On November 17 2015 09:41 Emnjay808 wrote: Interesting links, unfortunately I dont have enough time to go over them all.
Currently Im trying to find out the self-interests Russia had when they started to intervene. Which, according to Wiki started after 30 September 2015. Hopefully I can tie their reasons to imperialism cause thats what the underlying purpose of my paper is about.
In the end I hope to make a connection of imperialism to the on-going crisis of the Syrian refugees.
they don't want to lose influence and an ally in the middle east.
On November 17 2015 09:41 Emnjay808 wrote: Interesting links, unfortunately I dont have enough time to go over them all.
Currently Im trying to find out the self-interests Russia had when they started to intervene. Which, according to Wiki started after 30 September 2015. Hopefully I can tie their reasons to imperialism cause thats what the underlying purpose of my paper is about.
In the end I hope to make a connection of imperialism to the on-going crisis of the Syrian refugees.
And you think Russian imperialism is the cause of the refugee crisis in the Middle East?
Out of curiousity why are you writing a paper on a subject you know literally nothing about?
On November 17 2015 09:41 Emnjay808 wrote: Interesting links, unfortunately I dont have enough time to go over them all.
Currently Im trying to find out the self-interests Russia had when they started to intervene. Which, according to Wiki started after 30 September 2015. Hopefully I can tie their reasons to imperialism cause thats what the underlying purpose of my paper is about.
In the end I hope to make a connection of imperialism to the on-going crisis of the Syrian refugees.
And you think Russian imperialism is the cause of the refugee crisis in the Middle East?
Out of curiousity why are you writing a paper on a subject you know literally nothing about?
Im gonna use Russian intervention as ONE of the reasons for the ongoing refugee crisis. No matter how loosely based that may be. I just need something to link imperialism to my topic.
From what I gathered, I know the root of the refugee crisis is cause of the civil war and that the civil war erupted cause of protests for government reformation.
Im writing a paper I know literally nothing about because this is what was assigned to me by my teacher.
It's all about imperialism but not Russia's. It's super easy to link to imperialism but pretty hard to link to Russia given they only really got involved diplomatically when the West was considering intervening further to fuck shit up. The West started digging and then kept digging, all Russia did was refused to give us a bigger spade back when we were doing that "red line" nonsense.
Yeah Russia only grew bold when their dictator was under siege and even then they didnt do it openly till just recently because they sensed weakness. To be honest Putin and co have alot of pride and still consider themselves a super power even if we think different, so after getting whaled on for 2 decades they got alot of scorning to make up for. Now that the US is shitting itself theyre crawling out from where ever they've been licking their wounds. Its kinda funny if you think about how just sitting around and doing very little let Russia get themselves back in the game and then all of a sudden they got big and bold real fast, first Chrimea and no one could do shit, now Syria and no one can do shit.
On November 17 2015 05:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Their fuel literally fuels everything around the region. Irrigation, cooking, transportation. Including, get this, the other Syrian militias which the West used to support. Also those "ISIS oil trucks"? They aren't actually controlled by ISIS. They are civilians buying and selling the fuel, bringing fuel to places that need it. Basically, once you bomb ISIS fuel, everybody is fucked in Syria, not just ISIS.
So what has changed now? Do we really just NOW want to actually hurt ISIS capabilities?
I know everyone, including fucking Assad, buys oil off ISIS. One more reason to shut down their main source of income.
I wonder what consequences this serves to everyone in Syria, not just ISIS.
edit:
On November 17 2015 05:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Their fuel literally fuels everything around the region. Irrigation, cooking, transportation. Including, get this, the other Syrian militias which the West used to support. Also those "ISIS oil trucks"? They aren't actually controlled by ISIS. They are civilians buying and selling the fuel, bringing fuel to places that need it. Basically, once you bomb ISIS fuel, everybody is fucked in Syria, not just ISIS.
Ah, yes. Found the post. Its been a very long day, forgive me lol.
