On November 25 2010 06:52 jpak wrote: Here's another good one (back in 2003)
A State of Mind (look at related videos for other parts)
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
I know you watched that documentary and saw the smiling kid doing her best to try to preform in front of the great leader.
But what about those kids who don't want to be a gymnast? What about the peasants of dreams to go to school and live a good life?
They have no choice.
Sure you can get all ivory tower and question if free will actually exists. But the stark reality of repression is pretty depressing
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Capitalism = The Poor get screwed over Communism= Everyone but the rich and powerful gets screwed over.
Overall, capitalism benefits far more people. Also, the poor in modern society has a chance for vertical social movement. NK they get a chance to work in the gulags.
North Korea has become such a larger issue than starving children, and torturing people in concentration camps. It's more than the people chained in abandoned warehouses and left to rot. It's more than the human flesh being sold as pork. It's more than the totalitarian regime that only feeds it's army officers and their families. It's more than the tens of thousands of fertile farm land that is used to grow opium and not food. It's more than the 300,000 refugees hiding in china. It's more than the 70,000 North Korean women being trafficked into china and sold as wives to chinese business men.
North Korea is a human rights issue. People have no idea how important the issue truly is until they actually see it for themselves.
There are children and people forced to kill each other in concentration camps. They have children throw rocks at someone tied up until that person bleeds out and dies. They rape women and brutally kill them when they become pregnant. Believe it or not, the guards are not the ones to blame here. If the guards do not go about and do these things, they themselves will be tortures and killed.
North Korea is a huge global issue. If the United States and the European Nations wanted to police the world, this is the place they need to fix, and not the middle eastern, rich oiled nations.
So I will link back to my first post in this thread (which was at the bottom of the page so it should get very little people noticing it)
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
I know you watched that documentary and saw the smiling kid doing her best to try to preform in front of the great leader.
But what about those kids who don't want to be a gymnast? What about the peasants of dreams to go to school and live a good life?
They have no choice.
Sure you can get all ivory tower and question if free will actually exists. But the stark reality of repression is pretty depressing
It wasn't just the smiling kid, it was the other people who were filmed as well. TBH, I payed more attention to what the adults said, and how they acted, more than her.....
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Capitalism = The Poor get screwed over Communism= Everyone but the rich and powerful gets screwed over.
Overall, capitalism benefits far more people. Also, the poor in modern society has a chance for vertical social movement. NK they get a chance to work in the gulags.
There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the country, no doubt. But you can't simply say a system is soley better because "more people don't get screwed over", can you? Because if you go by that logic, Capitalism is fucking terrible compared to Socialism, because nobody gets screwed over. Downside is that the drive for improvements is no longer as dominant, since the monetary issue is pretty much off the table. but, hey, at least nobody gets screwed over, right?
And, yea, people get screwed over in the USA (and in Canada as well), it's just that it's more difficult to see, and it's not as severe. There are still people living on the streets, begging for meals in many cities in Canada.....
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
I know you watched that documentary and saw the smiling kid doing her best to try to preform in front of the great leader.
But what about those kids who don't want to be a gymnast? What about the peasants of dreams to go to school and live a good life?
They have no choice.
Sure you can get all ivory tower and question if free will actually exists. But the stark reality of repression is pretty depressing
It wasn't just the smiling kid, it was the other people who were filmed as well. TBH, I payed more attention to what the adults said, and how they acted, more than her.....
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Capitalism = The Poor get screwed over Communism= Everyone but the rich and powerful gets screwed over.
Overall, capitalism benefits far more people. Also, the poor in modern society has a chance for vertical social movement. NK they get a chance to work in the gulags.
There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the country, no doubt. But you can't simply say a system is soley better because "more people don't get screwed over", can you? Because if you go by that logic, Capitalism is fucking terrible compared to Socialism, because nobody gets screwed over. Downside is that the drive for improvements is no longer as dominant, since the monetary issue is pretty much off the table. but, hey, at least nobody gets screwed over, right?
And, yea, people get screwed over in the USA (and in Canada as well), it's just that it's more difficult to see, and it's not as severe. There are still people living on the streets, begging for meals in many cities in Canada.....
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
I know you watched that documentary and saw the smiling kid doing her best to try to preform in front of the great leader.
