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On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:
I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is basically equivalent to sound card for almost all uses now. There was also one guy who tested his Samsung phone against a high end DAC and found it quantitatively BETTER in every test including freq response, noise level, etc etc.
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On February 20 2011 04:41 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 13:51 writer22816 wrote:On February 19 2011 12:42 Myrmidon wrote:On February 19 2011 09:04 writer22816 wrote:
What would be a good $200 max closed unamped headphone for classical music and gaming? Source includes Sansa Clip+ and FLAC music files, as well as my laptop's onboard sound (Realtek ALC662).
I realize that closed headphones won't sound as good as open ones but I may need the isolation. Thanks! Actually, with the dynamic range most classical music recordings have (sometimes local peaks at some -40 dB or so below the max possible output), I'd say the AKG K271 may well not be loud enough out of a portable source. The K271 are only 91 dB / mW, 55 ohms, so that's considerably quieter than many alternatives. Maybe you should look at the Audio-Technica ATH-A900, or maybe the A700 if the A900 is out of the price range where you're buying. I'm considering the ATH-M50S at the moment. How does it compare to A900 or A700? There are quite a few ATH-M50 users in this thread (but not me), so hopefully someone can chime in. I think the ATH-M50 S just indicates the straight cable version, as opposed to the coiled cable version. But the M50 is supposed to be much less suited to classical music than the A700 or A900, mostly because of the somewhat overemphasized bass, recessed mids, certain colorations, etc. The bass punchiness of the M50 is much better for other genres of music, for sure. The Ax00 are bulkier and less durable, and they have those nifty wing pads on your head that some people like and others don't (I like it). The M50 is smaller and can fold up. On a side note, I tried to resist the urge to say this, but + Show Spoiler +I know what people mean when they say "unamped" in a headphones context. It's therefore a very concise, mostly unambiguous description. But it still bugs me a lot. -_-;;
What about the Shure SRH840 or 440? SRH840 seems to look pretty good, it's just in my budget and can be easily driven.
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On February 20 2011 08:46 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:
I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is basically equivalent to sound card for almost all uses now. There was also one guy who tested his Samsung phone against a high end DAC and found it quantitatively BETTER in every test including freq response, noise level, etc etc.
what do you call a "high end DAC"?
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On February 20 2011 08:57 Fyodor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 08:46 politik wrote:On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:
I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is basically equivalent to sound card for almost all uses now. There was also one guy who tested his Samsung phone against a high end DAC and found it quantitatively BETTER in every test including freq response, noise level, etc etc. what do you call a "high end DAC"?
NFB12 I think. Ok maybe not extremely high end, but not a cheap one by any means.
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On February 20 2011 09:06 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 08:57 Fyodor wrote:On February 20 2011 08:46 politik wrote:On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:
I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is basically equivalent to sound card for almost all uses now. There was also one guy who tested his Samsung phone against a high end DAC and found it quantitatively BETTER in every test including freq response, noise level, etc etc. what do you call a "high end DAC"? NFB12 I think. Ok maybe not extremely high end, but not a cheap one by any means.
it's $200, part of dac/amp combo. That's entry-level dude.
It starts to get serious with the DAC19 when speaking audio-gd.
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On February 20 2011 08:46 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:
I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is basically equivalent to sound card for almost all uses now. There was also one guy who tested his Samsung phone against a high end DAC and found it quantitatively BETTER in every test including freq response, noise level, etc etc.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is still not equivalent to a decent sound card for all uses now.
There was also one guy who did something and claimed it was awesome but I have no sources to back up anything I just said.
Also, do you know what "quantitatively" means?
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 09:04 writer22816 wrote:
What would be a good $200 max closed unamped headphone for classical music and gaming? Source includes Sansa Clip+ and FLAC music files, as well as my laptop's onboard sound (Realtek ALC662).
I realize that closed headphones won't sound as good as open ones but I may need the isolation. Thanks! I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
I have a uDAC2 and I think it sucks. It's better than onboard, but it's not that great. from 7-12 on the volume knob, there is channel imbalance. From 12-3, it suffers from interference, it's very obvious if you put your hand on the uDAC2. From 3-5, white noise gets louder and louder.
I honestly think the sound from my Galaxy S with Voodoo sound sounds better than the sound from the uDAC2.
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On February 20 2011 08:46 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:
I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is basically equivalent to sound card for almost all uses now. There was also one guy who tested his Samsung phone against a high end DAC and found it quantitatively BETTER in every test including freq response, noise level, etc etc.
Need sources for this. Eitherway, this is a pretty bad comparison considering you're comparing two devices that were made to run differently.
Its like comparing a car to a boat
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On February 20 2011 12:09 Fyodor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 09:06 politik wrote:On February 20 2011 08:57 Fyodor wrote:On February 20 2011 08:46 politik wrote:On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:
I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is basically equivalent to sound card for almost all uses now. There was also one guy who tested his Samsung phone against a high end DAC and found it quantitatively BETTER in every test including freq response, noise level, etc etc. what do you call a "high end DAC"? NFB12 I think. Ok maybe not extremely high end, but not a cheap one by any means. it's $200, part of dac/amp combo. That's entry-level dude. It starts to get serious with the DAC19 when speaking audio-gd.