On November 17 2015 05:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Their fuel literally fuels everything around the region. Irrigation, cooking, transportation. Including, get this, the other Syrian militias which the West used to support. Also those "ISIS oil trucks"? They aren't actually controlled by ISIS. They are civilians buying and selling the fuel, bringing fuel to places that need it. Basically, once you bomb ISIS fuel, everybody is fucked in Syria, not just ISIS.
So what has changed now? Do we really just NOW want to actually hurt ISIS capabilities?
I know everyone, including fucking Assad, buys oil off ISIS. One more reason to shut down their main source of income.
What has changed? After the Paris shootings the western world has decided that we don't need to care about civilian casualties now.
Btw, you seem to be under the misconception that only the military relies on oil. That isn't true. Just as we in the West basically rely on oil to grow and transport and cook food, so does everybody in Syria regardless of who is currently controlling the land. A lot of people are going to die of starvation unless they are driven to join the military of the oil producer.
On November 17 2015 05:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Their fuel literally fuels everything around the region. Irrigation, cooking, transportation. Including, get this, the other Syrian militias which the West used to support. Also those "ISIS oil trucks"? They aren't actually controlled by ISIS. They are civilians buying and selling the fuel, bringing fuel to places that need it. Basically, once you bomb ISIS fuel, everybody is fucked in Syria, not just ISIS.
Ah, yes. Found the post. Its been a very long day, forgive me lol.
Well the article says crude oil trucks, not fuel trucks. So I am not sure how directly this is linked to the gasoline that people in Syria use. Probably some of the oil is refined locally but I could also imagine a lot of the gasoline is imported.
Thinking about it, if the crude can not be exported even more of it will have to be refined locally and used there right?
If I recall there's a lot of refinaries in Syria. Both the crude oil and refined oil are transported by civilians and the refinaries themselves are operated by civilians as well. I don't know where your assumption comes from that oil is being imported into Syria, a refined oil exporting country. Where do you think the oil that people in inland Syria uses come from? It certainly isn't imported in, and if there are any imported in, it'll be through the coast where the Assad regime/Syrian government will be recieving it all. Anyhow, there's been a few articles written over the years (years!), I'm sure you can find some and read up on why they never had bombed the oil supply before.
On November 18 2015 00:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Anyhow, there's been a few articles written over the years (years!), I'm sure you can find some and read up on why they never had bombed the oil supply before.
On November 18 2015 00:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote: If I recall there's a lot of refinaries in Syria. Both the crude oil and refined oil are transported by civilians and the refinaries themselves are operated by civilians as well. I don't know where your assumption comes from that oil is being imported into Syria, a refined oil exporting country.
I did not assume they were importing oil. I was wondering if they were importing gasoline. My whole post was about that difference.
Anyhow if they have the capabilites to refine the oil themselves I do not see how they would run out of gas if crude oil exports are stopped. If anything that would mean there would have to refine more of it domestically.
On November 18 2015 00:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Anyhow, there's been a few articles written over the years (years!), I'm sure you can find some and read up on why they never had bombed the oil supply before.
On November 18 2015 00:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote: If I recall there's a lot of refinaries in Syria. Both the crude oil and refined oil are transported by civilians and the refinaries themselves are operated by civilians as well. I don't know where your assumption comes from that oil is being imported into Syria, a refined oil exporting country.
I did not assume they were importing oil. I was wondering if they were importing gasoline. My whole post was about that difference.
Anyhow if they have the capabilites to refine the oil themselves I do not see how they would run out of gas if crude oil exports are stopped. If anything that would mean there would have to refine more of it domestically.
I don't understand your lack of understanding. You don't understand that gasoline/petrol is a refined oil? Crude oil goes into refinery. Refinery refines the crude oil. It's literally in the name. Refined oil comes out. Gasoline is refined oil. No crude oil = no gasoline. Syria is probably importing small amounts of refined oil, but you can be sure that the vast majority of crude oil and refined oil will be produced from inside Syria itself, seeing as how they got plenty of oil pumps and refinaries within the country.
On November 18 2015 00:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Anyhow, there's been a few articles written over the years (years!), I'm sure you can find some and read up on why they never had bombed the oil supply before.