But what about those kids who don't want to be a gymnast? What about the peasants of dreams to go to school and live a good life?
They have no choice.
Sure you can get all ivory tower and question if free will actually exists. But the stark reality of repression is pretty depressing
It wasn't just the smiling kid, it was the other people who were filmed as well. TBH, I payed more attention to what the adults said, and how they acted, more than her.....
It shows what that type of society is capable of.
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Capitalism = The Poor get screwed over Communism= Everyone but the rich and powerful gets screwed over.
Overall, capitalism benefits far more people. Also, the poor in modern society has a chance for vertical social movement. NK they get a chance to work in the gulags.
There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the country, no doubt. But you can't simply say a system is soley better because "more people don't get screwed over", can you? Because if you go by that logic, Capitalism is fucking terrible compared to Socialism, because nobody gets screwed over. Downside is that the drive for improvements is no longer as dominant, since the monetary issue is pretty much off the table. but, hey, at least nobody gets screwed over, right?
And, yea, people get screwed over in the USA (and in Canada as well), it's just that it's more difficult to see, and it's not as severe. There are still people living on the streets, begging for meals in many cities in Canada.....
Thanks to people who've contributed other videos and links about North Korea - I didn't know most of those resources were out there, and it's really great that people have the interest to find this stuff out for themselves.
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
I know you watched that documentary and saw the smiling kid doing her best to try to preform in front of the great leader.
But what about those kids who don't want to be a gymnast? What about the peasants of dreams to go to school and live a good life?
They have no choice.
Sure you can get all ivory tower and question if free will actually exists. But the stark reality of repression is pretty depressing
It wasn't just the smiling kid, it was the other people who were filmed as well. TBH, I payed more attention to what the adults said, and how they acted, more than her.....
It shows what that type of society is capable of.
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Capitalism = The Poor get screwed over Communism= Everyone but the rich and powerful gets screwed over.
Overall, capitalism benefits far more people. Also, the poor in modern society has a chance for vertical social movement. NK they get a chance to work in the gulags.
There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the country, no doubt. But you can't simply say a system is soley better because "more people don't get screwed over", can you? Because if you go by that logic, Capitalism is fucking terrible compared to Socialism, because nobody gets screwed over. Downside is that the drive for improvements is no longer as dominant, since the monetary issue is pretty much off the table. but, hey, at least nobody gets screwed over, right?
And, yea, people get screwed over in the USA (and in Canada as well), it's just that it's more difficult to see, and it's not as severe. There are still people living on the streets, begging for meals in many cities in Canada.....
Because I have realized that I'm quite happy and content with where I am and what I have.
Can't you be quiet happy and content also in North Korea?
The government, will decide your decisions for you! You can take pride in working in the Gulags! And also the government will take away all that food you 'really don't need'. I can't see why you wouldn't want to go
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Oh, come the fuck on. You CANNOT be arguing that any part of North Korea's "system" is justifiable in any way, shape or form.
I mean you just clearly have no idea what is going on in that country. Are you comparing mandatory social conscription to your parents putting you on a baseball team when you're 8?
I'm pretty sure TorcH (or someone else talking on VT vent) went to North Korea for the mass games, but I never heard back/if they actually went. Would be interesting to see their view of NK.
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
I know you watched that documentary and saw the smiling kid doing her best to try to preform in front of the great leader.
But what about those kids who don't want to be a gymnast? What about the peasants of dreams to go to school and live a good life?
They have no choice.
Sure you can get all ivory tower and question if free will actually exists. But the stark reality of repression is pretty depressing
It wasn't just the smiling kid, it was the other people who were filmed as well. TBH, I payed more attention to what the adults said, and how they acted, more than her.....
It shows what that type of society is capable of.
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Capitalism = The Poor get screwed over Communism= Everyone but the rich and powerful gets screwed over.
Overall, capitalism benefits far more people. Also, the poor in modern society has a chance for vertical social movement. NK they get a chance to work in the gulags.
There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the country, no doubt. But you can't simply say a system is soley better because "more people don't get screwed over", can you? Because if you go by that logic, Capitalism is fucking terrible compared to Socialism, because nobody gets screwed over. Downside is that the drive for improvements is no longer as dominant, since the monetary issue is pretty much off the table. but, hey, at least nobody gets screwed over, right?