Well, more cost, more complex design, or more components doesn't necessarily mean better. Also, there's a certain point where you definitely can't A/B things and tell the difference between them, so something can be better in some sense but be practically no different.
I think the tests in question may be this. Everyone looking for a link, see here:
http://dl.project-voodoo.org/RMAA/reports/nfb-12-galaxys-voodoosound-load-hd650.htm
If it's just RMAA, it's maybe inconclusive because it doesn't do any kind of transient response, phase response, etc. But the performance of some "ordinary" sources may be a lot better than you expect, compared to many boutique items. In those cases, I wouldn't call the onboard or integrated solutions good--I'd say the boutique items are insanely overpriced.
That said, there are a lot of amplifiers that may be not that well suited to many loads. The above also is just a test at a line-in signal level--I think about 1V rms in this case. Some sources and/or headphones behave differently (in a nonlinear sense) at lower or higher signal levels.
edit: I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that onboard audio is as good as there is though. Of course it depends on the chip in question and any interference (a somewhat common problem in practice). The primary limiting factor in onboard audio is the amp section.
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I have some ATH-ES7's, but I really want some DT990's ): and a good amp of course.
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I have some Grado SR-60s. Not the greatest comfort-wise but you can't beat them for the relatively cheap price.
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HD 448s, gotta use them on the go alot and they have pretty good sound :D
what would you guys recommend as a step up from that?
i don't mind getting an amp, but hopefully the whole deal wont cost more than 500ish
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Of course onboard sound isn't perfect, but people going around recommending to buy a $100 card for a $200 pair of headphones is just bad. That's money you could spend on better headphones or an amp, or maybe McDonalds, monster HDMI cables, etc.
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On February 20 2011 12:31 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:On February 19 2011 09:04 writer22816 wrote:
What would be a good $200 max closed unamped headphone for classical music and gaming? Source includes Sansa Clip+ and FLAC music files, as well as my laptop's onboard sound (Realtek ALC662).
I realize that closed headphones won't sound as good as open ones but I may need the isolation. Thanks! I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music. I have a uDAC2 and I think it sucks. It's better than onboard, but it's not that great. from 7-12 on the volume knob, there is channel imbalance. From 12-3, it suffers from interference, it's very obvious if you put your hand on the uDAC2. From 3-5, white noise gets louder and louder. I honestly think the sound from my Galaxy S with Voodoo sound sounds better than the sound from the uDAC2.
Either it's broken, or your headphones are terrible. I get channel imbalance from 7-8, then perfection the rest of the way through. I don't know how you can listen to your headphones at 12; anything beyond 10 is too loud.
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I just sold my Sennheiser Orpheus HE90 electrostatic headphones (If any of you are active on Head-Fi, my username is El_Doug). It was the saddest day of my life, however my wife is pursuing a rather expensive master's degree :D Along with it went my Woo WES and SACD player.
I am still rocking out on some Audeze LCD-2s, powered by a Gilmore Lite headphone amplifier, driven by a Lavry DA11 DAC. Honestly, I like this $3k setup better than the aforementioned $17k setup.
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On February 20 2011 08:50 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 04:41 Myrmidon wrote:On February 19 2011 13:51 writer22816 wrote:On February 19 2011 12:42 Myrmidon wrote:On February 19 2011 09:04 writer22816 wrote:
What would be a good $200 max closed unamped headphone for classical music and gaming? Source includes Sansa Clip+ and FLAC music files, as well as my laptop's onboard sound (Realtek ALC662).
I realize that closed headphones won't sound as good as open ones but I may need the isolation. Thanks! Actually, with the dynamic range most classical music recordings have (sometimes local peaks at some -40 dB or so below the max possible output), I'd say the AKG K271 may well not be loud enough out of a portable source. The K271 are only 91 dB / mW, 55 ohms, so that's considerably quieter than many alternatives. Maybe you should look at the Audio-Technica ATH-A900, or maybe the A700 if the A900 is out of the price range where you're buying. I'm considering the ATH-M50S at the moment. How does it compare to A900 or A700? There are quite a few ATH-M50 users in this thread (but not me), so hopefully someone can chime in. I think the ATH-M50 S just indicates the straight cable version, as opposed to the coiled cable version. But the M50 is supposed to be much less suited to classical music than the A700 or A900, mostly because of the somewhat overemphasized bass, recessed mids, certain colorations, etc. The bass punchiness of the M50 is much better for other genres of music, for sure. The Ax00 are bulkier and less durable, and they have those nifty wing pads on your head that some people like and others don't (I like it). The M50 is smaller and can fold up. On a side note, I tried to resist the urge to say this, but + Show Spoiler +I know what people mean when they say "unamped" in a headphones context. It's therefore a very concise, mostly unambiguous description. But it still bugs me a lot. -_-;; What about the Shure SRH840 or 440? SRH840 seems to look pretty good, it's just in my budget and can be easily driven.
