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Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members.
Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true. |
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On March 21 2011 10:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +DAYS before Japan plunged into an atomic crisis after a giant earthquake and tsunami knocked out power at the ageing Fukushima nuclear plant, its operator had admitted faking repair records.
The revelation raises fresh questions about both Tokyo, the scandal-tainted past of the Electric Power Co (TEPCO), and the Japanese government's perceived soft regulation of a key industry.
The operator of the Fukushima No 1 plant submitted a report to the country's nuclear watchdog 10 days before the quake hit on March 11, admitting it had failed to inspect 33 pieces of equipment in its six reactors there.
A power board distributing electricity to a reactor's temperature control valves was not examined for 11 years, and inspectors faked records, pretending to make thorough inspections when in fact they were only cursory, TEPCO said. Source
Hahaha. This happens all the time all over the world. Except this is when it REALLY matters. So many mines and plants in the USA have accumulated safety violations, yet no one really does anything about it. Except when accidents happen...
Then again, I'm not exactly sure if even those repairs could have stopped this from happening. After all, the plant certainly wasn't built to withstand a 10 meter tsunami by any stretch of the imagination. I would imagine that the cooling systems would have failed regardless of whether these repairs actually did take place or not.
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is awesome32274 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/radiation.png)
Did anyone post this?
It's pretty interesting regardless of the situation right now. The media loves spilling numbers all over (not only in this case in particular) but never actually explain what numbers mean. "XXX millions were used on our country this year to do YYYY". Proportion is something really important when doing numbers and this graph puts things a little into perspective. Questions numbers when a paper writes "specialists say..." or "very high levels". If they knew their shit, they would posts the numbers they got and a comparison to show if they are dangerous or not. Or at least a source to who the specialists are...
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On March 21 2011 16:05 IntoTheWow wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Did anyone post this? It's pretty interesting regardless of the situation right now. The media loves spilling numbers all over (not only in this case in particular) but never actually explain what numbers mean. "XXX millions were used on our country this year to do YYYY". Proportion is something really important when doing numbers and this graph puts things a little into perspective. Questions numbers when a paper writes "specialists say..." or "very high levels". If they knew their shit, they would posts the numbers they got and a comparison to show if they are dangerous or not. Or at least a source to who the specialists are...
Wow that is really interesting information, I really thought that radiation exposure was more linear... I guess... than it is shown in that image. You really have to have a lot of radiation to get hurt at all, like thousands of X-rays. Thanks for sharing good info!!
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Grey smoke coming from the building of reactor #3. No great increase in radiation levels or pressure in the vessel so at this point they are not sure of the cause of the smoke.
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When did a physics class in Uni (north of Sweden), one lab test was to measure radioactivity in mushrooms. For our class, we managed to get mushrooms from 3 different locations.
-Hand picked from a nearby forest 1 week earlier
-Canned mushrooms from the nearby supermarket (well known brand)
-Dried mushrooms picked in Chernobyl 2 years earlier.
The result, if I'm not mistaken was that Canned < Local <<<< Chernobyl in terms of radiation. (Tho, my memory is a bit hazy, the canned and local might have been the other way around). But all students were amazed that we managed to find radiation both in local, and canned. But niether of them came even near to the chernobyl ones.
What's my point with this? Not anywhere in the article did they mention how much radiation they found, nor did they compare it to radiation from unexposed food.
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Edano and the Japanese Ministry of Health did announce yesterday (NHK news) that radiation levels exceeding the acceptable standards were found in spinach and milk in a neighbouring prefecture close to Fukushima. But it was mentioned that if you drink that contaminated milk everyday for 1 year, it will be equivalent to radiation from 1 CT scan. All shipments of these products have been halted and they are testing other produce as well.
Edit:
There is also some contamination of tap water in a village in Fukushima. The water is okay for washing but not for drinking. If you drink it, it will not affect your health immediately though.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/21_14.html
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On March 21 2011 18:24 Danjoh wrote:When did a physics class in Uni (north of Sweden), one lab test was to measure radioactivity in mushrooms. For our class, we managed to get mushrooms from 3 different locations. -Hand picked from a nearby forest 1 week earlier -Canned mushrooms from the nearby supermarket (well known brand) -Dried mushrooms picked in Chernobyl 2 years earlier. The result, if I'm not mistaken was that Canned < Local <<<< Chernobyl in terms of radiation. (Tho, my memory is a bit hazy, the canned and local might have been the other way around). But all students were amazed that we managed to find radiation both in local, and canned. But niether of them came even near to the chernobyl ones. What's my point with this? Not anywhere in the article did they mention how much radiation they found, nor did they compare it to radiation from unexposed food.
I read one explanation for the existence of radiation in mushrooms 25 years after Chernobyl. The reason is that the soil in forests is really good at storing the radioactive elements which we had as fallout from the cloud in central / northern Europe.