And, yea, people get screwed over in the USA (and in Canada as well), it's just that it's more difficult to see, and it's not as severe. There are still people living on the streets, begging for meals in many cities in Canada.....
Because I have realized that I'm quite happy and content with where I am and what I have.
Can't you be quiet happy and content also in North Korea?
The government, will decide your decisions for you! You can take pride in working in the Gulags! And also the government will take away all that food you 'really don't need'. I can't see why you wouldn't want to go
Socialism is better right?
Did you even watch that TED talk I linked?
Of course, I could drop out of university, book a ticket to China, find my way to the border and somehow get myself into NK and start begging on the streets if I wanted to. But look at the other option - I don't drop out, I get a degree, get a job, and live a decent life.
Do I really have a choice?
It's an illusion of choice. Sure, you can make a choice like "oh, I'll get a pizza instead of a burger", or something similar, but any main, important thing in your life is pretty much an illusion.
Lotta info to get to a big point incoming:
I was born into a household where both of my parents did not have university educations. My mother had taken some college courses, however. Both of my parents, nonetheless, had successful jobs. My mother decided to trade in her job to be a housewife at one point when I was younger. Because of the job she did have, I was exposed to computer systems at an age of 18 months. I've learned how to use computers to a decent level (nothing close to R1CH, he's a fucking god). I was also introduced to videogaming through computers. She also made sure that I was good in school, I was a straight A student (with the exception of any courses in French).
Because my father was a very hands-on person, I learned a lot of stuff from him. He was also a high level chess player, and I used to play him a lot, and after a while, it became less about looking at individual moves, and looking at combinations, then it went to recognizing tempo, then it went to recognizing minute positional advantages, and then it started to become almost instinctual, I was able to simply remember situations and know what the best response was, without thinking about it.
Both of my parents pretty much forced me into extracurricular activities. I was involved in learning the piano at one point, I played soccer, etc. I met some of my best friends through these things.
I was born with a slight problem with my knees. The choices were either surgery (which was not 100% guaranteed to work, and was rather experimental at the time), braces like Forrest Gump had, or taking years of dance/gymnastics/martial arts to strengthen my legs to compensate for the problem. I studied ballet and martial arts for years (martial arts for a much longer period of time, I dropped ballet pretty quickly, probably for social reasons instead of me actually disliking it). My legs have been rediculously strong ever since.
To the main point I'm getting at - Even in high school, when I "wanted" to play on the football team, there were so many factors going into it (several friends on the team, relatively good shape for my size, peer pressure, discipline and leg strength from martial arts, leg strength from ballet, strategy love from the years of chess, my years of studying hard allowing me to have a relatively easy time in high school which gave me free time for it, years of playing videogames allowing me to know how to get into "the zone" and focus completely at the task at hand, etc). Ultimately, I can't look back at it and simply think that it was merely my "choice", more like a logical culmination of many different events in my past led to that outcome. And I enjoyed it immensely, even though it really was an illusion of choice for me.
My parents always worked hard at making sure I would be able to do better for myself than they were able to do for themselves. Going to a post-secondary education was definitely the result of that hard work. My parents (and many people I knew) figured I would go into engineering by the time I was 4 years old. Initially, they thought I'd be better in mechanical or robotics engineering because I used to always be good at building and programming robots and stuff, but I'm in Civil. There are even reasons for this (I worked for a construction company doing roadwork for a summer and was amazed at how quickly that stuff could be done, I worked for a landscaper for a summer and was fascinated by what he was able to do, I have family in the industry, I've always been around people who are good at doing renovations, in grade 2 I built a bridge as a school project that could hold my weight, etc).
Even in University, my choice for being a frosh guide this year wasn't simply just me deciding to sign up without any influence on the reason - I've got several friends who are involved in our student society and plans the week (including a good friend of mine being the person who pretty much organized the week), I have these big-brother type instincts (thanks to having 3 much younger siblings, which I had to help raise when my dad passed away), memories of how awesome my frosh week was and obviously wanting to repeat it, etc.....
I've realized for a long time that I am the sum of all my previous experiences - they shape who I am and who I will become. I'm totally fine with that. To me, the "free choice" people seem to love is just an illusion.
