EPTIt is far too early to talk about a truth commission, like the ones that worked well to uncover what had happened in South Africa during the darkest age of Apartheid. But I think the need here is more likely to be akin to the Nuremberg trials, but without the death penalty. Just let them rot in jail together with the Balkan war perpetrators of war crimes, Charles Taylor, and other despicable human beings.
Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 310
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
|
Acrofales
Spain18195 Posts
It is far too early to talk about a truth commission, like the ones that worked well to uncover what had happened in South Africa during the darkest age of Apartheid. But I think the need here is more likely to be akin to the Nuremberg trials, but without the death penalty. Just let them rot in jail together with the Balkan war perpetrators of war crimes, Charles Taylor, and other despicable human beings. | ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22211 Posts
huh....and russia's brought in anti-air capabilities....presumably against the IS air force?!?! have a feeling it's only a matter of time before theres a misunderstanding between nato and russia over syria.. | ||
|
Cazimirbzh
334 Posts
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/19/us-russia-in-talks-rival-military-operations-syria They already know that it will happen :p @zatic I like the study you posted especially "Public Defectors by Country and Date of Publication" 21 syrian / 58 Maybe time to change the name of the topic "civil wars" doesnt seem to apply anymore | ||
|
Sermokala
United States14077 Posts
On September 21 2015 14:32 AssyrianKing wrote: It wasn't so much communist but it was a single party state, and what it basically was is you couldn't as a muslim go up to a christian and say stuff you and stuff Jesus because the law was so enforced that you wouldn't get away with it lightly. This is why many people actually enjoyed the saddam era... Straight after 2003 it got worse for the minorities People may have liked stability over freedom but that doesn't mean that people enjoyed life under saddam. The many crimes the Saddam regime committed weren't enjoyed by people. The kurds welcomed the freedom that was given to them and the Sunni people that formed the dictators party only were a fifth of the population. The majority of the country were suppressed at the best of times and the sectarian violence that came afterwords is proof of that. If people really enjoyed the saddam era they wouldn't have had a problem working with eachother to form a country afterwords. | ||
|
Cazimirbzh
334 Posts
If people really enjoyed the saddam era they wouldn't have had a problem working with eachother to form a country afterwords. I dont understand this statement. | ||
|
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On September 19 2015 19:13 Cazimirbzh wrote: @mahrgell Nobel prize is about concrete achivements. Mathematics are linked to physics in that way. Math may not be consider as science (platonic vs natural). Depends on your definition of science. IN USA, communism and socialism are considered almost the same. why ? Because US had relatively little "moderate" socialism. Marx used the term socialism for what he was aiming for. Social democracy of the European sort has a presence in the US, but is almost never talked about by name. Social welfare programs tend to defend themselves by talking more about what they do than what they are. Labels for the welfare state are almost exclusively used as attack lines. Descriptions of things it does "helps the poor/sick/elderly" are quite popular. | ||
|
Cazimirbzh
334 Posts
It was rethorical question but your answer illustrates well my point. The truth is always in the eyes of the beholder. Notions and definitions are always limited to our own knowledge. What about the new deal ? The International Workers' Day is about an US event. McCarthyism wiped out your historic records too ? Your answer is distorted. Marx used the term socialism for what he was aiming for. I dont understand what you mean. | ||
|
Sermokala
United States14077 Posts
On September 22 2015 03:07 Cazimirbzh wrote: @Sermokala I dont understand this statement. The civil war came beacuse the shiite majority that got into power after the elections refused to work with any former sunni officials which incidentally included the entire army and almost all of their leaders. This was Beacuse those leaders were in power under Sadam. The trial and execution of the dictator was entirely done by shiite people and the hanging itself was filmed in its entirety and used as a recruiting tool. | ||
|
Cazimirbzh
334 Posts
the entire army and almost all of their leaders. The iraqi army has been dissolved on may 23 2003, almost 2 years before the elections.And during the 2005 elections, political daily violence was already occuring because sunni pple were already out of it. That's still doesnt explain your statement. | ||
|
Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On September 22 2015 04:55 Sermokala wrote: The civil war came beacuse the shiite majority that got into power after the elections refused to work with any former sunni officials which incidentally included the entire army and almost all of their leaders. This was Beacuse those leaders were in power under Sadam. The trial and execution of the dictator was entirely done by shiite people and the hanging itself was filmed in its entirety and used as a recruiting tool. Or it came about because many Sunni never wanted to share power tom begin with after being in power for so long and sabotaged the Iraqi state where they could. And of course because there were constant killings and bombings, especially of Shia by Sunni, but also the other way around, creating a climate of ever increasing sectarian tension. | ||
