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NASA and the Private Sector - Page 132

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Keep debates civil.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 20 2017 04:49 GMT
#2621
Hype!

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 14:17:11
August 23 2017 14:12 GMT
#2622
https://www.instagram.com/p/BYIPmEFAIIn/

Ladies and gentleman, meet the SpaceX spacesuit. Elon Musk just came through with the first pic of the astronaut gear via his Instagram. And, even though it's not a full look at the suit, it offers plenty to pick apart. Like, why is the American flag on the arm the wrong way round? (Although, that could be due to the image being flipped.) Speculation aside, let's start with what we know so far. Musk claims this is not a mockup, meaning it's a real-life, working spacesuit. That's cool, because (by the looks of things) it's all about mobility.

The SpaceX spacesuit's already been tested to double vacuum pressure, according to Musk. And, we're assuming it passed those trials, along with the ocean landing mobility and safety runs. By far its most striking feature is its slim, fitted design. Most contemporary, and even next-gen spacesuits, look bulky and utilitarian. The SpaceX spacesuit, on the other hand, looks a lot lighter. Which makes sense, seeing as it was crafted by a Hollywood costume designer, renowned for making Batman and Wolverine's figure-hugging outfits.

The helmet also seems to offer plenty of visibility, although less so than NASA's future Z-2 suit. Musk claims it was "hard to balance" aesthetic with functionality. For the most part, the design seems to keep things simple. There are minimal grey lines and patches that sit nicely alongside its traditional white coloring. Its closest comparisons in the world of cinema are probably the suits worn in Interstellar, and (appropriately) The Martian.

Musk is keen to milk this unveiling for all it's worth, so expect more shots over the coming days. The suit may eventually be worn by astronauts on NASA's commercial crew program.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9005 Posts
August 23 2017 14:20 GMT
#2623
Now, that suit is clean. I wonder how it hold up to the cold though.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 23 2017 14:28 GMT
#2624
If it's been tested in a double vacuum then probably very, very well.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9005 Posts
August 23 2017 14:37 GMT
#2625
In terms of keeping body heat in and space cold out? I have a limited understanding of how a double vacuum would work in that case.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
August 23 2017 14:43 GMT
#2626
there's no such thing as a "double vacuum..." but being air tight at 2x vacuum pressure differential also has little to do with how a suit "holds up to the cold".

Assuming we are referring to somebody being extra-vehicular in space in this suit: Because there aren't any actual low energy particles floating around in space waiting to steal the heat energy from objects that they interact with, you essentially only lose heat in space by radiation. Radiation heat loss boils down to surface area and a constant called the "emissivity" of the material in question.

So the question is, did they make compromises in the emissivity of the materials used in the name of aesthetics, structural soundness or other concerns? I'd guess not, but I suppose we have no evidence either way.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2654 Posts
August 23 2017 14:52 GMT
#2627
As far as I understand its not a suit for spacewalks and its only supposed to be needed if something goes wrong during operations. Previous suits (and this one?) had umbilical cords for oxygen and power, isolated the wearer for a couple of hours at maximum and had only a few minutes of onboard air. I suspect this one will be similar.

Sleeker suits are good. If we want humans in space on a regular basis a normal work suit that can be worn without impeding the wearer and that can give a few minutes of isolation and oxygen would make working a lot safer.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 15:00:04
August 23 2017 14:55 GMT
#2628
Yeah this isn't a spacewalk suit unless NASA and SpaceX reveal another suit or possibly one that can go over this current version.

edit: Come to think of it is that even possible from an Engineering standpoint to have one suit go over another?
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43250 Posts
August 23 2017 15:02 GMT
#2629
On August 23 2017 23:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Yeah this isn't a spacewalk suit unless NASA and SpaceX reveal another suit or possibly one that can go over this current version.

edit: Come to think of it is that even possible from an Engineering standpoint to have one suit go over another?

