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Libyan Uprising - Page 42

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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated.
Nizaris
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium2230 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 23:47:31
March 17 2011 23:46 GMT
#821
I don't really see why France needs the rebels to get oil from Libya, they were getting it fine from Gaddafi? If anything this looks like a desperate Sarkozy trying to get votes for the upcoming elections.

Edit: nvm ... too slow.
Fattah
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Egypt128 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 23:47:38
March 17 2011 23:46 GMT
#822
Tunisia and Egypt also faced the same thing, but what did the people do? They stood their ground and kept chanting "selmeya selmeya" (peaceful peaceful) same with Bahrain and Yemen now. Taking up arms threatens the security of the state. Whether you like Gaddafi or not is a different issue.
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
March 17 2011 23:46 GMT
#823
UN authorises no-fly zone over Libya
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131720311168561.html

Damn it's on, Gadaffi.
화이팅
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 23:47:11
March 17 2011 23:46 GMT
#824
On March 18 2011 08:46 Nizaris wrote:
I don't really see why France needs the rebels to get oil from Libya, they were getting it fine from Gaddafi? If anything this looks like a desperate Sarkozy trying to get votes for the upcoming elections.

yep you get it. He wants to look "présidentiable" :D
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 17 2011 23:46 GMT
#825
On March 18 2011 08:46 Fattah wrote:
Tunisia and Egypt also faced the same thing, but what did the people do? They stood their ground and kept chanting "selmeya selmeya" (peaceful peaceful) same with Bahrain and Yemen now.


They weren't bombed and shot at by their military either.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
DorN
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany90 Posts
March 17 2011 23:48 GMT
#826
On March 18 2011 08:45 Derez wrote:
Deputy Foreign Minister of Libya says they will respect the ceasefire after 'some of the technical details' are worked out. Wonder if that means real technical details or dragging the process out till benghazi is bombed to pieces.


I think its more about no one really can control all those people.
Therefore establishing a ceasefire is not that easy.
Doppelganger
Profile Joined May 2010
488 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 23:49:57
March 17 2011 23:49 GMT
#827
Any military action by our Government would be political suicide. 88% of the people are opposed to military actions. So Germany will not help because the Germans won't allow it.
Steppen_Wolf
Profile Joined March 2011
Colombia23 Posts
March 17 2011 23:49 GMT
#828
On March 18 2011 08:44 RxN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 08:41 jello_biafra wrote:
On March 18 2011 08:38 Fattah wrote:
The one thing the protesters did wrong was they became armed rebels. That started a civil war, and no one should be involved in it.

Surely if they hadn't taken up arms though they would have been slaughtered, this started out peacefully remember.


Out of curiosity, do you support military intervention in Iran when the Mullahs brutalize their populace for the third time?


Eh, intervention in Iran would imply to take down a very strong regime that's not facing serious internal opposition.

What you have in Libya is a dictator holding to power with little popular support by using mercenaries and heavy weapons.

If you don't interviene thousands of inocent will die, this might not matter to you, but some people are... You know, decent human beings.
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
March 17 2011 23:50 GMT
#829
On March 18 2011 08:46 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 08:46 Nizaris wrote:
I don't really see why France needs the rebels to get oil from Libya, they were getting it fine from Gaddafi? If anything this looks like a desperate Sarkozy trying to get votes for the upcoming elections.

yep you get it. He wants to look "présidentiable" :D


It's really weird. I think Sarkozy was one of the very few that really stood out positiv in the lybia situation. Seems like the French doesn't think so and want rather want to do nothing like germany.
Or is there something I don't get?
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 23:51:09
March 17 2011 23:50 GMT
#830
Deputy foreign minister seems like another sock puppet. I'm having flashbacks to the iraqi minister of information; 'there are no american troops in iraq'.
RxN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States255 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 23:52:01
March 17 2011 23:51 GMT
#831
On March 18 2011 08:46 Nizaris wrote:
I don't really see why France needs the rebels to get oil from Libya, they were getting it fine from Gaddafi? If anything this looks like a desperate Sarkozy trying to get votes for the upcoming elections.

Edit: nvm ... too slow.


The French and English put their chips on the rebels very early on and made it known that they wanted Qaddafi gone. Not only is the oil not flowing to Europe right now but they stand to lose a lot should Qaddafi stay in power. He doesn't forget and should he stay in power then I fully expect him to stage reprisal attacks on them down the road. And who's to say he'll continue selling them oil after this? Everyone in the world wants oil. I'd bet the Chinese would be willing to take it off his hands.
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 23:52:19
March 17 2011 23:51 GMT
#832
On March 18 2011 08:50 Derez wrote:
Deputy foreign minister seems like another sock puppet. I'm having flashbacks to the iraqi minister of information; 'there are no american troops in iraq'.



Well, what he was saying was more like "oh holy crap they monstercalled our bluff".

Totally had a lol at his random Germany bashing though haha.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
Fattah
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Egypt128 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 23:58:46
March 17 2011 23:55 GMT
#833
On March 18 2011 08:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 08:46 Fattah wrote:
Tunisia and Egypt also faced the same thing, but what did the people do? They stood their ground and kept chanting "selmeya selmeya" (peaceful peaceful) same with Bahrain and Yemen now.


They weren't bombed and shot at by their military either.


If we are going to make excuses, then you should also excuse Gaddafi for trying to fight a civil war. He has military officers and equipment joining the fight. We all wish for this to end peacefully, but making a saying "this is pro government camps we should bomb and these are anti government we shouldn't bomb" is wrong. And please don't tell me that him bombing his people is the ONLY reason for no fly zone......