On November 18 2015 00:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote: If I recall there's a lot of refinaries in Syria. Both the crude oil and refined oil are transported by civilians and the refinaries themselves are operated by civilians as well. I don't know where your assumption comes from that oil is being imported into Syria, a refined oil exporting country.
I did not assume they were importing oil. I was wondering if they were importing gasoline. My whole post was about that difference.
Anyhow if they have the capabilites to refine the oil themselves I do not see how they would run out of gas if crude oil exports are stopped. If anything that would mean there would have to refine more of it domestically.
I don't understand your lack of understanding. You don't understand that gasoline/petrol is a refined oil? Crude oil goes into refinery. Refinery refines the crude oil. It's literally in the name. Refined oil comes out. Gasoline is refined oil. No crude oil = no gasoline. Syria is probably importing small amounts of refined oil, but you can be sure that the vast majority of crude oil and refined oil will be produced from inside Syria itself, seeing as how they got plenty of oil pumps and refinaries within the country.
Man the extent of your misreading of my posts is getting really annoying. I was merely pointing out that the article with the destroyed trucks said it was crude oil that was destroyed and not fuel like you said. Because you know crude oil is not refined oil and is not fuel. In fact from all the sources I read ISIS oil exports are almost entirely made up of crude oil and not refined oil. I also read ISIS refining of oil for internal consumption is mainly done in Iraq with the oil produced there.
Additionally I made the point (that you continued to ignore) that a halt of ISIS crude oil exports does not mean there will be no more fuel in their area like you seem to claim. Because on ISIS territory are capabilities to refine oil and produce fuel.
On November 17 2015 22:18 Redox wrote: Well the article says crude oil trucks, not fuel trucks. So I am not sure how directly this is linked to the gasoline that people in Syria use.
So you understand that the source of gasoline that people in Syria use is crude oil from ISIS? Please tell me that you do. You are undergoing some strange mental gymnastics to convince youself that crude oil isn't carried inside these fuel trucks.
On November 18 2015 02:32 Redox wrote: a halt of ISIS crude oil exports does not mean there will be no more fuel in their area like you seem to claim. Because on ISIS territory are capabilities to refine oil and produce fuel.
Ok I guess you don't understand. These air strikes are directed right at ISIS ability to sell oil directly from the oil fields. They don't bother themselves with where the oil goes, that's why the oil gets sold off to the very people they are fighting against. Who exactly do you think ISIS is selling the oil to? ISIS isn't Saudi Arabia with massive port infrastructure selling oil all around the world. ISIS is selling oil to civilians who buy the oil and transport them to refinaries who sell the oil to other civilians who bring them to other civilians. If ISIS can't sell their crude oil, there will be no more fuel in their area.
Jeez, I just don't understand your mental contorsions. You seem very possessed of the idea that refineries can produce petrol without the ability to import a source of crude oil.
On November 17 2015 22:18 Redox wrote: Well the article says crude oil trucks, not fuel trucks. So I am not sure how directly this is linked to the gasoline that people in Syria use.
So you understand that the source of gasoline that people in Syria use is crude oil from ISIS? Please tell me that you do. You are undergoing some strange mental gymnastics to convince youself that crude oil isn't carried inside these fuel trucks.
On November 18 2015 02:32 Redox wrote: a halt of ISIS crude oil exports does not mean there will be no more fuel in their area like you seem to claim. Because on ISIS territory are capabilities to refine oil and produce fuel.
Ok I guess you don't understand. These air strikes are directed right at ISIS ability to sell oil directly from the oil fields. They don't bother themselves with where the oil goes, that's why the oil gets sold off to the very people they are fighting against. Who exactly do you think ISIS is selling the oil to? ISIS isn't Saudi Arabia with massive port infrastructure selling oil all around the world. ISIS is selling oil to civilians who buy the oil and transport them to refinaries who sell the oil to other civilians who bring them to other civilians. If ISIS can't sell their crude oil, there will be no more fuel in their area.
Jeez, I just don't understand your mental contorsions. You seem very possessed of the idea that refineries can produce petrol without the ability to import a source of crude oil.
You can explain things without being a dick about it. We're trying to keep this thread civil, and a civil tone of discourse helps.