Depends how you define suit surely. You can wear a robotic exoskeleton but you can't wear a forklift truck. At some point between the two there is a blurry line.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 23 2017 15:04 GMT
#2630
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
August 23 2017 15:05 GMT
#2631
Figured out what it reminds me of: a motorcyclist suit.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 19:00:47
August 23 2017 18:57 GMT
#2632
I don't think weight would be an issue unless there is lunar landings and so on. So remove the exoskeleton and one would have to design some zipper cocoon type of suit one simply backs into or just slips over. One can imagine at least.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
August 23 2017 22:03 GMT
#2633
LOGAN, Utah — The scheduled Aug. 24 launch of a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket carrying a single 475-kilogram satellite into a 720-kilometer sun-synchronous orbit is a spectacular waste of rocket capacity that casts an unflattering light on the lack of flexibility of the launch-services and small-satellite sectors.

The launch, carrying Taiwan’s Formosat-5 Earth observation satellite, comes at a time when multiple small-satellite owners are waiting months, and even years, for a chance to ride on board as secondary passengers on missions heading to polar low-Earth orbit.

The lost opportunity for the small-satellite sector is mirrored in SpaceX’s likely financial loss for the mission. Taiwan’s National Space Office (NSPO) paid around $23 million for the launch, originally booked in 2010 on a SpaceX Falcon 1e rocket. The launch had been scheduled to occur in 2014 or 2015.

...

The company also did not say whether it had attempted to find a replacement for Spaceflight, or whether Formosat-5 could not have been delayed a few more months to give SpaceX the time to find a new companion payload.

Reports in Taiwan said NSPO, perhaps to put pressure on SpaceX after the long delay, at some point inserted into the contract a provision under which SpaceX would refund 1.25% of the launch price for every month of schedule slippage. It is not clear when the timer on that condition began. NSPO declined to comment on the launch contract’s details.

www.spaceintelreport.com

A quick peek into some of the things that happen when you delay rockets for 3-4 years, in time for tomorrow's launch.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 24 2017 01:48 GMT
#2634
NASA’s Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel (ASAP) still has a number of concerns over crew safety numbers for the Commercial Crew Program (CCP), notably the guideline Loss of Crew (LOC) metric, based on the threat of MicroMeteoroid and Orbital Debris (MMOD) damage and crew recovery from the ocean after an abort. The plan acknowledged both SpaceX and Boeing are actively working to improve their LOC ratings.

The latest meeting of the influential ASAP received “a very detailed and in-depth discussion with Ms. Kathy Lueders, the Commercial Crew Program (CCP) Manager,” who noted the considerable amount of the progress made over recent months with both of NASA’s Commercial Crew partners.

NASA is working with SpaceX and its Dragon 2 spacecraft along with Boeing and its Starliner (CST-100) vehicle to regain American independence for its crew launch capability.

The CCP is currently working on mission planning and preparation for eight crew missions, with SpaceX and Boeing each working on a demo flight to the ISS without a crew, a demo flight to the ISS with a crew and two post-certification missions.

With regard to the official schedule, SpaceX is planning its first demo mission without a crew in February 2018, and the demo mission with a crew in June 2018. Boeing’s uncrewed orbital flight test mission is scheduled for June 2018 and the first crewed test mission in August 2018.

As previously noted with the progress being made on both crew systems, the panel was told the CCP and its partners are now into the “home stretch”, although the panel recognized that these schedules may slip and many challenges remain.

The primary interest of the ASAP is crew safety. They are a traditionally conservative body and were initially cautious over the commercialization of human space flight.

However, traditional elements of NASA have also been a target for their cautious attitude, famously butting heads with the Space Shuttle Program (SSP) when actively protesting against any extension to the Shuttle’s lifetime to cover the growing gap with the then-failing Constellation Program (CxP). Notably, many of the SSP managers who complained about ASAP’s attitude towards their improved safety regime are now embedded as top managers at the commercial crew companies.

The ASAP was presented with the three main “programmatic and safety risks” currently challenging the CCP, noted as the “inability to meet Loss of Crew (LOC) metrics, DoD’s Search and Rescue posture and capability, and the possibility of aborts taking place in sea states that would be unsafe for rescue.”