Thus forest mushrooms = bad; industrial "cave mushrooms" = good. The mushrooms simply concentrate the radioactive elements present in the soil.
http://www.leifiphysik.de/web_ph12/geschichte/11tschernobyl/umwelt.htm
Since there isnt a huge radioactive cloud (at least we can assume the amount radioactive elements is limited) in Japan they might not have as big of an impact. There are too many small farmers in Japan who would be economically devastated if their small piece of land is useless due to radiation.
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On March 21 2011 22:59 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 18:24 Danjoh wrote:When did a physics class in Uni (north of Sweden), one lab test was to measure radioactivity in mushrooms. For our class, we managed to get mushrooms from 3 different locations. -Hand picked from a nearby forest 1 week earlier -Canned mushrooms from the nearby supermarket (well known brand) -Dried mushrooms picked in Chernobyl 2 years earlier. The result, if I'm not mistaken was that Canned < Local <<<< Chernobyl in terms of radiation. (Tho, my memory is a bit hazy, the canned and local might have been the other way around). But all students were amazed that we managed to find radiation both in local, and canned. But niether of them came even near to the chernobyl ones. What's my point with this? Not anywhere in the article did they mention how much radiation they found, nor did they compare it to radiation from unexposed food. I read one explanation for the existence of radiation in mushrooms 25 years after Chernobyl. The reason is that the soil in forests is really good at storing the radioactive elements which we had as fallout from the cloud in central / northern Europe. Thus forest mushrooms = bad; industrial "cave mushrooms" = good. The mushrooms simply concentrate the radioactive elements present in the soil. http://www.leifiphysik.de/web_ph12/geschichte/11tschernobyl/umwelt.htmSince there isnt a huge radioactive cloud (at least we can assume the amount radioactive elements is limited) in Japan they might not have as big of an impact. There are too many small farmers in Japan who would be economically devastated if their small piece of land is useless due to radiation.
I'm concerned that they're going to whip out their excessive food standards again and ruin a bunch of farmers' lives...
I don't know what it's like nowadays, but last time I checked, every apple, every cucumber, every everything was selected meticulously to be absolutely spotless and perfectly shaped. It seemingly doesn't matter whether the fruit/vegetable still retains its taste or nutritional value; it just has to look like a work of art -- hence the disturbingly expensive produce in a lot of places.
Even the smallest anomaly is enough to botch a ton of perfectly good food, so you can imagine what radiation from elements of decades-long half-lives would do even if it's minute.
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LOLOLOLOL
Neighborhood: Team Liquid
Description: Beastly man with bulging muscles and a sense of justice.
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If anyone's interested, I just got information that Japan's looking for volunteer interpreters for English, Chinese, Korean, Russian and French.
PM me if you're interested and I'll send you their contacts.
I'd love to go myself (translator by trade), but I think I'd end up more a liability than anything...
+ Show Spoiler +
<Volunteer Rescue & Interpretation Team for the Great Tohoku Earthquake Urgently Needed!>
In order to respond to the extensive damage from the Tohoku Earthquake, numerous rescue teams have arrived from overseas. However, there is a serious shortage of interpreters in various situations, such as missing people search and medical treatment for casualties.
We need volunteer interpreters to work with our “Rescue & Interpretation Team for the Great Tohoku Earthquake.” Licensed interpreter-guides, medical interpreters, former employees of JAL and anyone who is fluent in Japanese and other languages are all welcome.
Conditions: People in good health who can work from the 16th (Wed.) based on instructions from the Japanese government. No limitation for age or sex.
Languages: English, Chinese, Korean, Russian and French.
Note that this is voluntary work so there is no compensation and costs for transportation and meals may not be covered.
Please send your information (see below) to Mr. Okamura or Ms. Fujigami by e-mail or fax.
Name, sex, age, language(s) you speak, address (including postal code), phone number (land phone), cell phone number, e-mail address
Kanzaburo OKAMURA, Chairman of Tokyo Interpreters Academy
Rescue & Interpreters Team, Head Office,
Tokyo Interpreters Academy (TIA.)
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On March 21 2011 16:05 IntoTheWow wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Did anyone post this? It's pretty interesting regardless of the situation right now. The media loves spilling numbers all over (not only in this case in particular) but never actually explain what numbers mean. "XXX millions were used on our country this year to do YYYY". Proportion is something really important when doing numbers and this graph puts things a little into perspective. Questions numbers when a paper writes "specialists say..." or "very high levels". If they knew their shit, they would posts the numbers they got and a comparison to show if they are dangerous or not. Or at least a source to who the specialists are...
XKCD is full of amazing stuff. The most interesting, or at least ironic, thing in this graph is how you absorb more radiation from living near a coal plant than a nuclear plant. I though radiation at chernobyl would be a little higher also. I wonder how valuable are valuable properties. The last line at the bottow should apply to anything on the internet though.