Gaddafi already adpoted the Israeli approach of war in 1956 and 1967, by just running to the furthest point and declaring it in their hands. All the other small cities will fall after that. The Israelis held only Suez and left whole Sinai untoched. Gaddafi might try to hold Tobruk and wait for the rest to fall. Then, diplomacy starts again.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 17 2011 23:57 GMT
#834
On March 18 2011 08:55 Fattah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 08:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On March 18 2011 08:46 Fattah wrote:
Tunisia and Egypt also faced the same thing, but what did the people do? They stood their ground and kept chanting "selmeya selmeya" (peaceful peaceful) same with Bahrain and Yemen now.


They weren't bombed and shot at by their military either.


If we are going to make excuses, then you should also excuse Gaddafi for trying to fight a civil war. He has military officers and equipment joining the fight. We all wish for this to end peacefully, but making a saying "this is pro government camps we should bomb and these are anti government we shouldn't bomb" is wrong. And please don't tell me that him bombing his people is the ONLY reason for no fly zone......


No it's not he is also using mercenaries to kill innocent civilians, using ambulances to shoot wounded, killing journalists intentionally...
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 00:03:34
March 18 2011 00:01 GMT
#835
On March 18 2011 08:50 Keniji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 08:46 Boblion wrote:
On March 18 2011 08:46 Nizaris wrote:
I don't really see why France needs the rebels to get oil from Libya, they were getting it fine from Gaddafi? If anything this looks like a desperate Sarkozy trying to get votes for the upcoming elections.

yep you get it. He wants to look "présidentiable" :D


It's really weird. I think Sarkozy was one of the very few that really stood out positiv in the lybia situation. Seems like the French doesn't think so and want rather want to do nothing like germany.
Or is there something I don't get?

Well i'm pretty sure that most of the French people want Gaddafi to resign but they don't want to send soldiers ( The 3000 soldiers we have in Afghanistan are already a big controversy ). So i guess the "no-fly zone" solution is the best option for most people.
At least until one of our planes gets shot down or civilians get killed by Western bombs ( People are so fickle lol ).
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 18 2011 00:01 GMT
#836
CAIRO—Egypt's military has begun shipping arms over the border to Libyan rebels with Washington's knowledge, U.S. and Libyan rebel officials said.

The shipments—mostly small arms such as assault rifles and ammunition—appear to be the first confirmed case of an outside government arming the rebel fighters. Those fighters have been losing ground for days in the face of a steady westward advance by forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.

The Egyptian shipments are the strongest indication to date that some Arab countries are heeding Western calls to take a lead in efforts to intervene on behalf of pro-democracy rebels in their fight against Mr. Gadhafi in Libya. Washington and other Western countries have long voiced frustration with Arab states' unwillingness to help resolve crises in their own region, even as they criticized Western powers for attempting to do so.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 00:06:39
March 18 2011 00:03 GMT
#837
On March 18 2011 08:55 Fattah wrote:
Gaddafi already adpoted the Israeli approach of war in 1956 and 1967, by just running to the furthest point and declaring it in their hands. All the other small cities will fall after that. The Israelis held only Suez and left whole Sinai untoched. Gaddafi might try to hold Tobruk and wait for the rest to fall. Then, diplomacy starts again.


French airplanes can be over libya in a matter of hours, not days. Ghadaffi's militay basicly consists of 3 pick-up trucks and 2 crop dusters. The UN resolution allows for a 'no-drive zone' (incl. actively bombing ghadaffi's troops). We've had this situation before, go google highway of death. Ghadaffi isn't taking another city.

And why are you blaming protesters? Ghadaffi is crushing an, initially, non-violent uprising. The protesters have only used violence against troops loyal to ghadaffi. You have to understand that there is no way back for these people. Ghadaffi won't leave any of them alive if he wins this.
RxN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States255 Posts
March 18 2011 00:06 GMT
#838
On March 18 2011 09:03 Derez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 08:55 Fattah wrote:
Gaddafi already adpoted the Israeli approach of war in 1956 and 1967, by just running to the furthest point and declaring it in their hands. All the other small cities will fall after that. The Israelis held only Suez and left whole Sinai untoched. Gaddafi might try to hold Tobruk and wait for the rest to fall. Then, diplomacy starts again.


French airplanes can be over libya in a matter of hours, not days. Ghadaffi's militay basicly consists of 3 pick-up trucks and 2 crop dusters. The UN resolution allows for a 'no-drive zone' (incl. actively bombing ghadaffi's troops). We've had this situation before, go google highway of death. Ghadaffi isn't taking another city.




So it's not a No-Fly Zone and more of a direct military intervention on behalf of the rebels.
absalom86
Profile Joined April 2010
Iceland1770 Posts
March 18 2011 00:09 GMT
#839
On March 18 2011 08:38 Fattah wrote:
The one thing the protesters did wrong was they became armed rebels. That started a civil war, and no one should be involved in it.


The protesters were being murdered by snipers... Do you want them to lie down and get killed ?
Thief @ #teamliquid @ Quakenet
accela
Profile Joined February 2010
Greece314 Posts
March 18 2011 00:11 GMT
#840
oh great another "humanitarian" war

there were plenty of good points in time those past weeks/months for UN to actually make a difference and save hundreds of lives in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya.

now this decision is more like a bad joke and smells kinda like invasion in the long term.
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