Ranging back throughout NASA’s history, the dreaded parameter of “LOV and LOC – and the combination of LOV/C” were often cited as a way of portraying the risks involved with human space flight. While LOV (Loss Of Vehicle) relied on abort and crew escape options – something the Space Shuttle lacked in numerous LOV scenarios, LOC (Loss Of Crew) is the metric that sends a shiver down the spines of those tasked with building and launching crew-capable vehicles.

The ASAP was told NASA’s LOC threshold number is 1:150 and LOC requirement is 1:270. In other words, the Agency’s requirement is not to lose more than one crew in every 270 flights.

This is a guideline to work within, as opposed to an expectation they will actually lose one crew within 270 missions, although the LOV/C numbers have gained ridicule over recent years, not least when Ares I managers boldly claimed a 1:1000 LOC number for their system before refining it into the hundreds.

That was acknowledged by another ASAP panel member, who noted “One of the things the Panel has begun to observe and discuss is the considerable statistical distribution between the probabilities that are used in the model. As an example, one of the current calculations uses a value of 1:300 as a calculation for overall risk, but statistically, that number can vary between 1:140 and 1:1200.”

It was also stated at the meeting that “using it as an absolute number to judge system safety is probably a misuse of the LOC estimate.”

Per NASA’s requirement, the ASAP was told that both CCP providers are “showing numbers that are somewhat worse than those targets,” according to the minutes of the meeting. “However, those numbers are being worked, and the Program is identifying potential design changes or workarounds that would improve the situation.”

As expected, the major on orbit threat of MMOD dominates the LOC calculation, with the teams “looking at areas for improvement and are continuing to study operational mitigations that could improve the numbers they have today”, as noted to the ASAP.

MMOD was traditionally classed as the third biggest risk to losing a crew during the Shuttle era, behind launch and re-entry/landing.

The risks associated with launch have been mitigated via the commercial crew vehicle’s abort systems, elements the Shuttle did not include.

Notably, a launch abort for a commercial crew vehicle is a concern due to the environment they would be returning too – namely the ocean. A Shuttle’s primary launch abort site (RTLS – Return To Launch Site) was a runway, namely the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF) – although hundreds of immediate return abort runways around the world were also available had they been required due to a major malfunction on orbit.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9005 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-24 15:43:23
August 24 2017 02:29 GMT
#2635
Does anyone have any space novels they recommend? Either fiction/fantasy will suffice. This is a request on the news of the suits being released.

The Mass Effect books are really good.
To the Stars Trilogy by Harry Harrison is pretty good. Almost Ayn Rand-ish, I suppose. I never read it but from what I've heard others speak of it, it's probably similar.
Saturn Run by John Sandford & Ctein is good as well. Some liberties with science but really enjoyable.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
August 24 2017 02:54 GMT
#2636
I, Robot or the Foundation books from Asimov are nice. Both have important space themes in them.
Some people like the Dune series by Frank Herbert, I personally don't, but they are definitely of sci-fi historical merit.
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is definitely a worthy classic.
War of the Worlds or Time Machine by HG Wells.
Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury.

That should be enough for now.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11930 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-24 05:18:38
August 24 2017 05:18 GMT
#2637
The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe is a good Sci Fi. Through its series it goes through plenty of themes and settings.

The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein might be more fitting with the space suit Sci Fi. Legendary author that takes a lot of liberties with science to tell good stories.

The Left Hand of Darkness is among Le Guin's best work, maybe The Dispossessed can be a contender.

2001: A Space Odyssey by Arthur C. Clarke actually features a lot of what we would consider normal space flight. Clarke always wrote fiction heavily focused on the science part and this is a good book and later movie.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15355 Posts
August 24 2017 07:23 GMT
#2638
On August 24 2017 11:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Does anyone have any space novels they recommend? Either fiction/fantasy will suffice. This is a request on the news of the suits being released.

The Mass Effect books are really good.

After I go through my books, I'll update this.

The Expanse is the most entertaining SciFi I've read in a long time. It even has gravity!!
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 24 2017 17:07 GMT
#2639
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
thePunGun
Profile Blog Joined January 2016
598 Posts
August 24 2017 18:46 GMT
#2640
Stream's live T-5:00 minutes
"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself."
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