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Oh, come the fuck on. You CANNOT be arguing that any part of North Korea's "system" is justifiable in any way, shape or form.
Was invading Iraq over "WMDs" justifiable?
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter..... Of course we don't like their system, and they don't like ours..... How can you determine which system is truly better?
It would put people in positions where they can be successful.
Ah, like 'on the ground with 9mm of lead in the skull'?
Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well
"Too poor to afford anything but fattening McDonalds" is qualitatively different than "2.8 million people starving to death in 3 years", would you agree?
How can you determine which system is truly better?
The same way you object when someone steals your bike...
It would put people in positions where they can be successful.
Ah, like 'on the ground with 9mm of lead in the skull'?
Communism is a lot like an ant colony.
If an ant is weak, or dying, it's shunned from the colony (and often will walk away to its fate). Also, if there are too many eggs, or not enough food, it will force some to starve, for the good of the colony as a whole..... In those cases, the ants are better off dead, for the good of the whole.
If the same principle is applied to communism, well, you get that result..... I find it fucking terrible as well.....
Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well
"Too poor to afford anything but fattening McDonalds" is qualitatively different than "2.8 million people starving to death in 3 years", would you agree?
The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that in 2008 * Of the 49.1 million people living in food insecure households (up from 36.2 million in 2007), 32.4 million are adults (14.4 percent of all adults) and 16.7 million are children (22.5 percent of all children). * 17.3 million people lived in households that were considered to have "very low food security," a USDA term (previously denominated "food insecure with hunger") that means one or more people in the household were hungry over the course of the year because of the inability to afford enough food. This was up from 11.9 million in 2007 and 8.5 million in 2000. * Very low food security had been getting worse even before the recession. The number of people in this category in 2008 is more than double the number in 2000. * Black (25.7 percent) and Hispanic (26.9 percent) households experienced food insecurity at far higher rates than the national average.
While it is definitely measured to look more drastic in the USA than it would be in NK or Africa, there is still a problem that the country should not have.....
How can you determine which system is truly better?
The same way you object when someone steals your bike...
You get money taken from you by the government in the form of taxes, right? How is that any different than the government taking your bike for "government purposes" instead?
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
I know you watched that documentary and saw the smiling kid doing her best to try to preform in front of the great leader.
But what about those kids who don't want to be a gymnast? What about the peasants of dreams to go to school and live a good life?
They have no choice.
Sure you can get all ivory tower and question if free will actually exists. But the stark reality of repression is pretty depressing
It wasn't just the smiling kid, it was the other people who were filmed as well. TBH, I payed more attention to what the adults said, and how they acted, more than her.....
It shows what that type of society is capable of.
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Capitalism = The Poor get screwed over Communism= Everyone but the rich and powerful gets screwed over.
Overall, capitalism benefits far more people. Also, the poor in modern society has a chance for vertical social movement. NK they get a chance to work in the gulags.
There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the country, no doubt. But you can't simply say a system is soley better because "more people don't get screwed over", can you? Because if you go by that logic, Capitalism is fucking terrible compared to Socialism, because nobody gets screwed over. Downside is that the drive for improvements is no longer as dominant, since the monetary issue is pretty much off the table. but, hey, at least nobody gets screwed over, right?
And, yea, people get screwed over in the USA (and in Canada as well), it's just that it's more difficult to see, and it's not as severe. There are still people living on the streets, begging for meals in many cities in Canada.....
Because I have realized that I'm quite happy and content with where I am and what I have.
Can't you be quiet happy and content also in North Korea?
The government, will decide your decisions for you! You can take pride in working in the Gulags! And also the government will take away all that food you 'really don't need'. I can't see why you wouldn't want to go
Socialism is better right?
Did you even watch that TED talk I linked?
Of course, I could drop out of university, book a ticket to China, find my way to the border and somehow get myself into NK and start begging on the streets if I wanted to. But look at the other option - I don't drop out, I get a degree, get a job, and live a decent life.
Do I really have a choice?
It's an illusion of choice. Sure, you can make a choice like "oh, I'll get a pizza instead of a burger", or something similar, but any main, important thing in your life is pretty much an illusion.