|
radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On September 22 2015 00:28 Acrofales wrote: I disagree. Defector or not, if you committed war crimes in the name of ISIS while still fighting for them, you don't just get pardoned because you now speak out against them. It is far too early to talk about a truth commission, like the ones that worked well to uncover what had happened in South Africa during the darkest age of Apartheid. But I think the need here is more likely to be akin to the Nuremberg trials, but without the death penalty. Just let them rot in jail together with the Balkan war perpetrators of war crimes, Charles Taylor, and other despicable human beings. I think that if the promise of something like a truth commission helps more of these defectors speak out, and if it meaningfully blunts recruitment of potential IS soldiers, then the net result will be a positive. Less new recruits, less power for IS, more likely for it to crumble faster and in the process save the lives of thousands of people. I think we need to look at this from the broader picture of saving as many lives as possible rather than looking at an event like the "tragedy" of ignoring a person's personal crimes in isolation. I put that word in quotes just because I don't really think a lot of these people know what they are doing; they were gullible, probably desperate for some purpose or an escape from their previous lives. Even in the cases where they knew what they were doing. They simply have incorrect wiring in their brains, they were born sociopaths. Its just sad that they were born that way, but not really their 'fault' in my eyes and its hard to see anyone really as being despicable; just an error in their genes to me. Free will is a bit of a silly concept | ||
|
Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On September 22 2015 07:20 radscorpion9 wrote: I think that if the promise of something like a truth commission helps more of these defectors speak out, and if it meaningfully blunts recruitment of potential IS soldiers, then the net result will be a positive. Less new recruits, less power for IS, more likely for it to crumble faster and in the process save the lives of thousands of people. I think we need to look at this from the broader picture of saving as many lives as possible rather than looking at an event like the "tragedy" of ignoring a person's personal crimes in isolation. I put that word in quotes just because I don't really think a lot of these people know what they are doing; they were gullible, probably desperate for some purpose or an escape from their previous lives. Even in the cases where they knew what they were doing. They simply have incorrect wiring in their brains, they were born sociopaths. Its just sad that they were born that way, but not really their 'fault' in my eyes and its hard to see anyone really as being despicable; just an error in their genes to me. Free will is a bit of a silly concept I did not read the study, but the reasons of these guys to leave ISIS given in the summary are: 1) ‘IS is more interested in fighting fellow (Sunni) Muslims than the Assad government.’ 2) ‘IS is involved in brutality and atrocities against (Sunni) Muslims.’ 3) ‘IS is corrupt and un-Islamic.’ 4) ‘Life under IS is harsh and disappointing.’ So they are mainly upset about killing muslims while killing non-muslims is totally fine. Why should non-muslims then welcome people that want to kill them with open arms? Also those who join them (from the west) are typically not desperate. They are just feeling unimportant, marginalized or simply bored. And ISIS is not hiding their violent nature at all when recruiting, just their violence towards fellow muslims might be played down. | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
| ||
|
lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
I dont think there will be any conflict between Russian forces and Team USA. Putin will draw a line, arabs and kurds will accept that, then he will bomb ISIS. It's so good to see those fuckers are losing anyhow anyways. | ||
zatic
Zurich15359 Posts
https://t.co/C0bTofFk5N | ||
|
xM(Z
Romania5298 Posts
| ||
|
zatic
Zurich15359 Posts
I don't see why those numbers should be very surprising anyway. Sure, ISIS brutality is what's usually reported in Western media, but in the end it's a lot easier to rack up a high body count with artillery and air strikes on urban centers than with beheading or stoning individuals. Aside from that, Assad has a 3 year head start on ISIS in the killing civilians race. But then again, it doesn't look like he is letting them catch up even recently. Here are figures from December 2014: http://www.businessinsider.com/assads-government-still-kills-way-more-civilians-than-isis-2015-2?IR=T | ||
|
xM(Z
Romania5298 Posts
“Any generalization you make about Syria will be wrong in the past, wrong now and wrong in the future,” Jeff White, a defense fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said. then make few points:- that report was for the month of december alone; that month might not have been picked randomly. - yes, Assad is killing civilians; indiscriminate collateral damage and torture is happening; he is killing a lot of them. - there's is no point in comparing his killings with IS ones since as you said, he's been working at them for more than 3 years. - no one believes he's a good/the good guy here. | ||
|
Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
I really don't see a side to choose. And I don't see how moderate rebels could win over both sides. One thing seems pretty certain: If ISIS wins there will be no room for minorities in Syria anymore. | ||
|
Copymizer
Denmark2105 Posts
| ||
| ||
