are killing people, why they are carrying out terrorist attacks throughout the world including in the heart of Europe. We will analyse everything, and today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations. We have always treated Turkey as a friendly state. I don’t know who was interested in what happened today, certainly not us. And instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours.
We have always been friendly to Turkey, except when we repeatedly violate their airspace...
Reuters is reporting that both Fencer pilots were shot dead while parachuting down by Turkmen rebels.
And also, there is a report of one of the Russian search and rescue helicopters were hit by an anti-tank missile(Most likely TOW) launched by an FSA group operating in the Latakia region. No status of the helicopter though but Russia did send out helicopters to search for the downed Fencer pilots.
I guess it was expected since they were bombing the area in support of ground operations, taking them alive would've been a bigger hit to Russia though.
There is footage of rebels shooting at a pilot parachuting down but I can't confirm it.
One of the dead pilots, graphic warning.
"A video sent to Reuters by a Syrian rebel group on Tuesday appeared to show a Russian pilot immobile and badly wounded on the ground, and an official from the group said he was dead.
"A Russian pilot," a voice is heard saying as a group of men gather around him. "God is great," a voice is heard saying.
The video was sent to Reuters by a rebel group operating in the northwestern area of Syria, where groups including Free Syrian Army are operating but Islamic State has no known presence.
The official from the group, who declined to be named for security reasons, told Reuters the pilot was dead. He did not mention a second Russian pilot who was in the plane."
On November 24 2015 23:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I guess this is how WWIII begins and in 5 years time the world will be a nuclear wasteland. Nice knowing you all.
Is it just me that gets annoyed when people start shouting WW3 when stuff like this happens, it happens all over social media and other websites but it only helps escalate the problem and cause panic to the people naive enough to believe it.
Not saying nothing will happen of course, will most likely have effect on Turkish / Russian relations but WW3? pls.
On November 24 2015 23:41 Reaps wrote: Is it just me that gets annoyed when people start shouting WW3 when stuff like this happens, it happens all over social media and other websites but it only helps escalate the problem and cause panic to the people naive enough to believe it.
Not saying nothing will happen of course, will most likely have effect on Turkish / Russian relations but WW3? pls.
No it's not only you. That's some shit people say when they don't understand that humans prefer to continue existing on Earth.
On November 24 2015 23:41 Reaps wrote: Is it just me that gets annoyed when people start shouting WW3 when stuff like this happens, it happens all over social media and other websites but it only helps escalate the problem and cause panic to the people naive enough to believe it.
Not saying nothing will happen of course, will most likely have effect on Turkish / Russian relations but WW3? pls.
No it's not only you. That's some shit people say when they don't understand that humans prefer to continue existing on Earth.
Ye that's my point, I don't think they realise what WW3 would mean in a nuclear age.
Footage of one of the search & rescue helicopters hit by a TOW missile launched by units of the 1st Coastal Division of the FSA. They are a vetted group that has access to TOW missiles as shown.
Footage of the Su-24 going down by the 1st Coastal Division
On November 24 2015 23:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I guess this is how WWIII begins and in 5 years time the world will be a nuclear wasteland. Nice knowing you all.
Or a lot of stern words.
Because Putin is just going to forgive two dead pilots... I think Turkey is going to have a major Kurd problem over the next few years.
On November 24 2015 23:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I guess this is how WWIII begins and in 5 years time the world will be a nuclear wasteland. Nice knowing you all.
Or a lot of stern words.
Because Putin is just going to forgive two dead pilots... I think Turkey is going to have a major Kurd problem over the next few years.
He forgave an entire plane full of dead Russian citizens so why not?
On November 24 2015 23:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I guess this is how WWIII begins and in 5 years time the world will be a nuclear wasteland. Nice knowing you all.
Or a lot of stern words.
Because Putin is just going to forgive two dead pilots... I think Turkey is going to have a major Kurd problem over the next few years.
Remind me again what the soviets did when pakistan shot down their jets?
Even with NATO backing that's such a ballsy move. Putin's not gonna do anything to a member state, but it definitely stands to change things in Syria. Turkey is an increasingly unpredictable actor and I think its true interests and identity in the region are largely ulterior.
Well... can't say I'm surprised. This is coming from the country that cuts diplomatic ties with any nation that acknowledges the Armenian Genocide. They're neither an ally nor business partner and were it not for their strategic positioning, no one would want to have anything to do with them. Sooner or later they were bound to do something stupid enough to gain attention.
On November 24 2015 23:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I guess this is how WWIII begins and in 5 years time the world will be a nuclear wasteland. Nice knowing you all.
Or a lot of stern words.
Because Putin is just going to forgive two dead pilots... I think Turkey is going to have a major Kurd problem over the next few years.
He forgave an entire plane full of dead Russian citizens so why not?
Did he? You must have missed the part where Russia doubled its bombing campaign against ISIS and deployed strategic bombers.
On November 25 2015 00:02 LegalLord wrote: Well... can't say I'm surprised. This is coming from the country that cuts diplomatic ties with any nation that acknowledges the Armenian Genocide. They're neither an ally nor business partner and were it not for their strategic positioning, no one would want to have anything to do with them. Sooner or later they were bound to do something stupid enough to gain attention.
Do something stupid. Like violate a countries airspace again after that country told you it would shoot you down next time you did it.
On November 24 2015 23:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I guess this is how WWIII begins and in 5 years time the world will be a nuclear wasteland. Nice knowing you all.
Or a lot of stern words.
Because Putin is just going to forgive two dead pilots... I think Turkey is going to have a major Kurd problem over the next few years.
He forgave an entire plane full of dead Russian citizens so why not?
Did he? You must have missed the part where Russia doubled its bombing campaign against ISIS and deployed strategic bombers.
You missed the part where he stalled and stalled until he couldn't deny it any more.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1Fco4BD.jpg?1)