This time at least he was harmless.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=40487
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2011 16:05 IntoTheWow wrote:Did anyone post this? It's pretty interesting regardless of the situation right now. The media loves spilling numbers all over (not only in this case in particular) but never actually explain what numbers mean. "XXX millions were used on our country this year to do YYYY". Proportion is something really important when doing numbers and this graph puts things a little into perspective. Questions numbers when a paper writes "specialists say..." or "very high levels". If they knew their shit, they would posts the numbers they got and a comparison to show if they are dangerous or not. Or at least a source to who the specialists are...
Pretty interesting read. Thx for posting that. It's so easy to go into OMG WTF BBQ mode when you read the news (no matter what kind of numbers they include).
Numbers are generally considered to be a source of objectivity, but if you don't have the necessary knowledge to understand their meaning it's worth the same as any random political BS (which btw includes a lot of numbers nearly nobody understands).
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i heard the quake was updated to a 9.0
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On March 22 2011 05:26 dump wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 22:59 Rabiator wrote:On March 21 2011 18:24 Danjoh wrote:When did a physics class in Uni (north of Sweden), one lab test was to measure radioactivity in mushrooms. For our class, we managed to get mushrooms from 3 different locations. -Hand picked from a nearby forest 1 week earlier -Canned mushrooms from the nearby supermarket (well known brand) -Dried mushrooms picked in Chernobyl 2 years earlier. The result, if I'm not mistaken was that Canned < Local <<<< Chernobyl in terms of radiation. (Tho, my memory is a bit hazy, the canned and local might have been the other way around). But all students were amazed that we managed to find radiation both in local, and canned. But niether of them came even near to the chernobyl ones. What's my point with this? Not anywhere in the article did they mention how much radiation they found, nor did they compare it to radiation from unexposed food. I read one explanation for the existence of radiation in mushrooms 25 years after Chernobyl. The reason is that the soil in forests is really good at storing the radioactive elements which we had as fallout from the cloud in central / northern Europe. Thus forest mushrooms = bad; industrial "cave mushrooms" = good. The mushrooms simply concentrate the radioactive elements present in the soil. http://www.leifiphysik.de/web_ph12/geschichte/11tschernobyl/umwelt.htmSince there isnt a huge radioactive cloud (at least we can assume the amount radioactive elements is limited) in Japan they might not have as big of an impact. There are too many small farmers in Japan who would be economically devastated if their small piece of land is useless due to radiation. I'm concerned that they're going to whip out their excessive food standards again and ruin a bunch of farmers' lives... I don't know what it's like nowadays, but last time I checked, every apple, every cucumber, every everything was selected meticulously to be absolutely spotless and perfectly shaped. It seemingly doesn't matter whether the fruit/vegetable still retains its taste or nutritional value; it just has to look like a work of art -- hence the disturbingly expensive produce in a lot of places. Even the smallest anomaly is enough to botch a ton of perfectly good food, so you can imagine what radiation from elements of decades-long half-lives would do even if it's minute.
Ugly fruits get processed. Juices, mashed ingredients etc. Whether they like it or not, I'm sure it will end up in their tables for better or worse. Most people don't know where their food comes from. Even if they think they are putting an effort to be diligent.
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On March 22 2011 05:26 dump wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 22:59 Rabiator wrote:On March 21 2011 18:24 Danjoh wrote:When did a physics class in Uni (north of Sweden), one lab test was to measure radioactivity in mushrooms. For our class, we managed to get mushrooms from 3 different locations. -Hand picked from a nearby forest 1 week earlier -Canned mushrooms from the nearby supermarket (well known brand) -Dried mushrooms picked in Chernobyl 2 years earlier. The result, if I'm not mistaken was that Canned < Local <<<< Chernobyl in terms of radiation. (Tho, my memory is a bit hazy, the canned and local might have been the other way around). But all students were amazed that we managed to find radiation both in local, and canned. But niether of them came even near to the chernobyl ones. What's my point with this? Not anywhere in the article did they mention how much radiation they found, nor did they compare it to radiation from unexposed food. I read one explanation for the existence of radiation in mushrooms 25 years after Chernobyl. The reason is that the soil in forests is really good at storing the radioactive elements which we had as fallout from the cloud in central / northern Europe. Thus forest mushrooms = bad; industrial "cave mushrooms" = good. The mushrooms simply concentrate the radioactive elements present in the soil. http://www.leifiphysik.de/web_ph12/geschichte/11tschernobyl/umwelt.htmSince there isnt a huge radioactive cloud (at least we can assume the amount radioactive elements is limited) in Japan they might not have as big of an impact. There are too many small farmers in Japan who would be economically devastated if their small piece of land is useless due to radiation. I'm concerned that they're going to whip out their excessive food standards again and ruin a bunch of farmers' lives... I don't know what it's like nowadays, but last time I checked, every apple, every cucumber, every everything was selected meticulously to be absolutely spotless and perfectly shaped. It seemingly doesn't matter whether the fruit/vegetable still retains its taste or nutritional value; it just has to look like a work of art -- hence the disturbingly expensive produce in a lot of places. Even the smallest anomaly is enough to botch a ton of perfectly good food, so you can imagine what radiation from elements of decades-long half-lives would do even if it's minute.