Lotta info to get to a big point incoming:
I was born into a household where both of my parents did not have university educations. My mother had taken some college courses, however. Both of my parents, nonetheless, had successful jobs. My mother decided to trade in her job to be a housewife at one point when I was younger. Because of the job she did have, I was exposed to computer systems at an age of 18 months. I've learned how to use computers to a decent level (nothing close to R1CH, he's a fucking god). I was also introduced to videogaming through computers. She also made sure that I was good in school, I was a straight A student (with the exception of any courses in French).
Because my father was a very hands-on person, I learned a lot of stuff from him. He was also a high level chess player, and I used to play him a lot, and after a while, it became less about looking at individual moves, and looking at combinations, then it went to recognizing tempo, then it went to recognizing minute positional advantages, and then it started to become almost instinctual, I was able to simply remember situations and know what the best response was, without thinking about it.
Both of my parents pretty much forced me into extracurricular activities. I was involved in learning the piano at one point, I played soccer, etc. I met some of my best friends through these things.
I was born with a slight problem with my knees. The choices were either surgery (which was not 100% guaranteed to work, and was rather experimental at the time), braces like Forrest Gump had, or taking years of dance/gymnastics/martial arts to strengthen my legs to compensate for the problem. I studied ballet and martial arts for years (martial arts for a much longer period of time, I dropped ballet pretty quickly, probably for social reasons instead of me actually disliking it). My legs have been rediculously strong ever since.
To the main point I'm getting at - Even in high school, when I "wanted" to play on the football team, there were so many factors going into it (several friends on the team, relatively good shape for my size, peer pressure, discipline and leg strength from martial arts, leg strength from ballet, strategy love from the years of chess, my years of studying hard allowing me to have a relatively easy time in high school which gave me free time for it, years of playing videogames allowing me to know how to get into "the zone" and focus completely at the task at hand, etc). Ultimately, I can't look back at it and simply think that it was merely my "choice", more like a logical culmination of many different events in my past led to that outcome. And I enjoyed it immensely, even though it really was an illusion of choice for me.
My parents always worked hard at making sure I would be able to do better for myself than they were able to do for themselves. Going to a post-secondary education was definitely the result of that hard work. My parents (and many people I knew) figured I would go into engineering by the time I was 4 years old. Initially, they thought I'd be better in mechanical or robotics engineering because I used to always be good at building and programming robots and stuff, but I'm in Civil. There are even reasons for this (I worked for a construction company doing roadwork for a summer and was amazed at how quickly that stuff could be done, I worked for a landscaper for a summer and was fascinated by what he was able to do, I have family in the industry, I've always been around people who are good at doing renovations, in grade 2 I built a bridge as a school project that could hold my weight, etc).
Even in University, my choice for being a frosh guide this year wasn't simply just me deciding to sign up without any influence on the reason - I've got several friends who are involved in our student society and plans the week (including a good friend of mine being the person who pretty much organized the week), I have these big-brother type instincts (thanks to having 3 much younger siblings, which I had to help raise when my dad passed away), memories of how awesome my frosh week was and obviously wanting to repeat it, etc.....
I've realized for a long time that I am the sum of all my previous experiences - they shape who I am and who I will become. I'm totally fine with that. To me, the "free choice" people seem to love is just an illusion.
*claps* I personally love this response. I have always been a believer that "choice" is an illusion and nothing more.
On November 25 2010 09:44 Impervious wrote: There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
I like it. To be fair, their transgressions are far more egregious, even if the documentary about the hand-picked gymnasts doesn't seem to suggest it. But it's that unfettered reasonableness that allows you Canadians to move freely into NK. (I know a couple that visits regularly as NGO workers).
Anyway, I can look at inner-city life in the states and tell you we don't have everything worked out ourselves. I always thought this would be a cool way to approach human-rights issues with China. We could reach an agreement where we set a target to improve conditions for a certain neglected segment of our population and China does the same. Perhaps we could even collaborate to find answers to our problems. Instead of condemning them, we could partner up and each take responsibility for our own problems. It would be great PR and great for people..
it is a documentary about 2 NK girls preparing for the Arirang Mass Games. It's very revealing and, if u can see through the facade that the state is trying to present, very frightening.