Aye, I was expecting a comment about Protoss being EZmode or something the way things were going. This has been a good thread and newcomers keep things fresh.
You have to remember that Russia is looking to regrow the influence they lost over the late 80s and through the 90s.
On November 17 2015 07:15 Emnjay808 wrote: So far my research got me as far as knowing that the Civil unrest originated from the Arab Spring. But Im having trouble what the underlying problem was within Syria itself for the protests to escalate to the point of casualties.
The normal process is that the Western backed dictator will keep the population pretty repressed in exchange for guns, wealth and trade. Most of the North African dictators were in that model. However Syria was more Russian backed than Western backed and due to a long history of conflict with Israel had a fairly effective military and access to chemical weapons etc.
The Arab Spring happened and a bunch of revolts took place throughout the Arab world. The West felt that their sponsored dictators gunning down civilians with the guns we sold them would be embarrassing so we tried to back the rebels and turn them into the new dictators so we could go back to business as normal. In most of the Arab world this worked to a certain extent. In Syria the dictator had the means to fight the revolts and the independence to not give a fuck. This started the Syrian crisis. To make matters worse the Iraqi resistance, which had a lot of American weapons and tacit government support within Iraq, got involved due to Syrian weakness. We spent a few years propping up the rebels the way we had backed them in other Arab countries but without the same success due to Syrian strength and an unwillingness by the West to use military force on Syria, in part due to the chemical weapon stockpiles potentially aimed at Israel. Shit got worse and worse and we ended up in bed with some awful people due to being against Assad. Shit is now very bad.
You seem to disregard there have been attacks to regime forces before famous Assad gunning down civilians things escalate. This was pure example of white washing a totally failed policy that caused thousands of deaths around the globe. People were saying exactly the same things when Baghdad being bombed down until these years that even republicans unwillingly admit we destroyed Iraq. Dont take my post offensive, i believe up to 10-15 years we will be writing similar things for Syria too, by the time we wont feel remorse or responsible for.
More accurate cover would be "The West realized Arab people are seeking their deserved rights and about to bring down their design, so they faked a role with their aid and shaped everything in a way that arab people will only blame the puppets not the puppeteers.This fake role reveals itself as EU countries relentlessly try to evade immigrants but their gun-aid numbers are above thousands. I mean come on, they let France to kill Qaddafi and bring down Libya, it could be again a coalition or US only, but there is clear imperialistic humiliation in it. What were they trying to remind? Why Turkey was headquarters for Syrian opposition for like 6-7 years already before they decided to switch armed struggle. This whole new allied vs axis game over Arab lands expanded badly and hurt civilians in great numbers as British imperialism stepping down and their design collapses.
So for a paper, i would start with British&French imperialism and its damage to Arab world, then jump to Saudi Imperialism what openly aims to kill non-sunnis and Iran, hurting again Arab world. Then US imperialism vs Russian and all of these combining into side effects what we call today as ISIS or AL QAEDA or Taliban etc, any religious militia. Then new imperials appeared thanks to their imperialistic goals stack with bigger imperials, Turkey and Iran. Turkey was hostile to Syria historically and because of Syrian support to PKK. Iran filled the gap in Iraq when US left and took-over. The more USA drops bombs to Arab land, the more Turkish construction companies get money rich. Iran backed central Iraq, Turkey backed Northern Iraq. Iran backed Assad, Turkey backed opposition. West couldn't kill Assad because Russia, China, Iran said they are serious about him. They openly declared any military attempt that directly targeting Assad will be countered. His army was never that powerful, it would take only 2 hours to reach Damascus indeed. When Syrian revolt ends, new government will be either Russian sided or Western sided. It seems impossible without Baathism so they need to divide Syria like Iraq to keep their interest alive and fed. Allied Kurds and Arabs are a go. At this point Turks are pissed off, when Merkel tried to take control of Ukrainian crisis US was pissed off. When Obama had a deal with Iran, Saudis and Israel were pissed off. You cant satisfy everyone in this game while you end up in bed with almost all of them. Absurd and shameful..
EPT
