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Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 311

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Please guys, stay on topic.

This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4768 Posts
September 22 2015 13:02 GMT
#6201
Why is this interview edited? Did they talked in Russin later parts???
Pathetic Greta hater.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-22 14:18:37
September 22 2015 14:13 GMT
#6202
@Maenander - even with the shelling of cities things are not that clear.
- you have 2 sides(well you have more but for the sake of simplicity i'll use just 2), Assad's and FSA(the free syrian army backed and sponsored by the west) that both have capabilities to cause massive casualties within civilians.
- it's war, collateral damage happens. its bad and it shouldn't but it does happen. it also happened to US and its Coalition in their wars a lot more times than it should.
- the military personnel is combat trained that as a last resort, and especially when on foreign soil, to use civilians to cover their asses, to escape, to confuse, to cause distractions and so on, with no regards for civilian safety.
- so you have 2 sides at war and one goes in a city, on purpose. whom do you blame?
1) there's no way Assad is just shelling civilians for show, for kicks. the shells cost money, quite a lot of, and you gain nothing by killing civilians.
2) the FSA knows that when they go in a city they put the civilians at risk but they do it anyway.

now, i'm not trying to justify anything and anyone here but the idea is that, based on basic logic, one should point fingers at least at both sides.
picking sides now is just stupid. there's way to much misinformation, propaganda, i could even call it a war fought to get public approval for various needs.

i mean, take that graph posted earlier in which 95% of civilian deaths were attributed to Assad(beside the fact that is from 2011).
- that graph comes from the Center for Documentation of Violations in Syria + Show Spoiler +
The Center for Documentation of Violations in Syria (VDC) is a network of syrian opposition activists whose aim is to document human rights violations perpetrated since the beginning of the syrian uprising, including victims of the violence, detainees and missing people. The network works with the activists from the Local Coordination Committees of Syria, and documents identified victims of the violence from the rebels and the civilians. The center's main sources of information include medical records, families of the victims and information received from the Imam of the mosque that performed the burial.

- the center works with the Local Coordination Committees of Syria + Show Spoiler +
The LCCSyria network consists of "overwhelmingly young" demonstrators of multiple religious and class backgrounds. The network is decentralized and works in secret.

- also + Show Spoiler +
LCCSyria is financed by donations from individual supporters. This is further facilitated by the "Adopt a Revolution" initiative. Furthermore, the Office for Syrian Opposition Support, which itself was founded by the United States Department of State and Foreign and Commonwealth Office and is funded by the Friends of Syria Group, provides "material support" and "training assistance" to the LCCs.


now, if you try and google stuff about the office for Syrian Opposition Support, well, strap-on to your tinfoil hat. you'll find it has offices in US which also gives it funding and its leader Ahmad Jarba ...
Syrian opposition President Ahmad Jarba, prepares to meet with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi at the Chinese Foreign Ministry in Beijing on April 16. Jarba's visit to China comes two months after he traveled to Russia following two abortive rounds of peace talks in Switzerland.

after that you just go whathefuck and leave it all behind 'cause no one gives a shit about the syrians. i'd say not even themselves.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Fi0na
Profile Joined February 2014
0 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-22 14:29:32
September 22 2015 14:27 GMT
#6203
On September 22 2015 22:02 Silvanel wrote:
Why is this interview edited? Did they talked in Russin later parts???


maybe the questions weren't in english anymore, so they translated over the video for those parts.

At first I was like "uhm, this is not as bad of a guy". Just trying to protect his country and fight against terrorists. Turns out he sees terrorists EVERYWHERE and they have to be eradicated altogether according to him. At this point I was pretty sure that he has no problem slaughtering civilian "terrorists" because they protest too much in public.
Also the parts about the Kurds, lol. "The syrian government does not veto anything [...] as long as the syrian unity is kept". No autonomous region under syrian government, no country for Kurds. Not even thanking them because "they are just doing their duty, and you don't thank people for doing their duty". If the war is over and the Kurds still want at least some rights, they are most likely being labeled as terrorists and destroyed as well.
And of course it is all just the fault of the US and of Europe. I still don't quite get the connection he is making there, but apparently it is Europe's fault that people are dieing in a war that he was one of the people to start.
The second half of the interview was quite disturbing to listen to.