I just finished watching it, and took a few minutes to gather my thoughts, before replying to this.
What I saw was that they seemed generally happy, or at least content, with their lives, even in conditions that people in other countries would never dream of living through willingly. They work hard as a group to accomplish things that an individual could never achieve. They take pride in the things they do. They are also disciplined, while still being able to retain individuality (something that a lot of people seem to fear about communism). Their system seems to be very efficient (however, the excess production they generate goes to things they really, really don't need, instead of going towards increasing production capabilities further to grow at an exponential rate rather than stagnate). For the most part, these seem to be things that other societies could actually learn from, rather than shun them from fear of communism.....
I don't see a problem with their system (not that I prefer it over democracy, however). There are definitely several faults with the country, however. They have a leader that is more concerned with preserving his interests than bettering the individual and becoming more powerful as a group. Their devotion is centered around a hatred of the US (which is reasonable, since they were on the recieving end of US tech during their attempt at reunifying the country, and the leaders capitalized on that to unify the people's resolve in the tough times that followed). Everyone being cutoff from information from the rest of the world also hurts, since they will never know what is going on internationally, nor what has happened since the war, unless the leaders let them know about it (do they even know that the US put men on the moon, as an example of what I mean). While limiting public information is definitely a useful thing in some cases (lets face it, not many people are in the need to know about many things that happen, for security and safety reasons), NK seems to have taken it far too far. Being self-sufficient is definitely a desireable quality that any country should strive for, however, every country (for geographical, social, or other reasons) is better at some things than other, and trade between countries can help both involved, and being in a situation where there is next to no outside contact or trade definitely hurts the country. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement of NK. Then again, the same can be said for every country on earth, don't forget that.
It's not an ignorance is bliss issue. Although it's easy to romanticize someone's life. Remember, they have no autonomy at all.
If the government decides it wants you to do gymnastics, you do gymnastics. There's no such thing as "the first amendment" in authoritative governments. Freedom is unknown.
Btw, starving your citizens is not the same as self-sufficiency.
Are you truly free? Or has societal influences shaped your path so far? Really, really think hard about this.
When you were younger, what did you do? Were you on any sports teams? What were your extracurricular activities? What were your hobbies? How good were your grades? Did you always do your homework? Did you discover any particular strengths and talents you had when you were younger?
Did these somehow shape where you went later on in your life? If some of those things were different, would you be where you are now?
Their type of system seems to take it one step further, that's all. They figure out which path you should be in (they described it as "peasant", "worker", and "intellectual"). From there, they probably figure out some particular strand you should be in, based on your strengths/weaknesses and talents, and this keeps going until they find something useful in society for you to do, regardless of what your strengths/weakness or skills are. It would put people in positions where they can be successful. And when you've been successful at something, you take pride in it. They may not have the same "freedom" that you have, but if they're happy, does it actually matter?
I know you watched that documentary and saw the smiling kid doing her best to try to preform in front of the great leader.
But what about those kids who don't want to be a gymnast? What about the peasants of dreams to go to school and live a good life?
They have no choice.
Sure you can get all ivory tower and question if free will actually exists. But the stark reality of repression is pretty depressing
It wasn't just the smiling kid, it was the other people who were filmed as well. TBH, I payed more attention to what the adults said, and how they acted, more than her.....
It shows what that type of society is capable of.
Of course, starving your population is not a good practice..... I did say that there are some problems with the country (and that's a pretty big one). Then again, there's people living in poverty in "western" countries as well..... Pointing out one fault in a system doesn't help, when other systems that you'd like to think are "better" still have that problem.....
Capitalism = The Poor get screwed over Communism= Everyone but the rich and powerful gets screwed over.
Overall, capitalism benefits far more people. Also, the poor in modern society has a chance for vertical social movement. NK they get a chance to work in the gulags.
There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the country, no doubt. But you can't simply say a system is soley better because "more people don't get screwed over", can you? Because if you go by that logic, Capitalism is fucking terrible compared to Socialism, because nobody gets screwed over. Downside is that the drive for improvements is no longer as dominant, since the monetary issue is pretty much off the table. but, hey, at least nobody gets screwed over, right?
And, yea, people get screwed over in the USA (and in Canada as well), it's just that it's more difficult to see, and it's not as severe. There are still people living on the streets, begging for meals in many cities in Canada.....
