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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated. |
On March 18 2011 08:13 RxN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 08:07 Keniji wrote:On March 18 2011 08:07 RxN wrote:On March 18 2011 08:06 jello_biafra wrote:On March 18 2011 08:05 RxN wrote:
Horrible decision. Seriously? Yes, seriously. might explain? I'm not a fan of Gadaffi by any means but I've long grown tired of people chastising the US for playing world police and then looking for us to lead the calls for military intervention anytime it falls in line with their agenda. And to top it off, this is two weeks too late.
Sounds to me like you aren't interested in the US going to war unless it's against the will of the rest of the world? Please stop making the US out to be martyrs here. We're not victims and we were not strong armed. I don't know any person that has been opposed to supporting the Libyan rebels, no matter their political ideology.
EDIT: And as posted above by the German gentlemen, I don't see how this decision is in the interest of Europe. If anything, dictators probably stay in power with foreign support by exploiting its natural resources. If Europe has been getting Libyan oil for years, why would they want to upset that now if they were acting out of pragmatic ideologies?
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What did Germany say in its speech plz ?
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On March 18 2011 08:21 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 08:13 RxN wrote:On March 18 2011 08:07 Keniji wrote:On March 18 2011 08:07 RxN wrote:On March 18 2011 08:06 jello_biafra wrote:On March 18 2011 08:05 RxN wrote:
Horrible decision. Seriously? Yes, seriously. might explain? I'm not a fan of Gadaffi by any means but I've long grown tired of people chastising the US for playing world police and then looking for us to lead the calls for military intervention anytime it falls in line with their agenda. And to top it off, this is two weeks too late. Sounds to me like you aren't interested in the US going to war unless it's against the will of the rest of the world? Please stop making the US out to be martyrs here. We're not victims and we were not strong armed. I don't know any person that has been opposed to supporting the Libyan rebels, no matter their political ideology.
I'm not interested in the US going to war period. And I'm certainly not interested in us intervening in a civil war in a country of no strategic importance to us in order to save a group of people who hate us and got in way over their head.
But I know plenty of people who are against intervention. You should look around.
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Don't worry, US will probably do nothing. Probably only indirect support.
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This is one of those rare occasions that I'm proud to be an American. I just wish they would have done this two weeks earlier.
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On March 18 2011 08:05 RxN wrote:
Horrible decision. The US was strong-armed into this by the oil-grubbing European powers.
Libya only has a minor effect on oil prices. Commodity speculation is the actual cause the the recent price increase.
I don't know how the resolution will go. It's definitely telling that all the BRIC powers abstained. With the exception of Brazil, they all have the potential of facing their own popular revolutions.
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On March 18 2011 08:24 Nitro68 wrote:
Don't worry, US will probably do nothing. Probably only indirect support.
Nope. From the website of the guardian:
7.11pm ET: US enforcement of a no-fly zone in Libya could begin by Sunday or Monday, according to anonymous US officials quoted by AP, and would involve "jet fighters, bombers and surveillance aircraft".
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/17/libya-united-nations-air-strikes-live)
French expected to deploy before that and the brits also.
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Italy has offered some of it's air bases and a port for use against Libya.
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On March 18 2011 08:20 RxN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 08:18 Kukaracha wrote:On March 18 2011 08:13 RxN wrote:
Are we going to get involved in every civil war now? Maybe we can swing through Iran and then make our way through Africa and up through South America on our way home. Lol it's actually exactly what the US did during the Cold War (or almost). Nothing new... And? It wasn't right then and it's not right now. Or is it right now because it furthers the French agenda? You French were the most adamant about this No-Fly Zone. I wonder why that was? Can't have anything to do with the fact that Europe is much more dependent on Libyan oil than we in the US are, can it?
It has to do with the terrible polls for Sarkozy, the elections coming next year and the fiasco of the French diplomacy in Tunisia ( Juppé, the guy who spoke at the UN was appointed as new Foreign minister because of the crisis in Tunisia ).
The government was heavily criticized for its support of Ben Ali and the last Foreign minister was sacked. They don't want to make the same mistake again.
Oil is definitly not the main concern, as zatic has said before we could get oil from Gaddafi anyway.
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On March 18 2011 08:20 RxN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 08:18 Kukaracha wrote:On March 18 2011 08:13 RxN wrote:
Are we going to get involved in every civil war now? Maybe we can swing through Iran and then make our way through Africa and up through South America on our way home. Lol it's actually exactly what the US did during the Cold War (or almost). Nothing new... And? It wasn't right then and it's not right now. Or is it right now because it furthers the French agenda? You French were the most adamant about this No-Fly Zone. I wonder why that was? Can't have anything to do with the fact that Europe is much more dependent on Libyan oil than we in the US are, can it? And why do we pick and choose which protesters to help? Twice now we've thrown the people of Iran to the wolves. Where were the calls for military intervention when the Mullahs were smashing the Iranian civilians?
"Us French"... Uh, yeah, right...
The French attitude was clearly motivated by it's too obvious close relationship to Libya, Egypt and Tunisia. Also, by getting in Libya, they do secure oil ressources, it's true. No one denies that!
Why do we choose the protesters... Erm, I'd say that this time at least we chose the ones about to be massacred, which isn't a bad thing.
I don't think that killing mercenaries is such a horrible thing. They can just take their cash and run away. Ghadaffi had very little popular support, and that's what makes this a good decision. It's not an even battle between to factions.
Also, I'd say that if the US intervention has already given a certain (dictatorship) direction to many countries and if they have a strong military presence all around the world... supporting democracy isn't that bad. As Churchill said, it's not the worse of all systems.
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Photos from the frontline:
![[image loading]](http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5536044022_7e6f0df667.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5298/5535462641_a33de25c57.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5217/5535464137_d431f19a82.jpg)
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Libyan FM now speaking in Tripoli.
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The one thing the protesters did wrong was they became armed rebels. That started a civil war, and no one should be involved in it.
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Look at these two jokers.
On March 18 2011 08:38 Fattah wrote:
The one thing the protesters did wrong was they became armed rebels. That started a civil war, and no one should be involved in it.
I think that is the kind of thing that can happen when a regime starts to burn its conscripts alive for denying to shoot their own citizens.
Khadafi made this a civil war, not the protesters.
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On March 18 2011 08:22 Nitro68 wrote:
What did Germany say in its speech plz ?
I haven't heard the speech, but as far as I can read it in the german newspapers something like:
They support the economic sanctions but a military intervention is extremly difficult and has high risks.
(and the german luftwaffe won't help)
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Think the Libyan FM just bashed Germany... When talking about the countries that abstained:
"and Germany... what a surprise... haha."
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On March 18 2011 08:38 Fattah wrote:
The one thing the protesters did wrong was they became armed rebels. That started a civil war, and no one should be involved in it.
Surely if they hadn't taken up arms though they would have been slaughtered, this started out peacefully remember.
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On March 18 2011 08:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Think the Libyan FM just bashed Germany... When talking about the countries that abstained:
"and Germany... what a surprise... haha."
Gaddafi praised us 1 day ago. Who cares about Libyan FM.
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On March 18 2011 08:41 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 08:38 Fattah wrote:
The one thing the protesters did wrong was they became armed rebels. That started a civil war, and no one should be involved in it. Surely if they hadn't taken up arms though they would have been slaughtered, this started out peacefully remember.
Out of curiosity, do you support military intervention in Iran when the Mullahs brutalize their populace for the third time?
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Deputy Foreign Minister of Libya says they will respect the ceasefire after 'some of the technical details' are worked out. Wonder if that means real technical details or dragging the process out till benghazi is bombed to pieces.
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EPT