I'm not saying it is entirely Assad's fault that the situation is this bad, but he surely is not as innocent as he sees himself.
Life is not fair. But that's what chocolate is for.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4768 Posts
September 22 2015 15:08 GMT
#6204
I realize that. But proper way to handle that is leaving them speaking whatever language they desire and adding subtitles. So we can verify if they actual said that. This way we just see Assad moving his lips and someone else speaking.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Cazimirbzh
Profile Joined February 2014
334 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-22 16:29:12
September 22 2015 16:28 GMT
#6205
@Fi0na
I think a dictator sees himself like a benevolent asshole. "It's going to be hard but it'll better for the country"
I still don't quite get the connection he is making there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes–Picot_Agreement For europe and for usa,...well, i dont think i need to link something :p
oldgregg
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand1176 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 00:02:09
September 24 2015 00:00 GMT
#6206
Russia is sending 2,000 military personnel to Syria to support Assad

https://matrixbob.wordpress.com/2015/09/22/2000-russian-troops-head-to-syria-for-first-phase-of-mission-to-support-assad/
Calculatedly addicted to Substance D for profit by drug terrorists
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6288 Posts
September 25 2015 09:32 GMT
#6207
Bashar al-Assad is not going anywhere.

Four years after President Barack Obama’s August 2011 ultimatum that the Syrian president must go, world leaders descending on New York for the United Nations General Assembly are closer to agreeing that Assad can stay.
Now in its fifth year, civil war in Syria has blown up into a regional conflict and created millions of refugees testing Europe’s border. The exodus finally convinced German Chancellor Angela Merkel to wade in and admit no solution is possible without Assad. In so doing, she publicly broke with what was once a prevailing Western position: Assad, step aside.

“We will have to talk with many actors,” Merkel said after a European Union summit in Brussels. “Assad will be part of that, but also others like the U.S. and Russia as well as important regional partners like Iran or Saudi Arabia.”

The shift comes as Russia is taking a more hands-on approach to Syria, a long-time ally, after using its veto power repeatedly on the UN Security Council to block anything that smacked of intervention by Western countries.

President Vladimir Putin sent troops as well as fighter jets, armored personnel carriers and attack helicopters to Syria and is coming to the UN ready to discuss with other power brokers about Assad’s future -- a previously taboo subject.

Thousands of desperate Syrians pouring into the European Union by land and sea have made the 28-nation bloc more willing to compromise and that strengthens Putin’s hand, according to a European diplomat in Moscow who isn’t authorized to discuss internal deliberations and asked not to be identified.

Obama Shift?

That leaves Obama. The U.S. administration may also be edging toward an easing of its aversion to a transitional role for Assad and is willing to work with Russia. Secretary of State John Kerry has spoken three times about Russia’s presence in Syria with his counterpart Sergei Lavrov and plans to meet him this weekend in New York.

More tellingly, Obama will hold a rare in-person meeting with Putin next week when both address the 193-nation body. Their previous encounters were notable for the tense body language and briefest exchanges of pleasantries.

But now the timing might be right. There is a potential for a deal on Syria between the U.S. and its allies and Russia and it’s good that Putin is going to New York to meet with Western leaders, a second European diplomat said.

Since the Russian search for influence depends on something of the Assad regime remaining, and a significant Russian presence as well as political and military Russian activity, “this probably gives a greater chance to some sort of settlement than whatever’s been done in the past,” said Richard Barrett, senior vice president of The Soufan Group, a U.S. security consultancy.

www.bloomberg.com
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
September 25 2015 09:40 GMT
#6208
Assad will have to agree to some territorial losses(i'd say at least the kurdish part) else i don't see it working.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
September 25 2015 10:11 GMT
#6209
Turkey will veto that. if the kurds from syria form an independent country, they turkish side will gain a 'safe haven' to retreat to. Just look at how they abuse the syrian war to assault the PKK
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
September 25 2015 11:25 GMT
#6210
Turkey will get to own it in a semi-autonomous Kurdistan at the cost of PKK extinction.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18355 Posts
September 25 2015 12:01 GMT
#6211
On September 25 2015 19:11 Hryul wrote:
Turkey will veto that. if the kurds from syria form an independent country, they turkish side will gain a 'safe haven' to retreat to. Just look at how they abuse the syrian war to assault the PKK

Unfortunately for Turkey, they aren't on the security council and don't get to veto shit. If the US and Russia are in alignment then it will happen. Obviously, Assad has to agree, but Turkey really doesn't. They will undoubtedly be included in the negotiations as a major power in the region, and the solution will obviously be more stable if it's something everybody can agree to.