Because I have realized that I'm quite happy and content with where I am and what I have.
Can't you be quiet happy and content also in North Korea?
The government, will decide your decisions for you! You can take pride in working in the Gulags! And also the government will take away all that food you 'really don't need'. I can't see why you wouldn't want to go
Socialism is better right?
Did you even watch that TED talk I linked?
Of course, I could drop out of university, book a ticket to China, find my way to the border and somehow get myself into NK and start begging on the streets if I wanted to. But look at the other option - I don't drop out, I get a degree, get a job, and live a decent life.
Do I really have a choice?
It's an illusion of choice. Sure, you can make a choice like "oh, I'll get a pizza instead of a burger", or something similar, but any main, important thing in your life is pretty much an illusion.
Lotta info to get to a big point incoming:
I was born into a household where both of my parents did not have university educations. My mother had taken some college courses, however. Both of my parents, nonetheless, had successful jobs. My mother decided to trade in her job to be a housewife at one point when I was younger. Because of the job she did have, I was exposed to computer systems at an age of 18 months. I've learned how to use computers to a decent level (nothing close to R1CH, he's a fucking god). I was also introduced to videogaming through computers. She also made sure that I was good in school, I was a straight A student (with the exception of any courses in French).
Because my father was a very hands-on person, I learned a lot of stuff from him. He was also a high level chess player, and I used to play him a lot, and after a while, it became less about looking at individual moves, and looking at combinations, then it went to recognizing tempo, then it went to recognizing minute positional advantages, and then it started to become almost instinctual, I was able to simply remember situations and know what the best response was, without thinking about it.
Both of my parents pretty much forced me into extracurricular activities. I was involved in learning the piano at one point, I played soccer, etc. I met some of my best friends through these things.
I was born with a slight problem with my knees. The choices were either surgery (which was not 100% guaranteed to work, and was rather experimental at the time), braces like Forrest Gump had, or taking years of dance/gymnastics/martial arts to strengthen my legs to compensate for the problem. I studied ballet and martial arts for years (martial arts for a much longer period of time, I dropped ballet pretty quickly, probably for social reasons instead of me actually disliking it). My legs have been rediculously strong ever since.
To the main point I'm getting at - Even in high school, when I "wanted" to play on the football team, there were so many factors going into it (several friends on the team, relatively good shape for my size, peer pressure, discipline and leg strength from martial arts, leg strength from ballet, strategy love from the years of chess, my years of studying hard allowing me to have a relatively easy time in high school which gave me free time for it, years of playing videogames allowing me to know how to get into "the zone" and focus completely at the task at hand, etc). Ultimately, I can't look back at it and simply think that it was merely my "choice", more like a logical culmination of many different events in my past led to that outcome. And I enjoyed it immensely, even though it really was an illusion of choice for me.
My parents always worked hard at making sure I would be able to do better for myself than they were able to do for themselves. Going to a post-secondary education was definitely the result of that hard work. My parents (and many people I knew) figured I would go into engineering by the time I was 4 years old. Initially, they thought I'd be better in mechanical or robotics engineering because I used to always be good at building and programming robots and stuff, but I'm in Civil. There are even reasons for this (I worked for a construction company doing roadwork for a summer and was amazed at how quickly that stuff could be done, I worked for a landscaper for a summer and was fascinated by what he was able to do, I have family in the industry, I've always been around people who are good at doing renovations, in grade 2 I built a bridge as a school project that could hold my weight, etc).
Even in University, my choice for being a frosh guide this year wasn't simply just me deciding to sign up without any influence on the reason - I've got several friends who are involved in our student society and plans the week (including a good friend of mine being the person who pretty much organized the week), I have these big-brother type instincts (thanks to having 3 much younger siblings, which I had to help raise when my dad passed away), memories of how awesome my frosh week was and obviously wanting to repeat it, etc.....
I've realized for a long time that I am the sum of all my previous experiences - they shape who I am and who I will become. I'm totally fine with that. To me, the "free choice" people seem to love is just an illusion.
Yeah, you totally have it as bad as the North Koreans, no choice whatsoever in your extra-curricular activities or fraternity.
EPT