I got the 440s last week. I'm very happy about them so far but some people complain their sound is very neutral/flat out of the box. That neutrality doesn't bother and I use them through an amp so I can color them to my taste if needed but if you're looking for something with a strong coloration, you probably should keep on looking.
Regarding the 840s they're supposed to sound superb when amped, but a waste of money if you're gonna use them with portable devices - in which case the 440s are ppbly better bang for the buck
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 20 2011 13:29 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 12:31 T.O.P. wrote:On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:On February 19 2011 09:04 writer22816 wrote:
What would be a good $200 max closed unamped headphone for classical music and gaming? Source includes Sansa Clip+ and FLAC music files, as well as my laptop's onboard sound (Realtek ALC662).
I realize that closed headphones won't sound as good as open ones but I may need the isolation. Thanks! I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music. I have a uDAC2 and I think it sucks. It's better than onboard, but it's not that great. from 7-12 on the volume knob, there is channel imbalance. From 12-3, it suffers from interference, it's very obvious if you put your hand on the uDAC2. From 3-5, white noise gets louder and louder. I honestly think the sound from my Galaxy S with Voodoo sound sounds better than the sound from the uDAC2. Either it's broken, or your headphones are terrible. I get channel imbalance from 7-8, then perfection the rest of the way through. I don't know how you can listen to your headphones at 12; anything beyond 10 is too loud.
Triple.fi.10 is not bad. You can change the volume in windows you know?
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On February 20 2011 16:24 CaptTerrific wrote:
I just sold my Sennheiser Orpheus HE90 electrostatic headphones (If any of you are active on Head-Fi, my username is El_Doug). It was the saddest day of my life, however my wife is pursuing a rather expensive master's degree :D Along with it went my Woo WES and SACD player.
I am still rocking out on some Audeze LCD-2s, powered by a Gilmore Lite headphone amplifier, driven by a Lavry DA11 DAC. Honestly, I like this $3k setup better than the aforementioned $17k setup.
That's what I'm talking about!
I wish I could have time with serious gear like that. Not at some noisy meet or a quick listen though.
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On February 20 2011 13:04 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 12:09 Fyodor wrote:On February 20 2011 09:06 politik wrote:On February 20 2011 08:57 Fyodor wrote:On February 20 2011 08:46 politik wrote:On February 19 2011 10:19 GeorgeArmani wrote:
I would recommend getting a dedicated USB sound card, like a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro for surround (if you want surround), or a NuForce uDAC (what I have) for stereo sound. Use that to power your sound with whatever headphones you like. I have a set of AKG k701 (a bit more expensive than what you're looking for), but they sound absolutely AMAZING with classical music.
Ya this is bullshit, recent onboard audio is basically equivalent to sound card for almost all uses now. There was also one guy who tested his Samsung phone against a high end DAC and found it quantitatively BETTER in every test including freq response, noise level, etc etc. what do you call a "high end DAC"? NFB12 I think. Ok maybe not extremely high end, but not a cheap one by any means. it's $200, part of dac/amp combo. That's entry-level dude. It starts to get serious with the DAC19 when speaking audio-gd. Well, more cost, more complex design, or more components doesn't necessarily mean better. Also, there's a certain point where you definitely can't A/B things and tell the difference between them, so something can be better in some sense but be practically no different. I think the tests in question may be this. Everyone looking for a link, see here: http://dl.project-voodoo.org/RMAA/reports/nfb-12-galaxys-voodoosound-load-hd650.htmIf it's just RMAA, it's maybe inconclusive because it doesn't do any kind of transient response, phase response, etc. But the performance of some "ordinary" sources may be a lot better than you expect, compared to many boutique items. In those cases, I wouldn't call the onboard or integrated solutions good--I'd say the boutique items are insanely overpriced. That said, there are a lot of amplifiers that may be not that well suited to many loads. The above also is just a test at a line-in signal level--I think about 1V rms in this case. Some sources and/or headphones behave differently (in a nonlinear sense) at lower or higher signal levels. edit: I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that onboard audio is as good as there is though. Of course it depends on the chip in question and any interference (a somewhat common problem in practice). The primary limiting factor in onboard audio is the amp section.
The audio GD dac in that comparison isn't boutique by any means though. The beautiful irony is that the galaxy S and the NFB-12 essentially have the same DAC chip from wolfson. With the difference being that one is binned for low power and has a headphone driver.
The reference series uses PCM1704uk chips instead of standard sigma-delta DAC chips. These are the chips you need to be looking at when you try to discredit "high-end" dacs. Similarly, you need a spectacular implementation if you don't want to lose the advantage you get from the chips. Other than the PCM1704uk, there's lavry that makes their own multibit DACs.
In all, we can surmise that the Galaxy S gets decent DAC performance from their wolfson chip and that you need to spend more than 200 on a DAC/amp combo to start talking about high end DACs.
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Hi! I want to buy a headphone, but I can not decide.
SteelSeries Siberia v2
or
Sennheiser HD555(used)
The headphone should be music and game for long time.
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EPT