More problematic is that I am not sure anybody is at all interested in putting boots on the ground, and any kind of force that is going to stabilize Syria is going to have to deal with ISIS, Al-Nusra, and a whole host of other militants, possibly including the FSA that the US has spent years supporting against Assad. It is going to be a long and bloody war, with or without outside help.
Cazimirbzh
Profile Joined February 2014
334 Posts
September 25 2015 16:07 GMT
#6212
@Acrofales
USA and Russia already took a deal on that. You dont withdraw missiles if u want to stay
Russia is on the move so USA will react soon too.
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
September 28 2015 06:28 GMT
#6213
If Syrian Kurds play smart as the Iraqis did, they can convince Turkey to be their ally against Assad in a possible divided Syria. That being said, we all know Syrian PYD is an offshoot of the PKK and they will remain so. If Turks play smart they let & help Syrian PYD become an official autonomy so YPG becomes an army like Peshmerga, less PKK.
Gzerble
Profile Joined May 2015
82 Posts
September 28 2015 08:15 GMT
#6214
On September 28 2015 15:28 lastpuritan wrote:
If Syrian Kurds play smart as the Iraqis did, they can convince Turkey to be their ally against Assad in a possible divided Syria. That being said, we all know Syrian PYD is an offshoot of the PKK and they will remain so. If Turks play smart they let & help Syrian PYD become an official autonomy so YPG becomes an army like Peshmerga, less PKK.

The Kurds aren't going to get help from Turkey. Turkey don't really mind Assad, but they have a history of being (and this is phrasing it gently) unkind to the Kurdish people in their own country. At a certain points, Turkey outlawed the use of the words "Kurds", "Kurdish", and "Kurdistan", which may still hold if I remember correctly. I'd expect Turkey to turn a blind eye as they don't like any of the sides involved, and only have something to lose should they intervene in any way.
Isualin
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1903 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-28 08:26:06
September 28 2015 08:25 GMT
#6215
On September 28 2015 17:15 Gzerble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2015 15:28 lastpuritan wrote:
If Syrian Kurds play smart as the Iraqis did, they can convince Turkey to be their ally against Assad in a possible divided Syria. That being said, we all know Syrian PYD is an offshoot of the PKK and they will remain so. If Turks play smart they let & help Syrian PYD become an official autonomy so YPG becomes an army like Peshmerga, less PKK.

The Kurds aren't going to get help from Turkey. Turkey don't really mind Assad, but they have a history of being (and this is phrasing it gently) unkind to the Kurdish people in their own country. At a certain points, Turkey outlawed the use of the words "Kurds", "Kurdish", and "Kurdistan", which may still hold if I remember correctly. I'd expect Turkey to turn a blind eye as they don't like any of the sides involved, and only have something to lose should they intervene in any way.

Those words were banned like 35 years ago, there is even an official kurdish tv channel now. But yeah, ypg is not getting any help from Turkey because they are connected deeply with pkk. And i don't think anyone can make ypg less pkk.
| INnoVation | The literal god TY | ByuNjwa | LRSL when? |
ImFromPortugal
Profile Joined April 2010
Portugal1368 Posts
October 01 2015 02:00 GMT
#6216

Russian govt spokesman says most of Free Syrian Army has joined #IslamicState & airstrikes will continue for as long as army offensive lasts

Yes im
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11575 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-01 14:36:54
October 01 2015 14:27 GMT
#6217
My goodness. Now that Russia has started bombing targets- in which they claim are ISIS targets, and US claims they are not- the Canadian Broadcast Corporation's comment section is flooded with pro-Putin comments, Americans are hypocrits comments, and with a heavy dose of either ISIS is US backed or US has been failing to fight ISIS for the last 12 years, but now Putin will get it done.

edut
Actually, I guess Russia is now saying some targets are not ISIS. So realpolitik, then. Still doesn't change the unbelievable and abrupt support for Putin in the CBC comment section... or the fact that some are claiming we've been fighting ISIS for 12 years...
Moderator5000 of our finest Taliban warriors have been released! Rise up my brothers. Mashalla! al-Donald ibn-Frederick al-Masih allows it.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
October 01 2015 14:31 GMT
#6218
honestly i'm more interested in Turkey's take on Russia joining the fight.
i don't really care what US is doing or how they'll come out out of this. they were just leeching there anyway.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
October 01 2015 14:32 GMT
#6219
Well it is pretty clear that many of their bombings are not on ISIS. Which is why they stated "most of FSA has joined ISIS" in the first place. I mean if they said that much of FSA are muslim extremists or whatever I would be cool with it. But simply claming they are ISIS is just factual nonsense.
Off-season = best season
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 01 2015 14:39 GMT
#6220
They are just trying to return to the status quo before the war. So it will be bomb everyone and since the US and EU are bombing ISIS, its the rebels Russia is going after. They just want the region to become stable, shitty dictator or otherwise.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
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