+ Show Spoiler +Hmm, I remember when I was a young kid, and Sweden was joining the EU, and there was talk about all these stupid rules. One of the rules was that cucumbers couldn't be crooked, they had to be straight, and up to that point, I had never seen or heard of a straight cucumber. But surely, after joining the EU. the crooked cucumbers were quickly phased out. And these days I can't help but to wonder.... what happens to all the crooked cucumbers?
Anyway, sorry for that.
Any news on how the homeless people have fared? Are the majority still cold and hungry? Or are the supplies getting there?
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@Danjoh
The regulations covering the size and shape of 26 types of fruit and vegetable are expected to be abolished today [nov 2008] by EU agriculture officials in a move that should make food cheaper and more fun. It will reduce the waste caused by an estimated 20 per cent of farm produce - such as curvy cucumbers or crooked carrots - being rejected for not meeting EU standards and should bring prices down at a time when household budgets are under heightened pressure.
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On March 22 2011 06:29 Danjoh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 05:26 dump wrote:On March 21 2011 22:59 Rabiator wrote:On March 21 2011 18:24 Danjoh wrote:When did a physics class in Uni (north of Sweden), one lab test was to measure radioactivity in mushrooms. For our class, we managed to get mushrooms from 3 different locations. -Hand picked from a nearby forest 1 week earlier -Canned mushrooms from the nearby supermarket (well known brand) -Dried mushrooms picked in Chernobyl 2 years earlier. The result, if I'm not mistaken was that Canned < Local <<<< Chernobyl in terms of radiation. (Tho, my memory is a bit hazy, the canned and local might have been the other way around). But all students were amazed that we managed to find radiation both in local, and canned. But niether of them came even near to the chernobyl ones. What's my point with this? Not anywhere in the article did they mention how much radiation they found, nor did they compare it to radiation from unexposed food. I read one explanation for the existence of radiation in mushrooms 25 years after Chernobyl. The reason is that the soil in forests is really good at storing the radioactive elements which we had as fallout from the cloud in central / northern Europe. Thus forest mushrooms = bad; industrial "cave mushrooms" = good. The mushrooms simply concentrate the radioactive elements present in the soil. http://www.leifiphysik.de/web_ph12/geschichte/11tschernobyl/umwelt.htmSince there isnt a huge radioactive cloud (at least we can assume the amount radioactive elements is limited) in Japan they might not have as big of an impact. There are too many small farmers in Japan who would be economically devastated if their small piece of land is useless due to radiation. I'm concerned that they're going to whip out their excessive food standards again and ruin a bunch of farmers' lives... I don't know what it's like nowadays, but last time I checked, every apple, every cucumber, every everything was selected meticulously to be absolutely spotless and perfectly shaped. It seemingly doesn't matter whether the fruit/vegetable still retains its taste or nutritional value; it just has to look like a work of art -- hence the disturbingly expensive produce in a lot of places. Even the smallest anomaly is enough to botch a ton of perfectly good food, so you can imagine what radiation from elements of decades-long half-lives would do even if it's minute. + Show Spoiler +Hmm, I remember when I was a young kid, and Sweden was joining the EU, and there was talk about all these stupid rules. One of the rules was that cucumbers couldn't be crooked, they had to be straight, and up to that point, I had never seen or heard of a straight cucumber. But surely, after joining the EU. the crooked cucumbers were quickly phased out. And these days I can't help but to wonder.... what happens to all the crooked cucumbers? Anyway, sorry for that. Any news on how the homeless people have fared? Are the majority still cold and hungry? Or are the supplies getting there?
The Self Defence Force is there cooking and stuff, so the situation is a bit better. But the smaller camps of like 20-30 people (of which there are tons) are still being completely neglected. No food, no shelter, no medicine for the old/sick...
Still, a lot of the places are only accessible only by plane/chopper, so there's never enough.
Apparently right now the other huge concern is the fear of aftershocks. Even though it's not too likely that there'll be another tsunami, people are completely traumatized.
Translated blog post by an aid worker/doctor who happens to live there: http://www.stage-earth.ca/2011/03/afraid-of-aftershocks/
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There was just a 6.6 offshore, but it's pretty far out to sea so it's probably not a big deal...
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EPT
